NPR

TB63 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:41 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:21 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:11 am If it’s been “lying dormant” rather than jumping from bats in Wuhan, then where has it been, if not in our bodies? Where are they suggesting it’s been lurking?

Wake up man! It's been living harmlessly in all our bodies for almost a decade until 5G!

Don't forget it's also being spread by chemtrails..

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:47 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:53 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:45 am

Scotland Average less than one death and less than ten cases per day over the last week. For whatever reason England hasn’t Suppressed it to the same extent.

Are we really comparing two nations with less than 5 mil people and huge swathes of emptiness each vs the UK?

Well, e.g. the Northwest and northeast of England are very comparable. Significant rural areas but most of the population concentrated in one area. Also, cities like Glasgow and Edinburgh have directly comparable cities in England. So there are comparisons to be made. As I’ve said before, this is about comparing differences and likenesses, so just saying ‘wha, there’s no comparison’ is equally invalid.

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:34 pm
Without going into the in's and out's of comparisons across the 4 UK nations it really is sad how we have become immune to the number of excess or Covid related deaths across the UK. We now 'celebrate' when the deaths fall below an average of 100 per day as they did last week. It almost seems this has become an acceptable price to pay as long as we can open the pubs and go to Ikea.Its even difficult now to find any info on the numbers of cases and deaths , doesn't even appear on front page of BBC website!

Throughout the pandemic, a notion has persevered that people who have “mild” cases of Covid-19 and do not require an ICU stay or the use of a ventilator are spared from serious health repercussions. Just last week, Mike Pence, the US vice-president, claimed it’s “a good thing” that nearly half of the new Covid-19 cases surging in 16 states are young Americans, who are at less risk of becoming severely ill than their older counterparts. This kind of rhetoric would lead you to believe that the ordeal of “mildly infected” patients ends within two weeks of becoming ill, at which point they recover and everything goes back to normal.
While that may be the case for some people who get Covid-19, emerging medical research as well as anecdotal evidence from recovery support groups suggest that many survivors of “mild” Covid-19 are not so lucky. They experience lasting side-effects, and doctors are still trying to understand the ramifications.

Some of these side effects can be fatal. According to Dr Christopher Kellner, a professor of neurosurgery at Mount Sinai hospital in New York, “mild” cases of Covid-19 in which the patient was not hospitalized for the virus have been linked to blood clotting and severe strokes in people as young as 30. In May, Kellner told Healthline that Mount Sinai had implemented a plan to give anticoagulant drugs to people with Covid-19 to prevent the strokes they were seeing in “younger patients with no or mild symptoms”.
Doctors now know that Covid-19 not only affects the lungs and blood, but kidneys, liver and brain – the last potentially resulting in chronic fatigue and depression, among other symptoms. Although the virus is not yet old enough for long-term effects on those organs to be well understood, they may manifest regardless of whether a patient ever required hospitalization, hindering their recovery process.

Another troubling phenomenon now coming into focus is that of “long-haul” Covid-19 sufferers – people whose experience of the illness has lasted months. For a Dutch report published earlier this month (an excerpt is translated here) researchers surveyed 1,622 Covid-19 patients with an average age of 53, who reported a number of enduring symptoms, including intense fatigue (88%) persistent shortness of breath (75%) and chest pressure (45%). Ninety-one per cent of the patients weren’t hospitalized, suggesting they suffered these side-effects despite their cases of Covid-19 qualifying as “mild”. While 85% of the surveyed patients considered themselves generally healthy before having Covid-19, only 6% still did so one month or more after getting the virus.

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:34 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:47 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:53 pm

Are we really comparing two nations with less than 5 mil people and huge swathes of emptiness each vs the UK?

Well, e.g. the Northwest and northeast of England are very comparable. Significant rural areas but most of the population concentrated in one area. Also, cities like Glasgow and Edinburgh have directly comparable cities in England. So there are comparisons to be made. As I’ve said before, this is about comparing differences and likenesses, so just saying ‘wha, there’s no comparison’ is equally invalid.

Without going into the in's and out's of comparisons across the 4 UK nations it really is sad how we have become immune to the number of excess or Covid related deaths across the UK. We now 'celebrate' when the deaths fall below an average of 100 per day as they did last week. It almost seems this has become an acceptable price to pay as long as we can open the pubs and go to Ikea.Its even difficult now to find any info on the numbers of cases and deaths , doesn't even appear on front page of BBC website!

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:22 am Here we go

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeop ... 52020.xlsx

Click on the weekly figures tab.

Compare the first 2 data rows. Top 1 being 2020 and second one being historical avg for the same week.

You’ll see from about 5 June, it’s back to normal in the UK

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:07 am
Fark me getting old is deadly.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:14 am

stunt_cunt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:13 pm
Last week, Spanish virologists announced they had found traces of the disease in samples of waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the coronavirus disease was seen in China.

Spanish Flu MKII. Makes sense.

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:21 am If I were to take the same demographic to work out the Covid deaths the following pops up.

from 20 Mar as our start point (week 12 to week 25) there were 168 Covid deaths for that <1 to 35 age group over 13 weeks. 28.8 Million people in this age bracket and 168 people died from Covid. It has killed 1 in 170 000 so far.

Same start point for the over 85's and there were 20 940.

If I made it over 80 for the same timeframe there were 30 376 over the 13 weeks. How many people (number) are in this part of the demographic.3.37 Million people in this demographic. It has killed about 1 in 100 or 1% so far.

I think this may clearly show just how deadly this to the elderly and yet remarkably how dramatically different it is if you are under 35.

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:13 am And here’s a heat map of the deaths per age group




Look away Enz.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:58 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:13 am And here’s a heat map of the deaths per age group




Look away Enz.

Bastid!!!

Actually, doubly worrying as I have a birth defect in my heart. I am a bit paranoid about this thing - still

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:33 am So a huge seroprevelance study done in Spain. 60k+ participants. Very low seroprevalance, and a good bit of evidence that t-cell immunity is likely responsible for less than 10% of cases (less than 10% of those who'd tested positive for covid previously didn't show antibodies).

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:02 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:33 am So a huge seroprevelance study done in Spain. 60k+ participants. Very low seroprevalance, and a good bit of evidence that t-cell immunity is likely responsible for less than 10% of cases (less than 10% of those who'd tested positive for covid previously didn't show antibodies).

Ok. Cool.













But also what does that mean in laymans terms?

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:11 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:02 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:33 am So a huge seroprevelance study done in Spain. 60k+ participants. Very low seroprevalance, and a good bit of evidence that t-cell immunity is likely responsible for less than 10% of cases (less than 10% of those who'd tested positive for covid previously didn't show antibodies).

Ok. Cool.













But also what does that mean in laymans terms?

Herd immunity through catching the disease doesn't work.

If you've been infected, you've almost certainly developed antibodies to fight off the virus, rather than rely on a white T-Cell response to destroy infected cells. The people that were hoping that in fact 90% of us had already had it, despite actual covid testing not showing that, and then despite earlier seroprevalence studies not showing that, was based on peoples T-Cells destroying the illness (which wouldn't show on a seroprevalence test). Basically, 50%+ of us have not had it. In fact outside of highly effected areas, it's likely 5% or less.

In the end, what it means is we need either very effective treatment for this, so we can let it spread naturally, but treat everyone to keep them alive. Or we need a vaccine.

CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:14 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:11 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:02 am

Ok. Cool.













But also what does that mean in laymans terms?

Herd immunity through catching the disease doesn't work.

If you've been infected, you've almost certainly developed antibodies to fight off the virus, rather than rely on a white T-Cell response to destroy infected cells. The people that were hoping that in fact 90% of us had already had it, despite actual covid testing not showing that, and then despite earlier seroprevalence studies not showing that, was based on peoples T-Cells destroying the illness (which wouldn't show on a seroprevalence test). Basically, 50%+ of us have not had it. In fact outside of highly effected areas, it's likely 5% or less.

In the end, what it means is we need either very effective treatment for this, so we can let it spread naturally, but treat everyone to keep them alive. Or we need a vaccine.

What is the evidence re. T-cells? How can they test for whether you fought it off that way or not?

Does this also disprove the natural immunity hypothesis or is that separate?

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:25 am https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/florid ... ug-report/

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:22 am Here we go

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeop ... 52020.xlsx

Click on the weekly figures tab.

Compare the first 2 data rows. Top 1 being 2020 and second one being historical avg for the same week.

You’ll see from about 5 June, it’s back to normal in the UK

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:09 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:21 am If I were to take the same demographic to work out the Covid deaths the following pops up.

from 20 Mar as our start point (week 12 to week 25) there were 168 Covid deaths for that <1 to 35 age group over 13 weeks. 28.8 Million people in this age bracket and 168 people died from Covid. It has killed 1 in 170 000 so far.

Same start point for the over 85's and there were 20 940.

If I made it over 80 for the same timeframe there were 30 376 over the 13 weeks. How many people (number) are in this part of the demographic.3.37 Million people in this demographic. It has killed about 1 in 100 or 1% so far.

I think this may clearly show just how deadly this to the elderly and yet remarkably how dramatically different it is if you are under 35.

There is some worrying evidence that, despite surviving Covid, some younger people could have a shorter life expectancy (or ongoing health issues) as a result (even if they were asymptomatic). They may well not be getting away unscathed.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:45 am

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:09 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:21 am If I were to take the same demographic to work out the Covid deaths the following pops up.

from 20 Mar as our start point (week 12 to week 25) there were 168 Covid deaths for that <1 to 35 age group over 13 weeks. 28.8 Million people in this age bracket and 168 people died from Covid. It has killed 1 in 170 000 so far.

Same start point for the over 85's and there were 20 940.

If I made it over 80 for the same timeframe there were 30 376 over the 13 weeks. How many people (number) are in this part of the demographic.3.37 Million people in this demographic. It has killed about 1 in 100 or 1% so far.

I think this may clearly show just how deadly this to the elderly and yet remarkably how dramatically different it is if you are under 35.

There is some worrying evidence that, despite surviving Covid, some younger people could have a shorter life expectancy (or ongoing health issues) as a result (even if they were asymptomatic). They may well not be getting away unscathed.

One of my wifes friends in Edinburgh (34yrs) has had a terrible time of it, near enough 9 weeks of being in and out of hospital. We saw her last week (across the street and a shouted conversation) and she seemed back to normal, got a message last night that she has had a relapse and her lungs are in a very bad condition.

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:25 am So, the great pub unlocking.......

My local has had to take the decision to ban under-25s from 8pm onwards. They simply refuse to follow any distancing rules, follow the 1 way system, use hand sanitizer etc.

they genuinely think that they're invulnerable

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:16 am A few weeks old now but should be mandatory watching.
https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-ka ... the-virus/

Ignore the journo. Listen to the heavyweight.

In the past two weeks, the virus is showing signs of petering out
– It’s as though the virus is ‘getting tired’
– It’s happening across the world at the same time

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:16 am A few weeks old now but should be mandatory watching.
https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-ka ... the-virus/

Ignore the journo. Listen to the heavyweight.

TB63 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:31 am

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:25 am So, the great pub unlocking.......

My local has had to take the decision to ban under-25s from 8pm onwards. They simply refuse to follow any distancing rules, follow the 1 way system, use hand sanitizer etc.

they genuinely think that they're invulnerable

Which one? Daughter was refused entry to a few in town..

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:41 am Sort of misses the point really? There have been over 65,000 excess deaths

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:20 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:16 am A few weeks old now but should be mandatory watching.
https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-ka ... the-virus/

Ignore the journo. Listen to the heavyweight.

Why? Some of his points are objectively incorrect.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:26 am

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:20 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:16 am A few weeks old now but should be mandatory watching.
https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-ka ... the-virus/

Ignore the journo. Listen to the heavyweight.

Why? Some of his points are objectively incorrect.

Should have explained: because some people found him irritating and looking for an agenda and so bailed on the piece. He's a journo and that's his job. Personally, I don't think his questioning (in this case) added anything to the discussion.