NPR

Umaga bottled that a bit. Don't want to sound like I'm picking on him but eh

Fun match so far

That was all Willis, not putting anything on Umaga there.

My stram quality's not great, but was that not a knock on in the tackle on Willis? Flight of the ball looked like it.

Edit - what a response!

Haha, wonderful try. JJ got fuuuuucked there.

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:05 pm My stram quality's not great, but was that not a knock on in the tackle on Willis? Flight of the ball looked like it.

Edit - what a response!

Nah, copped a hit on the arm maybe...

We need to give up on the breakdown with Carley unless it's 100% pure, and we can survive the clearout for several seconds.

Monye, if it's squeeze ball position they don't need to be on the ball, that was what was said. The fact he dragged him 3m and the tackled player didn't release is the problem. The pen was given against whoever it was that took out the 9.

Needed that.

Grandfather Time on for Le Bourgeois, possibly a necessary change to exert a bit more control even if its injury enforced.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:13 pm Monye, if it's squeeze ball position they don't need to be on the ball, that was what was said. The fact he dragged him 3m and the tackled player didn't release is the problem. The pen was given against whoever it was that took out the 9.

They do need to be on the ball.

Think Carley is just giving these scrums to even them out. Stuart clearly on the arm, repeatedly, including the time he whistled it in Stuarts favour.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:13 pm Monye, if it's squeeze ball position they don't need to be on the ball, that was what was said. The fact he dragged him 3m and the tackled player didn't release is the problem. The pen was given against whoever it was that took out the 9.

They do need to be on the ball.

Not with the squeeze ball position, it's impossible to get on the ball in those circumstances, if they drag the player, like Willis did, the player has to release the ball.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm Think Carley is just giving these scrums to even them out. Stuart clearly on the arm, repeatedly, including the time he whistled it in Stuarts favour.

West's arse is miles higher than his shoulders, which is not helping him at all

Having just watched a replay of the last one, Stuart is actually binding on the chest , you can see the shirt when he disengages on collapse

Surely that's blatant enough to be a yellow

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm Think Carley is just giving these scrums to even them out. Stuart clearly on the arm, repeatedly, including the time he whistled it in Stuarts favour.

West's arse is miles higher than his shoulders, which is not helping him at all

Stuart is on his arm, he's getting pulled to the ground in that position and there's nothing he can do.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm Think Carley is just giving these scrums to even them out. Stuart clearly on the arm, repeatedly, including the time he whistled it in Stuarts favour.

West's arse is miles higher than his shoulders, which is not helping him at all

Stuart is on his arm, he's getting pulled to the ground in that position and there's nothing he can do.

No, see my edit. The bind on the last one was actually chest.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:28 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm

West's arse is miles higher than his shoulders, which is not helping him at all

Stuart is on his arm, he's getting pulled to the ground in that position and there's nothing he can do.

No, see my edit. The bind on the last one was actually chest.

Going to disagree, also having seen the replay.

Missed the collapse of the maul. Then this is the second time they've offended, and just killed the ball regardless.

Good time to score, liked the variation of angles with those running off the quick tap.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:30 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:28 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm

Stuart is on his arm, he's getting pulled to the ground in that position and there's nothing he can do.

No, see my edit. The bind on the last one was actually chest.

Going to disagree, also having seen the replay.

Missed the collapse of the maul. Then this is the second time they've offended, and just killed the ball regardless.

I don't want you thinking the ref is screwing you. I'm happy to upload a video. The hand is binding on the chest, not the arm.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:32 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:30 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:28 pm

No, see my edit. The bind on the last one was actually chest.

Going to disagree, also having seen the replay.

Missed the collapse of the maul. Then this is the second time they've offended, and just killed the ball regardless.

I don't want you thinking the ref is screwing you. I'm happy to upload a video. The hand is binding on the chest, not the arm.

I don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:32 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:30 pm

Going to disagree, also having seen the replay.

Missed the collapse of the maul. Then this is the second time they've offended, and just killed the ball regardless.

I don't want you thinking the ref is screwing you. I'm happy to upload a video. The hand is binding on the chest, not the arm.

I don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.

No. The law is about binding on the arm. If you're binding on the chest, you're fine. West's problems are a) he's allowed Stuart to get a tight bind around and under him, and b) his hips are too high.

You may well be right about the other scrums, I only looked at this one in detail, but his arse height was a big issue on at least one other scrum and that's a basic problem.


It's kind of an odd game so far - it's reasonably open and quite exciting, but both sides have made life easy in defence at times!

Enjoyable match for the neutral mind you
53 points in 40 minutes and some excellent tries

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:42 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:32 pm

I don't want you thinking the ref is screwing you. I'm happy to upload a video. The hand is binding on the chest, not the arm.

I don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.

No. The law is about binding on the arm. If you're binding on the chest, you're fine. West's problems are a) he's allowed Stuart to get a tight bind around and under him, and b) his hips are too high.

You may well be right about the other scrums, I only looked at this one in detail, but his arse height was a big issue on at least one other scrum and that's a basic problem.


It's kind of an odd game so far - it's reasonably open and quite exciting, but both sides have made life easy in defence at times!

Yeah, but if you grab the shirt, then bring your hand (and the shirt) onto the top of the arm (basically in the armpit, or just below), it's classed as binding on the arm. You're supposed to keep your hand off their arm, you can get away with it on the shoulder, but perfectly you want a long bind and keep your arm basically outstretched, the problem is, it's not as powerful a position, and it means you struggle to control their arms as much. By bringing in a tighter bind, you can also force their elbow down, and almost twist them in, quite often buying yourself a penalty as a lot of refs will see the looseheads elbow pointing down, and assume his twisting in or pulling it to ground, when in truth it's the tighthead forcing his arm down due to the very short bind.

Tom Cruse is such a success story, lovely try.

Bonus point baby.

Feck, that was really nice from Redpath.

Christ knows how high the final score is going to get at this rate!

Bloody hell, can we stop with the daft stuff. This game is going to give me a heart attack.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:42 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pm

I don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.

No. The law is about binding on the arm. If you're binding on the chest, you're fine. West's problems are a) he's allowed Stuart to get a tight bind around and under him, and b) his hips are too high.

You may well be right about the other scrums, I only looked at this one in detail, but his arse height was a big issue on at least one other scrum and that's a basic problem.


It's kind of an odd game so far - it's reasonably open and quite exciting, but both sides have made life easy in defence at times!

Yeah, but if you grab the shirt, then bring your hand (and the shirt) onto the top of the arm (basically in the armpit, or just below), it's classed as binding on the arm. You're supposed to keep your hand off their arm, you can get away with it on the shoulder, but perfectly you want a long bind and keep your arm basically outstretched, the problem is, it's not as powerful a position, and it means you struggle to control their arms as much. By bringing in a tighter bind, you can also force their elbow down, and almost twist them in, quite often buying yourself a penalty as a lot of refs will see the looseheads elbow pointing down, and assume his twisting in or pulling it to ground, when in truth it's the tighthead forcing his arm down due to the very short bind.

a) It's not classed as binding on the arm if you're bound on the chest, which is what Stuart is doing. He is not binding on the armpit or the shoulder. His hand is not on the arm. I will upload the video once google stops being a dick!
b) He has achieved what all tightheads really want in a scrum, which is - as you've correctly pointed out - is to get a tight but legal bind where he's essentially depowered his opposite number and has great control over his outside arm. It is up to the loosehead to avoid getting in that position in the first place.
c) You cannot win that battle if your head is below your hips from the start, which is West's other major issue.



video here- you can actually see West's armpit and the hand isn't on it, the hand's clearly on the chest. if the resolution is good enough on imgur you should be able to see the chest part of the shirt spring back when he releases.

Stuart's doing a great job with that one - we'll see what happens in the 2nd half once the coaches have had a word with West.

Odogwu is coming into serious form.

Looks like whoever can actually manage a kick off will take the game at the moment.

Fuck me I had a lot of action to catch up on!

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:56 pm Odogwu is coming into serious form.

Looks like whoever can actually manage a kick off will take the game at the moment.

Running through an Underhill arm tackle shows his power, jeez

Preistland going off for an HIA I reckon.

Thought so, he caught Gopperths shoulder, and stumbled away wobbling.

Fair to say Gopperth's had a huge impact on this game.

Oh, listen to that. The one time you don't have to play the ball is when they're in the squeeze ball position...

Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.

Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:04 pm Fair to say Gopperth's had a huge impact on this game.

Aye, still plenty of life in the old man yet.

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:05 pm Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.

Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.

They're always ecnouraged to bite off as much as possible, it means a few go dead, but a fair few more end up scoreable. I'll settle for it.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:05 pm Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.

Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.

They're always ecnouraged to bite off as much as possible, it means a few go dead, but a fair few more end up scoreable. I'll settle for it.

Don't see the need to go for broke with the field position we were already in and all this pressure has stemmed from the resultant scrum.

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:12 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:05 pm Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.

Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.

They're always ecnouraged to bite off as much as possible, it means a few go dead, but a fair few more end up scoreable. I'll settle for it.

Don't see the need to go for broke with the field position we were already in and all this pressure has stemmed from the resultant scrum.

The difference is being able to maul it over or not. Personally I think we should have gone for 3.

That one was bad.