Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:52 am
I'd keep Darcy in but the rest is good news (not that Maitland being fit is bad).
A place where escape goats go to play
https://notplanetrugby.com/
I agree with the comparisonYr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 amIt’s just barking mad that Fagerson gets a longer ban than POM if you have seen both incidents. It was being suggested on Twitter that Fagerson wouldn’t admit that the offence merited a sending off, which if true is presumably why. It’s a travesty if you get a longer ban for sticking up for yourself though.mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:22 pm 4 weeks for Zander, which is one more than POM got, for what seemed to be a worse offence.
Did Zander take along the wrong biscuits?
The Disciplinary Committee found that the act of foul play warranted a mid-range entry point (six weeks’ suspension) and reduced that by two weeks to take account of mitigating factors (including his admission of foul play, good disciplinary record and remorse). Mr Fagerson is therefore suspended for four weeks and, given his playing schedule, he will miss the three Scotland matches in the Guinness Six Nations Championship against France, Ireland and Italy, and one further match to be determined. He was reminded of his right of appeal.
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:55 amI agree with the comparisonYr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 amIt’s just barking mad that Fagerson gets a longer ban than POM if you have seen both incidents. It was being suggested on Twitter that Fagerson wouldn’t admit that the offence merited a sending off, which if true is presumably why. It’s a travesty if you get a longer ban for sticking up for yourself though.mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:22 pm 4 weeks for Zander, which is one more than POM got, for what seemed to be a worse offence.
Did Zander take along the wrong biscuits?
I would suggest that the SRU should be asking questions of their appointed lawyer that would have been representing Fagerson
Ireland obviously had better representation for POM and dealt with the Disciplinary Committee better
Basically he gets penalised for agreeing with the TMO.
If we can produce another performance at the level of the England game, a result v Ireland is far from impossible. Maybe even in Paris if France have an off day. The question is whether we can. For some reason we save both our best and our worst performances up for England games.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:16 amRoughly the same here. I was in full denial for a few days. Still consumed by disbelief but hey ho, onwards.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:04 amI was in a properly foul mood for 2 days. Didn’t even want to think about it. Fortunately that has now lifted, and I’m back to my usual manageable pessimism. I think it was a sort of mini-grief reaction because after we were so good in the England game, I had got my hopes up rather higher than usual, only for them to be dashed immediately (and by Wales, who I am seriously fed up losing to).
There's no chance in hell of a result in Paris and with Ireland I don't have The Fear but The Resignation - somehow they'll beat us as our upstanding RugbyValues(TM) lads just can't deal with Irish-level shithousery.
So a 2-win 6N most likely which is well below the potential of this team.
Ahh, ok I see thatTichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:10 amSaintK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:55 amI agree with the comparisonYr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 am
It’s just barking mad that Fagerson gets a longer ban than POM if you have seen both incidents. It was being suggested on Twitter that Fagerson wouldn’t admit that the offence merited a sending off, which if true is presumably why. It’s a travesty if you get a longer ban for sticking up for yourself though.
I would suggest that the SRU should be asking questions of their appointed lawyer that would have been representing Fagerson
Ireland obviously had better representation for POM and dealt with the Disciplinary Committee better
There is a Scottish QC quoted elsewhere, he sits on disciplinary panels, but not this one obviously. He says that the process in cases such as this is - entry point for offence, reduction based on previous good disciplinary record, then a further reduction for not querying the decision.
So for POM, entry point six weeks, two weeks off for good record (he has been sent off for Munster this season), a further one week reduction for not challenging the decision.
Fagerson - entry point six weeks, two off for never having been sent off before, but no further reduction as he pleaded guilty to foul play but thought it merited a yellow.
Some folk are saying this was probably a gamble on the part of Fagerson's representatives as it would have made no difference to missing the next three 6N games, there were two possible outcomes - four weeks and missing a Glasgow game on top of the 6N, or card brought down to a yellow, - no ban.
I can’t say I watch much super rugby to judge for my self, however the general gist appears to be that this is an excellent signing. If he is as good as is being made out, he will be a fantastic player for Ollie Smith and Rufus McLean to learn from.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:18 pm Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.
Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.
Dunno how good these guys are but at least Glasgow are finally making progress with overhauling their squad. Their recruitment seemed to suffer during the Rennie/Wilson crossover.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:18 pm Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.
Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.
The overlap with covid was probably the major factor and Bombrys has said 3 deals fell through accordingly.robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:47 amDunno how good these guys are but at least Glasgow are finally making progress with overhauling their squad. Their recruitment seemed to suffer during the Rennie/Wilson crossover.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:18 pm Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.
Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.
Not SQ? I thought he was. I watched SR Aotearoa last year and he was definitely one that caught the eye, although mostly playing wing.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:23 amI can’t say I watch much super rugby to judge for my self, however the general gist appears to be that this is an excellent signing. If he is as good as is being made out, he will be a fantastic player for Ollie Smith and Rufus McLean to learn from.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:18 pm Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.
Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.
Apparently also able to play 10 and wing, so a good versatile and always available during international periods option.
All Twitter talk, but the report on McKay was true, and I can confirm Cole Forbes does indeed list his Instagram location as Glasgow (I have an account to keep an eye on my teenager).clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:37 amNot SQ? I thought he was. I watched SR Aotearoa last year and he was definitely one that caught the eye, although mostly playing wing.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:23 amI can’t say I watch much super rugby to judge for my self, however the general gist appears to be that this is an excellent signing. If he is as good as is being made out, he will be a fantastic player for Ollie Smith and Rufus McLean to learn from.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:18 pm Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.
Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.
Apparently also able to play 10 and wing, so a good versatile and always available during international periods option.
Great news on Forbes as well if that is true.
Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.
I agree with you, but playing Devil's advocate - if the coaches think they aren't good enough and never will be why would we reduce the chance of success for the pro teams by continually playing them?Soapy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:08 pmReally pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.
It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.
It's a challenging balance to strike and no easy solution. To your Devil's advocate play, if these are the best young SQ players we have surely we need to accept that and do the best we can to develop whatever talent we have? I'd rather the clubs lost a few games while investing in bringing on SQ players as far as possible than not invest and watch the international team being scrummed off the park for the next decade.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:28 pmI agree with you, but playing Devil's advocate - if the coaches think they aren't good enough and never will be why would we reduce the chance of success for the pro teams by continually playing them?Soapy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:08 pm
Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.
It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.
That's not really how it works though, it's not these specific guys in this specific year group or nobody. Perhaps Edinburgh have decided that Murray McCallum has no chance but Grahamslaw or Gamble can go all the way - but they aren't quite ready for pro rugby this season. Do you waste effort on a player that will never make it, or do you use the best players you have until the young ones are ready to make an impact?Soapy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:24 pmIt's a challenging balance to strike and no easy solution. To your Devil's advocate play, if these are the best young SQ players we have surely we need to accept that and do the best we can to develop whatever talent we have? I'd rather the clubs lost a few games while investing in bringing on SQ players as far as possible than not invest and watch the international team being scrummed off the park for the next decade.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:28 pmI agree with you, but playing Devil's advocate - if the coaches think they aren't good enough and never will be why would we reduce the chance of success for the pro teams by continually playing them?Soapy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:08 pm
Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.
It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.
My view is that Glasgow and Edinburgh are funded by the SRU and therefore need to play a role in developing players for the international team - especially in positions where we are short on options. If it means Cockerill or Wilson can't sign a SA or Tongan tight head, so be it.
I also agree with Gordon Reid that the Super 6 just isn't going to provide the competitive, physically challenging environment that is needed to develop locks and props and make them ready to play at a pro level.
So if a young prop or lock isn't in the immediate running for a pro club match day squad there is absolutely nowhere in the pro system for him to develop and attain that level.
Of course, if the pro teams were privately funded it's entirely different.
I think we are pretty aligned on this and I agree that that pool of THs has been badly managed.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:27 pm
That's not really how it works though, it's not these specific guys in this specific year group or nobody. Perhaps Edinburgh have decided that Murray McCallum has no chance but Grahamslaw or Gamble can go all the way - but they aren't quite ready for pro rugby this season. Do you waste effort on a player that will never make it, or do you use the best players you have until the young ones are ready to make an impact?
As it happens, I think all of McCallum, Rae and Nicol have been badly managed as all have shown in my opinion that they can cut it at Pro14 level. However, there is a reason I'm not a top level rugby coach, it's very possible those players are all just a bit shit.
England beat Wales and we get a 28-0 walkover. . It's back onKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:46 pm Dupont positive for COVID and presumably out of next week’s match. Not sure how many have it so far?
Ha, maybe! I genuinely hope not though, I’d rather lose than see a walkover. I saw a comment elsewhere that the 6N didn’t replicate the AI rules though and that there are no walkovers, just rescheduling.Caley_Red wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:42 amEngland beat Wales and we get a 28-0 walkover. . It's back onKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:46 pm Dupont positive for COVID and presumably out of next week’s match. Not sure how many have it so far?
How did Hastings play? Reckon he'll be in the match day squad v France?KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:59 am That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.
Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.
Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.
Came on to ask the same. The report I read said he did well. I’d have him straight back inBegbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:07 amHow did Hastings play? Reckon he'll be in the match day squad v France?KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:59 am That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.
Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.
Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.
Solid I would say. He lasted around 55mins, kicked his kicks and got the ball wide on occasion. He mixed up the attack but didn’t produce anything exceptional.Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:53 amCame on to ask the same. The report I read said he did well. I’d have him straight back inBegbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:07 amHow did Hastings play? Reckon he'll be in the match day squad v France?KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:59 am That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.
Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.
Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.
Hastings is underrated. To say Hastings to Weir isn't a pretty big downgrade is errrr.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:38 pm Glasgow were pretty rank yesterday, lots of huff and puff but little else.
Ulster defence was magnificent, guys like Jones kept running into heavy traffic where they normally would have a few line breaks here an there - and that was all down to Ulster excellence.
Hastings tried to run too much for me, a bit more mixing it up would be better. But he showed his class, I really think he will be a big miss next season.