NPR

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:34 pm Can't see any alternative really. Would have got very messy legally if a club like Gloucester (who've received no 'covid points') was narrowly relegated

Agree completely

Hells Bells wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:56 pm I see that the RFU have agreed to a 28 man squad for the 6 Nations (France have named a 37 man squad).

Don’t know how that will affect selection, at a guess I think Eddie will divide the squad like the following:

4 props
3 hookers
4 locks
5 backrow
2 SH
2 FH
3 centres
5 back three

Not enough centres allowed for Jones' liking.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:25 pm

Hells Bells wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:56 pm I see that the RFU have agreed to a 28 man squad for the 6 Nations (France have named a 37 man squad).

Don’t know how that will affect selection, at a guess I think Eddie will divide the squad like the following:

4 props
3 hookers
4 locks
5 backrow
2 SH
2 FH
3 centres
5 back three

Tough to say, given we have centres that can play on the wing etc. I do agree with your forwards though, maybe one extra backrow at the expense of someone else.

If they are going to be this strict with numbers, 3 scrum halves has to be a necessity. Assuming the tournament goes ahead...

Make it 30, then when the Six Nations is cancelled they can give us a Probables v Possibles game instead.

If Simpson Daniel is available, Probables by a country mile.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:31 pm If Simpson Daniel is available, Probables by a country mile.

Very good!

Not looking too promising for Premiership restart for Bath

Bath have closed their training ground after “a number of players and staff” returned positive Covid results. They are not due to play again until Bristol away on Friday week.
Team boss Stuart Hooper said: “This is an anxious time for us all and the mental as well as physical health of our people and their families is our priority.
"Our planned training sessions have been cancelled and those able to train from home will now do so. My team and I are focused on doing all we can to be ready to play our up-and-coming fixtures, but I must reinforce that I will not allow the health of our people to be compromised.”

Cam Redpath apparently going to be named in the Scotland squad, but of a kicker as I thought he would be a good option at 12 for us in the future.

Hells Bells wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:24 am Cam Redpath apparently going to be named in the Scotland squad, but of a kicker as I thought he would be a good option at 12 for us in the future.

Would have been weird him playing for England IMHO

Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:02 am

Hells Bells wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:24 am Cam Redpath apparently going to be named in the Scotland squad, but of a kicker as I thought he would be a good option at 12 for us in the future.

Would have been weird him playing for England IMHO

Why? Obviously his dad means many asociate him with Scotland, but he's been raised here and been through the age groups. If he's prepared to wait 'til Covid's done and Eddie can have a bigger squad I've no doubt he'd get a call up again after injury robbed him the first time around.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

Interesting, especially as he's far from first choice for club in positions that are hardly uncompetitive for England (wing and outside centre).

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:31 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

Interesting, especially as he's far from first choice for club in positions that are hardly uncompetitive for England (wing and outside centre).

I think Kibirige stays first choice at 14, but Odogwu trading blows with Fekitoa is an interesting one for me.

There's a degree of urgency to stop Italy from grabbing him, but he has been very impressive, and Eddie likes versatility, and much like Nowell, Odogwu is good in the breakdown (he started rugby as a prop) so should help our wider attack too.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:31 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

Interesting, especially as he's far from first choice for club in positions that are hardly uncompetitive for England (wing and outside centre).

Very surprising given it's a reduced squad. Should imagine it's an Italian "spoiler" particuilarly as Jones missed out on selecting Polledri

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:33 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:31 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

Interesting, especially as he's far from first choice for club in positions that are hardly uncompetitive for England (wing and outside centre).

I think Kibirige stays first choice at 14, but Odogwu trading blows with Fekitoa is an interesting one for me.

There's a degree of urgency to stop Italy from grabbing him, but he has been very impressive, and Eddie likes versatility, and much like Nowell, Odogwu is good in the breakdown (he started rugby as a prop) so should help our wider attack too.

Yeah, Kibirige definitely has a better kicking and aerial game than Odogwu at the moment.

Blackett's certainly on record as saying he prefers Odgowu at 13, so it sounds like he's in direct competition with Feikitoa.

Ah of course, I'd forgotten the Italy factor. From a Wasps pov, it's more useful for us to have him stay EQP and develop within the England set up than go and get used to being beaten with Italy...

I suppose he also provides the power runner option in the backs we don't really have without Tuilagi.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:31 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

Interesting, especially as he's far from first choice for club in positions that are hardly uncompetitive for England (wing and outside centre).

Very surprising given it's a reduced squad. Should imagine it's an Italian "spoiler" particuilarly as Jones missed out on selecting Polledri

I suppose the back 3 is relatively well covered if you count Slade whom Eddie's used as full back before and JJ's recent appearances on the wing, so can get away with picking just the established outside backs and bring in one bolter.

A fast bosh-y wing/centre? Eddie's all over that shit. Obviously he has some major flaws to his game but whatever, I suppose.

Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:50 am Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Depth in that position if we actually want to play with a Manu type player there? Joseph is looking more average now. Slade is good but completely different, Lawrence is raw too.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:50 am Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Think that's a little unfair. There's every chance Odogwu can develop further and be a genuine challenger for a starting spot on merit and not just because Eddie has a hard on for bosh when its available.

Also while we have plenty of options now, a few of our first choice backs are starting to age and will they be as effective by the time the next world cup rolls around? May will be 31 in April, JJ 30 in May as will Tuilagi. Daly will be 29 toward the end of this year and Slade will be 28 in March. Farrell will also turn 30 this year and we've seen Eddie deploying Slade at 12 which decreases competition at 13.

Obviously none of those ages are old, but they are older and it's important to start identifying younger replacements (Odogwu's 23) who can be brought through as needed so the team evolves and we don't have to put up with 'lost generations' as in the past or in other positions.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:50 am Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Fair point. I'm more surprised that EJ's not gone for Cam Redpath who looks like he's being selected for the Scottish squad having played for England through the age groups. Very impressive for Bath this season

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:02 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:50 am Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Fair point. I'm more surprised that EJ's not gone for Cam Redpath who looks like he's being selected for the Scottish squad having played for England through the age groups. Very impressive for Bath this season

It may be that he chose England for age grade for better development (and convenience), but never really planned on playing for England come the seniors.

Don't have a huge problem with Odogwu being involved. He's an interesting option. May not work but there have been weirder selections.

In other news it looks like most of the coaching setup including Eddie are isolating after Proudfoot tested positive.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:09 am Don't have a huge problem with Odogwu being involved. He's an interesting option. May not work but there have been weirder selections.

In other news it looks like most of the coaching setup including Eddie are isolating after Proudfoot tested positive.

Bloody hell, with Ryles not flying back in from Australia that means John Mitchell is last man standing in the coaching set up!!!

Ryles, the respected skills coach, has chosen not to travel from Australia to London with his family due to the lockdown in place in the United Kingdom. Of Jones’ front-line management staff, only defence coach John Mitchell is not currently affected by Covid-19

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:04 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:02 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:50 am Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Fair point. I'm more surprised that EJ's not gone for Cam Redpath who looks like he's being selected for the Scottish squad having played for England through the age groups. Very impressive for Bath this season

It may be that he chose England for age grade for better development (and convenience), but never really planned on playing for England come the seniors.

Thats certainly not the way its come across. He's previously stated he didn't feel any affinity to Scotland having been born in France and raised in England. Of course he could have just been saying but he's been approached by the SRU before now.

Gustard gone from Quins with immediate effect according to the Mail.

Official on the club Twitter feed.

Something rotten in the state of Harlequins.

If relegation is genuinely be suspended, this isn't a bad time to do it if they're not interested in keeping him.

Ashton indicated there was some disharmony in the dressing room following their Racing result, maybe he's completely lost them since then.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:36 pm If relegation is genuinely be suspended, this isn't a bad time to do it if they're not interested in keeping him.

Ashton indicated there was some disharmony in the dressing room following their Racing result, maybe he's completely lost them since then.

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:08 pm Gustard gone from Quins with immediate effect according to the Mail.

He certainly won't find a warm welcome back at Saracens.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:48 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:36 pm If relegation is genuinely be suspended, this isn't a bad time to do it if they're not interested in keeping him.

Ashton indicated there was some disharmony in the dressing room following their Racing result, maybe he's completely lost them since then.

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Bit of column A and a bit of column B I reckon.

Quins might actually benefit from someone like Steve Diamond coming in - an established head guy with a, let's say, forceful personality. A middling, somewhat aimless side like Quins is probably not the ideal place for a newby like Gustard to cut his teeth and might need someone with a bull in a china shop approach to buck them up. I could, of course, be speaking absolute bollocks.

I wonder where and in what capacity he'll re-surface next. Will he take a head role with some other strugglers in hopes of keeping that dream alive or will he go back to being a defence specialist.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:54 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:08 pm Gustard gone from Quins with immediate effect according to the Mail.

He certainly won't find a warm welcome back at Saracens.

Heard he was a bit of a bully and had "personal issues" when he was there.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

The Nigerian-origin players really are superb athletic specimens. No idea what standard they are nowadays but back in the 90s, London Nigerians were a real handful to play against.

Who are the current English with Nigerian origin?

Maro Itoji
Beno Obano
Jonathan/Joel Kpoku
Nick Isikwe
Paolo Odogwu


Back in the day;

Victor Ubogu
Steve Ojomo
Adedayo Adebayo
Chris Oti


They're the English Maori!


Edit: forgot the peerless Ayoola Edible

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:14 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:54 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:08 pm Gustard gone from Quins with immediate effect according to the Mail.

He certainly won't find a warm welcome back at Saracens.

Heard he was a bit of a bully and had "personal issues" when he was there.

More to do with the private investigation instigated and paid for by Harlequins to examine the Saracens accounts just after Gustard joined them.

Nobody likes a rat.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:15 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

The Nigerian-origin players really are superb athletic specimens. No idea what standard they are nowadays but back in the 90s, London Nigerians were a real handful to play against.

Who are the current English with Nigerian origin?

Maro Itoji
Beno Obano
Jonathan/Joel Kpoku
Nick Isikwe
Paolo Odogwu


Back in the day;

Victor Ubogu
Steve Ojomo
Adedayo Adebayo
Chris Oti


They're the English Maori!

I could be misremebering, but seem to recall that Biyi Alo is related to Obano and Itoje, so he'd be on the list.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:55 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:48 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:36 pm If relegation is genuinely be suspended, this isn't a bad time to do it if they're not interested in keeping him.

Ashton indicated there was some disharmony in the dressing room following their Racing result, maybe he's completely lost them since then.

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Bit of column A and a bit of column B I reckon.

Quins might actually benefit from someone like Steve Diamond coming in - an established head guy with a, let's say, forceful personality. A middling, somewhat aimless side like Quins is probably not the ideal place for a newby like Gustard to cut his teeth and might need someone with a bull in a china shop approach to buck them up. I could, of course, be speaking absolute bollocks.

I wonder where and in what capacity he'll re-surface next. Will he take a head role with some other strugglers in hopes of keeping that dream alive or will he go back to being a defence specialist.

I'm less knowledgeable, but saw Gustard in a community coaches' clinic uploaded to youtube and it wouldn't surprise me if he is ALSO that kind of bully coach. Seemed gruff, blunt, and even swore - I recall him saying "fuck that" at an option in defence he didn't like. And this was with a bunch of school and club coaches. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard he's a fan of the ol' hair dryer set to max power.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:15 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 am Odogwu apparently getting called up for England.

The Nigerian-origin players really are superb athletic specimens. No idea what standard they are nowadays but back in the 90s, London Nigerians were a real handful to play against.

Who are the current English with Nigerian origin?

Maro Itoji
Beno Obano
Jonathan/Joel Kpoku
Nick Isikwe
Paolo Odogwu


Back in the day;

Victor Ubogu
Steve Ojomo
Adedayo Adebayo
Chris Oti


They're the English Maori!

And of course Ayoola Erinle and Andrew Harriman. English Maori indeed

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:48 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:36 pm If relegation is genuinely be suspended, this isn't a bad time to do it if they're not interested in keeping him.

Ashton indicated there was some disharmony in the dressing room following their Racing result, maybe he's completely lost them since then.

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Certainly key players moving on (Robshaw, Sinckler) or getting long in the tooth (Care, Brown) plus Marchant buggering off to New Zealand for half a season have had an effect. Even the departure of a stout yeoman like Mark Lambert takes away years of experience and a reliable, known quality. Add in the perennial issue of the locks never being fit or good enough and there are all the ingredients for a team on the slide.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:50 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:48 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:36 pm If relegation is genuinely be suspended, this isn't a bad time to do it if they're not interested in keeping him.

Ashton indicated there was some disharmony in the dressing room following their Racing result, maybe he's completely lost them since then.

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Certainly key players moving on (Robshaw, Sinckler) or getting long in the tooth (Care, Brown) plus Marchant buggering off to New Zealand for half a season have had an effect. Even the departure of a stout yeoman like Mark Lambert takes away years of experience and a reliable, known quality. Add in the perennial issue of the locks never being fit or good enough and there are all the ingredients for a team on the slide.

Heard from a mate who works with the forwards coaches at Quins on occassions that Gustard's man management style of his coaching team left a lot to be desired. Lot's of foul-mouthed dressing downs in front of players and other staff. Appeared not to be dealing with the pressure at all well.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:20 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:14 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:54 pm



He certainly won't find a warm welcome back at Saracens.

Heard he was a bit of a bully and had "personal issues" when he was there.

More to do with the private investigation instigated and paid for by Harlequins to examine the Saracens accounts just after Gustard joined them.

Nobody likes a rat.

Was it not reported he is off the Wales as defence coach?

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:56 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:50 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:48 pm

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Certainly key players moving on (Robshaw, Sinckler) or getting long in the tooth (Care, Brown) plus Marchant buggering off to New Zealand for half a season have had an effect. Even the departure of a stout yeoman like Mark Lambert takes away years of experience and a reliable, known quality. Add in the perennial issue of the locks never being fit or good enough and there are all the ingredients for a team on the slide.

Heard from a mate who works with the forwards coaches at Quins on occassions that Gustard's man management style of his coaching team left a lot to be desired. Lot's of foul-mouthed dressing downs in front of players and other staff. Appeared not to be dealing with the pressure at all well.

That would certainly seem consistent with what Niegs posted above.