NPR

Jock42 wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 1:36 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 1:00 pm

sturginho wrote: Mon Mar 17, 2025 9:03 pm

Menoncello nominated again

Seeing the stats Kinghorn might be the one.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ab=players

It would be great to have another jock a potc but I'd give it to LBB

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:59 pm There's a slightly clearer view of it here,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... lygq419yko


That it was a deliberate action from Mauvaka cannot be in dispute. There is nothing in that laws that I can see that says White has to be knocked out or has to suffer a broken jaw, on the contrary, the laws only mention the action of the perpetrator, ie law 9.12

A player must not physically or verbally abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes, but is not limited to, biting, punching, contact with the eye or eye area, striking with any part of the arm, shoulder, head or knee(s), stamping, trampling, tripping or kicking.

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:00 pm

Jock42 wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 1:36 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 1:00 pm

Seeing the stats Kinghorn might be the one.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ab=players

It would be great to have another jock a potc but I'd give it to LBB

Ah the Auld Alliance not like the grumpy Irish.
I like LBB, he makes a big difference in the team ( he also plays for my club UBB, no family relations), but personally I would have put #6 François Cros instead.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:08 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:59 pm There's a slightly clearer view of it here,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... lygq419yko


That it was a deliberate action from Mauvaka cannot be in dispute. There is nothing in that laws that I can see that says White has to be knocked out or has to suffer a broken jaw, on the contrary, the laws only mention the action of the perpetrator, ie law 9.12

A player must not physically or verbally abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes, but is not limited to, biting, punching, contact with the eye or eye area, striking with any part of the arm, shoulder, head or knee(s), stamping, trampling, tripping or kicking.

Agree it was foul play and deserved sanction. I'm just not convinced there was little or any actual contact with White's head. You can't see it hit from the video, that's just the assumption made from seeing White go the full Ronaldo holding his face.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:04 pm I don't think it was a headbutt. If you watch it, it looks like Mauvaka's head goes to the left and below the chin of White and it's the right shoulder that hits high on the chest. If there was contact with White's head then it happened in a glancing motion to his chin area. The optics of him then grabbing his face reflected poorly on White imho.

Still definitely a YC though.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:08 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:59 pm There's a slightly clearer view of it here,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... lygq419yko


That it was a deliberate action from Mauvaka cannot be in dispute. There is nothing in that laws that I can see that says White has to be knocked out or has to suffer a broken jaw, on the contrary, the laws only mention the action of the perpetrator, ie law 9.12

A player must not physically or verbally abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes, but is not limited to, biting, punching, contact with the eye or eye area, striking with any part of the arm, shoulder, head or knee(s), stamping, trampling, tripping or kicking.

Agree it was foul play and deserved sanction. I'm just not convinced there was little or any actual contact with White's head. You can't see it hit from the video, that's just the assumption made from seeing White go the full Ronaldo holding his face.

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 8:29 am

Blackmac wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:21 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:08 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:59 pm There's a slightly clearer view of it here,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... lygq419yko


That it was a deliberate action from Mauvaka cannot be in dispute. There is nothing in that laws that I can see that says White has to be knocked out or has to suffer a broken jaw, on the contrary, the laws only mention the action of the perpetrator, ie law 9.12

Agree it was foul play and deserved sanction. I'm just not convinced there was little or any actual contact with White's head. You can't see it hit from the video, that's just the assumption made from seeing White go the full Ronaldo holding his face.

Funnily enough there is suddenly a perfect overhead footage, all over Twitter, that shows it's a full headbutt directly to White's face.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:20 am

Blackmac wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:21 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:08 pm



Agree it was foul play and deserved sanction. I'm just not convinced there was little or any actual contact with White's head. You can't see it hit from the video, that's just the assumption made from seeing White go the full Ronaldo holding his face.

Funnily enough there is suddenly a perfect overhead footage, all over Twitter, that shows it's a full headbutt directly to White's face.

I don't actually remember seeing White go off for an HIA, which presumably is why it wasn't upgraded to a red as there simply wasn't much contact. Which is beyond lucky for a beyond stupid action, he could have easily gotten similar force contact to Botha on Cowan.

That said I wasn't watching that closely, my first instinct was to penalise White for going full footballer, but that's somewhat harsh for all he does seem to reach for some am-dram skills. I have to say I've no sense of what Mauvaka should get for this, in many ways it'd be easier if he really had stuck one on White, he deserves something and yet not a lot seemingly actually resulted from his disgusting reaction

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:00 pm
Ah the Auld Alliance not like the grumpy Irish.
I like LBB, he makes a big difference in the team ( he also plays for my club UBB, no family relations), but personally I would have put #6 François Cros instead.

dpedin wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:20 am

Blackmac wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:21 pm

Funnily enough there is suddenly a perfect overhead footage, all over Twitter, that shows it's a full headbutt directly to White's face.

I don't actually remember seeing White go off for an HIA, which presumably is why it wasn't upgraded to a red as there simply wasn't much contact. Which is beyond lucky for a beyond stupid action, he could have easily gotten similar force contact to Botha on Cowan.

That said I wasn't watching that closely, my first instinct was to penalise White for going full footballer, but that's somewhat harsh for all he does seem to reach for some am-dram skills. I have to say I've no sense of what Mauvaka should get for this, in many ways it'd be easier if he really had stuck one on White, he deserves something and yet not a lot seemingly actually resulted from his disgusting reaction

There is a difference between an illegal high tackle during a period of play and basically trying to head butt another player. If a tackle then the protocol comes into play and the degree of danger, where contact is made, degree of force, etc all become part of the equation and decision making. If a player deliberately head butts another player lying on the ground, as in this case, then those issues become immaterial, it is the illegality of the actions of the player ie the head butt alone, that leads to a straight red card. In the video above then it is clear that Mauvaka launches himself using his legs to thrust his head into the head of White who is lying on the ground having done little if anything wrong. It is an unprovoked violent act and should have been a straight red card followed by a lengthy ban.

Blackmac wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:21 pm Funnily enough there is suddenly a perfect overhead footage, all over Twitter, that shows it's a full headbutt directly to White's face.

dpedin wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:20 am

Blackmac wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:21 pm

Funnily enough there is suddenly a perfect overhead footage, all over Twitter, that shows it's a full headbutt directly to White's face.

I don't actually remember seeing White go off for an HIA, which presumably is why it wasn't upgraded to a red as there simply wasn't much contact. Which is beyond lucky for a beyond stupid action, he could have easily gotten similar force contact to Botha on Cowan.

That said I wasn't watching that closely, my first instinct was to penalise White for going full footballer, but that's somewhat harsh for all he does seem to reach for some am-dram skills. I have to say I've no sense of what Mauvaka should get for this, in many ways it'd be easier if he really had stuck one on White, he deserves something and yet not a lot seemingly actually resulted from his disgusting reaction

There is a difference between an illegal high tackle during a period of play and basically trying to head butt another player. If a tackle then the protocol comes into play and the degree of danger, where contact is made, degree of force, etc all become part of the equation and decision making. If a player deliberately head butts another player lying on the ground, as in this case, then those issues become immaterial, it is the illegality of the actions of the player ie the head butt alone, that leads to a straight red card. In the video above then it is clear that Mauvaka launches himself using his legs to thrust his head into the head of White who is lying on the ground having done little if anything wrong. It is an unprovoked violent act and should have been a straight red card followed by a lengthy ban.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:53 am I don't especially want to defend Mauvaka in this, if he gets an 8-16 week ban just for sheer stupidity so be it, but it does look more a head brush than but, granted more by luck than judgement.

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:53 am

dpedin wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:20 am


I don't actually remember seeing White go off for an HIA, which presumably is why it wasn't upgraded to a red as there simply wasn't much contact. Which is beyond lucky for a beyond stupid action, he could have easily gotten similar force contact to Botha on Cowan.

That said I wasn't watching that closely, my first instinct was to penalise White for going full footballer, but that's somewhat harsh for all he does seem to reach for some am-dram skills. I have to say I've no sense of what Mauvaka should get for this, in many ways it'd be easier if he really had stuck one on White, he deserves something and yet not a lot seemingly actually resulted from his disgusting reaction

There is a difference between an illegal high tackle during a period of play and basically trying to head butt another player. If a tackle then the protocol comes into play and the degree of danger, where contact is made, degree of force, etc all become part of the equation and decision making. If a player deliberately head butts another player lying on the ground, as in this case, then those issues become immaterial, it is the illegality of the actions of the player ie the head butt alone, that leads to a straight red card. In the video above then it is clear that Mauvaka launches himself using his legs to thrust his head into the head of White who is lying on the ground having done little if anything wrong. It is an unprovoked violent act and should have been a straight red card followed by a lengthy ban.

I don't especially want to defend Mauvaka in this, if he gets an 8-16 week ban just for sheer stupidity so be it, but it does look more a head brush than but, granted more by luck than judgement. And then we get into what if you throw a punch that misses territory

I'm also not sure he launches himself at the head, me might be trying to collide the torso. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to tell the difference looking at the video. Mauvaka may know, but if he was being an utter git he's unlikely to come clean at this juncture

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 8:29 am

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:25 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

At the very least surely some reflective practice with a more senior ref(s)?

Biffer wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:35 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

It's Carley.

He's been so shit, for so long, and absolutely not up to international rugby in any way, that hanging out to dry is a very fair punishment.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:21 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:35 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

It's Carley.

He's been so shit, for so long, and absolutely not up to international rugby in any way, that hanging out to dry is a very fair punishment.

I’m less critical of Carley here than I am of Tempest.
Tempest doesn’t have the white heat of a test match to deal with, he should have said it wasn’t a tackle situation.
Then after failing that he should have upgraded yellow to red
He can call for all angles to be shown in the 8 minutes he has to deal with it

Marylandolorian wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 7:00 pm I like Mauvaka, he’s really fun to watch and I’ve no problem with these 3 weeks. At least no players were injured like Ire-Fra with 1 concussion , 1 player out for 6 months and not even a yc
Yes it’s a big problem with the rucks and some refs like Carley and Gardner too many to list, the best one right now is Pearce.

Biffer wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:35 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

It's Carley.

He's been so shit, for so long, and absolutely not up to international rugby in any way, that hanging out to dry is a very fair punishment.

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 8:07 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:53 pm 3 match ban after admitting guilt. More than I expected, was waiting for WR to "circle the wagons".

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

Nope. The most incriminating angle was only available after the game.

dpedin wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:19 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:53 am

dpedin wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 am

There is a difference between an illegal high tackle during a period of play and basically trying to head butt another player. If a tackle then the protocol comes into play and the degree of danger, where contact is made, degree of force, etc all become part of the equation and decision making. If a player deliberately head butts another player lying on the ground, as in this case, then those issues become immaterial, it is the illegality of the actions of the player ie the head butt alone, that leads to a straight red card. In the video above then it is clear that Mauvaka launches himself using his legs to thrust his head into the head of White who is lying on the ground having done little if anything wrong. It is an unprovoked violent act and should have been a straight red card followed by a lengthy ban.

I don't especially want to defend Mauvaka in this, if he gets an 8-16 week ban just for sheer stupidity so be it, but it does look more a head brush than but, granted more by luck than judgement. And then we get into what if you throw a punch that misses territory

I'm also not sure he launches himself at the head, me might be trying to collide the torso. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to tell the difference looking at the video. Mauvaka may know, but if he was being an utter git he's unlikely to come clean at this juncture

Again you cant judge his behavior on whether he injured White or if he hit his head or neck - he launched himself head first into another player's head area and made contact with his head or as damn as near it to make it difficult to tell. It is the act and the intention that is punishable here not whether he actually hit White's forehead, cheek or chin! It was not a tackle, it was a deliberate violent act after the whistle had gone and with White lying prone on the ground, you should not apply the dangerous tackle criteria to this act.

It is the similar debate about when Murray jumped into the tackle against Scotland and went on to score a 'try', he was punished for a dangerous jump into the tackle and not let off because he didn't make contact with anyone whilst making a dangerous and illegal act. The outcome is irrelevant if he has clearly jumped into the tackle, end of!

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 8:06 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:35 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:15 pm

What do they do with the ref and TMO here? I never want a ref hung out to dry but when it's such an outrageous error, using the same footage everyone else has seen, that had such a big impact on the game, you'd think something much happen

It's Carley.

He's been so shit, for so long, and absolutely not up to international rugby in any way, that hanging out to dry is a very fair punishment.

People keep saying this but fact of the matter is that these are the best refs out there. It is a serious serious process to get to that level and any weaker refs are weeded out long beforehand.