NPR

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:25 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:25 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:04 pm The questions I have with Townsend are why wasn't Turner hooked at half time?

Why can't we play the last 3 min of a game when 3 points down? It is utterly bizarre that we are kicking the ball away with 3 min to go in both games we have lost.

Mind numbing.

That’s the thing though, we all think it’s obvious but we ended up with 2 serious injuries in the pack and a young scrum half in the back row. If it was just a case of hooking off someone early doors for not playing great we would all be coaches

When a facet of play is debilitating to the extent it was then you need to take action before it costs you. We won 2 of 8 line outs and one of those was a really shabby effort.

There is a difference from hooking a player "only" because he's having a shocker to hooking him when his poor play is having a devastating impact to the whole team game plan.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:18 pm Dobbie and Thompson era starts on Saturday.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:17 pm This is what I think. What I can’t understand is this: Wales have pro teams who are generally as mediocre as ours, and underperform at European level too. Yet they are a game away from a GS and we are nowhere. If this isn’t down to coaching, what is it?

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:11 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:18 pm Dobbie and Thompson era starts on Saturday.

Nice thought, but I can’t see it happening. There’s a chance Thompson might make the bench, but Jaco VdW will be in to start and I suspect Toony will rely on Hogg or Lang for cover at 10.

Price will keep his spot, partly because there will be a less experienced 10 playing, but mainly because Toony is stubborn. Given that it’s Italy, giving Steele a start might not be a bad plan, although Italy will doubtless have saved up their one good performance for this game, as they usually do, but I can’t see a new 9 coming in at this stage.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:16 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:11 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:18 pm Dobbie and Thompson era starts on Saturday.

Nice thought, but I can’t see it happening. There’s a chance Thompson might make the bench, but Jaco VdW will be in to start and I suspect Toony will rely on Hogg or Lang for cover at 10.

Price will keep his spot, partly because there will be a less experienced 10 playing, but mainly because Toony is stubborn. Given that it’s Italy, giving Steele a start might not be a bad plan, although Italy will doubtless have saved up their one good performance for this game, as they usually do, but I can’t see a new 9 coming in at this stage.

Italy have been as bad as I've ever seen them in this tournament. Buuuuuuut a disheartened Scotland team with loads of key injuries and suspensions (hookers, starting and bench props, second rows, 10s, Redpath who is looking even better in his absence). If we don't win by 20 judging by what everyone else has done to Italy it's not good enough. But I might be watching the game from behind a sofa...

I think you have to play Dobie in this one. Maybe not from the start as the 10 will be VdW who is atrocious. Also I was very wrong on Thompson thought watching the 20s he wouldn't be good enough for club rugby but I can't see him being good enough at international level. I think Chamberlain is the future.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:39 am I think there is every chance they play Hogg at 10 and Jones into the starting XV. To be honest I think I'd be ok with that.

Price is either so incredibly thick or just panics in the last few minutes. Kicking the ball away, not even a chip like Hogg which was daft too, but actually kicking it away two matches in a row is just dense.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:15 am

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:39 am I think there is every chance they play Hogg at 10 and Jones into the starting XV. To be honest I think I'd be ok with that.

Price is either so incredibly thick or just panics in the last few minutes. Kicking the ball away, not even a chip like Hogg which was daft too, but actually kicking it away two matches in a row is just dense.

Hogg is brilliant at loads of things, but is passing the ball one of them? Not something he needs to do that much as a 15. And the majority will be short passes during a backs move rather than longer distributing passes that a 10 has to give again and again.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:23 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:21 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:16 pm What's Gatland doing after the Lions?

Not coming to Scotland I hope.

Wouldn't have to put up with this piss if he did.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:23 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:21 pm

Not coming to Scotland I hope.

Wouldn't have to put up with this piss if he did.

On reflection I might be coming round to this... I don't think I'm quite ready to ditch Townsend yet but I accept that might be an emotional response.

Thinking it over last night and this morning it struck me that I have started to accept that we are going to lose tight games. My wife actually came to check on me yesterday as I wasn't making my usual noise and all she had heard all match was a laugh. Even when we drew level I didn't get out of my seat, first reaction was "you know whats coming". And it did, although a little sooner than I was expecting.

We do seem to be quite unlucky with injuries and that affects us more than other teams but there is a bit missing and it has been missing for too long now, winning those tight games. I guess it is progress of a sort that we are making these games so close now that we would have lost by 10-15 points in years gone by, but again, it has stalled. Maybe we just have too many players that know they will not get dropped.

We need a bit of a fear factor and for all the good that Toony brings I don't get the impression that is there at all. You have a few players like Hogg, Watson, Ritchie, that will run through walls to win but maybe not enough of the others have that.

So, maybe we do need a Gatland like figure. What we also need is a player that the rest of the players are terrified of, a Martin Johnson, AWJ, Paul O'Connel. When was the last time we really had that sort of player, early 90's?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:23 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:21 pm

Not coming to Scotland I hope.

Wouldn't have to put up with this piss if he did.

On reflection I might be coming round to this... I don't think I'm quite ready to ditch Townsend yet but I accept that might be an emotional response.

Thinking it over last night and this morning it struck me that I have started to accept that we are going to lose tight games. My wife actually came to check on me yesterday as I wasn't making my usual noise and all she had heard all match was a laugh. Even when we drew level I didn't get out of my seat, first reaction was "you know whats coming". And it did, although a little sooner than I was expecting.

We do seem to be quite unlucky with injuries and that affects us more than other teams but there is a bit missing and it has been missing for too long now, winning those tight games. I guess it is progress of a sort that we are making these games so close now that we would have lost by 10-15 points in years gone by, but again, it has stalled. Maybe we just have too many players that know they will not get dropped.

We need a bit of a fear factor and for all the good that Toony brings I don't get the impression that is there at all. You have a few players like Hogg, Watson, Ritchie, that will run through walls to win but maybe not enough of the others have that.

So, maybe we do need a Gatland like figure. What we also need is a player that the rest of the players are terrified of, a Martin Johnson, AWJ, Paul O'Connel. When was the last time we really had that sort of player, early 90's?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:46 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:23 pm

Wouldn't have to put up with this piss if he did.

On reflection I might be coming round to this... I don't think I'm quite ready to ditch Townsend yet but I accept that might be an emotional response.

Thinking it over last night and this morning it struck me that I have started to accept that we are going to lose tight games. My wife actually came to check on me yesterday as I wasn't making my usual noise and all she had heard all match was a laugh. Even when we drew level I didn't get out of my seat, first reaction was "you know whats coming". And it did, although a little sooner than I was expecting.

We do seem to be quite unlucky with injuries and that affects us more than other teams but there is a bit missing and it has been missing for too long now, winning those tight games. I guess it is progress of a sort that we are making these games so close now that we would have lost by 10-15 points in years gone by, but again, it has stalled. Maybe we just have too many players that know they will not get dropped.

We need a bit of a fear factor and for all the good that Toony brings I don't get the impression that is there at all. You have a few players like Hogg, Watson, Ritchie, that will run through walls to win but maybe not enough of the others have that.

So, maybe we do need a Gatland like figure. What we also need is a player that the rest of the players are terrified of, a Martin Johnson, AWJ, Paul O'Connel. When was the last time we really had that sort of player, early 90's?

Yes I think we all knew it was coming. The disappointment was how poor and sloppy we were for me.

The question I ask myself is do we continue to make the same mistakes, continue the mental fragility and continue the illdiscipline if Gatland is in charge?

I don't think we do.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:49 pm It’s also worth saying that although the line out was a horror show we also conceded 14 turnovers, the majority of them on the ground, that’s bloody rubbish.

I can’t remember a game where I got a feeling of dread every time we went into contact.

When we were hammering away at their line in the 2nd half I couldn’t understand why we weren’t taking the scrum option instead of a tap and allowing them to fan out. Every time we got the ball off a set piece we were getting through them in the backs. Seemed a bit daft although I appreciate scrums can be a bit of a lottery

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:53 am Saturday was gutting, after the first 10 minutes there only looked like being 1 winner & we did well to battle our way back into the match but, we give away far too many points from the kick off & this is something that's happened time and time again. Combined with a woeful lineout & there was only ever going to be 1 winner on Saturday.

The injuries ought to force Toonie's hand - Skinner has to start against Italy and I don't see how he can avoid calling up both Dobie and Thompson. Even assuming VDW is fit, to train with only one recognised 10 in the squad is crazy. I think in an ideal world, Thompson would get another year or so to bed himself in as first choice at Glasgow but, we're in a break glass in case of emergency situation - he's been playing out of his skin and VDW is average and hasn't been playing. Even if he doesn't start, he should be on the bench. Dobie has also done more than enough to earn his chance - even against Italy I'd be wary about having both on the pitch at the same time so, I'd start one & bench the other. Townsend clearly doesn't trust Steele so why waste a bench spot on a 27 year old rather than an extremely promising 19 year old? Far better to give him the experience - same goes for Cherry, a solid 30 year old who isn't going to get any better, why not take a punt on Ashman?

We're down to 4th/5th choice at both 2 and 10, and, with Horne out, it's probably between Steele and Dobie for 3rd/4th choice, in all cases, I'd far rather see us take a punt on promising youngsters

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:49 pm It’s also worth saying that although the line out was a horror show we also conceded 14 turnovers, the majority of them on the ground, that’s bloody rubbish.

I can’t remember a game where I got a feeling of dread every time we went into contact.

When we were hammering away at their line in the 2nd half I couldn’t understand why we weren’t taking the scrum option instead of a tap and allowing them to fan out. Every time we got the ball off a set piece we were getting through them in the backs. Seemed a bit daft although I appreciate scrums can be a bit of a lottery

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:26 pm

If Russell failed his HIA I'd have assumed he would've been dropped as you can't have a 6 day turnaround.

Hoyland is the interesting one. He doesn't really play wing for Edinburgh anymore he's a 15. So are we thinking Hogg 10 Maitland 15 Hoyland 23?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:23 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:21 pm

Not coming to Scotland I hope.

Wouldn't have to put up with this piss if he did.

On reflection I might be coming round to this... I don't think I'm quite ready to ditch Townsend yet but I accept that might be an emotional response.

Thinking it over last night and this morning it struck me that I have started to accept that we are going to lose tight games. My wife actually came to check on me yesterday as I wasn't making my usual noise and all she had heard all match was a laugh. Even when we drew level I didn't get out of my seat, first reaction was "you know whats coming". And it did, although a little sooner than I was expecting.

We do seem to be quite unlucky with injuries and that affects us more than other teams but there is a bit missing and it has been missing for too long now, winning those tight games. I guess it is progress of a sort that we are making these games so close now that we would have lost by 10-15 points in years gone by, but again, it has stalled. Maybe we just have too many players that know they will not get dropped.

We need a bit of a fear factor and for all the good that Toony brings I don't get the impression that is there at all. You have a few players like Hogg, Watson, Ritchie, that will run through walls to win but maybe not enough of the others have that.

So, maybe we do need a Gatland like figure. What we also need is a player that the rest of the players are terrified of, a Martin Johnson, AWJ, Paul O'Connel. When was the last time we really had that sort of player, early 90's?

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:35 pm Zander? Did both the Ireland game and Ospreys game played this weekend count towards his suspension?

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:36 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:26 pm

If Russell failed his HIA I'd have assumed he would've been dropped as you can't have a 6 day turnaround.

Hoyland is the interesting one. He doesn't really play wing for Edinburgh anymore he's a 15. So are we thinking Hogg 10 Maitland 15 Hoyland 23?

Wouldn't think Hoyland would take that jersey off Jones.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:13 pm Apparently Toony has already said he won’t be picking Chamberlain or Thompson - “there are other players we will look to first”

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:13 pm Apparently Toony has already said he won’t be picking Chamberlain or Thompson - “there are other players we will look to first”

Wait, are we surprised that an international coach isn't going to be picking a fly half - either one - who's had a handful of senior starts? Glasgow didn't even give Thompson the whole game against Zebre the other week.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:03 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:13 pm Apparently Toony has already said he won’t be picking Chamberlain or Thompson - “there are other players we will look to first”

Wait, are we surprised that an international coach isn't going to be picking a fly half - either one - who's had a handful of senior starts? Glasgow didn't even give Thompson the whole game against Zebre the other week.

No, not surprised. But in my endless wisdom as an established international rugby coach rather than webchat keyboard warrior, I'd definitely take Thompson over Jaco for the Italy game.

Looks like it will be Russell anyway.

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:13 pm Apparently Toony has already said he won’t be picking Chamberlain or Thompson - “there are other players we will look to first”

Wait, are we surprised that an international coach isn't going to be picking a fly half - either one - who's had a handful of senior starts? Glasgow didn't even give Thompson the whole game against Zebre the other week.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:26 pm

If Russell failed his HIA I'd have assumed he would've been dropped as you can't have a 6 day turnaround.

Hoyland is the interesting one. He doesn't really play wing for Edinburgh anymore he's a 15. So are we thinking Hogg 10 Maitland 15 Hoyland 23?

Jock42 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:08 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:26 pm

If Russell failed his HIA I'd have assumed he would've been dropped as you can't have a 6 day turnaround.

Hoyland is the interesting one. He doesn't really play wing for Edinburgh anymore he's a 15. So are we thinking Hogg 10 Maitland 15 Hoyland 23?

VDW will be fit won't he?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:50 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:36 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:26 pm

If Russell failed his HIA I'd have assumed he would've been dropped as you can't have a 6 day turnaround.

Hoyland is the interesting one. He doesn't really play wing for Edinburgh anymore he's a 15. So are we thinking Hogg 10 Maitland 15 Hoyland 23?

Wouldn't think Hoyland would take that jersey off Jones.

I'm assuming Jones starts at 13.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:45 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:50 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:36 pm

Wouldn't think Hoyland would take that jersey off Jones.

I'm assuming Jones starts at 13.

Then Harris has the 23 shirt. Although Harris will be in the 13 shirt.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:49 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:45 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:50 pm

I'm assuming Jones starts at 13.

Then Harris has the 23 shirt. Although Harris will be in the 13 shirt.

Jones was 22 Vs Ireland with Graham 23. It seems unlikely that Hogg is picked as the only 10 so maybe Lang 22 with Harris back to Gloucester.

Or probably Jaco does start but Hoyland in the squad doesn't make much sense!

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:42 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:49 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:45 pm

Then Harris has the 23 shirt. Although Harris will be in the 13 shirt.

Jones was 22 Vs Ireland with Graham 23. It seems unlikely that Hogg is picked as the only 10 so maybe Lang 22 with Harris back to Gloucester.

Or probably Jaco does start but Hoyland in the squad doesn't make much sense!

Harris will be starting. Unless there has been something said by the coaches in a presser. Harris is thought of much better inside rugby than Scotland fans give him credit for.

With Russell seemingly fit, or at least in the squad, we may see the same bench arrangement as last week.

Tattie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:20 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:17 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:47 pm

I think mentality is the issue. When I look at Ireland and Wales I generally see players who are not that much more capable than us. But I do see lads that are hard as nails who you would want with you in the trenches.
By contrast, Scotland, with the exception of Watson and Hogg look like rear echelon gym bunnies who look the part but don't have the grit for the front line nastiness.

This is what I think. What I can’t understand is this: Wales have pro teams who are generally as mediocre as ours, and underperform at European level too. Yet they are a game away from a GS and we are nowhere. If this isn’t down to coaching, what is it?

100% agree. Even in recent years when Glasgow we’re flying and regularly spanking the Welsh sides, as soon as those same players put on their respective international jerseys, for some unknown reason the Welsh upper their game and the Scots... well. Has to be coaching - physical and mental.

Butterfingers wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:32 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:20 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:17 pm

This is what I think. What I can’t understand is this: Wales have pro teams who are generally as mediocre as ours, and underperform at European level too. Yet they are a game away from a GS and we are nowhere. If this isn’t down to coaching, what is it?

100% agree. Even in recent years when Glasgow we’re flying and regularly spanking the Welsh sides, as soon as those same players put on their respective international jerseys, for some unknown reason the Welsh upper their game and the Scots... well. Has to be coaching - physical and mental.

If you pooled all of Wales rugby resources into 2 professional teams then we'd do much better at club level.

It would obviously not be a good thing for the national side though.