NPR

Congratulations on being a sociopath.

I used to teach. The vast majority of the families whose kids were on free school meals were not profligate scum buying scratch cards and fags instead of feeding their kids, they were hard working people in low paid jobs who often struggled to make ends meet.

I have friends who are social workers or otherwise employed in the social care sector, shockingly, their experience doesn't seem to align with yours... They've also managed to refrain from becoming empathy vacuums.

As an aside, and I know we've covered this before, your anecdotal experience does not define the wider picture, nor is it superior to the anecdotal experience of others, so stop dropping it as though it's some kind of trump card. Assuming its even real.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:28 pm https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit

Marcus Rashford paid himself £4,978 from MUCS Enterprises Ltd in 2018, but gave himself an unsecured, interest free advance of £395,808.

Directors Loan rather than taking a taxable Salary or Dividend.

Remember that when he calls for Taxpayers Money to be spent.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:40 am We have a situation where up to a third of Universal credit claimants are in work, likewise a similar proportion of foodbank users working. Trussell Trust is one of three big foodbank providers and they gave out 1.9 million parcels during the year to 31st of March 2020.

Does anyone really think people are spending their dough on BetFred and takeaway pizzas, whilst letting their children go hungry?


I always thought that the Tories were good at spin, dog knows they got a lot of people to vote for them, but this school meals issue is a PR disaster for them, obviously not to the wing nuts who can't see beyond their own privet hedge, but out here in the real world this plays very badly for them, and all for not a lot of money.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:37 pm

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:37 pm

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:57 am

frodder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:53 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:59 am

And if they are unable to do so for whatever reason, how would you suggest we deal with the situation?

Point of order: Did Bimbo say that?

Bottom of the last page

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:06 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:40 am We have a situation where up to a third of Universal credit claimants are in work, likewise a similar proportion of foodbank users working. Trussell Trust is one of three big foodbank providers and they gave out 1.9 million parcels during the year to 31st of March 2020.

Does anyone really think people are spending their dough on BetFred and takeaway pizzas, whilst letting their children go hungry?


I always thought that the Tories were good at spin, dog knows they got a lot of people to vote for them, but this school meals issue is a PR disaster for them, obviously not to the wing nuts who can't see beyond their own privet hedge, but out here in the real world this plays very badly for them, and all for not a lot of money.

This is an issue that does my head in. How can, for instance, a full time employee of Tesco which makes 100's of millions in profit every year, be so low paid that they need government assistance to live. It's crazy.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:09 pm Funny how there's money to subsidise MPs to the tune of ~£4.5 million per annum for their parliamentary food and alcohol

Shirley MPs on £74k + expenses, benefits, second home, free transport & bribes can afford to feed themselves?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:18 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:12 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:08 pm



The answer isn’t likely to be more benefits.

So what should the answer be?

Funnily enough, that's the closest I've ever seen him to being right. No, the answer isn't more benefits, it's to make employers pay an actual living wage to their employees and if that takes a bite out of the profits, so fucking be it. Until our legislative branch grows a spine and tackles that, the state needs to foot the bill.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:37 pm

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:34 pm That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

Feed your own children ffs.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:45 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:34 pm That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

but

Feed your own children ffs.

isn't

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:37 pm

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:43 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm


There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

Hard evidence on the reasons for food bank use, and in particular its increase, is limited, but there is some evidence that a good proportion of food bank use is due to temporary changes in circumstances, rather than long term poverty. These includes changes to, and delays in receiving, benefits. The introduction of universal credit has seen lots of people experiencing long delays in receiving benefits, or reductions in their benefits, which have resulted in them using food banks for a time. Once these changes in benefits are sorted out, they stop needing to make use of food banks.

I do wonder as well if the gig economy is a contributory factor. The minimum wage is fine, but if the numbers of hours work you do each week is variable because you are don’t have a full time job, this could result in the need to sometimes make use of foodbanks.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:47 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:45 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:34 pm That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

but

Feed your own children ffs.

isn't

No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:09 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:47 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:45 pm

but



isn't

No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

yes, facile

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:12 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:09 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:47 pm No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

yes, facile

Again, I’ll make the point of people looking after their own children that you seem to think is optional.

And I’m the unreasonable cunt.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:17 pm anyway, back on track, fear mongering stats for today

21,242 cases
189 Deaths

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:12 pm Little wonder that you're able to project your own lack of empathy onto these parents and then think you're in anyway different from them when you're both seemingly happy to 'choose' that they go hungry.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:03 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

I think it's not just people who are in debt, those who are not able to build up any savings (see last post) are vulnerable.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:52 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:03 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

I think it's not just people who are in debt, those who are not able to build up any savings (see last post) are vulnerable.

It's the consumer society/economy that we have built or been part of for the last few decades, personal savings in the UK are among the lowest in the Western world and we are highly geared comparatively. This for me shows a fundamental weakness with how we are structured, that and such a proportion of our incomes are taken up with housing, as a proportion of our income food has never been lower and yet people are having to resort to food banks.

All in all its a mess with no easy fixes.

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:07 pm Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:55 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm


There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

I've just been on a net income calculator (they do the allowance for tax rates etc) after stoppages a forty hour week on minimum wage brings in almost £16k.
Average rent in the UK is very difficult to calculate as it varies so much, London is almost not worth including because it's such an outlier, but there is a BBC site from almost exactly two years ago that states the average in England for a one bedroom home is £600 per month, £7 200 per year, we're left with £8 800.
Average food shopping bill for one person is £25 per week , that lowers our total to £7 600. GAs and Electricity come in at £2 400, leaving us £5 200, the lowest council tax band in my area is £1 300, water is about £400. So £3 500 left.

I've been very conservative (there's a first time for everything) in my estimates, the estimated costs on the Money Advice Service site for living alone are much higher.

Does this person walk to work or get public transport? Do they need a car to get to an out of the way place or to work at unsociable hours? We'd have to allow for that. Do they need a phone? Broadband, TV licence, clothing, dentists appointments. This doesn't allow for any extras or emergencies.

I think our three and half grand would disappear quickly.

Yes this is a gross oversimplification and yes people can save by living with others, but I can see why people in work on low wages need extra help.

edited to correct terrible sums

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:34 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:09 pm Funny how there's money to subsidise MPs to the tune of ~£4.5 million per annum for their parliamentary food and alcohol

Shirley MPs on £74k + expenses, benefits, second home, free transport & bribes can afford to feed themselves?

That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:45 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:07 pm Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

That's fucking moronic

The answer for me is to keep increasing the min wage so employers are paying a proper wage and we reduce what is in effect Gov subsidies to private sector in form of in work benefits.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:09 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:45 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:07 pm Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

That's fucking moronic

From what I can gather supermarkets are being restricted from selling clothes so that small retailers who have to shut are not losing business.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just it’s not bogroll and bread only.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:38 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:09 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:45 pm

That's fucking moronic

From what I can gather supermarkets are being restricted from selling clothes so that small retailers who have to shut are not losing business.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just it’s not bogroll and bread only.

At least there's some logic behind it, however tenuous.

In South Africa, we had the situation where Government outlawed the selling of open-toed sandals (shoes were allowed).

The irrationality of some of the regulations spoke of the controlling instincts of officials which served to undermine public obedience in the measures and lose support for them.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:57 am Remember folks Bimbo would rather kids starve so that he can continue afford his nice cars...