NPR

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:39 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:03 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:36 pm

I didn’t say anyone was. Where are you getting that from?

You said you are anti-racist (well done you) then linked that statement with the comment that I would be offended by you being anti-racist.

Why would I be offended that you're anti-racist?

I don’t know, I said if you were. Why are you offended by anything on this thread? Because if you’re not then I don’t see why you’re going on about this.

I can’t help your over reaction.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:58 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:39 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:03 pm



You said you are anti-racist (well done you) then linked that statement with the comment that I would be offended by you being anti-racist.

Why would I be offended that you're anti-racist?

I don’t know, I said if you were. Why are you offended by anything on this thread? Because if you’re not then I don’t see why you’re going on about this.

I can’t help your over reaction.

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal question specifically to me.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:01 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:58 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:39 pm

I don’t know, I said if you were. Why are you offended by anything on this thread? Because if you’re not then I don’t see why you’re going on about this.

I can’t help your over reaction.

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal question specifically to me.

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:06 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:01 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:58 pm

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal question specifically to me.

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

And there we have it.

Fella, you're clearly a cunt, just own it.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:20 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:06 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:01 pm

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

And there we have it.

Fella, you're clearly a cunt, just own it.

What, the point we covered a page ago.

Do fuck off. You’re reaching bimbot levels of fucktard.

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:37 am Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:26 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:37 am Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

............almost as much shit as on the average Saffer thread when you lot are arguing among yourselves

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:42 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:26 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:37 am Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

............almost as much shit as on the average Saffer thread when you lot are arguing among yourselves

We are a special breed indeed, to us it's second nature. I hold the rest of the world to a different standard though.

Openside wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:37 pm Why is the R word even being mentioned on this thread its got F'all do do with discrimination.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:32 am Racism has F all to do with discrimination?

Some top level thinking there.

assfly wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:20 am I don't see this as a race or racist issue. The problem here is how a culture and heritage is being depicted. Those are different things in my book.

assfly wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:20 am I don't see this as a race or racist issue. The problem here is how a culture and heritage is being depicted. Those are different things in my book.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:47 pm Are Exeter Chiefs being racist by using their Chiefs logo, and by extension are supporters of Exeter Chiefs racists for supporting their team?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:18 pm Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:20 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:18 pm Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

It seems to me they are caricaturing a culture, not a race.

I haven't seen skin colour been mentioned anywhere.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:20 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:18 pm Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

It seems to me they are caricaturing a culture, not a race.

I haven't seen skin colour been mentioned anywhere.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:39 am Racism isn't always about skin colour.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:22 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:39 am Racism isn't always about skin colour.

Perhaps, but who gets to decide that?

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:27 am So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:27 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:22 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:39 am Racism isn't always about skin colour.

Perhaps, but who gets to decide that?

So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:34 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:27 am So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

This is the problem with this debate. People automatically create the worst possible scenario and ask if it is racist or not, forgetting that there are many grey areas in between.

I can't declare if that is racist or not as But I don't think it's helpful when the conversation is so binary.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:41 am Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:50 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:41 am Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

These are my views on racism. I was born and raised a white in southern Africa where racism has torn apart countries, started wars and killed people and the impact of racism is still felt today and will be for future generations.

That's why I see a distinction between someone being stupid, offensive, ignorant and someone being racist. If everything that is offensive is classed as racism then it becomes a word we are so used to and dilutes the real damage that racism can do.

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:11 am I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:20 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:11 am I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

Niegs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:15 am It's a lack of empathy, isn't it? You see people questioning the whole issue with "It's just a bit of fun" and similar statements.

But there's a history indigenous North Americans are still trying to recover from, which includes what some would argue as cultural genocide; having been forced into often church-run schools that sought to eradicate their language and way of life. Part of that recent history included being depicted, with 'good' intentions in many cases, as a warrior race. Today, in wanting to be seen as rich and diverse living cultures, activists and many less-vocal supporters would rather the world see them for what they were - as people, not as caricatures.

To me, those who say "it's just a bit of fun" have no empathy for that stance. The majority probably aren't 'racists' but they certainly don't care about the desire for people to see themselves represented with accuracy and dignity. And as much as some also say things like "we're honouring them" with the 'positive' representation, do they know anything about the real and diverse aspects of any unique indigenous group beyond how they were portrayed in Westerns? I doubt it.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:41 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:34 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:27 am So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

This is the problem with this debate. People automatically create the worst possible scenario and ask if it is racist or not, forgetting that there are many grey areas in between.

I can't declare if that is racist or not as But I don't think it's helpful when the conversation is so binary.

Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

Niegs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:15 am It's a lack of empathy, isn't it? You see people questioning the whole issue with "It's just a bit of fun" and similar statements.

But there's a history indigenous North Americans are still trying to recover from, which includes what some would argue as cultural genocide; having been forced into often church-run schools that sought to eradicate their language and way of life. Part of that recent history included being depicted, with 'good' intentions in many cases, as a warrior race. Today, in wanting to be seen as rich and diverse living cultures, activists and many less-vocal supporters would rather the world see them for what they were - as people, not as caricatures.

To me, those who say "it's just a bit of fun" have no empathy for that stance. The majority probably aren't 'racists' but they certainly don't care about the desire for people to see themselves represented with accuracy and dignity. And as much as some also say things like "we're honouring them" with the 'positive' representation, do they know anything about the real and diverse aspects of any unique indigenous group beyond how they were portrayed in Westerns? I doubt it.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:45 pm
Honest question - will anybody in the new world even know what a Native American was/looked like 50 years from now?

Niegs wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:07 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:45 pm
Honest question - will anybody in the new world even know what a Native American was/looked like 50 years from now?

Sure, why not? Many still live on Reservations and I've read that birth rates there (in parts of Canada, at least) tend to be a little higher than the national average.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:20 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:11 am I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

MoreOrLess wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:03 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:20 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:11 am I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

Is racism in the eye of the beholder?

I think that if you're mocking a trait that you believe is distinct to an ethnic group then you're being racist. It doesn't matter if someone in that ethnic group finds if funny, or even if you're part of that ethnic group yourself. Those things just influence the consequence of your racist act.

If someone physically attacks you then you've been assaulted. It's up to you whether you laugh or press charges, but that doesn't change the fact that someone has just punched you in the face.