The Official English Rugby Thread

[Saint]

Beautiful line

[Oxbow]

Yes, good stuff. Not having a front (or even second) line kicker might cost us here.

As I type that we arse it up again.

[Saint]

I thought incredibly harsh on us not to get the penalty for not releasing

[Saint]

Another gorgeous line from Dingwall

[Paddington Bear]

Fantastic game

[sockwithaticket]

I really hope they can keep this pace for the duration, frenetic stuff.

[Paddington Bear]

Wow! Like watching a sevens game

[Saint]

Sleighthome has serious gas

[Tichtheid]

This is fun

[sockwithaticket]

That's twice Green's not made a good decision on the breakaway, should've chipped or held on there.

Fair play to Sleightholme making the most of the opportunity.

This is rugby.

[Tichtheid]

Big Taq will run through five defenders, but he won’t outpace them

[Paddington Bear]

This is fun

Best way to describe it. No dog in the fight but thoroughly entertaining

[Tichtheid]

Shame about the pass from Brown.

Marcus Smith can open up a defence seemingly at will

[sockwithaticket]

Can't believe there's still a quarter to play. Those on the pitch will be glad of the lineout and chance for a breather.

[Saint]

Taylor's pass is such a downgrade from James

[Saint]

So fucking niaive

[Saint]

We deserve to lose this. Shockingly stupid decision making

[sockwithaticket]

Do get the feeling that Quins are going to negotiate this period.

[Tichtheid]

Saints have played like drains since they went two men up

[Oxbow]

Big useless lump of shite.

[sockwithaticket]

Naiyarovoro is almost comically useless.

[Paddington Bear]

Northampton’s execution has been appalling, but they’re still in this

[Saint]

So so stupid

[sockwithaticket]

[SaintK]

Northampton’s execution has been appalling, but they’re still in this

Nah!! And never were in the 2nd half even against 13 men

[Saint]

He's not happy and rightly so

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Northampton’s execution has been appalling, but they’re still in this

Nah!! And never were in the 2nd half even against 13 men

Quins line speed and defence was pretty solid, even when down to 13, so we just about hung on. Still too many penalties but at least they mostly came from Saints pressure, rather than England style braindead player mistakes.

Most of the 2nd half was pretty heart stopping though - feels like a bullet dodged.

[Saint]

Northampton’s execution has been appalling, but they’re still in this

Nah!! And never were in the 2nd half even against 13 men

Quins line speed and defence was pretty solid, even when down to 13, so we just about hung on. Still too many penalties but at least they mostly came from Saints pressure, rather than England style braindead player mistakes.

Most of the 2nd half was pretty heart stopping though - feels like a bullet dodged.

A bullet fired from a wonky gun with a dirty barrel

[fishfoodie]

What were the cards for today ? Same kind of stuff we've seen so far ?

[Oxbow]

What were the cards for today ? Same kind of stuff we've seen so far ?

Cumulative penalties.

[fishfoodie]

What were the cards for today ? Same kind of stuff we've seen so far ?

Cumulative penalties.

[Saint]

What were the cards for today ? Same kind of stuff we've seen so far ?

Cumulative penalties.

Ultimately, quins worked out they could infringe at will because Saints lacked even 1 brain cell that could exploit a 1 man, let alone 2 man, advantage from 10 metres out.

[fishfoodie]

Cumulative penalties.

Ultimately, quins worked out they could infringe at will because Saints lacked even 1 brain cell that could exploit a 1 man, let alone 2 man, advantage from 10 metres out.

Soon to be known as the; 'Jone's Gambit', in the coaches handbook

[Hal Jordan]

Speaking of our Dear Leader, a few choice words from his latest "Fuck off" interview.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56314459

Including this

But when asked why he has struggled to build depth in certain positions, such as number eight, scrum-half, fly-half and full-back, Jones suggested he is somewhat hamstrung by the make-up of the talent pool in England, with better players coming through in some positions compared to others.

"We've just got to make do with what we have, try and find the best ones and nurture them, and give them the right sort of development so when they do play for England they go and play 50 caps."

[Rhubarb & Custard]

And that's taken as being a bad thing? Unless you're constantly squinting to ensure you don't quite read what's said accurately and you're actively looking to be offended that seems a perfectly reasonable answer

[sockwithaticket]

It's either something he genuinely believes, which would be concerning given some of the talent he apparently ignores, or he's giving a deliberately generic answer which doesn't really engage with the positional specifics of the question because he knows he's fucked up by ignoring or rejecting too early some of the available talent.

[Margin__Walker]

He's probably got a point of sorts at 9. Everyone has their favourites, but I don't think you'd be reaching to say there's been a dearth of world class talent emerging there in the last decade or so for England. Doesn't excuse Youngs getting quite as many caps though

10 and 8, not so much. Marcus Smith would be involved in pretty much any other international set up. They even got him in as an apprentice and then never bothered keeping him around. At 8, there just isn't another Billy V clone. There are decent 8s if you have the back row balance.

The England environment has become very comfortable for a cohort of senior players. It's very hard for them to get dropped. Justifiable when things are going well. When they aren't, it starts to look pretty stale.

[sockwithaticket]

I still don't get how Ben Spencer was good enough to be flown out for a world cup final and now can't even make the shadow squad.

Also a perceived lack of talent isn't a good reason to not play or pick alternatives. They might not be as good as Eddie wants or thinks they need to be, but they're who exist and who would need to be called upon in the event of Youngs getting injured. He's been astonishingly durable, but there is always the chance he goes down and none of the potential replacements even have a full half of international rugby behind them. Unless we drag Wigglesworth back I think Robson's got the longest stint with 25 minutes odd against Italy this 6 Nations

[Dinsdale Piranha]

He's trying to argue that there aren't any other good players in certain positions, which is clearly bollox. The biggest issue is that the positions where he keeps sticking with substandard players are the key playmaker positions.

When a team are under pressure and it's falling apart you look to leadership from your senior players. The problem with England is that it's usually the senior players that are causing the issue in the first place.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's not clearly bollocks, because there aren't proven contenders for lots of positions. There are some players who've looked good at club level, from which we can speculate they might have it in them to go on to perform at test level.

The likes of Dombrandt, Simmonds (either one), a Piers O'Conor, whoever your likely contenders are (and whether based on a long held view or the most recent game you saw on TV) are at best only maybes.

Over several years we should have been looking at other 9s (relying on Heinz and Wigglesworth wasn't something I liked at the time) and 12s. This specific 6N with the Covid restrictions, the reduced training, the reduced squad size, and in a 6N that's already seen game time for Genge, Stuart, Hill, Robson, Lawrence, Willis and so on is a tricky one, we can't just say other players who haven't played (sometimes ever at test level) are inherently better just because some people equate change with improvements, and really how many more inexperienced players would you want in a side. Not least because what if you do make further changes (ignoring the Covid situation) and the side lose again, which is to say if throwing the baby out with the bathwater doesn't work do you then rinse and repeat, because at that point you've not only lost control of the side you've also trounced the EPS. Now perhaps the EPS should be trounced, but it is the construct we have, and it's proved better than just picking ad-hoc from the club scene

Certainly with hindsight allowing the Sarries players to stay in the EPS has proved a mistake, but at the point that decision was taken (a decision that like most had good and bad parts to it) Covid wasn't something that wasn't looming, and that with the now reduced squad size has worked out badly for us. And I'm loathe to be too critical of a decision that was at least in part taken for good reasons that's been skewered by some really unforeseen events.

France did bring a lot of new talent into their side, but (a) France were struggling so made sweeping changes from being in a weak position not from being 6N champions and WC finalists and (b) the raft of changes France brought in really upped their power and pace, and we don't have the same options to up power and pace across the board, indeed we'd probably lose some