NPR

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:18 pm**

Ali Cadoo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:15 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 pmDon't see why, the UK left, the EU rules are clear, access to the single market has to be on their terms, its their market,
I don't know who you think you are, bringing cold, hard facts into the argument, but if you think that Brexshitters are going to let you get away with that sort of angle without whining like bitches, well - you, sir, are mistaken.

oops my bad, maybe i should put myself in the sin bin

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:33 pm**

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:50 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:45 pm Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.
There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.
Don't see why, the UK left, the EU rules are clear, access to the single market has to be on their terms, its their market, but wasn't it supposed to be the easiest deal to make in history? oh thats right the dastardly Europeans won't give in to the UK's demands.

I won't argue with the EU
setting its conditions for tariff free access, but could never see the Brexit brigade signing up to follow EU rules. Whatever view you have on Brexit, the government has the right to negotiate on its preferred terms too.
If a new government takes charge they can change that approach.
(I'm trying to be balanced here)

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:02 pm**

Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:50 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:45 pm Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.
There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.

I don't think you can compromise on sovereignty as that's why the UK left in the first place. e.g Demands to fish in UK waters in perpetuity with quotas controlled by the EU under EU law for disputes. That is giving away international sovereign rights.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:34 pm**

MSG# wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:02 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:50 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:45 pm Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.
There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.
I don't think you can compromise on sovereignty as that's why the UK left in the first place. e.g Demands to fish in UK waters in perpetuity with quotas controlled by the EU under EU law for disputes. That is giving away international sovereign rights.

The fine, have the fishing waters, they will have fuck all customers, The UK doesnt consume anywhere near enough fish to sustain the industry and the EU wont be buying at the prices they want them to, outcome, fishing industry fucked again, so yes you win the battle but royally lose the war.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:50 pm**

And we want to consume fish that aren't in our waters, and 'our' fish often migrates into other waters where non British boats could well over fish if they don't get the deal they want. And as ever fishing remains a political problem that draws much more attention that it warrants

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm**

MSG# wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:02 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:50 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:45 pm Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.
There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.
I don't think you can compromise on sovereignty as that's why the UK left in the first place. e.g Demands to fish in UK waters in perpetuity with quotas controlled by the EU under EU law for disputes. That is giving away international sovereign rights.

The point is completely valid. What I'm interested in is the terms under which the British quota holders sold their quota to foreign vessels. Are these contracts tied to EU law & quotas? Are they time-limited or scope-limited? Who is liable for compensation to whom if they get changed? Do existing UK quota holders automatically get the new quotas from the UK government?

I see QCs lining up along the docksides of Hull to take the cases.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm**

lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm
MSG# wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:02 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:50 pm

There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.
I don't think you can compromise on sovereignty as that's why the UK left in the first place. e.g Demands to fish in UK waters in perpetuity with quotas controlled by the EU under EU law for disputes. That is giving away international sovereign rights.
The point is completely valid. What I'm interested in is the terms under which the British quota holders sold their quota to foreign vessels. Are these contracts tied to EU law & quotas? Are they time-limited or scope-limited? Who is liable for compensation to whom if they get changed? Do existing UK quota holders automatically get the new quotas from the UK government?

I see QCs lining up along the docksides of Hull to take the cases.

Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm**

Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm
lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm
MSG# wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:02 pm

I don't think you can compromise on sovereignty as that's why the UK left in the first place. e.g Demands to fish in UK waters in perpetuity with quotas controlled by the EU under EU law for disputes. That is giving away international sovereign rights.
The point is completely valid. What I'm interested in is the terms under which the British quota holders sold their quota to foreign vessels. Are these contracts tied to EU law & quotas? Are they time-limited or scope-limited? Who is liable for compensation to whom if they get changed? Do existing UK quota holders automatically get the new quotas from the UK government?

I see QCs lining up along the docksides of Hull to take the cases.
Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers

Means more to the EU. UK using it as a tactic to get a deal on financial trading which is everything to the UK

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:01 pm**

iarmhí wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm
lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm

The point is completely valid. What I'm interested in is the terms under which the British quota holders sold their quota to foreign vessels. Are these contracts tied to EU law & quotas? Are they time-limited or scope-limited? Who is liable for compensation to whom if they get changed? Do existing UK quota holders automatically get the new quotas from the UK government?

I see QCs lining up along the docksides of Hull to take the cases.
Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers
Means more to the EU. UK using it as a tactic to get a deal on financial trading which is everything to the UK

But neither side prepared to compromise. Nobody wins

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:02 pm**

iarmhí wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm
lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm

The point is completely valid. What I'm interested in is the terms under which the British quota holders sold their quota to foreign vessels. Are these contracts tied to EU law & quotas? Are they time-limited or scope-limited? Who is liable for compensation to whom if they get changed? Do existing UK quota holders automatically get the new quotas from the UK government?

I see QCs lining up along the docksides of Hull to take the cases.
Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers
Means more to the EU. UK using it as a tactic to get a deal on financial trading which is everything to the UK

that'd be like trading a chicken for a herd of horses.

There's no comparison between the values of whats on the table

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:05 pm**

Thread needs more Bimbo...

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:09 pm**

Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:01 pm
iarmhí wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm
Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers
Means more to the EU. UK using it as a tactic to get a deal on financial trading which is everything to the UK
But neither side prepared to compromise. Nobody wins

This is true within Europe, USA Russia and China all win though to some extent.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:12 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:02 pm
iarmhí wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm
Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers
Means more to the EU. UK using it as a tactic to get a deal on financial trading which is everything to the UK
that'd be like trading a chicken for a herd of horses.

There's no comparison between the values of whats on the table

If only fish were the issue

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:15 pm**

I want to be kinder to our UK brothers, they have to deal with Boris, Cummings and Farage. But I cannot condone gullible, racist morons.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm**

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:17 pm The whole issue around fishing rights is beyond me, the UK dont eat that much fish compared to the rest of the EU, the EU are the biggest customer so if no deal goes through we will have all that fish, a small domestic market and no buyers from the EU....real forward thinking by the bouffant buffoon.

Brits were massive seafood eaters until the cost started to soar a legacy of the Union. You can export fish to almost anywhere in the world. Nice piece of disengenous remoaning, have a thumbs up

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:51 pm**

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:53 am**

Aficionado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm
Brits were massive seafood eaters until the cost started to soar a legacy of the Union. You can export fish to almost anywhere in the world. Nice piece of disengenous remoaning, have a thumbs up

So when your fishermen can export less their costs will go down?

Will that model work for other industries like car manufacturing or textiles?

I don't think anyone has tried that approach before voluntarily.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:08 am**

iarmhí wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm
Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:35 pm
lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm

The point is completely valid. What I'm interested in is the terms under which the British quota holders sold their quota to foreign vessels. Are these contracts tied to EU law & quotas? Are they time-limited or scope-limited? Who is liable for compensation to whom if they get changed? Do existing UK quota holders automatically get the new quotas from the UK government?

I see QCs lining up along the docksides of Hull to take the cases.
Who knows, but quotas or not, EU vessels still need the legal right to fish in UK sovereign waters after Brexit - I would have thought that was obvious.
No one really cares about fish though, it's only for Express readers
Means more to the EU. UK using it as a tactic to get a deal on financial trading which is everything to the UK

If you consider Barnier's statement that resolution of the fisheries question in France's (EUs) favour is a prerequisite to any further talks, then you'd imagine the tactic isn't coming from the UK side.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:51 am**

Anyone remember what it was like before the European Common Fisheries Policy?

I half remember confrontations at sea between the Irish Navy rowing boat and massive Spanish trawlers in the '80s.

Obviously the Royal Navy will be far better equipped to police UK waters. Having politicised the issue already there could be some fun and games at sea without some amicable agreement on the issue.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:11 am**

Zig wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:53 am
Aficionado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm
Brits were massive seafood eaters until the cost started to soar a legacy of the Union. You can export fish to almost anywhere in the world. Nice piece of disengenous remoaning, have a thumbs up
So when your fishermen can export less their costs will go down?

Will that model work for other industries like car manufacturing or textiles?

I don't think anyone has tried that approach before voluntarily.

I'm sure that made sense to you, I've taken the liberty of labelling it waffle and binned it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:15 am**

It’s interesting that the quality of fish in some uk supermarkets has much improved during lockdown - diverted from the restaurant trade I guess. There will no doubt be numerous adjustments to markets as a result of Brexit. We export a lot of fish and seafood; but we import a lot too. Perhaps we will finish up with something much more sustainable.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:16 am**

Brits dont eat much of the fish we catch in UK waters, majority of it goes to export, vast majority to the EU. Huge % of shellfish goes abroad as soon as it is caught and is a big money earner. We tend to eat the likes of cod, haddock, salmon, etc which come from colder more northerly waters and which we import from the likes of Iceland, Norway, etc. Most of the UK quotas are owned by a small number of families/companies which they can sell on to whoever they want. Majority of English quotas have been sold on to companies based in EU countries such as France and Netherlands. Fishing is a little bit more complex than just taking back control. Personally, as a lover of all things shellfish, I would be delighted to have more and cheaper locally caught fish for sale here but the masses may well revolt when the cost of their cod and chips goes up and up.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 am**

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:16 am the masses may well revolt when the cost of their cod and chips goes up and up even higher than it bloody costs today!!

fixed

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:42 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 am
dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:16 am the masses may well revolt when the cost of their cod and chips goes up and up even higher than it bloody costs today!!

fixed

Ha ha ha

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:44 am**

Aficionado wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:11 am
Zig wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:53 am
Aficionado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm
Brits were massive seafood eaters until the cost started to soar a legacy of the Union. You can export fish to almost anywhere in the world. Nice piece of disengenous remoaning, have a thumbs up
So when your fishermen can export less their costs will go down?

Will that model work for other industries like car manufacturing or textiles?

I don't think anyone has tried that approach before voluntarily.
I'm sure that made sense to you, I've taken the liberty of labelling it waffle and binned it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:49 am**

Aficionado wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:11 am
I'm sure that made sense to you, I've taken the liberty of labelling it waffle and binned it.

It didn't make sense to me at all.

Why did costs go up?

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:59 am**

I think fishing is a Red herring (pun intended) because surely the amount of people’s livelihoods and revenue and tax involved , isn’t on par with financial services ? If they are comparable then I happy to be corrected as I’m less familiar with fishmen numbers and wages as I am to fund accountants and brokers.

It does sort of seem like Eu (France) is using a relatively small issue that only affects them and Spain perhaps, as a bargaining lever over a much more valuable and widespread geographical area industry that is financial services whose workers are in more countries. Are fishing and financial services comparable in any way in importance ?

Being just a bunch of numbers on a screen, then financial services will be a lot more fluid and flexable than where the fish swim.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:37 am**

Zig wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:51 am
Obviously the Royal Navy will be far better equipped to police UK waters. Having politicised the issue already there could be some fun and games at sea without some amicable agreement on the issue.

even before Brexit and Covid we barely had a navy worthy of the name, where we'd find the money to police our waters I don't know, why we'd try and spend a fortune to police our waters for a minor economic issue I don't know either.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:42 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 am
dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:16 am the masses may well revolt when the cost of their cod and chips goes up and up even higher than it bloody costs today!!

fixed

Not being so consumer oriented on cod would be useful, even before it's a fish we don't have much of ourselves. But that's not a Brexit issue.

If we cannot export to the rest of the world the same product we're currently exporting to the EU that might force down the price of some alternative to cod, but that might also reduce the number of boats at see if their markets disappear. I'd also add most fish and chip shops are terrible, they are to decent fish and chips as McDonalds is to a decent burger, though that's also not really a Brexit issue

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:09 am**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:37 am
Zig wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:51 am
Obviously the Royal Navy will be far better equipped to police UK waters. Having politicised the issue already there could be some fun and games at sea without some amicable agreement on the issue.
even before Brexit and Covid we barely had a navy worthy of the name, where we'd find the money to police our waters I don't know, why we'd try and spend a fortune to police our waters for a minor economic issue I don't know either.

Fear not, we can send

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:26 am**

Just to clarify with regards to dock lining, are we talking about proper silks or Twitter QCs here?

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:10 am**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:37 am
Zig wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:51 am
Obviously the Royal Navy will be far better equipped to police UK waters. Having politicised the issue already there could be some fun and games at sea without some amicable agreement on the issue.
even before Brexit and Covid we barely had a navy worthy of the name, where we'd find the money to police our waters I don't know, why we'd try and spend a fortune to police our waters for a minor economic issue I don't know either.

It's not a case of policing the waters, it's a case of recognising that they are UK waters, and not EU waters under EU law.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:22 am**

MSG# wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:10 am
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:37 am
Zig wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:51 am
Obviously the Royal Navy will be far better equipped to police UK waters. Having politicised the issue already there could be some fun and games at sea without some amicable agreement on the issue.
even before Brexit and Covid we barely had a navy worthy of the name, where we'd find the money to police our waters I don't know, why we'd try and spend a fortune to police our waters for a minor economic issue I don't know either.
It's not a case of policing the waters, it's a case of recognising that they are UK waters, and not EU waters under EU law.

Easy innit, Thrump has solved the problem for us

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:25 am**

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/leake ... JuiCNSEWs4

You cant help but feel that the Brit government underestimated the impact of Brexit.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:32 am**

La soule wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:25 am https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/leake ... JuiCNSEWs4

You cant help but feel that the Brit government underestimated the impact of Brexit.

The were pro remain
So you're incorrect

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm**

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:22 am
MSG# wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:10 am
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:37 am

even before Brexit and Covid we barely had a navy worthy of the name, where we'd find the money to police our waters I don't know, why we'd try and spend a fortune to police our waters for a minor economic issue I don't know either.
It's not a case of policing the waters, it's a case of recognising that they are UK waters, and not EU waters under EU law.
Easy innit, Thrump has solved the problem for us

'tis a better solution than recognising UK waters that we can't police in the name of taking back control

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:06 pm**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:22 am
MSG# wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:10 am

It's not a case of policing the waters, it's a case of recognising that they are UK waters, and not EU waters under EU law.
Easy innit, Thrump has solved the problem for us

'tis a better solution than recognising UK waters that we can't police in the name of taking back control

You have to wonder why the EU have fishing as part of the negotiations then? You are suggesting that they will have no problem taking whatever they want.
Weird

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:16 pm**

You have to wonder why the EU have fishing as part of the negotiations then?

To piss off Brexiters

Mostly.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:18 pm**

Longshanks wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:06 pm
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:22 am

Easy innit, Thrump has solved the problem for us

'tis a better solution than recognising UK waters that we can't police in the name of taking back control
You have to wonder why the EU have fishing as part of the negotiations then? You are suggesting that they will have no problem taking whatever they want.
Weird

I wonder because it doesn't seem that important to me, but clearly it is politically important in the UK, and it's even more so in the EU where the populace actually care about eating fish in addition to supporting 'their' fisherman. Hardly unusual however for emotion to influence policy areas

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:20 pm**

And I'm not suggesting they'll have no problems taking whatever they want, merely absent of a sensible deal I don't understand how we simply enforce a denial of access to our waters, and unless you can enforce a law/rule there are many who'd question the worth of such a law/rule

NPR

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