NPR

GogLais wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:40 am My row with someone whose off-lead dog was chasing sheep in the Yorkshire Dales has gone down in our family history.

Would it make for an interesting addition to the coat of arms ?

fishfoodie wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:11 pm

GogLais wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:40 am My row with someone whose off-lead dog was chasing sheep in the Yorkshire Dales has gone down in our family history.

Would it make for an interesting addition to the coat of arms ?

Ah well I’m not expecting a seat in the HoL. My main worry at the time was that an irate farmer would think it was my dog.

Just to be clear, I'm very fond of dogs, most of them are much better company than humans (especially Quins fans ) but I do despair at owners who don't pick up after their dogs.

Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:09 pm Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:09 pm Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:09 pm Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

My brother got awarded a Chair in Emerging Technologies by the Royal Academy of Engineering, which is supposed to be one way of helping remedy this, from what I understand. He says it's definitely a challenge to get businesses interested in trying stuff.

robmatic wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:46 am

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

My brother got awarded a Chair in Emerging Technologies by the Royal Academy of Engineering, which is supposed to be one way of helping remedy this, from what I understand. He says it's definitely a challenge to get businesses interested in trying stuff.

Yeah, cos there's no support for them. Very little to help them manage risk, or help with capital investment, unis that are only interested in licence fees, academics who aren't interested in working with them etc. etc. And the tax credits for &D are incredibly complex, to the point that many companies don't even bother.

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:14 am

robmatic wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:46 am

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

My brother got awarded a Chair in Emerging Technologies by the Royal Academy of Engineering, which is supposed to be one way of helping remedy this, from what I understand. He says it's definitely a challenge to get businesses interested in trying stuff.

Yeah, cos there's no support for them. Very little to help them manage risk, or help with capital investment, unis that are only interested in licence fees, academics who aren't interested in working with them etc. etc. And the tax credits for &D are incredibly complex, to the point that many companies don't even bother.

It may be changing, as I've been out for a good decade or so, but incentivisation isn't really set for industrial exploitation.

I worked for what was called an Innovative Manufacturing Research Centre, which received 5 years of ringfenced funds to look into applied research. An ongoing issue was that academics were still judged on academic output - writing journals that noone (least of all people in industry) will ever read, and EPSRC were never clear on what basis grants would be renewed - evidence of industrial impact or evidence of academic output. Some academics just took the access to industry afforded by the centre as an avenue for more research funds, and not as opportunity to influence industry.

I've had discussions with Biffer on this before, an it seems that strides are really being made, and congrats to your brother on what sounds a very prestigious and interesting role. I think many in industry have had fingers burnt - funding a piece of work that led to nothing useful (meaning that the papers and student graduating their programme aren't big wins for the industry partner). The German model of Fraunhofers means that industry directly fund and - more importantly- steer the applied research direction . All industry can really do in the UK is to try to steer an academic into doing something applied, and this issue is amplified for any programme of scale, which is what industry tend to be interested.

The phrase 'herding cats' was invented to describe trying to steer academics.

I think fundamentally splitting roles between fundamental research and applied research is required, thus making the objectives of each role much more distinct, is necessary.

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:09 pm Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

Yes, wasn’t trying to suggest this was just a Scottish issue and hoped you might pick this up as I thought it was your area

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:09 pm Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

A friend of mine went from Academia, to Industry, & back to Academia, but the 2nd time out he went to a Technical College, & he was amazed how much better the supposedly inferior institution worked with Industry. He thought is was a combination of them always being tighter aligned on syllabus, & job placement etc, & staff generally being like him, with splitting their time between reality & education.

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:44 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

A friend of mine went from Academia, to Industry, & back to Academia, but the 2nd time out he went to a Technical College, & he was amazed how much better the supposedly inferior institution worked with Industry. He thought is was a combination of them always being tighter aligned on syllabus, & job placement etc, & staff generally being like him, with splitting their time between reality & education.

That's one of the things we need, and more people going back and forward between academia and industry (and not being looked at as weird by colleagues for doing it). RTOs should be paid by govt to take on twice the number of graduates they need, to feed skilled people into industry and to allow for more research to be done. There isn't a magic bullet for this, but there are a lot of things that are quite straightforward to do (and some that are much more complicated). Government often makes the right noises but then doesn't understand what it should do and is steered off course by the universities, many of whom think that all research funding should be given to them by default (because in their world industry doesn't do 'proper' research).

(And don't get me started on the universities doing 'skills'. FFS what a pile of fucking nonsense)

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:44 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

A friend of mine went from Academia, to Industry, & back to Academia, but the 2nd time out he went to a Technical College, & he was amazed how much better the supposedly inferior institution worked with Industry. He thought is was a combination of them always being tighter aligned on syllabus, & job placement etc, & staff generally being like him, with splitting their time between reality & education.

Interesting point, although perhaps necessary to separate out undergrad education and research - and even within the teaching to further separate out between underlying theoretical knowledge and practical application. I can only speak for engineering, but the Institute for Mechanical Engineers recognises Engineering Technician as a different skill set to Chartered Engineer, where the technician is much more applied and much more linked to the practical, shop floor engineering. IT's typically the technical colleges that will provide this sort of skillset (to be a Chartered Engineer you strictly peaking need a masters degree) but these technicians are not going to design the next airbus. The engineers, with heavy focus upon theory such as aerodynamics and thermodynamics, are going to do that bit. You need both.

I'm not entirely convinced fundamental research really needs much direct engagement with industry, the drivers, motivations, skillsets, focus and end deliverables are different. What we should have is a second level (if that's the term) of research that is tasked with taking the applicable bits of research and driving through to realisation of a useful (and ultimately marketable) product or service. That requires skills such as commercial acumen and patent law that I'd not expect - or, indeed, want - an academic to possess.

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:21 pm

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:09 pm Research and the UK. Attended a net zero research event and it really reminded me of the underpants gnomes.
Stage 1 research
Stage 2 ?
Stage 3 lots of GDP for the UK
It is like they don't realise to actually fully benefit economically from said research they might have to manufacture a product.

We are also top class at this in Scotland, assuming this wasn’t Scotland

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

Shortly before lockdown I attended an event at Surrey University which was trying to address this. A big finance company was sponsoring and they were looking to help translate research ideas to viable products.

Surrey has been better than many with this previously but I guess they are still recovering from not monetizing the strained layer laser which was invented there.

inactionman wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:17 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:44 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

A friend of mine went from Academia, to Industry, & back to Academia, but the 2nd time out he went to a Technical College, & he was amazed how much better the supposedly inferior institution worked with Industry. He thought is was a combination of them always being tighter aligned on syllabus, & job placement etc, & staff generally being like him, with splitting their time between reality & education.

Interesting point, although perhaps necessary to separate out undergrad education and research - and even within the teaching to further separate out between underlying theoretical knowledge and practical application. I can only speak for engineering, but the Institute for Mechanical Engineers recognises Engineering Technician as a different skill set to Chartered Engineer, where the technician is much more applied and much more linked to the practical, shop floor engineering. IT's typically the technical colleges that will provide this sort of skillset (to be a Chartered Engineer you strictly peaking need a masters degree) but these technicians are not going to design the next airbus. The engineers, with heavy focus upon theory such as aerodynamics and thermodynamics, are going to do that bit. You need both.

I'm not entirely convinced fundamental research really needs much direct engagement with industry, the drivers, motivations, skillsets, focus and end deliverables are different. What we should have is a second level (if that's the term) of research that is tasked with taking the applicable bits of research and driving through to realisation of a useful (and ultimately marketable) product or service. That requires skills such as commercial acumen and patent law that I'd not expect - or, indeed, want - an academic to possess.

Yep, that's the path I initially took. Luckily my employer had a really proactive policy around allowing us to continue in further education, & was happy to fund Degree & Masters studies

In this companies case, they ended up working with a number of Universities sponsoring Doctorates, & Masters, & donating decommissioned Semiconductor manufacturing equipment to their Labs; SEMs, sputters, etc for research, & developed a specialized technician curriculum which included maintenance of the equipment :)

There's always a danger of just becoming a training center for a business, but there's no harm taking their money, as long as the fundamental research isn't just for the gratification of the business.

inactionman wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:17 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:44 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

A friend of mine went from Academia, to Industry, & back to Academia, but the 2nd time out he went to a Technical College, & he was amazed how much better the supposedly inferior institution worked with Industry. He thought is was a combination of them always being tighter aligned on syllabus, & job placement etc, & staff generally being like him, with splitting their time between reality & education.

Interesting point, although perhaps necessary to separate out undergrad education and research - and even within the teaching to further separate out between underlying theoretical knowledge and practical application. I can only speak for engineering, but the Institute for Mechanical Engineers recognises Engineering Technician as a different skill set to Chartered Engineer, where the technician is much more applied and much more linked to the practical, shop floor engineering. IT's typically the technical colleges that will provide this sort of skillset (to be a Chartered Engineer you strictly peaking need a masters degree) but these technicians are not going to design the next airbus. The engineers, with heavy focus upon theory such as aerodynamics and thermodynamics, are going to do that bit. You need both.

I'm not entirely convinced fundamental research really needs much direct engagement with industry, the drivers, motivations, skillsets, focus and end deliverables are different. What we should have is a second level (if that's the term) of research that is tasked with taking the applicable bits of research and driving through to realisation of a useful (and ultimately marketable) product or service. That requires skills such as commercial acumen and patent law that I'd not expect - or, indeed, want - an academic to possess.

The following career path is not unusual - ImechE accredited degree then grad scheme to immediate chartership then fast tracked into management led to the thought that a technician going onto further study might be more likely to end up actually designing parts of the next airbus.

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm

bogbunny wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:56 pm Dogs on beaches where they are prohibited during the summer season, but it's my baby Tiddles.

No enforcement whatsoever. Young families playing on the beach.

Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I do like dogs, but I don't like constantly being rushed up to by strange ones, whose temperament I don't know, because no one keeps them on a bloody leash or has trained them for recall. Imagine it must be a nightmare for those with allergies.

Fucking shits me having a rescue greyhound who are "Terrifying animals" who have to jump through hoops and do behavioural tests to walk without a muzzle.

Fuckwits get any other dog and they don't need any tests to be out and about.

I'm always grabbing off-leash (in leashed areas) dogs away from mine

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 amI have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

Fuck that. I'd be cranking up the music to twice the volume of those kids and sending it back at them for four hours a day till they stfu.

Gumboot wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 6:15 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 amI have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

Fuck that. I'd be cranking up the music to twice the volume of those kids and sending it back at them for four hours a day till they stfu.

I do try to empty the bins very loudly about 30 mins after the kids have finally gone to sleep

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:22 am

Gumboot wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 6:15 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 amI have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

Fuck that. I'd be cranking up the music to twice the volume of those kids and sending it back at them for four hours a day till they stfu.

I do try to empty the bins very loudly about 30 mins after the kids have finally gone to sleep

Wake them up and set them screaming again? Seems a bit of an own-goal.



My kids are 5 and 6 and and, once they're in meltdown mode, nothing is quietening them down. Kids are noisy.

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

We won't miss you either

mat the expat wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:48 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm

bogbunny wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:56 pm Dogs on beaches where they are prohibited during the summer season, but it's my baby Tiddles.

No enforcement whatsoever. Young families playing on the beach.

Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I do like dogs, but I don't like constantly being rushed up to by strange ones, whose temperament I don't know, because no one keeps them on a bloody leash or has trained them for recall. Imagine it must be a nightmare for those with allergies.

Fucking shits me having a rescue greyhound who are "Terrifying animals" who have to jump through hoops and do behavioural tests to walk without a muzzle.

Fuckwits get any other dog and they don't need any tests to be out and about.

I'm always grabbing off-leash (in leashed areas) dogs away from mine

The only dog that has ever attacked me was a greyhound, the cunts.

inactionman wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:17 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:44 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:18 am

It's all over the UK, and is closely aligned with what I do for a living. The UK is fucking shit at translating research into economic benefit. There's a whole set of reasons for this, from academics being either snobbish about industry or being afraid their work will be corrupted / stolen / made secret, to a lack of government support for industry (complete lack of an industrial strategy), to the terrible paucity of non university research and technology organisations, to the finance guys being terrified of risk in a way American investors just aren't, to lack of funding and finance mechanisms for small and medium sized companies, and a political class that has no fucking idea about technology an industry.

There are a fair number of us trying to find ways to help this along but without serious policy backing, and the very significant amount of money needed, it's very difficult. On the bright side, the companies who have gone through our incubator in the last five years (which includes being shut for a while for obvious reasons) have created over 120 jobs and generated about £12million of equity investment. But we're one small group doing it and much more significant action is needed.

A friend of mine went from Academia, to Industry, & back to Academia, but the 2nd time out he went to a Technical College, & he was amazed how much better the supposedly inferior institution worked with Industry. He thought is was a combination of them always being tighter aligned on syllabus, & job placement etc, & staff generally being like him, with splitting their time between reality & education.

Interesting point, although perhaps necessary to separate out undergrad education and research - and even within the teaching to further separate out between underlying theoretical knowledge and practical application. I can only speak for engineering, but the Institute for Mechanical Engineers recognises Engineering Technician as a different skill set to Chartered Engineer, where the technician is much more applied and much more linked to the practical, shop floor engineering. IT's typically the technical colleges that will provide this sort of skillset (to be a Chartered Engineer you strictly peaking need a masters degree) but these technicians are not going to design the next airbus. The engineers, with heavy focus upon theory such as aerodynamics and thermodynamics, are going to do that bit. You need both.

I'm not entirely convinced fundamental research really needs much direct engagement with industry, the drivers, motivations, skillsets, focus and end deliverables are different. What we should have is a second level (if that's the term) of research that is tasked with taking the applicable bits of research and driving through to realisation of a useful (and ultimately marketable) product or service. That requires skills such as commercial acumen and patent law that I'd not expect - or, indeed, want - an academic to possess.

Good discussion this. I hold a university Chair in applied health research. As an academic, my driver is primarily: what can I get money for?, as my grant income is the main metric by which the university judges my performance. And my second driver is: what do I like doing?, which only becomes a driver once you've got a Chair because up to that point you just grab every opportunity you can, which includes working with utter dickheads on projects you don't like.

Some of the things I liked doing best were collaborations with industry leading to new or improved products. But all of that stuff was EU-funded, and has been killed by Brexit (we are still somewhat eligible for EU research funding but the interest of EU-based industry in working with UK academic partners has cooled considerably). What's left open to me are the so called Knowledge Transfer Partnerships, which are truckloads of work for peanuts money, so they don't fit my definition of things I'd like to do. Also, they don't include funds that cover my time - which makes the university unhappy. And being a health researcher - the NHS tends to take a pretty dim view of any research they were not themselves directly involved in, so good luck trying to implement anything like that within the health service.

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

I did live on an estate with a little playground in the middle right outside my house and it was horrible in Summer. Obviously, kids can't be cooped up in doors all the time and they'll make some noise, but it was for hours and hours and hours. The screaming was surprising, I don't remember that from when I was a kid. It wasn't even upset screaming, they just seemed unable to do anything without shrieking at the top of their lungs. Amazing they had voices left. I don't like children, so I try to actively counter my first thoughts about them in most instances, but I think my hatred of those particular little fucks was justified.

Of course if you played any music above a whisper with windows open someone would be right round to let you know they could hear it.

mat the expat wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:48 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm

bogbunny wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:56 pm Dogs on beaches where they are prohibited during the summer season, but it's my baby Tiddles.

No enforcement whatsoever. Young families playing on the beach.

Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I do like dogs, but I don't like constantly being rushed up to by strange ones, whose temperament I don't know, because no one keeps them on a bloody leash or has trained them for recall. Imagine it must be a nightmare for those with allergies.

Fucking shits me having a rescue greyhound who are "Terrifying animals" who have to jump through hoops and do behavioural tests to walk without a muzzle.

Fuckwits get any other dog and they don't need any tests to be out and about.

I'm always grabbing off-leash (in leashed areas) dogs away from mine

Oh, are they known for that? The few greyhounds I've met have been among the laziest, most docile dogs.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:25 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:29 pm Increasingly it's dog owners in general that get on my wick. So many just don't seem to have bothered training their animal or attempt to control them.

I have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

I did live on an estate with a little playground in the middle right outside my house and it was horrible in Summer. Obviously, kids can't be cooped up in doors all the time and they'll make some noise, but it was for hours and hours and hours. The screaming was surprising, I don't remember that from when I was a kid. It wasn't even upset screaming, they just seemed unable to do anything without shrieking at the top of their lungs. Amazing they had voices left. I don't like children, so I try to actively counter my first thoughts about them in most instances, but I think my hatred of those particular little fucks was justified.

Of course if you played any music above a whisper with windows open someone would be right round to let you know they could hear it.

I'm afraid that's just kids. Any kids. Trust me.

On a slight tangent, I read a piece the other day from an Italian or Spanish writer who lived here now. She was of the opinion that UK kids were no better or worse than continental kids in restaurants and public spaces, contrary to what most of think, but rather the society there just accepts that kids will be kids and no one gets annoyed, upset or embarrassed about it

Slick wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:33 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:25 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 am

I have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

I did live on an estate with a little playground in the middle right outside my house and it was horrible in Summer. Obviously, kids can't be cooped up in doors all the time and they'll make some noise, but it was for hours and hours and hours. The screaming was surprising, I don't remember that from when I was a kid. It wasn't even upset screaming, they just seemed unable to do anything without shrieking at the top of their lungs. Amazing they had voices left. I don't like children, so I try to actively counter my first thoughts about them in most instances, but I think my hatred of those particular little fucks was justified.

Of course if you played any music above a whisper with windows open someone would be right round to let you know they could hear it.

I'm afraid that's just kids. Any kids. Trust me.

On a slight tangent, I read a piece the other day from an Italian or Spanish writer who lived here now. She was of the opinion that UK kids were no better or worse than continental kids in restaurants and public spaces, contrary to what most of think, but rather the society there just accepts that kids will be kids and no one gets annoyed, upset or embarrassed about it

Yeah maybe, it's just that I don't have enough exposure to know what they're really like, but when I visited friends on other estates it seemed like other chidren were quieter. Of course I wasn't there for as long as my own place.

When I taught, it was secondary school where, other than a few of the more immature year 7s, they're generally less shrill at the least. Only a couple of my peers have kids of their own and those are babies/toddlers.

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 amI have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

Or restaurants, or other public places which are not designed for play / recreation.

We have kids, kids can be unruly. But when ours were getting out of hand they were dealt with, either by being quietened, or if all else failed removed. At the local Christmas Service, words were had by other attendees with a couple renting a holiday cottage who had two screaming brats who totally disrupted the service while their parents just ignored them. Behaviour that just would not be tolerated in our local community where everyone knows everyone and peer pressure makes sure everyone behaves within certain norms.

Slick wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:33 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:25 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:51 amI have a similar problem with parents and children.
Our neighbours kids scream and tantrum constantly for hours and they do nothing to quiet their little princesses. Summer is a nightmare, literally can't have the windows open without having to listen to a screaming child tantrum for an hour or 2 every day.
Thankfully their lease has ended and they are moving soon.

I did live on an estate with a little playground in the middle right outside my house and it was horrible in Summer. Obviously, kids can't be cooped up in doors all the time and they'll make some noise, but it was for hours and hours and hours. The screaming was surprising, I don't remember that from when I was a kid. It wasn't even upset screaming, they just seemed unable to do anything without shrieking at the top of their lungs. Amazing they had voices left. I don't like children, so I try to actively counter my first thoughts about them in most instances, but I think my hatred of those particular little fucks was justified.

Of course if you played any music above a whisper with windows open someone would be right round to let you know they could hear it.

I'm afraid that's just kids. Any kids. Trust me.

On a slight tangent, I read a piece the other day from an Italian or Spanish writer who lived here now. She was of the opinion that UK kids were no better or worse than continental kids in restaurants and public spaces, contrary to what most of think, but rather the society there just accepts that kids will be kids and no one gets annoyed, upset or embarrassed about it

My mother is Italian and her family were always very clear about the difference between 'kids being kids' and kids being out of control. In all our family weddings etc there would be kids running around amongst the adults, playing and being often quite boisterous to an extent that was baffling to Scots in the 60s and 70s. But there were limits to what was acceptable, and the kids knew what those limits were. That is the essential difference, continental kids get more freedom in public places than was the case in the UK when I was growing up, but they knew the boundaries. Kids here just seem to lack boundaries now.

GogLais wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:40 am My row with someone whose off-lead dog was chasing sheep in the Yorkshire Dales has gone down in our family history.

You went up against Hask??


Or is this you?

https://www.tntmagazine.com/archive/joe ... g-sex-pic/

weegie01 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:08 am

Slick wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:33 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:25 am

I did live on an estate with a little playground in the middle right outside my house and it was horrible in Summer. Obviously, kids can't be cooped up in doors all the time and they'll make some noise, but it was for hours and hours and hours. The screaming was surprising, I don't remember that from when I was a kid. It wasn't even upset screaming, they just seemed unable to do anything without shrieking at the top of their lungs. Amazing they had voices left. I don't like children, so I try to actively counter my first thoughts about them in most instances, but I think my hatred of those particular little fucks was justified.

Of course if you played any music above a whisper with windows open someone would be right round to let you know they could hear it.

I'm afraid that's just kids. Any kids. Trust me.

On a slight tangent, I read a piece the other day from an Italian or Spanish writer who lived here now. She was of the opinion that UK kids were no better or worse than continental kids in restaurants and public spaces, contrary to what most of think, but rather the society there just accepts that kids will be kids and no one gets annoyed, upset or embarrassed about it

My mother is Italian and her family were always very clear about the difference between 'kids being kids' and kids being out of control. In all our family weddings etc there would be kids running around amongst the adults, playing and being often quite boisterous to an extent that was baffling to Scots in the 60s and 70s. But there were limits to what was acceptable, and the kids knew what those limits were. That is the essential difference, continental kids get more freedom in public places than was the case in the UK when I was growing up, but they knew the boundaries. Kids here just seem to lack boundaries now.

Good post, agree with all of that.

We are very strict with the kids when at restaurants etc, but it has made me think that we should give them a bit of leeway - will be very interested to see how it all goes on holiday this year

Ymx wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:09 am

GogLais wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:40 am My row with someone whose off-lead dog was chasing sheep in the Yorkshire Dales has gone down in our family history.

You went up against Hask??


Or is this you?

https://www.tntmagazine.com/archive/joe ... g-sex-pic/

I wish I hadn’t started this now.

Slick wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:34 am
The only dog that has ever attacked me was a greyhound, the cunts.

they are the ultimate vibe-machine - you're clearly asking for it!

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:27 am

Oh, are they known for that? The few greyhounds I've met have been among the laziest, most docile dogs.

Not at all - it's part of the industry-scare campaign to allow them to be euthanised instead of rehomed (I volunteer with a rescue group). Sadly, the ones who are a bit snarly as those abused by the trainers. Some can't be looked after by men at first.

It's why I stopped collecting them from trainers.....

mat the expat wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:58 am

Slick wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:34 am
The only dog that has ever attacked me was a greyhound, the cunts.

they are the ultimate vibe-machine - you're clearly asking for it!

I was actually, didn't realise it had a pup behind it as I approached!

If I glance a stationary car parked on a double yellow line & blocking the road am I still at fault?

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:08 pm If I glance a stationary car parked on a double yellow line & blocking the road am I still at fault?

That depends... are you a quantum physicist?

Slick wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:15 am

mat the expat wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:58 am

Slick wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:34 am
The only dog that has ever attacked me was a greyhound, the cunts.

they are the ultimate vibe-machine - you're clearly asking for it!

I was actually, didn't realise it had a pup behind it as I approached!

Fair enough