NPR

Great team. Libbok the only worry but suppose we will see all out attacking.

Rassie show respect for England with the 5-3 bench split.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:09 am Great team. Libbok the only worry but suppose we will see all out attacking.

More worried about Bongi and Marx throwing, both were poor against Scotland.

Springboks by 50.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:18 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:09 am Great team. Libbok the only worry but suppose we will see all out attacking.

More worried about Bongi and Marx throwing, both were poor against Scotland.

WTF is AM doing in the squad?

Chilli2 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:25 am

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:18 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:09 am Great team. Libbok the only worry but suppose we will see all out attacking.

More worried about Bongi and Marx throwing, both were poor against Scotland.

WTF is AM doing in the squad?

He's the only player in the 23 making turnovers?

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:26 am

Chilli2 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:25 am

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:18 am

More worried about Bongi and Marx throwing, both were poor against Scotland.

WTF is AM doing in the squad?

He's the only player in the 23 making turnovers?

Dropping the ball forward and turnovers are not the same thing Sandy.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:11 am Rassie show respect for England with the 5-3 bench split.

So he disrespected Scotland?

Other way round, Boks think they only need 5 forward subs against this weak England pack*. Total disrespect.






* and they're right

I'm minded to put a few quid down early on a Kolbe hat trick.

Think Esterhuizen is a bit unlucky, he looked good last time out, but I realise this is squad rotation and Kriel and De Allende aren't exactly second-string replacements. I also note Le Roux is absent.

Chilli2 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:29 am
Dropping the ball forward and turnovers are not the same thing Sandy.

That depth of knowledge is why you're the skipper of this team, Chilli.

Chilli2 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:25 am WTF is AM doing in the squad?

Shut your dirty mouth.
Am is rugby royalty, you can't speak about him like that.
Yes, he dropped a couple of balls last week. He wasn't the only one who did.
He's got enough pedigree in him to see him selected this week, which is what Rassie has done. He's the greatest 13 we've ever produced, and for a whlie was the best in the world. Cut his some slack!
If we need a moment of magic to win a tight game, it will come from him.

Tight game

Boks are going to walk it.

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:59 am He's the greatest 13 we've ever produced, and for a whlie was the best in the world. Cut Am some slack!

Danie Gerber and Jacque Fourie say "Hold our beers!"

Rassie mentioned in the press conference that the strategy was already decided on 3 weeks ago before they got on the plane when the reporter asked him what the thinking was behind the team. Also mentioned that rotation was important to give the squad caps and create quality depth in experience so that even a current 3rd choice have experience.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:29 pm Danie Gerber and Jacque Fourie say "Hold our beers!"

They should be serving Am beer!

Like I said. Bench forwards from last week starting this week.
All out pace in the backline to run the English ragged.
Fassi is very safe under the high ball so all kicking by England more than adequately covered. And Fassi scores tries for fun.
This is the A team. Scotland got the B team

England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Roebuck.

Bit meh !

Ovals wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:48 pm England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Roebuck.

Bit meh !

Underhill starts.

England by 20.

And, of course, no Ted Hill. The bloke must have put a fair few miles on his company car up and down the M4, turning up for training only to be told to go away again at game time.

Sards wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:38 pm Like I said. Bench forwards from last week starting this week.
All out pace in the backline to run the English ragged.
Fassi is very safe under the high ball so all kicking by England more than adequately covered. And Fassi scores tries for fun.
This is the A team. Scotland got the B team

Until it starts raining, then there will be very little running and that is where Libbok is a bit of a worry for me if we have to rely on his kicking. But if it somehow stays dry, the game could be very exciting. I think just about everyone could have guessed that this would be the team apart from the 9/10 positions and the 5/3 split.

If the weather stays dry this backline can definitely take advantage of the England rush defense from the last 2 weeks. Arendse and Kolbi will most likely be peppered with high balls, specially with the new regulations related to protection of the catcher with the perception that the small guys will be vulnerable under the high ball as a result.

Ovals wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:48 pm England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Roebuck.

Bit meh !

Box kick, if they block, penalty, if they don't, you're sending Steward, Freeman and Sleightholme in to put some serious pressure on.

Ovals wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:48 pm England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Roebuck.

Bit meh !

Understatement. I'd go with utter dogshite.

Raggs wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:59 pm

Ovals wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:48 pm England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Roebuck.

Bit meh !

Box kick, if they block, penalty, if they don't, you're sending Steward, Freeman and Sleightholme in to put some serious pressure on.

Well, at least there's a rationale.

Poor picks at 15 and 9.

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:06 pm Poor picks at 15 and 9.

Not enough pace.

inactionman wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:00 pm

Raggs wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:59 pm

Ovals wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:48 pm England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Roebuck.

Bit meh !

Box kick, if they block, penalty, if they don't, you're sending Steward, Freeman and Sleightholme in to put some serious pressure on.

Well, at least there's a rationale.

I'm hoping that's the rationale. What's the betting that we now try and play from everywhere

Where's Daly? Surely he's the man we need right now?

Josh Lewsey looked pretty fit in that recent photo, I reckon he'd still be quicker on the turn than Steward.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:06 pm Poor picks at 15 and 9.

Not enough pace.

Quite, but they're from Leicester Tigers so all is good.
Steward against any of the Saffer back three will be embarrassing

Thing is - we're going to lose anyway - so it'd be much better to see some of the guys that might develop into a much better team in the future. We know that it won't be any of Cole, Slade, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Steward and George. It just looks like a 'damage limitation' squad.

No need for Am there on the bench. Would have preferred another lock

SaintK wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:42 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:06 pm Poor picks at 15 and 9.

Not enough pace.

Quite, but they're from Leicester Tigers so all is good.
Steward against any of the Saffer back three will be embarrassing

Spencer has been meh and at least van poortfliet is the right side of 30 and can't be any slower. Is Furbank injured? If not we are clearly going to box kick everything and have steward challenging for the ball. I guess this tactic is to keep the margin of loss down. Cole still being in the squad is just silly at this point. If we lose by less than 10 while playing terrible rugby it will be regarded as a success.

petej wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:48 pmIf we lose by less than 10 while playing terrible rugby it will be regarded as a success.

I fear you're right

petej wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:48 pm

SaintK wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:42 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm

Not enough pace.

Quite, but they're from Leicester Tigers so all is good.
Steward against any of the Saffer back three will be embarrassing

Spencer has been meh and at least van poortfliet is the right side of 30 and can't be any slower. Is Furbank injured? If not we are clearly going to box kick everything and have steward challenging for the ball. I guess this tactic is to keep the margin of loss down. Cole still being in the squad is just silly at this point. If we lose by less than 10 while playing terrible rugby it will be regarded as a success.

Furbank just dropped afaik. Presume the thinking is that we've got a second playmaker in Slade and are barely using the back three for anything other than kick chase, so Furbank doesn't have an awful lot to do. Shame, as in a side actually looking to play some rugby he's a huge asset as we saw towards the end of the 6N and on the NZ tour. Hence Roebuck straight onto the bench too - he's tall, fairly good in the air and will chase kicks all day.

For my money we'd be better off dropping Slade for one of Lozowski or Northmore (the other centre options in the squad) and keeping Furbank.

Spencer may be meh, but not sure JVP is sufficiently better that dropping him in to start against the Boks is a particularly wise move.

petej wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:48 pm

SaintK wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:42 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:13 pm

Not enough pace.

Quite, but they're from Leicester Tigers so all is good.
Steward against any of the Saffer back three will be embarrassing

Spencer has been meh and at least van poortfliet is the right side of 30 and can't be any slower. Is Furbank injured? If not we are clearly going to box kick everything and have steward challenging for the ball. I guess this tactic is to keep the margin of loss down. Cole still being in the squad is just silly at this point. If we lose by less than 10 while playing terrible rugby it will be regarded as a success.

To be fair, we got murdered in the air on Saturday. Didn't get talked about much but I think it was probably the main reason for our loss

Slick wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:23 pm

petej wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:48 pm

SaintK wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:42 pm
Quite, but they're from Leicester Tigers so all is good.
Steward against any of the Saffer back three will be embarrassing

Spencer has been meh and at least van poortfliet is the right side of 30 and can't be any slower. Is Furbank injured? If not we are clearly going to box kick everything and have steward challenging for the ball. I guess this tactic is to keep the margin of loss down. Cole still being in the squad is just silly at this point. If we lose by less than 10 while playing terrible rugby it will be regarded as a success.

To be fair, we got murdered in the air on Saturday. Didn't get talked about much but I think it was probably the main reason for our loss

I don't think the Boks performance last weekend has figured much in Borthwick's plans. This looks like a reversion to the game plan that England used in the RWC semi final - endless box kicks to try and put pressure on the SA back three and play for penalties, with the hope that England can build a large enough lead from this negative approach before the bomb squad come on to destroy what's left of the England scrum.

The problem with this is that England's blitz defence has crumbled since Felix Jones went on gardening leave and SA will be fully prepared for England's approach (and its unlikely they will play as badly as they did in the semi-final, or indeed, last weekend).

I also saw reports last week that, although Jones is supposedly still doing 'analysis' for England, he hasn't had any input or discussion with any of the other coaches or players. In his absence, the players are trying to work things out in defence with a bit of input from El-Abd, who is currently only part-time with England. Given such a haphazard approach to organising the defence, its probably not a surprise its as porous and poorly organised as we have seen in the last two games.

Bit nervous of the lock gamble. Bearing in mind PSDT can...but lineouts have been a weak point.

I'd be licking my lips were I England.

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:59 am

Chilli2 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:25 am WTF is AM doing in the squad?

Shut your dirty mouth.
Am is rugby royalty, you can't speak about him like that.
Yes, he dropped a couple of balls last week. He wasn't the only one who did.
He's got enough pedigree in him to see him selected this week, which is what Rassie has done. He's the greatest 13 we've ever produced, and for a whlie was the best in the world. Cut his some slack!
If we need a moment of magic to win a tight game, it will come from him.

From this forum to Gods ears!

bok_viking wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:58 pm

Sards wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:38 pm Like I said. Bench forwards from last week starting this week.
All out pace in the backline to run the English ragged.
Fassi is very safe under the high ball so all kicking by England more than adequately covered. And Fassi scores tries for fun.
This is the A team. Scotland got the B team

Until it starts raining, then there will be very little running and that is where Libbok is a bit of a worry for me if we have to rely on his kicking. But if it somehow stays dry, the game could be very exciting. I think just about everyone could have guessed that this would be the team apart from the 9/10 positions and the 5/3 split.

If the weather stays dry this backline can definitely take advantage of the England rush defense from the last 2 weeks. Arendse and Kolbi will most likely be peppered with high balls, specially with the new regulations related to protection of the catcher with the perception that the small guys will be vulnerable under the high ball as a result.

No rain forecasted, but it's England so it will be cold and damp; conditions Manie typically struggles in when the Stormers go north in November/December in the URC. So it's definitely the weak point in the team and the area England will target with their rush defense.

BUT Manie is also the best and most deceptive 10 we have at exploiting any doglegs in the defense if England get their linespeed wrong, so it will be interesting to see who can execute it the best. Our new fancy attack with multiple pods and passing out the back by by the first forward receiver didn't look flash against Ireland when they effectively rushed us, so we'll have to see if the couple of matches since has gotten the players more comfortable with it, or we are going to get nailed way behind the advantage line. Cunningham-South is going to target Manie hard all match, like PSdT did to Farrel, Ford and Barrett.

Fassi at 15 is a good call IMO. He's our best player under the high ball. Also happy having the safety net of Pollard on the bench if Rassie has to pull the ripcord like he did last year.

England's gameplan will be simple I think. Target the wobbly lineout, target Libbok with the rush and get him behind the advantage line, avoid scrums, and pepper the Bok back 3 with high and contestable kicks. Honestly, it could work and it will be close...like the last game in the semi-final. You know the English team will be up for it and claiming a Bok scalp will take a lot of pressure off of the the players and coaches.

But if England get their execution wrong, or the Boks prepared well and manage to negate those tactics, it could be an ugly blowout.