NPR

Raggs wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:03 am

Lobby wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:54 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 4:02 pm It'll finish up:
France
Ireland
Scotland
England
Italy
Wales

My feeling too. Only variable I can see is if Italy are able to reproduce and/or better their performances from last year, when they beat Wales and Scotland and were denied victory against France by a questionable refereeing decision.

I'll always be optimistic about England, but everything quoted is very realistic, we're getting closer and closer to Italy's first victory over England, could easily be this time.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:09 am

Raggs wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:03 am

Lobby wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:54 am

My feeling too. Only variable I can see is if Italy are able to reproduce and/or better their performances from last year, when they beat Wales and Scotland and were denied victory against France by a questionable refereeing decision.

I'll always be optimistic about England, but everything quoted is very realistic, we're getting closer and closer to Italy's first victory over England, could easily be this time.

It’s a matter of time until we do and there’s no disgrace to it anymore. They won two and should have won a third last year.

Raggs wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:23 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:09 am

Raggs wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:03 am

I'll always be optimistic about England, but everything quoted is very realistic, we're getting closer and closer to Italy's first victory over England, could easily be this time.

It’s a matter of time until we do and there’s no disgrace to it anymore. They won two and should have won a third last year.

Yep, given their recent results, it's really not going to be any sort of a shock if they beat us now, well earned and expected.

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:28 pm


Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:28 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:58 pm

You get to play a proper winger so.

Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Slick wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:43 am

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:28 pm


Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Weird argument to be getting into Fester

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:02 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:28 pm


Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Oh but you are, or you wouldn't have bothered with your factually incorrect reply.

Yer man Farrell will likely select Duhan on the wing for the Lions as did Gatland before him. I think we can say he's a proper winger.

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:28 pm


Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:24 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 1:02 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Oh but you are, or you wouldn't have bothered with your factually incorrect reply.

Yer man Farrell will likely select Duhan on the wing for the Lions as did Gatland before him. I think we can say he's a proper winger.

I remember at the time commenting that while I wasn't a huge fan of VDM, if you were going to pick him, you needed to be putting the ball in his hands but instead Gatland picked him in a game plan that saw the ball in the air the whole time.

So yeah, he's scored one try against Ireland in how many games? He's a highlights reel player that better teams can limit easily.

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:29 pm

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc
0 tries

2021 November
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

Biffer wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:06 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:29 pm

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc
0 tries

2021 November
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

Well, a fact would be VdM scoring in the RWC 2023 game v Tonga. So you're just talking out of your arse.

Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2024 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2022 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2021 - 0

Van der Merwe scored more tries than Lowe and Hansen added together last year.

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:31 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:06 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:29 pm
Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc
0 tries

2021 November
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

Well, a fact would be VdM scoring in the RWC 2023 game v Tonga. So you're just talking out of your arse.

Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2024 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2022 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2021 - 0

Van der Merwe scored more tries than Lowe and Hansen added together last year.

I was referring to games against South Africa when the previous poster wondered if VDM had ever played against them with Scotland. Post edited to clarify.
Also 3 lions tests against SA.
0 tries

I don't get the urge to compare him with Hansen and Lowe as a debating tactic. I certainly wouldn't be picking them on a world xv. If we had better players, we'd pick them. If they were better, they'd have played with their country of birth, a bit like VDM.

Poster up further points out that Graham is a better rugby player and that shows at elite test level.

Biffer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:44 am Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

Biffer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:44 am Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:09 am

Biffer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:44 am Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:09 am

Biffer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:44 am Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

inactionman wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:12 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:09 am

Biffer wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:44 am Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

I quite like the bolded bit.

Make the sanctions automatic, and make it the responsibility of the sanctioned player to argue why they deserve any mitigation.

We still need some way of appealing, for example the Steward red card nonsense vs Ireland, but we shouldn't let players off for dangerous play because they said the right things in the panel.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:48 am 20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:17 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:48 am 20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

Yes, that option is still there, but I would wager that it will never be used in a match where the 20 minute card is available. It's a get-out clause after all the clamour about "games being ruined" - utter bollocks of course, there is a fairly simple way to stop games being ruined by cards, just don't fucking tackle in an upright position.

Torque mentioned Aldritt saying to a referee after an incident was let go, "Don't talk to us about player safety anymore".

It's always only been lip service anyway, as long as people watch in their droves (ie bring in advertising, sponsorship and tv money) they don't actually give a flying fuck about player welfare.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:38 am

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:17 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:48 am 20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

Yes, that option is still there, but I would wager that it will never be used in a match where the 20 minute card is available. It's a get-out clause after all the clamour about "games being ruined" - utter bollocks of course, there is a fairly simple way to stop games being ruined by cards, just don't fucking tackle in an upright position.

Torque mentioned Aldritt saying to a referee after an incident was let go, "Don't talk to us about player safety anymore".

It's always only been lip service anyway, as long as people watch in their droves (ie bring in advertising, sponsorship and tv money) they don't actually give a flying fuck about player welfare.

Agreed. With this said every side is all ‘player safety is paramount’ until one of their players is threatened with being sent off at which point the ref is ruining the contest. None of us are totally immune from this. A red card is such a sea change in a game (hell even penalties are hence why they’re celebrated so hard) you can understand why, it doesn’t make for great sport though

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:42 am Do a separate thread for them and I'll dig out the excel file I made before.

PCPhil wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:20 pm I hope the Excel sheet gets finished this time! I was winning last year and I had a good last round. I was waiting to be crowned. My one moment of absolute triumph in a miserable existence

Ovals wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:39 pm

PCPhil wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:20 pm I hope the Excel sheet gets finished this time! I was winning last year and I had a good last round. I was waiting to be crowned. My one moment of absolute triumph in a miserable existence

There's one way to be sure it gets finished

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:51 pm Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

Simian wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:55 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:51 pm Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

Wonder what the odds of Howley coming back were?

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:09 pm

Simian wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:55 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:51 pm Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

Wonder what the odds of Howley coming back were?