NPR

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:47 am**

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:43 am
Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:39 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:37 am It is what it is, I'm just happy if the game goes ahead.

Disappointed that Jacobson missed out, but happy that Tupou Vaa'i got picked - think he's got a huge future. No Quentin Strange, though...
Interestingly, I though Ah Koui showed more this year than his locking partner Va'ai.
Both great young prospects. I assume Ah Koui's still out injured?

Sorry, not sure. I don't follow the Chiefs that closely. I see Ah Koui as potentially being a test standard blindside flanker. He's got the size, workrate and mobility.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:49 am**

North

South

I love the image re-sizing function of this forum but it sometimes has its limitations

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:27 am**

I'm really looking forward to this as a match up between very good players, but the attempt to create a sense of "North Island" versus "South Island" rivalry doesn't hold any weight for me. It's not just the arbitrary way eligibility has been decided. It's that being a "North Islander" isn't really a part of my identity.

I'm sure other kiwis are similarly ambivalent?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:50 am**

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:36 am So I gather the critics would prefer the criteria be school first XV.

Born or raised. i.e. the traditional North v South criteria. However, I take AC's point about having an even contest, given that this is essentially a trial match. Which adds weight to my bitch about the bullshit criteria NZRU have cooked up, trying to sell a trial dressed up as North v South is typical.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:13 am**

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:27 am I'm really looking forward to this as a match up between very good players, but the attempt to create a sense of "North Island" versus "South Island" rivalry doesn't hold any weight for me. It's not just the arbitrary way eligibility has been decided. It's that being a "North Islander" isn't really a part of my identity.

I'm sure other kiwis are similarly ambivalent?

Completely agree. I'll tend towards supporting the South because 18 of the 28 man squad are current or former Crusaders, and 15 debuted for Canterbury, and those are the teams I support. But unless they're wearing the Black jersey, I feel no affinity to the likes of Frizell, Ioane, Lomax, or Hunt (other than as good rugby players to watch as you say) simply because they're representing the South Island.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:38 am**

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:13 am
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:27 am I'm really looking forward to this as a match up between very good players, but the attempt to create a sense of "North Island" versus "South Island" rivalry doesn't hold any weight for me. It's not just the arbitrary way eligibility has been decided. It's that being a "North Islander" isn't really a part of my identity.

I'm sure other kiwis are similarly ambivalent?
Completely agree. I'll tend towards supporting the South because 18 of the 28 man squad are current or former Crusaders, and 15 debuted for Canterbury, and those are the teams I support. But unless they're wearing the Black jersey, I feel no affinity to the likes of Frizell, Ioane, Lomax, or Hunt (other than as good rugby players to watch as you say) simply because they're representing the South Island.

Yep, that perfectly sums up my view of this match.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:56 am**

Ted. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:50 am
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:36 am So I gather the critics would prefer the criteria be school first XV.
Born or raised. i.e. the traditional North v South criteria. However, I take AC's point about having an even contest, given that this is essentially a trial match. Which adds weight to my bitch about the bullshit criteria NZRU have cooked up, trying to sell a trial dressed up as North v South is typical.

There must've always been anomalies, I guess. One year David Kirk got picked for the SI and I remember thinking - Hang on, they've got this wrong. He was born and raised in Palmerston North.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:45 am**

And Barrett is named at 1st five for the Norf. Foster is going to do it isn’t he. Barrett will be his first choice. This is going to be a tough few years under his reign.

Just as long as they don’t go with Gatland in a couple of years to replace him. They wouldn’t do that would they? Would they?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:12 am**

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:45 am And Barrett is named at 1st five for the Norf. Foster is going to do it isn’t he. Barrett will be his first choice. This is going to be a tough few years under his reign.

It seems that way. The fact that he has named him as the sole no.10 for the North island speaks volumes for how Foster views BB. Ian Foster is a complete failure of a head coach, as shown by many years of mediocrity during his tenure at the Chiefs. As an Assistant Coach and selector he was part of a team that presided over any abysmal selection strategy over the last RWC cycle. He and Hansen inherited the best team in the world, and as of this moment we came 3rd in the last RWC and don't hold the Rugby Championship silverware.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:26 am**

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:45 am And Barrett is named at 1st five for the Norf. Foster is going to do it isn’t he. Barrett will be his first choice. This is going to be a tough few years under his reign.

Just as long as they don’t go with Gatland in a couple of years to replace him. They wouldn’t do that would they? Would they?

I hate to be all doom and gloom, but given the covid situation, Foster won't have time to fail consistently enough to be stood down in this RWC cycle till it's too late. The opposition the ABs are likely to face over the next two years (Australia? Even the Island nations?) because of covid travel restrictions is also likely to flatter his results.

He's locked in till 2023 at the very least.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:30 am**

Tom Christie, Sanders, Frizell, Princep, Hunt - who's the preferred no.8 out of that lot?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:41 am**

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:26 amgiven the covid situation, Foster won't have time to fail consistently enough to be stood down in this RWC cycle till it's too late.

He won’t have time to fail consistently.

This is the single most positive thing I have read about Foster’s coaching chances since he was appointed.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:46 am**

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:30 am Tom Christie, Sanders, Frizell, Princep, Hunt - who's the preferred no.8 out of that lot?

Sanders had a storming game at 8 in the second to last round but I don't recall any of the others playing there.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:53 am**

Kiwias wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:46 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:30 am Tom Christie, Sanders, Frizell, Princep, Hunt - who's the preferred no.8 out of that lot?
Sanders had a storming game at 8 in the second to last round but I don't recall any of the others playing there.

Frizell's played a few games there, but surely they wouldn't move him out of blindside at this point? It seems to be the only position in either team with no obvious first choice.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:04 am**

Tom Sanders was decent at 8. I cannot see any reason why the selectors would move Frizell given he was arguably the form backrower in Super Rugby Aotearoa playing as a classical blindside flanker.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:29 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:04 am Tom Sanders was decent at 8. I cannot see any reason why the selectors would move Frizell given he was arguably the form backrower in Super Rugby Aotearoa playing as a classical blindside flanker.

Yeah, Frizell has to stay at 6. But is Sanders a potential test no.8?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:36 am**

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:29 am
Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:04 am Tom Sanders was decent at 8. I cannot see any reason why the selectors would move Frizell given he was arguably the form backrower in Super Rugby Aotearoa playing as a classical blindside flanker.
Yeah, Frizell has to stay at 6. But is Sanders a potential test no.8?

Nope, but the NI have two high quality 8's in Savea and Sotutu. I cant believe that Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u missed out on selection or this game, but I guess Savea is thge incumbent and Soutu considered the next best cab off the rank. MMT would have been the SI's first choice no.8 for certain.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:34 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:36 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:29 am
Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:04 am Tom Sanders was decent at 8. I cannot see any reason why the selectors would move Frizell given he was arguably the form backrower in Super Rugby Aotearoa playing as a classical blindside flanker.
Yeah, Frizell has to stay at 6. But is Sanders a potential test no.8?
Nope, but the NI have two high quality 8's in Savea and Sotutu. I cant believe that Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u missed out on selection or this game, but I guess Savea is thge incumbent and Soutu considered the next best cab off the rank. MMT would have been the SI's first choice no.8 for certain.

MMT was very average in a clutch game vs the Crusaders

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:41 am**

Isn't it a little weird that Pari Pari Parkinson hasn't been selected? Is he injured or do they want to give him a rest?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:41 am**

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:34 am MMT was very average in a clutch game vs the Crusaders

His defence is pretty loose at times.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:02 am**

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:41 am Isn't it a little weird that Pari Pari Parkinson hasn't been selected? Is he injured or do they want to give him a rest?

Rest for what? the Mitre 10 Cup? lol

Yes very weird since he was one of the form locks in the comp. Another example of Ian Foster's incompetence as a selector.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:05 am**

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:41 am
Not_Couch wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:34 am MMT was very average in a clutch game vs the Crusaders
His defence is pretty loose at times.

I watched every game he played this season and I don't remember it being loose. Care to post some video evidence to support your ridiculous claim?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am**

9 tackles made, 3 missed against the Crusaders last time out (2nd worst of the forwards) and conceded 2 turnovers. 6/2/1 against the Chiefs. The other recent matches he didn't tackle much at all, which is a surprise for a big backrower.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am**

@AC
Just a casual observation. He's still young, it's hardly his only flaw. What do you put his non-selection down to?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:26 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:12 am
ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:45 am And Barrett is named at 1st five for the Norf. Foster is going to do it isn’t he. Barrett will be his first choice. This is going to be a tough few years under his reign.
It seems that way. The fact that he has named him as the sole no.10 for the North island speaks volumes for how Foster views BB. Ian Foster is a complete failure of a head coach, as shown by many years of mediocrity during his tenure at the Chiefs. As an Assistant Coach and selector he was part of a team that presided over any abysmal selection strategy over the last RWC cycle. He and Hansen inherited the best team in the world, and as of this moment we came 3rd in the last RWC and don't hold the Rugby Championship silverware.

An absolute fucking hacker. Only there because of the closed shop that is the NZ Rugby Union.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:42 pm**

I say give Foster a chance. 3.5 years is about perfect.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:22 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am 9 tackles made, 3 missed against the Crusaders last time out (2nd worst of the forwards) and conceded 2 turnovers. 6/2/1 against the Chiefs. The other recent matches he didn't tackle much at all, which is a surprise for a big backrower.

Now now JM, you are at loggerheads with the received wisdom.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:23 pm**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:02 am
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:41 am Isn't it a little weird that Pari Pari Parkinson hasn't been selected? Is he injured or do they want to give him a rest?
Rest for what? the Mitre 10 Cup? lol

Yes very weird since he was one of the form locks in the comp. Another example of Ian Foster's incompetence as a selector.

He's injured.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:26 pm**

There is a lot of water under the bridge to be decided before anything concrete happens here. Will the game actually be in Wellington? Auckland looks like it will be under another L3 extension till 9th September with the way new cases are still appearing this won't be cleared up in a week.

Chris Hipkins today dropped this beauty which pretty much kills off the North team and the whole spectacle.

The Auckland-based players involved in the North-South rugby game may be left at home with the Health Minister saying he hasn't given any exemptions for them to travel to Wellington.

However, with Auckland in Alert Level 3 until at least 26 August the game remains in doubt and New Zealand Rugby has been looking at contingency plans. The squads are scheduled to assemble in Wellington on Monday.

Health Minister Chris Hipkins said he hasn't received any requests for the 13 Auckland and North Harbour based players to be given special clearance to leave the region.

He added that no exemptions have been given for the Auckland based players to assemble in Wellington with the North and South squads.

Hipkins said he hasn't given assurances to NZR that the players will be able to leave Auckland.

He said he would expect either himself or the Director General of Health to be involved in the decision making process and he's not aware that either of them have been.

Hipkins said it's unlikely he would grant exemptions for the players to leave Auckland, considering MPs are not travelling to Wellington for parliament sitting.

He said at this point he would say no to allowing the 13 players to travel to Wellington.

To show how up in the air this is the NZ TAB have removed all game options from their site as well.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:48 pm**

JPNZ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:26 pm There is a lot of water under the bridge to be decided before anything concrete happens here. Will the game actually be in Wellington? Auckland looks like it will be under another L3 extension till 9th September with the way new cases are still appearing this won't be cleared up in a week.

Chris Hipkins today dropped this beauty which pretty much kills off the North team and the whole spectacle.

The Auckland-based players involved in the North-South rugby game may be left at home with the Health Minister saying he hasn't given any exemptions for them to travel to Wellington.

However, with Auckland in Alert Level 3 until at least 26 August the game remains in doubt and New Zealand Rugby has been looking at contingency plans. The squads are scheduled to assemble in Wellington on Monday.

Health Minister Chris Hipkins said he hasn't received any requests for the 13 Auckland and North Harbour based players to be given special clearance to leave the region.

He added that no exemptions have been given for the Auckland based players to assemble in Wellington with the North and South squads.

Hipkins said he hasn't given assurances to NZR that the players will be able to leave Auckland.

He said he would expect either himself or the Director General of Health to be involved in the decision making process and he's not aware that either of them have been.

Hipkins said it's unlikely he would grant exemptions for the players to leave Auckland, considering MPs are not travelling to Wellington for parliament sitting.

He said at this point he would say no to allowing the 13 players to travel to Wellington.
To show how up in the air this is the NZ TAB have removed all game options from their site as well.

It's unfuckingbelievable that NZR have not even broached the travel issue with MOH. What on earth do they thing they are they playing at?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:56 pm**

Ted. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:48 pm It's unfuckingbelievable that NZR have not even broached the travel issue with MOH. What on earth do they thing they are they playing at?

Yes, that's just exceedingly poor planning and management. There are loads of NZR coaches and officials earning millions of dollars a year and no-one thought that it might be a good idea to confirm if players can travel to this game? Another massive show of incompetency fro NZR. This is unforgivable really, if the match is cancelled due to player travel issues then someone high up needs to get sacked.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:13 pm**

Stop whinging. It’s 2020 and Covid trumps everything else, including AB trials.

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:18 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:13 pm Stop whinging. It’s 2020 and Covid trumps everything else, including AB trials.

Shut up. NZ has largely controlled COVID-19, with a tiny number of deaths an infections and everywhere outside of Auckland able to host matches. If they can organise themselves to play Rugby in places like the UK or Australia then surely someone in NZR could have planned for this match to go ahead?

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:30 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am 9 tackles made, 3 missed against the Crusaders last time out (2nd worst of the forwards) and conceded 2 turnovers. 6/2/1 against the Chiefs. The other recent matches he didn't tackle much at all, which is a surprise for a big backrower.

Yep, you only have to watch the highlights videos of recent Highlanders games to see how inaccurate/poorly positioned he can be on defence, especially close to his own try-line. He's nowhere near ready for higher honours yet.

Posted: **Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:00 am**

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:30 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am 9 tackles made, 3 missed against the Crusaders last time out (2nd worst of the forwards) and conceded 2 turnovers. 6/2/1 against the Chiefs. The other recent matches he didn't tackle much at all, which is a surprise for a big backrower.
Yep, you only have to watch the highlights videos of recent Highlanders games to see how inaccurate/poorly positioned he can be on defence, especially close to his own try-line. He's nowhere near ready for higher honours yet.

He's also the best ball running loose forward in NZ. You forgot to mention that important trait.

Posted: **Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:04 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:00 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:30 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am 9 tackles made, 3 missed against the Crusaders last time out (2nd worst of the forwards) and conceded 2 turnovers. 6/2/1 against the Chiefs. The other recent matches he didn't tackle much at all, which is a surprise for a big backrower.
Yep, you only have to watch the highlights videos of recent Highlanders games to see how inaccurate/poorly positioned he can be on defence, especially close to his own try-line. He's nowhere near ready for higher honours yet.
He's also the best ball running loose forward in NZ. You forgot to mention that important trait.

Stats?

Posted: **Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:30 am**

Can't see Auckland dropping out of defcon 3 until the threat of community transmission is squashed, can't see NZ rugby given a pass to export Auckland players to leave Auckland either.
We may get to start the NPC at the designated ko date if we get to zero covid positives by the end of August, which probably looks likely. 5 community transmission cases today.

Posted: **Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:01 am**

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:04 am
Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:00 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:30 pm

Yep, you only have to watch the highlights videos of recent Highlanders games to see how inaccurate/poorly positioned he can be on defence, especially close to his own try-line. He's nowhere near ready for higher honours yet.
He's also the best ball running loose forward in NZ. You forgot to mention that important trait.
Stats?

Anecdotally. That's coming from a fan who watched every SRA match. And I'm not a Highlanders fan either. I'm sure JMK will have some stats for you.

Posted: **Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:24 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:00 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:30 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:12 am 9 tackles made, 3 missed against the Crusaders last time out (2nd worst of the forwards) and conceded 2 turnovers. 6/2/1 against the Chiefs. The other recent matches he didn't tackle much at all, which is a surprise for a big backrower.
Yep, you only have to watch the highlights videos of recent Highlanders games to see how inaccurate/poorly positioned he can be on defence, especially close to his own try-line. He's nowhere near ready for higher honours yet.
He's also the best ball running loose forward in NZ. You forgot to mention that important trait.

Why would I mention it when we're discussing his defence?

Have you watched those highlights videos I referred to? You claimed to have watched him closely all year, so I'm a bit surprised you missed so many of his defensive lapses.

Posted: **Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:15 am**

stunt_cunt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:30 am Can't see Auckland dropping out of defcon 3 until the threat of community transmission is squashed, can't see NZ rugby given a pass to export Auckland players to leave Auckland either.
We may get to start the NPC at the designated ko date if we get to zero covid positives by the end of August, which probably looks likely. 5 community transmission cases today.

Even if only temporarily, is it such a bad thing excluding Auckland from the rest of New Zealand?

NPR

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