NZ North vs South Game Thread

[JPNZ]

Saturday 5th September - 7:10pm NZT - 9:10pm AST
Sky Stadium - Wellington (No live crowd)




NORTH: Forwards: 1. Karl Tu'inukuafe 2. Asafo Aumua, 3. Ofa Tuungafasi, 4. Patrick Tuipulotu (captain), 5. Tupou Vaa'i, 6. Akira Ioane, 7. Ardie Savea, 8. Hoskins Sotutu. Backs: 9. TJ Perenara, 10. Beauden Barrett, 11. Caleb Clarke, 12. Anton Lienert-Brown, 13. Rieko Ioane, 14. Sevu Reece, 15. Damian McKenzie.

Replacements: 16. Ash Dixon, 17. Ayden Johnstone, 18. Angus Ta'avao, 19. Scott Scrafton, 20. Dalton Papalii, 21. Aaron Smith, 22. Peter Umaga-Jensen, 23. Mitchell Hunt.

SOUTH: Forwards: 1. Joe Moody, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Nepo Laulala, 4. Samuel Whitelock (captain), 5. Mitchell Dunshea, 6. Shannon Frizell, 7. Tom Christie, 8. Tom Sanders. Backs: 9. Brad Weber, 10. Richie Mo'unga, 11. George Bridge, 12. Jack Goodhue, 13. Brayden Ennor, 14. Will Jordan, 15. Jordie Barrett.

Replacements: 16. Liam Coltman, 17. George Bower, 18. Tyrel Lomax, 19. Manaaki Selby-Rickit, 20. Dillon Hunt, 21. Finlay Christie, 22. Josh Ioane, 23. Leicester Faingaanuku.

[wet-socks]

This game should be moved back a week if Blues vs Crusaders isn't able to go ahead this Sunday.

[Gumboot]

I can't see this game even going ahead tbh.

[Tussock]

Move it to Welly or Dunedin

[Enzedder]

So, it looks like Wellington is the new venue

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... O71QtuZTg4

[Jb1981]

So, it looks like Wellington is the new venue

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... O71QtuZTg4

The Chathams ground is rarely booked if they want a neutral venue.

[Monkey Magic]

The one year blues players would actually be first choice selections and they're potentially in lockdown

[Carter's Choice]

If lockdowns weren't an issue and I was picking this team to play at the end of the month, they would look like this.

The main areas of concern for me are for the SI, is no.8 and the bench props. And for the NI, the challenge was how to fit Savea, MMT and Sotutu into the same XXIII. The North Island has a huge advantage in terms of depth, but all in all two pretty good teams.

North Island

15. Damien McKenzie
14. Sevu Reece
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Beauden Barrett
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
7. Sam Cane
6. Ardie Savea
5. Scott Scrafton
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Dane Coles
1. Karl Tu'inukuafe

16. Asafo Aumua
17. Ayden Johnstone
18. Nepo Laulala
19. Jack Whetton
20. Hoskins Sotutu
21. TJ Perenara
22. Otere Black
23. Anton Lienart-Brown



South Island

15. Jordie Barrett
14. Will Jordan
13. Brayden Ennor
12. Jack Goodhue
11. George Bridge
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Brad Weber

8. Gareth Evans
7. Dillon Hunt
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Paripari Parkinson
3. Tyrell Lomax
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Liam Coltman
17. Alex Hodgman
18. George Bower
19. Quentin Strange
20. Tom Sanders
21. Mitch Drummond
22. Joshua Ioane
23. David Havili

[Gumboot]

Strong squads. God I hope this game goes ahead.

I think eligibility is based on first province represented, so you may have to swap a few players around, AC. For example, Laulala's Canterbury, Goodhue's Northland and Dillon Hunt's North Harbour. At least, those are the provinces they currently represent - no idea if any of them debuted for different provinces tbh.

[mrbrownstone]

If lockdowns weren't an issue and I was picking this team to play at the end of the month, they would look like this.

The main areas of concern for me are for the SI, is no.8 and the bench props. And for the NI, the challenge was how to fit Savea, MMT and Sotutu into the same XXIII. The North Island has a huge advantage in terms of depth, but all in all two pretty good teams.

North Island

15. Damien McKenzie
14. Sevu Reece
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Beauden Barrett
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
7. Sam Cane
6. Ardie Savea
5. Scott Scrafton
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Dane Coles
1. Karl Tu'inukuafe

16. Asafo Aumua
17. Ayden Johnstone
18. Nepo Laulala
19. Jack Whetton
20. Hoskins Sotutu
21. TJ Perenara
22. Otere Black
23. Anton Lienart-Brown



South Island

15. Jordie Barrett
14. Will Jordan
13. Brayden Ennor
12. Jack Goodhue
11. George Bridge
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Brad Weber

8. Gareth Evans
7. Dillon Hunt
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Paripari Parkinson
3. Tyrell Lomax
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Liam Coltman
17. Alex Hodgman
18. George Bower
19. Quentin Strange
20. Tom Sanders
21. Mitch Drummond
22. Joshua Ioane
23. David Havili

Nepo Laulala is SI eligible having debuted for Canterbury. And ALB is in there twice. Otherwise these look about right.

I wonder if, given these are effectively two scratch teams, the SI side might benefit from pre-established combinations, since that back line is basically the Crusaders + Weber & Jordie? A Moody, Taylor, Laulala front row would have played together a fair bit for Canterbury & the Crusaders as well.

[Carter's Choice]

Thanks for the feedback gents. Nepo Laulala being SI eligible is a really good thing (how could I forget that he won multiple titles for Canterbury?) as I had two LH props on the SI bench previously with Hodgman and Bower.

@ Gumboot, Dillon Hunt made his provincial debut for Otago and Goodhue for Canterbury.

North Island

15. Damien McKenzie
14. Sevu Reece
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Beauden Barrett
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
7. Sam Cane
6. Ardie Savea
5. Scott Scrafton
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Dane Coles
1. Karl Tu'inukuafe

16. Asafo Aumua
17. Ayden Johnstone
18. Nepo Laulala
19. Jack Whetton
20. Hoskins Sotutu
21. TJ Perenara
22. Otere Black
23. Peter Umaga-Jensen



South Island

15. Jordie Barrett
14. Will Jordan
13. Brayden Ennor
12. Jack Goodhue
11. George Bridge
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Brad Weber

8. Gareth Evans
7. Dillon Hunt
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Paripari Parkinson
3. Tyrell Lomax
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Liam Coltman
17. Alex Hodgman
18. Nepo Lauala
19. Quentin Strange
20. Tom Sanders
21. Mitch Drummond
22. Joshua Ioane
23. David Havili

[FujiKiwi]

I wouldn't argue much with those teams. Not to , but I'm surprised Dalton Papalii (Counties Manukau now but debuted for Auckland) hasn't been selected by anyone here. I know we're blessed this year with an over abundance of great loosies, but he still stood out for me. Just to a little more, I'd select him over Cane for the North Island.

[Carter's Choice]

I wouldn't argue much with those teams. Not to , but I'm surprised Dalton Papalii (Counties Manukau now but debuted for Auckland) hasn't been selected by anyone here. I know we're blessed this year with an over abundance of great loosies, but he still stood out for me. Just to a little more, I'd select him over Cane for the North Island.

Lol, you'd leave the All Black captain out of what is effectively an AB trial? I thought I was an anti-Foster troll, but that's just OTT.

[FujiKiwi]

I wouldn't argue much with those teams. Not to , but I'm surprised Dalton Papalii (Counties Manukau now but debuted for Auckland) hasn't been selected by anyone here. I know we're blessed this year with an over abundance of great loosies, but he still stood out for me. Just to a little more, I'd select him over Cane for the North Island.

Lol, you'd leave the All Black captain out of what is effectively an AB trial? I thought I was an anti-Foster troll, but that's just OTT.

I'm perfectly serious. That's what I would do. If I were a selector, Cane wouldn't be an All Black captain.

[FujiKiwi]

If it's a genuine All Black trial, why would Tom Sanders be playing in the match ahead of Papalii?

[Carter's Choice]

If it's a genuine All Black trial, why would Tom Sanders be playing in the match ahead of Papalii?

Tbf Tom Sanders has won as many SR titles as the entire Blues squad combined.

[FujiKiwi]

If it's a genuine All Black trial, why would Tom Sanders be playing in the match ahead of Papalii?

Tbf Tom Sanders has won as many SR titles as the entire Blues squad combined.

Is he as good a player as Dalton Papalii?

[Carter's Choice]

If it's a genuine All Black trial, why would Tom Sanders be playing in the match ahead of Papalii?

Tbf Tom Sanders has won as many SR titles as the entire Blues squad combined.

Is he as good a player as Dalton Papalii?

That's subjective. What isn't subjective is that Tom Sanders is a multiple Super Rugby title winner.

[FujiKiwi]

On principle, a genuine All Black trial should involve the best 46 players in the country. If in your subjective judgment, Tom Sanders is one of them, your projected squads are consistent with the idea that this is an All Black trial, and that's fine.

[Carter's Choice]

On principle, a genuine All Black trial should involve the best 46 players in the country. If in your subjective judgment, Tom Sanders is one of them, your projected squads are consistent with the idea that this is an All Black trial, and that's fine.

I've picked the best eligible squads and there are obviously a few selected players who wouldn't get close to a proper AB trial.

[FujiKiwi]

On principle, a genuine All Black trial should involve the best 46 players in the country. If in your subjective judgment, Tom Sanders is one of them, your projected squads are consistent with the idea that this is an All Black trial, and that's fine.

I've picked the best eligible squads and there are obviously a few selected players who wouldn't get close to a proper AB trial.

Fair enough. But if it's not officially a proper AB trial, why is it so outrageous an idea that Sam Cane not play? We know he's going to tackle like a madman for 80 minutes. We know all about him. If it's only kind of a trial, let's see what Papalii, Sotutu and Savea can do together.

Even accepting he's the captain now, I still think this would be an opportunity to practice some new combinations out there on the park.

[Gumboot]

Squads will be named at midday. If Eden Park's still a no-goer the game will be moved to Wellington. Pretty much agree with the selections discussed so far, but hope there's a surprise or two.

[Gumboot]

I hope Luke Jacobson gets picked. Thought he was very good in his only SRA appearance, and he could certainly do with more game time.

[Ata Rangi]

NORTH SQUAD

Hookers: Asafo Aumua (Wellington), Ash Dixon (Hawke’s Bay) and Kurt Eklund (Auckland).

Props: Alex Fidow (Wellington), Ayden Johnstone (Waikato), Angus Ta’avao (Auckland), Karl Tu’inukuafe (North Harbour) and Ofa Tuungafasi (Auckland).

Locks: Scott Scrafton (Auckland), Patrick Tuipulotu (Auckland and captain) and Tupou Vaa’i (Taranaki).

Loose forwards: Lachlan Boshier (Taranaki), Akira Ioane (Auckland), Dalton Papalii (Auckland), Ardie Savea (Wellington) and Hoskins Sotutu (Auckland).

Halfbacks: TJ Perenara (Wellington), Aaron Smith (Manawatu) and Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi (Taranaki).

First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett (Taranaki).

Midfielders: Rieko Ioane (Auckland), Anton Lienert-Brown (Waikato) and Peter Umaga-Jensen (Wellington).

Outside backs: Caleb Clarke (Auckland), Mitchell Hunt (Auckland), Damian McKenzie (Waikato), Sevu Reece (Waikato) and Mark Telea (North Harbour).

SOUTH SQUAD



Hookers: Liam Coltman (Otago), Andrew Makalio (Tasman) and Codie Taylor (Canterbury).

Props: George Bower (Otago), Alex Hodgman (Canterbury), Nepo Laulala (Canterbury), Tyrel Lomax (Tasman) and Joe Moody (Canterbury).

Locks: Mitchell Dunshea (Canterbury), Manaaki Selby-Rickit (Southland) and Samuel Whitelock (Canterbury and captain).

Loose forwards: Tom Christie (Canterbury), Shannon Frizell (Tasman), Dillon Hunt (Otago), Reed Prinsep (Canterbury) and Tom Sanders (Canterbury).

Halfbacks: Finlay Christie (Tasman), Mitchell Drummond (Canterbury) and Brad Weber (Otago).

First five-eighths: Josh Ioane (Otago) and Richie Mo’unga (Canterbury).

Midfielders: Braydon Ennor (Canterbury), Leicester Faingaanuku (Tasman), Jack Goodhue (Canterbury) and Sio Tomkinson (Otago)

Outside backs: Jordie Barrett (Canterbury), George Bridge (Canterbury) and Will Jordan (Tasman).

[Ted.]

Strong squads. God I hope this game goes ahead.

I think eligibility is based on first province represented, so you may have to swap a few players around, AC. For example, Laulala's Canterbury, Goodhue's Northland and Dillon Hunt's North Harbour. At least, those are the provinces they currently represent - no idea if any of them debuted for different provinces tbh.

It's a bullshit criteria. No doubt some marketing droid who doesn't understand rugby or tribalism has come up with it. NZRU are adept at this sort of balls-up, with no improvement under Robinson, unfortunately.

[Carter's Choice]

Interesting squads. No massive shocks. I think Tahuriorangi is probably lucky to be in the NI squad after very limited opportunities this year, but he's a Chiefs player so he was always going to get a run under Ian Foster's regime.Mitch Hunt's selection as an outside back is also a surprise, I don't think any pundits predicted he'd be in the NI team. It's good to see Alex Hodgman named. He looked brilliant when he first made his debut for Canterbury many years ago but his career has stalled after a great initial impact.

No Sam Cane? I suspect Foster doesn't want his controversial captain's pick to be humiliated in this fixture on live television. Kirifi Du Pleesis is very unlucky in my opinion. He'd be the form 7 in the comp after Hunt.

Overall they have chosen very big squads so no major surprises in terms of inclusions or omissions except for the few listed above.

[Ted.]

I wouldn't argue much with those teams. Not to , but I'm surprised Dalton Papalii (Counties Manukau now but debuted for Auckland) hasn't been selected by anyone here. I know we're blessed this year with an over abundance of great loosies, but he still stood out for me. Just to a little more, I'd select him over Cane for the North Island.

Lol, you'd leave the All Black captain out of what is effectively an AB trial? I thought I was an anti-Foster troll, but that's just OTT.

I'm perfectly serious. That's what I would do. If I were a selector, Cane wouldn't be an All Black captain.

Same. Cane has been poor, though to be fair, I suspect he's still bothered by that neck. If anyone needs a sabbatical, it's him to get sorted out.

[mrbrownstone]

Squads basically as predicted. Really hard to determine a favourite for this one.

On paper I think the South have the stronger front row - Moody, Taylor, Laulala is the incumbent All Blacks combination. Having said that, Tu'ungafasi is probably the form prop in NZ and Aumua is the most exciting young front rower in the country.

Locks are fairly even. Both captains are in very good form, and will be partnered by a less heralded player.

Loose forwards has to be advantage North. Frizell is in career best form, but the other South loosies are either young (Christie) or journeymen. Boshier/Savea/Sotutu is a very strong combination (could easily be Papali'i or Ioane at 6 too).

Halfback is a no contest. North by a mile.

First-five is hard to call. Mo'unga was the form player of the whole competition and is the best 10 in NZ in my opinion, but I'll never discount Barrett.

Midfield is also a coin flip. Maybe South just thanks to the pre-established Goodhue/Ennor combination? ALB/Ioane could be deadly though.

Outside backs also too close to call. Again maybe South just? I'd rate Jordie and Jordan as the form outside backs of SR Aotearoa, and Bridge is the incumbent All Black left winger. Again, DMac/Reece/Clarke could be deadly though.

Benches could be where this game is won, and I think that goes to the North thanks to the likes of TJP, Umaga-Jensen, Ioane, and Ta'avao, although the South have the advantage of established combinations with a strong Canterbury/Crusaders connection, right the way up to Brad Moaar as coach.

[FujiKiwi]

Strong squads.

Mitch Hunt has made things happen all season. DMac has looked uncharacteristically toothless and aimless.

Richie Mo'unga is the best ten in the country by far. Then it's Joshua Ioane then more daylight. The South Island team at a real advantage there.

[Gumboot]

It's a bullshit criteria. No doubt some marketing droid who doesn't understand rugby or tribalism has come up with it. NZRU are adept at this sort of balls-up, with no improvement under Robinson, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's quite odd having a born and bred Southlander like McKenzie playing for the NI.

[Carter's Choice]

It's a bullshit criteria. No doubt some marketing droid who doesn't understand rugby or tribalism has come up with it. NZRU are adept at this sort of balls-up, with no improvement under Robinson, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's quite odd having a born and bred Southlander like McKenzie playing for the NI.

There are anomalies all over the place. However, given the massive population disparity between the Islands I think this selection criteria is as good as any and I hope people get behind the concept. We want an even contest.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

So I gather the critics would prefer the criteria be school first XV.

[Carter's Choice]

So I gather the critics would prefer the criteria be school first XV.

Or where individual players were conceived?

[Gumboot]

It is what it is, I'm just happy if the game goes ahead.

Disappointed that Jacobson missed out, but happy that Tupou Vaa'i got picked - think he's got a huge future. No Quentin Strange, though...

[Carter's Choice]

It is what it is, I'm just happy if the game goes ahead.

Disappointed that Jacobson missed out, but happy that Tupou Vaa'i got picked - think he's got a huge future. No Quentin Strange, though...

Interestingly, I though Ah Koui showed more this year than his locking partner Va'ai.

[Kiwias]

TTT surely should consider himself lucky to be there ahead of Bryn Hall.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

So I gather the critics would prefer the criteria be school first XV.

Or where individual players were conceived?

[mrbrownstone]

TTT surely should consider himself lucky to be there ahead of Bryn Hall.

Agreed, but surely he's just glorified injury cover with Smith and TJP there.

Looks like the selectors are just doubling down after wasting most of 2018 investing in him. If they want an eye on developing the future I'd rather Folau Fakatava get a taste of this environment.

[Gumboot]

It is what it is, I'm just happy if the game goes ahead.

Disappointed that Jacobson missed out, but happy that Tupou Vaa'i got picked - think he's got a huge future. No Quentin Strange, though...

Interestingly, I though Ah Koui showed more this year than his locking partner Va'ai.

Both great young prospects. I assume Ah Koui's still out injured?

[Gumboot]

TTT surely should consider himself lucky to be there ahead of Bryn Hall.

Agreed, but surely he's just glorified injury cover with Smith and TJP there.

Looks like the selectors are just doubling down after wasting most of 2018 investing in him. If they want an eye on developing the future I'd rather Folau Fakatava get a taste of this environment.

Harsh. He was playing very well at the time and clearly ahead of Weber, but was badly out of shape when he started 2019 , and Weber was starting to really hit his straps. Agree that he's lucky to picked this time, though.