Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:21 am
Potentially a very good 12. We had some hopes for him.
He apparently had a stormer yesterday for the West Walians, hopefully Jiffy Jnr can partner John Bleddyn Rhys Williams soon.
His main issue has been injuries, if he can keep fit he's a very good player
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:53 pm
by Raggs
Was thinking the same with regards to Jones picking him now.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:01 am
by Kawazaki
Caught up with the Saracens v Quins game. A regulation win for Sarries although they will be disappointed they dropped their effort after the win was guaranteed.
Sam Crean caught my eye at loosehead, he was playing level 3 for Bishop's Stortford last year aged 18. Saracens academy product naturally. He also demonstrated how to carry the ball up into contact and get the offload away at the expense of a player who has never learned the skill. The benefits of a well run academy are so manifest whenever you watch Saracens.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:21 am
by SaintK
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:01 am
Caught up with the Saracens v Quins game. A regulation win for Sarries although they will be disappointed they dropped their effort after the win was guaranteed.
Sam Crean caught my eye at loosehead, he was playing level 3 for Bishop's Stortford last year aged 18. Saracens academy product naturally. He also demonstrated how to carry the ball up into contact and get the offload away at the expense of a player who has never learned the skill. The benefits of a well run academy are so manifest whenever you watch Saracens.
He's from the mini/junior section at Medway RFC in Rochester who play in London1S
Mike Hynard does a very good job with the Saracens Academy
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:25 am
by JM2K6
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:01 amHe also demonstrated how to carry the ball up into contact and get the offload away at the expense of a player who has never learned the skill.
One of the stranger things you've ever written
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:35 am
by sockwithaticket
1 second google to find Billy executing a more spectacular offload
I like this new twist to the Toga schtick, though. Slag a Sarries player to praise another.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:37 am
by JM2K6
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:35 am
1 second google to find Billy executing a more spectacular offload
I like this new twist to the Toga schtick, though. Slag a Sarries player to praise another.
"At the expense of" suggests it's the tackler he's slagging off rather than the player he offloads to. Which would be far more Toga's schtick, but also an amazing self-own regardless.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:55 am
by Kawazaki
Sit down
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:56 am
by Kawazaki
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:35 am
1 second google to find Billy executing a more spectacular offload
I like this new twist to the Toga schtick, though. Slag a Sarries player to praise another.
You are the Richard Hammond of the board.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:03 am
by JM2K6
MiKe BrOwN cAnT oFfLoAd says famous rugby expert
Enjoy the championship!
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:10 am
by Kawazaki
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:03 am
MiKe BrOwN cAnT oFfLoAd says famous rugby expert
Enjoy the championship!
Dodgy source tbf.
Also helps to offload in front of your forwards rather than 30 yards behind them.
Enjoy mediocrity!
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:23 am
by JM2K6
ah yes, the player who was notorious for not making ground in contact or breaking tackles - and loads of offloads get thrown behind the gain line of course
shame you never learned the skill of quitting while you're behind, but your masochistic streak won't let you I suppose
As a result, Brown finished the regular Premiership season as the top offloading player in England and even made more yards in attack (1188) than Saracens Alex Goode (1167).
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:27 am
by Kawazaki
Comparison with the much derided (by you) Alex Goode now? You'll be comparing him with Marcus Rose next.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am
by JM2K6
"Yes JM, I was right. Mike Brown is in fact an excellent offloader, and suggesting he just gets stuck behind the gain line does not match reality. I apologise - I was too busy trying to bait you and ended up baiting myself"
You're welcome, Toga.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:34 am
by Kawazaki
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am
"Yes JM, I was right. Mike Brown is in fact an excellent offloader, and suggesting he just gets stuck behind the gain line does not match reality. I apologise - I was too busy trying to bait you and ended up baiting myself"
You're welcome, Toga.
Thinking Mike Brown is shite is hardly a novel opinion. The article even references it! Lets be honest, he has never had anything 'excellent' in his skillset, although his angry face is world-class tbf.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:36 am
by JM2K6
Are you trying to humiliate yourself or is it a subconscious thing?
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:35 am
1 second google to find Billy executing a more spectacular offload
I like this new twist to the Toga schtick, though. Slag a Sarries player to praise another.
"At the expense of" suggests it's the tackler he's slagging off rather than the player he offloads to. Which would be far more Toga's schtick, but also an amazing self-own regardless.
Ah, I hadn't clocked it was Brown being run over until those stills. Makes more sense now. Thought it might've been his way of conceding that Billy's become a bit of a straight forward bosher in recent times while still waving his Saracens flag with vigour.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:41 am
by Kawazaki
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:36 am
Are you trying to humiliate yourself or is it a subconscious thing?
I can't do hubris like a Quins fan can I will grant you that.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:35 am
1 second google to find Billy executing a more spectacular offload
I like this new twist to the Toga schtick, though. Slag a Sarries player to praise another.
"At the expense of" suggests it's the tackler he's slagging off rather than the player he offloads to. Which would be far more Toga's schtick, but also an amazing self-own regardless.
Ah, I hadn't clocked it was Brown being run over until those stills. Makes more sense now. Thought it might've been his way of conceding that Billy's become a bit of a straight forward bosher in recent times while still waving his Saracens flag with vigour.
Thought he was very poor against Harlequins.Not very good at the base of the scrum and driven back a number of times.
Looks unfit and carrying too much timber
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:56 am
by sockwithaticket
SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 am
Thought he was very poor against Harlequins.Not very good at the base of the scrum and driven back a number of times.
Looks unfit and carrying too much timber
Can't say I paid too much attention to the Quins game, it wasn't the greatest of spectacles for most of it, but that doesn't surprise me. He's been pretty underwhelming for a lot of the last couple of years at least tbh. We've seen what he can be at his peak and he's been way off that for a while.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:00 pm
by Kawazaki
SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 am
Thought he was very poor against Harlequins.Not very good at the base of the scrum and driven back a number of times.
Looks unfit and carrying too much timber
'Very poor' is a bit harsh I think. He still attracts more defenders than just about any other forward in the league, and that alone can be enough to disupt patterns, spacing, line-speed etc even if he never gets the ball. He did very well for the first try, his running line got at least three Quins defenders to turn their hips in (including the winger) which made the try for Maitland very easy.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:10 pm
by JM2K6
Uh, he carried a metre down the blindside of a maul, got tackled round the legs by the 7, but managed to offload to Maitland before going to ground.
The winger was definitely turned in but you make it sound like it was some great line he picked as opposed to a regulation carry with a good offload stapled on top (and a defensive error by Earle, obviously).
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm
by Kawazaki
Exactly, even a short carry attracts three defenders. Well spotted.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:34 pm
by JM2K6
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm
Exactly, even a short carry attracts three defenders. Well spotted.
It attacted one defender - the tackler, who stopped him - and the winger was caught ball watching.
The bit to praise here is the offload, because a player carrying close to the line is going to attract defenders. That's just how it works. Literally any player breaking down the blindside of a maul is going to attract defenders.
It was a good offload though! More of that, please.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:40 pm
by Kawazaki
His line makes the offload possible. Surprised these fundamentals pass you by.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:44 pm
by JM2K6
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:40 pm
His line makes the offload possible. Surprised these fundamentals pass you by.
That makes no sense. He's simply running towards the line and gets tackled almost immediately. What makes the offload possible: it's a leg tackle, so the arms are free, and the winger is caught ball watching. It's a defensive error.
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:40 pm
His line makes the offload possible. Surprised these fundamentals pass you by.
That makes no sense. He's simply running towards the line and gets tackled almost immediately. What makes the offload possible: it's a leg tackle, so the arms are free, and the winger is caught ball watching. It's a defensive error.
There's really no need to over-egg this.
You're really not paying attention. Move the defender, create the space, pass in the space created. The u10s I coach understand this.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:51 pm
by JM2K6
Run off back of maul directly into defender, get stopped, offload.
It's a regulation bit of play that you'd expect from any forward, but the offload deserved praise. Billy did not do anything to manipulate the defence except try and run over a defender which he wasn't able to do. There's literally no reason to be talking this up so much.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:52 pm
by Kawazaki
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:51 pm
Run off back of maul directly into defender, get stopped, offload.
It's a regulation bit of play that you'd expect from any forward, but the offload deserved praise. Billy did not do anything to manipulate the defence except try and run over a defender which he wasn't able to do. There's literally no reason to be talking this up so much.
SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 am
Thought he was very poor against Harlequins.Not very good at the base of the scrum and driven back a number of times.
Looks unfit and carrying too much timber
'Very poor' is a bit harsh I think. He still attracts more defenders than just about any other forward in the league, and that alone can be enough to disupt patterns, spacing, line-speed etc even if he never gets the ball. He did very well for the first try, his running line got at least three Quins defenders to turn their hips in (including the winger) which made the try for Maitland very easy.
Maybe so, but he needs to do far more than just that. He really didn't look match fit at all
He certainly wouldn't be making my England backrow on his current showing
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:51 pm
Run off back of maul directly into defender, get stopped, offload.
It's a regulation bit of play that you'd expect from any forward, but the offload deserved praise. Billy did not do anything to manipulate the defence except try and run over a defender which he wasn't able to do. There's literally no reason to be talking this up so much.
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:51 pm
Run off back of maul directly into defender, get stopped, offload.
It's a regulation bit of play that you'd expect from any forward, but the offload deserved praise. Billy did not do anything to manipulate the defence except try and run over a defender which he wasn't able to do. There's literally no reason to be talking this up so much.
He doesn't try to run over the defender at all.
The video is right there!
I know, which makes it all the more surprising that you can't see his line move the defender(s).
SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 am
Thought he was very poor against Harlequins.Not very good at the base of the scrum and driven back a number of times.
Looks unfit and carrying too much timber
'Very poor' is a bit harsh I think. He still attracts more defenders than just about any other forward in the league, and that alone can be enough to disupt patterns, spacing, line-speed etc even if he never gets the ball. He did very well for the first try, his running line got at least three Quins defenders to turn their hips in (including the winger) which made the try for Maitland very easy.
Maybe so, but he needs to do far more than just that. He really didn't look match fit at all
He certainly wouldn't be making my England backrow on his current showing
He needs games to get fit I think. Jack Willis and Tom Curry are the form flankers. Not sure any English 8s are really showing a great deal more than Billy yet though.
I know, which makes it all the more surprising that you can't see his line move the defender(s).
Toga, seriously: he simply runs off the back of the maul - the bit you can see in the screenshot - at a defender and gets immediately hit - which you can see in the screenshot - and manages to get his arms free and offload. His 'line' is just "I want to try and score" - he's trying to carry heavy to the line. Saying he doesn't try and run over the defender when he's trying to run directly through him - which you can see in the screenshot - is bonkers.
Earle just did an early-years Ashton.
You're trying so, so hard here. It's not a piece of play that demands this level of gushing.
I know, which makes it all the more surprising that you can't see his line move the defender(s).
Toga, seriously: he simply runs off the back of the maul - the bit you can see in the screenshot - at a defender and gets immediately hit - which you can see in the screenshot - and manages to get his arms free and offload. His 'line' is just "I want to try and score" - he's trying to carry heavy to the line. Saying he doesn't try and run over the defender when he's trying to run directly through him - which you can see in the screenshot - is bonkers.
Earle just did an early-years Ashton.
You're trying so, so hard here. It's not a piece of play that demands this level of gushing.
Using a still from a video (and the side view at that) to try and convince that his line was through and over the defender.
