The Official English Rugby Thread

[SaintK]

Launch has fully ruptured his ACL apparently. Guess we won't be seeing him 'til the end of the year at the earliest.

Really gutted for him. Was probably an outside bet for the Lions this time around, but he's a lot beefier than many of the other locks apparently in contention so probably had as good a chance as anyone who didn't play in the 6Ns and having been snubbed last time it would've been nice to see him get a shot. Even if he didn't go it would've been great to have him back in a white shirt for the summer tests, he was sorely missed in the 6Ns.

Poor bugger!
Wasps look so much better when he's playing and leading

[Hal Jordan]

At least he isn't going to lose any of his pace as a result of the injury.

A big loss for Wasps, and England. In the case of the latter, it's a step down from him to the squad replacements, especially if Lawes or Itoje aren't available either. Same with Underhill.

[Kawazaki]

At least he isn't going to lose any of his pace as a result of the injury.

A big loss for Wasps, and England. In the case of the latter, it's a step down from him to the squad replacements, especially if Lawes or Itoje aren't available either. Same with Underhill.

Kruis is rejoining Saracens...


...for the 22/23 season when he'll be 33 years old. Could still make the RWC.

[Hal Jordan]

33 is definitely not too old for a lock, if he's still got the legs and the physicality I would have him back in the squad like a shot.

[Happyhooker]

pity, he looked like he was coming back strongly as well. i'd love to see a stat for england and wasps as to how many people have scored tries with him driving them over the line, he's a very intelligent player.

oh, and whoever made the joke about not losing his pace should really try and get hold of some stats, he's fucking ungainly, but actually has a decent turn of pace for a lock. not itoje/lawes, but better than most of the rest

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, that sounds about right. The guys on the Quins board are trying to make out that it can't be a red card, that "if it was so bad why wasn't Rona checked for a HIA, eh??", etc, but the bare facts are: he deliberately struck Rona in the jaw with his forearm. He did it hard enough to rock his head back. He did it without major provocation or any other mitigating factors. And he's twatted someone in the face before, quite recently.

Yes, it wasn't like he threw a haymaker or fractured Rona's cheek or anything, but it's a clear red card and I'm not sure the relative lack of force is going to make this a particularly short ban. Obviously I won't mind if it does, but I think we're looking at 4-6 weeks at least, almost entirely because of his previous crime being so similar (if much worse).

Just saw he contested the charge and ended up copping the full 6 weeks. Not sure that was the wisest course of action

[JM2K6]

Yeah, that sounds about right. The guys on the Quins board are trying to make out that it can't be a red card, that "if it was so bad why wasn't Rona checked for a HIA, eh??", etc, but the bare facts are: he deliberately struck Rona in the jaw with his forearm. He did it hard enough to rock his head back. He did it without major provocation or any other mitigating factors. And he's twatted someone in the face before, quite recently.

Yes, it wasn't like he threw a haymaker or fractured Rona's cheek or anything, but it's a clear red card and I'm not sure the relative lack of force is going to make this a particularly short ban. Obviously I won't mind if it does, but I think we're looking at 4-6 weeks at least, almost entirely because of his previous crime being so similar (if much worse).

Just saw he contested the charge and ended up copping the full 6 weeks. Not sure that was the wisest course of action

I figure the club decided that he'd miss all our crunch games if he'd pleaded guilty and went for the Hail Mary. As it was, he DIDN'T get his previous offence added to 'aggravation' - just disallowing mitigation - so it was a misjudgment. Either way, some pretty comical attempts to defend it. And so you don't have to, have some of the funnier comments from the fans:

I think that there is an arguement that this decision is bringing the game into disrepute. No common sense applied as far as I can see to the decision making process. You have to ask yourselves - is this sort of panel convening over what was clearly a minor scuffle good for the image of the game?

Should have plead guilty apologised with mitigation it wasn't elbow and not intentional

What a joke. The top English ref in the country said it was only a yellow card. Ridiculous decision to ban him for 6 weeks

[Margin__Walker]

Nothing surprises me these days. It's soft, but it's a pretty unambiguous red card.

LI have picked up a few reds this year for dodgy tackles that I thought were unfortunate but fair enough, but some just go off at the deep end and see conspiracy in everything.

Mentioned it the other day but the Bath board last month when Dunn was red carded for elbowing Creevy was hilarious. Full on tinfoil hat stuff. Centred around Dunn being targeted and was about to be brutally taken out off the ball, so was just protecting himself. Southern hemisphere tactics etc. In reality Creevy was running a half hearted dummy line and was slowing to a stop in front of Dunn. The type of innocuous interaction that happens a dozen times a game.

The funny thing was that they barely mentioned the thing that would have annoyed me in their position, which was Creevy staying on the floor just long enough for the TMO to notice.

[Monk]

weird stuff compared to what Farrell got away with just the other day

[SaintK]

weird stuff compared to what Farrell got away with just the other day

No TMO or citing officer at Championship matches
Surprised it didn't get picked up on the subsequent referee review as the match was streamed and recorded

[Raggs]

So rumour is that Sam Simmonds is off to the lions. I'm quite pleased with that actually. I'm not convinced he's an international player, but this way Eddie doesn't take him, the spot goes to someone I'll hopefully rather see, however Simmonds still has what will hopefully be a good chance to prove me wrong.

[Raggs]

I'd like to thank Gatland for taking away Eddie's options :).

No Hill, no Lawes, no Daly, no Farrell. Happy with that.

Simmonds gets a chance to prove himself too.

[tc27]

Anyone hard done by? Possibly Sinckler?

[Raggs]

Anyone hard done by? Possibly Sinckler?

Sinckler for sure. And whichever of the home nations wants to be upset about Jonny Hill. And the same could perhaps be said for Daly.

Oh, and Ford, but that was always expected.

[tc27]

Anyone hard done by? Possibly Sinckler?

Sinckler for sure. And whichever of the home nations wants to be upset about Jonny Hill. And the same could perhaps be said for Daly.

Oh, and Ford, but that was always expected.

Possibly May?

[JM2K6]

May's in terrrible form and he's always been a streaky player. Ford is a big oversight IMO, especially if Gatland wants to play the kicking game. Johnny Hill's England career so far can be largely summed up with the word "moronic", so he's a very lucky boy considering how good Gray has been. Mako, Daly, etc picked on faith.

[Kawazaki]

Anyone hard done by? Possibly Sinckler?

Underhill.

[Raggs]

As much as I love May, I do think he's starting to slide unfortunately.

It's an unsurprising squad to some degree for me (not suggesting I could have picked it before). Gatland picking Gatlandball players (for the most part), and not going highly creative. There's no time for a creative backline to all get on the same wavelength, it'd be madness. Simple gameplan, "simple" players. Yes you can develop a few moves, but you're never going to be able to get free flowing offloads where people just know where the others are.

So what does that leave us for England's Summer?

[JM2K6]

Ford at 10 with Smith as backup. Might give Youngs a rest and give Robson the shirt (unlikely) which means probably Spencer as the next option, but he has occasionally picked a kid here so perhaps van Poortfliet or Mitchell.

Front row, Marler unlikely to travel? So Genge, Obano. Need a new pair of hookers, so Dunn and Singleton perhaps (maybe Yeandle; difficult to know which way he would lean, i.e. try and develop a real future option or just bring some experience). Sinckler and Stuart as TH options.

Second rows... Launchbury won't be fit, so we're actually really short here. Ewels will probably start. Ribbans should be the other guy. Then all bets are off as to who else gets in, maybe that Tigers child again? Underhill will go as 7, Ted Hill might get another shot at 6, Billy probably goes as 8, maybe with Dombrandt as an option, so space for some more back rows. Centres are "who knows" territory (genuinely would consider Northmore at 13, though he'll pick Marchant ahead of him). Wings similar - May will go, but he has a lot of options for the other wing. Malins at FB, maybe another look at Furbank or perhaps looking at one of the new kids on the block in Freeman/Parton/Steward.

Probably missed some really obvious calls in there.

Edit: Ben Earl, for one.

[Kawazaki]

Ford at 10 with Smith as backup. Might give Youngs a rest and give Robson the shirt (unlikely) which means probably Spencer as the next option, but he has occasionally picked a kid here so perhaps van Poortfliet or Mitchell.

Front row, Marler unlikely to travel? So Genge, Obano. Need a new pair of hookers, so Dunn and Singleton perhaps (maybe Yeandle; difficult to know which way he would lean, i.e. try and develop a real future option or just bring some experience). Sinckler and Stuart as TH options.

Second rows... Launchbury won't be fit, so we're actually really short here. Ewels will probably start. Ribbans should be the other guy. Then all bets are off as to who else gets in, maybe that Tigers child again? Underhill will go as 7, Ted Hill might get another shot at 6, Billy probably goes as 8, maybe with Dombrandt as an option, so space for some more back rows. Centres are "who knows" territory (genuinely would consider Northmore at 13, though he'll pick Marchant ahead of him). Wings similar - May will go, but he has a lot of options for the other wing. Malins at FB, maybe another look at Furbank or perhaps looking at one of the new kids on the block in Freeman/Parton/Steward.

Probably missed some really obvious calls in there.

Edit: Ben Earl, for one.

It's Barbeary fit again?

[JM2K6]

No idea, but good shout.

Forgot Slade is available. He'll probably look at Piers Francis again at 12.

[sockwithaticket]

You'd have to think Lawrence will be one of the centres touring, not sure about playing. Maybe Devoto gets a call up? Eddie's tried to use him before, but been foiled by injuries or a ban.

Second row is worryingly devoid of stand outs after Ribbans.

One of Mitchell, Randall or van Poortfliet will be scrapping it out for 3rd scrum half spot. It would be fantastic if Youngs ruled himself out of the England games too.

Hassell-Collins has to be looked at for wing. In fact we could do worse than giving the entire Londin irish back three a run out.

[Oxbow]

He's been in solid form lately, but Piers Francis can barely make it through a match these days without one injury or another. Sleightholme is a shout for one of the wing slots if Eddie is looking at youngsters.

[sockwithaticket]

Ford at 10 with Smith as backup. Might give Youngs a rest and give Robson the shirt (unlikely) which means probably Spencer as the next option, but he has occasionally picked a kid here so perhaps van Poortfliet or Mitchell.

Front row, Marler unlikely to travel? So Genge, Obano. Need a new pair of hookers, so Dunn and Singleton perhaps (maybe Yeandle; difficult to know which way he would lean, i.e. try and develop a real future option or just bring some experience). Sinckler and Stuart as TH options.

Second rows... Launchbury won't be fit, so we're actually really short here. Ewels will probably start. Ribbans should be the other guy. Then all bets are off as to who else gets in, maybe that Tigers child again? Underhill will go as 7, Ted Hill might get another shot at 6, Billy probably goes as 8, maybe with Dombrandt as an option, so space for some more back rows. Centres are "who knows" territory (genuinely would consider Northmore at 13, though he'll pick Marchant ahead of him). Wings similar - May will go, but he has a lot of options for the other wing. Malins at FB, maybe another look at Furbank or perhaps looking at one of the new kids on the block in Freeman/Parton/Steward.

Probably missed some really obvious calls in there.

Edit: Ben Earl, for one.

It's Barbeary fit again?

Missed the last couple of Prem games with an new injury. Blackett's actually commented about looking at his conditioning program because he's been getting injured quite a lot for such a young player.

[Raggs]

Yeah barbeary seems to be picking up a lot of soft tissue issues.

Odogwu in the centres perhaps.

[Woddy]

Ford at 10 with Smith as backup. Might give Youngs a rest and give Robson the shirt (unlikely) which means probably Spencer as the next option, but he has occasionally picked a kid here so perhaps van Poortfliet or Mitchell.

Front row, Marler unlikely to travel? So Genge, Obano. Need a new pair of hookers, so Dunn and Singleton perhaps (maybe Yeandle; difficult to know which way he would lean, i.e. try and develop a real future option or just bring some experience). Sinckler and Stuart as TH options.

Second rows... Launchbury won't be fit, so we're actually really short here. Ewels will probably start. Ribbans should be the other guy. Then all bets are off as to who else gets in, maybe that Tigers child again? Underhill will go as 7, Ted Hill might get another shot at 6, Billy probably goes as 8, maybe with Dombrandt as an option, so space for some more back rows. Centres are "who knows" territory (genuinely would consider Northmore at 13, though he'll pick Marchant ahead of him). Wings similar - May will go, but he has a lot of options for the other wing. Malins at FB, maybe another look at Furbank or perhaps looking at one of the new kids on the block in Freeman/Parton/Steward.

Probably missed some really obvious calls in there.

Edit: Ben Earl, for one.

BR: Ben Curry? Other Willis?

Wing: Nowell. What's happened to Thornley?

Inside centre is where I'm most interested, to get the Farrell-alternative 12 now that Eddie's forced to pick someone else. Slade? Lozowski? Or will he just play crash-ball until Owen's back?

It's Barbeary fit again?

Missed the last couple of Prem games with an new injury. Blackett's actually commented about looking at his conditioning program because he's been getting injured quite a lot for such a young player.

[Margin__Walker]

You'd have to think Lawrence will be one of the centres touring, not sure about playing. Maybe Devoto gets a call up? Eddie's tried to use him before, but been foiled by injuries or a ban.

Second row is worryingly devoid of stand outs after Ribbans.

One of Mitchell, Randall or van Poortfliet will be scrapping it out for 3rd scrum half spot. It would be fantastic if Youngs ruled himself out of the England games too.

Hassell-Collins has to be looked at for wing. In fact we could do worse than giving the entire Londin irish back three a run out.

Hassell-Collins the front runner as far as the LI back 3 go. He's an absolute weapon and stronger defensively than the other two. That said wouldn't be surprised to see any of them get a call up.

I'd probably be looking at Steward at 15. Not as flashy going forward perhaps, but looks hugely solid and has a great aerial game.

[JM2K6]

Freeman is the most exciting at 15. But Malins should start the matches. OH-C is a good shout.

We could go for a pretty big boshy backline, imagine Ford & Smith directing this backline around: 12 Devoto, 13 Lawrence, 11 OH-C, 14 Odogwu, 15 Steward

[SaintK]

Ford at 10 with Smith as backup. Might give Youngs a rest and give Robson the shirt (unlikely) which means probably Spencer as the next option, but he has occasionally picked a kid here so perhaps van Poortfliet or Mitchell.

Front row, Marler unlikely to travel? So Genge, Obano. Need a new pair of hookers, so Dunn and Singleton perhaps (maybe Yeandle; difficult to know which way he would lean, i.e. try and develop a real future option or just bring some experience). Sinckler and Stuart as TH options.

Second rows... Launchbury won't be fit, so we're actually really short here. Ewels will probably start. Ribbans should be the other guy. Then all bets are off as to who else gets in, maybe that Tigers child again? Underhill will go as 7, Ted Hill might get another shot at 6, Billy probably goes as 8, maybe with Dombrandt as an option, so space for some more back rows. Centres are "who knows" territory (genuinely would consider Northmore at 13, though he'll pick Marchant ahead of him). Wings similar - May will go, but he has a lot of options for the other wing. Malins at FB, maybe another look at Furbank or perhaps looking at one of the new kids on the block in Freeman/Parton/Steward.

Probably missed some really obvious calls in there.

Edit: Ben Earl, for one.

Reallly doesn't look up to international standard and currently injured I think. I would rather give some experience to one of either Langdon from Sale or Capon from Bears

[Kawazaki]

You'd have to think Lawrence will be one of the centres touring, not sure about playing. Maybe Devoto gets a call up? Eddie's tried to use him before, but been foiled by injuries or a ban.

Second row is worryingly devoid of stand outs after Ribbans.

One of Mitchell, Randall or van Poortfliet will be scrapping it out for 3rd scrum half spot. It would be fantastic if Youngs ruled himself out of the England games too.

Hassell-Collins has to be looked at for wing. In fact we could do worse than giving the entire Londin irish back three a run out.

The Sarries locks, Isiekwe and Kpoku are in with a shout assuming fuckwit Jones can change his mind.

[SaintK]

Freeman is the most exciting at 15. But Malins should start the matches. OH-C is a good shout.

We could go for a pretty big boshy backline, imagine Ford & Smith directing this backline around: 12 Devoto, 13 Lawrence, 11 OH-C, 14 Odogwu, 15 Steward

With Spencer or Robson at 9

[JM2K6]

He might call up the other Sale hooker given Scotland are interested...

Piers O'Conor in with a shout?

[Oxbow]

You'd have to think Lawrence will be one of the centres touring, not sure about playing. Maybe Devoto gets a call up? Eddie's tried to use him before, but been foiled by injuries or a ban.

Second row is worryingly devoid of stand outs after Ribbans.

One of Mitchell, Randall or van Poortfliet will be scrapping it out for 3rd scrum half spot. It would be fantastic if Youngs ruled himself out of the England games too.

Hassell-Collins has to be looked at for wing. In fact we could do worse than giving the entire Londin irish back three a run out.

The Sarries locks, Isiekwe and Kpoku are in with a shout assuming fuckwit Jones can change his mind.

Isiekwe injured a pectoral muscle against Irish last month and needed an operation.

[Margin__Walker]

When it comes to youngish players FB is wide open really with options and in form competition.

Freeman, Furbank, Parton, Steward, David and Malins etc. I guess Malins would be the man in possession at the moment.

As far as prem stats for this season go, the official site has the following in their top performer lists. Huge pinch of salt required as I don't have the inclination to track against minutes played and lots of core FB skills aren't going to show up here.

Clean Breaks
David - 22 (3rd)
Parton - 18 (7th)
Freeman - 15 (16th)

Defenders Beaten
Steward - 43 (8th)
David - 38 (9th)

Metres Made
Parton - 858 (2nd)
David - 732 (9th)
Steward - 725 (10th)

Tries
David - 3
Parton - 3
Furbank - 2
Malins - 2

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/gallag ... yer-stats/

[Margin__Walker]

He might call up the other Sale hooker given Scotland are interested...

Piers O'Conor in with a shout?

You'd think he has a chance. Looks good at pretty much everything you have to be able to do.

[sockwithaticket]

He might call up the other Sale hooker given Scotland are interested...

Piers O'Conor in with a shout?

You'd think he has a chance. Looks good at pretty much everything you have to be able to do.

Great shout, can't believe I forgot about him as I've become a big fan over the course of this season/back end of last.

[sockwithaticket]

You'd have to think Lawrence will be one of the centres touring, not sure about playing. Maybe Devoto gets a call up? Eddie's tried to use him before, but been foiled by injuries or a ban.

Second row is worryingly devoid of stand outs after Ribbans.

One of Mitchell, Randall or van Poortfliet will be scrapping it out for 3rd scrum half spot. It would be fantastic if Youngs ruled himself out of the England games too.

Hassell-Collins has to be looked at for wing. In fact we could do worse than giving the entire Londin irish back three a run out.

The Sarries locks, Isiekwe and Kpoku are in with a shout assuming fuckwit Jones can change his mind.

While Jones hasn't shied away from proven Sarries internationals, I don't think he'd call Kpoku up from the Championship even if Sarries are due to be promoted.

I don't think anyone Eddie's yanked early from a test has been given another shot yet, so that's possibly Isiekwe done until the regime changes.

[SaintK]

You'd have to think Lawrence will be one of the centres touring, not sure about playing. Maybe Devoto gets a call up? Eddie's tried to use him before, but been foiled by injuries or a ban.

Second row is worryingly devoid of stand outs after Ribbans.

One of Mitchell, Randall or van Poortfliet will be scrapping it out for 3rd scrum half spot. It would be fantastic if Youngs ruled himself out of the England games too.

Hassell-Collins has to be looked at for wing. In fact we could do worse than giving the entire Londin irish back three a run out.

The Sarries locks, Isiekwe and Kpoku are in with a shout assuming fuckwit Jones can change his mind.

While Jones hasn't shied away from proven Sarries internationals, I don't think he'd call Kpoku up from the Championship even if Sarries are due to be promoted.

I don't think anyone Eddie's yanked early from a test has been given another shot yet, so that's possibly Isiekwe done until the regime changes.

Isiekwe has been on very good form for Saints but mainly at 6. Kpoku made his senior debut more than 2 years ago but hasn't yet kicked on to command a regular starting place!

[Madness]

With some idea of who is going it will be interesting to see what Jones does with the summer tour. Any standby possibilities will want to go to be in contention for the many likely replacements needed by the Lions.

For me

LH - Genge, Obano, Rodd
Hooker - Dunn, SIngleton ??
TH - Sinks, Stuart, Heyes
Lock - Ewels, Isiekwe, Ribbans, ??
Back row - Underhill, Earls, Dombrandt, Hill, ??
9 - Robson, Spencer, Randall
10 - Ford, Smith
Centres - Slade, Manu, Devoto, Lawrence
Back 3 - May, Nowell, Malins, Steward, Loader ??

[Margin__Walker]

The second 10 slot will be interesting. He's pissed about with any number of youngsters in shadow squads there lately, but he surely can't pick any of them for these games over a guy performing as well as Smith is.