NPR

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:24 pm What does amaze me, and please don't think this is a dig because it's not meant that way, it's a genuine "how the fuck is that?" type thing.

England do struggle to produce quality scrum halves from 12 or 13 teams and however many players. I don't mean Phil Vickery, Wilkinson, Johno or Jason Robinson quality in their positions, ie World XV conversation material, I mean, well, really good scrum halves.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am At the real sharp end of the stick, there's no world in which having some 4th choice prem journeyman actively helps England rugby at an international level.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:51 pmI'd argue the Scottish system goes too far the other way. Too few teams, leaving no depth whatsoever!

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:09 pm England players also have rest periods, but when they happen is at the discretion of the clubs.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:17 pm It would be educational to know how many Irish/Welsh/Scottish professionals are currently plying their trade in England - reducing the number of teams would reduce their opportunities as well.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:32 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:09 pm England players also have rest periods, but when they happen is at the discretion of the clubs.

That is the critical point. Here the clubs have no say and supporters of both regularly lament that country is put before club by the SRU.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:53 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:32 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:09 pm England players also have rest periods, but when they happen is at the discretion of the clubs.

That is the critical point. Here the clubs have no say and supporters of both regularly lament that country is put before club by the SRU.

Sure - I'm just surprised that Falcons fans didn't believe it would be that way round in another country!

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:58 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:53 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:32 pm

That is the critical point. Here the clubs have no say and supporters of both regularly lament that country is put before club by the SRU.

Sure - I'm just surprised that Falcons fans didn't believe it would be that way round in another country!

There seems to be a body of English fans almost entirely focussed on their club and the Prem which forms their rugby horizons. The only time they notice rugby outside England it is when their club plays one from another country. Can't fault them for that.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:58 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:53 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:32 pm

That is the critical point. Here the clubs have no say and supporters of both regularly lament that country is put before club by the SRU.

Sure - I'm just surprised that Falcons fans didn't believe it would be that way round in another country!

There seems to be a body of English fans almost entirely focussed on their club and the Prem which forms their rugby horizons. The only time they notice rugby outside England it is when their club plays one from another country. Can't fault them for that.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:05 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:58 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:53 pm

Sure - I'm just surprised that Falcons fans didn't believe it would be that way round in another country!

There seems to be a body of English fans almost entirely focussed on their club and the Prem which forms their rugby horizons. The only time they notice rugby outside England it is when their club plays one from another country. Can't fault them for that.

What's the priority for Scottish fans?

For Ireland and despite our innate ability to fight with ourselves inside a phone box, it's generally green first, everything else after.

Glasgow Warriors have taken a stance against the presence of Native American headdresses and the chanting of the “Tomahawk Chop” from Exeter Chiefs fans ahead of this weekend’s Champions Cup clash at Scotstoun.
The use of the headdress has been a contentious issue in the game throughout the year, with Premiership rivals Wasps calling for a ban of it at matches.
Exeter head coach Rob Baxter was quoted as recently as October by the Guardian as saying that the conversation was a “bit of a non-story” and left it to the club to decide whether to keep the headwear.
While fans are still able to wear the headdress and chant the Tomahawk Chop at Sandy Park, Glasgow has taken it into their own hands to request that neither be present this weekend.
In an open letter from former player and current Managing Director, Al Kellock, the club said that it had taken the decision following consultation with a working group comprised of Native American community members.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:07 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:05 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:58 pm

There seems to be a body of English fans almost entirely focussed on their club and the Prem which forms their rugby horizons. The only time they notice rugby outside England it is when their club plays one from another country. Can't fault them for that.

What's the priority for Scottish fans?

For Ireland and despite our innate ability to fight with ourselves inside a phone box, it's generally green first, everything else after.

I think most of us now recognise that we won't have a successful national side without successful club sides.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:24 pm What does amaze me, and please don't think this is a dig because it's not meant that way, it's a genuine "how the fuck is that?" type thing.

England do struggle to produce quality scrum halves from 12 or 13 teams and however many players. I don't mean Phil Vickery, Wilkinson, Johno or Jason Robinson quality in their positions, ie World XV conversation material, I mean, well, really good scrum halves.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:07 pm
I think most of us now recognise that we won't have a successful national side without successful club sides.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:16 pm

petej wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:53 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:51 pm How is that giant tub of lard Montpelier prop been given a pro contract?

The French teams are noticeably bigger. Exeter did the right thing by keeping playing until Montpellier ran out of gas.

It's always been the best tactic for the non-French sides; against their fatties. Run them until they start flagging; & if you're still within 10 pts, or so; you can still win.

There's still that gap in the fitness in the French sides; & the rest of the NH; & it's dumb not to exploit that.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:04 pm I suppose another way of looking at is the 1XV squad of E, I, S and W are broadly competitive.

The 2nd XV’s would be similar with Scotland and Wales maybe struggling a bit

3rd XV and Scotland are ringing round Friday night to see if they can raise a team and Wales also drop off a fair bit

Scotland don’t have a 4th XV, Wales don’t either, England and Ireland probably still fairy level

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:39 pm No headdresses or chanting for Chiefs fans in Glasgow at the weekend!
I'm sure that the hordes travelling North from Devon will comply!!!

Glasgow Warriors have taken a stance against the presence of Native American headdresses and the chanting of the “Tomahawk Chop” from Exeter Chiefs fans ahead of this weekend’s Champions Cup clash at Scotstoun.
The use of the headdress has been a contentious issue in the game throughout the year, with Premiership rivals Wasps calling for a ban of it at matches.
Exeter head coach Rob Baxter was quoted as recently as October by the Guardian as saying that the conversation was a “bit of a non-story” and left it to the club to decide whether to keep the headwear.
While fans are still able to wear the headdress and chant the Tomahawk Chop at Sandy Park, Glasgow has taken it into their own hands to request that neither be present this weekend.
In an open letter from former player and current Managing Director, Al Kellock, the club said that it had taken the decision following consultation with a working group comprised of Native American community members.

Saracens have been forced to forfeit Saturday’s European Challenge Cup fixture against Pau due to a significant Covid-19 outbreak, leaving Mark McCall’s side struggling to qualify from their pool.
The north London club has closed its training ground and all players and support staff have been isolated following the outbreak. With a number of close contacts also identified and factoring in injuries, Saracens, who lost last weekend’s European opener against Edinburgh, said they were unable to field a 23-man squad against Pau, who have been awarded a 28-0 victory.

Niegs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:34 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:39 pm No headdresses or chanting for Chiefs fans in Glasgow at the weekend!
I'm sure that the hordes travelling North from Devon will comply!!!

Glasgow Warriors have taken a stance against the presence of Native American headdresses and the chanting of the “Tomahawk Chop” from Exeter Chiefs fans ahead of this weekend’s Champions Cup clash at Scotstoun.
The use of the headdress has been a contentious issue in the game throughout the year, with Premiership rivals Wasps calling for a ban of it at matches.
Exeter head coach Rob Baxter was quoted as recently as October by the Guardian as saying that the conversation was a “bit of a non-story” and left it to the club to decide whether to keep the headwear.
While fans are still able to wear the headdress and chant the Tomahawk Chop at Sandy Park, Glasgow has taken it into their own hands to request that neither be present this weekend.
In an open letter from former player and current Managing Director, Al Kellock, the club said that it had taken the decision following consultation with a working group comprised of Native American community members.

Saw that on twitter and one fan, who got a bunch of likes, was so desperate to have his racist cosplay and inoffensive, tribe non-specific chant that he said ALL Exeter fans must turn up with feathered headdresses to make their point.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:39 pm That's Sarries done in Europe this season
They've forfeited their match in Pau due to a mass Covid outbreak.

Saracens have been forced to forfeit Saturday’s European Challenge Cup fixture against Pau due to a significant Covid-19 outbreak, leaving Mark McCall’s side struggling to qualify from their pool.
The north London club has closed its training ground and all players and support staff have been isolated following the outbreak. With a number of close contacts also identified and factoring in injuries, Saracens, who lost last weekend’s European opener against Edinburgh, said they were unable to field a 23-man squad against Pau, who have been awarded a 28-0 victory.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... inst-pau

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:39 pm That's Sarries done in Europe this season
They've forfeited their match in Pau due to a mass Covid outbreak.

Saracens have been forced to forfeit Saturday’s European Challenge Cup fixture against Pau due to a significant Covid-19 outbreak, leaving Mark McCall’s side struggling to qualify from their pool.
The north London club has closed its training ground and all players and support staff have been isolated following the outbreak. With a number of close contacts also identified and factoring in injuries, Saracens, who lost last weekend’s European opener against Edinburgh, said they were unable to field a 23-man squad against Pau, who have been awarded a 28-0 victory.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... inst-pau

weegie01 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:35 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:39 pm That's Sarries done in Europe this season
They've forfeited their match in Pau due to a mass Covid outbreak.

Saracens have been forced to forfeit Saturday’s European Challenge Cup fixture against Pau due to a significant Covid-19 outbreak, leaving Mark McCall’s side struggling to qualify from their pool.
The north London club has closed its training ground and all players and support staff have been isolated following the outbreak. With a number of close contacts also identified and factoring in injuries, Saracens, who lost last weekend’s European opener against Edinburgh, said they were unable to field a 23-man squad against Pau, who have been awarded a 28-0 victory.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... inst-pau

Bugger.

With Edinburgh having beaten Saracens it looked like that gave them an advantage. Saracens forfeiting this may invigorate other challenges.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:25 pm Montpellier awarded a 28-0 against Leinster.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:34 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:25 pm Montpellier awarded a 28-0 against Leinster.

Bit of a curious one as both teams have Covid cases and have been playing chicken all week. Looks like Monty won that one.

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:07 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:34 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:25 pm Montpellier awarded a 28-0 against Leinster.

Bit of a curious one as both teams have Covid cases and have been playing chicken all week. Looks like Monty won that one.

Right, Montpellier 5 cases (no positive case since Monday) vs Leinster 20, bit curious.

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:07 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:34 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:25 pm Montpellier awarded a 28-0 against Leinster.

Bit of a curious one as both teams have Covid cases and have been playing chicken all week. Looks like Monty won that one.

Right, Montpellier 5 cases (no positive case since Monday) vs Leinster 20, bit curious.

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:12 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:07 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:34 pm

Bit of a curious one as both teams have Covid cases and have been playing chicken all week. Looks like Monty won that one.

Right, Montpellier 5 cases (no positive case since Monday) vs Leinster 20, bit curious.

Leinster had clearance to travel from their government, the French gov said no

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:55 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:12 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:07 pm

Right, Montpellier 5 cases (no positive case since Monday) vs Leinster 20, bit curious.

Leinster had clearance to travel from their government, the French gov said no

If that's the case; & Leinster were prepared to field a team; it's ridiculous to give Montpellier a walkover.

Maybe someone should have a word in the ear of the Irish Government, & make sure some French side can't travel; & thus has to give a walkover ?

Is that really how we want to decide qualification ?

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:40 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:55 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:12 pm

Leinster had clearance to travel from their government, the French gov said no

If that's the case; & Leinster were prepared to field a team; it's ridiculous to give Montpellier a walkover.

Maybe someone should have a word in the ear of the Irish Government, & make sure some French side can't travel; & thus has to give a walkover ?

Is that really how we want to decide qualification ?

Looks like it won’t be necessary as the French gov might prohibit the T14 teams to travel to the Uk/ IRE this weekend.
Clubs are asking for a special authorization.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:47 am

Premiership rules
In the Premiership, the rule on foreign players has been amended to come into line with the regulations in European competitions. A maximum of two foreign players can now be in the matchday 23, at all periods during the season.

The level of English Qualified Players (EQP) in the Premiership has been fairly consistent since the inception of the league, and now stands at approximately 70%. This means on average there are approximately 200 English players playing every weekend in the Premiership.

The above is from the premiership rules.

200 players playing every weekend means an average of 15.3 players per team. However Rugby Pass calculated that for the 19/20 season 706 players were contracted to Premiership clubs, so 495 English players in the Premiership, or 38 pre team. Full squad sizes vary from 51 at Ldn Irish to 64 at Wasps. Many of those will be academy players or journeymen "squad players".

There are semi pros and some full times players in the Championship too.

The difference in pool sizes isn't about the amateur game, it's about the number of professional players

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis ... r-2019-20/

Yes, but a ton of journeyman players doesn't make your top level teams better, it just means you have a ton of journeymen players as well. At the real sharp end of the stick, there's no world in which having some 4th choice prem journeyman actively helps England rugby at an international level. Just like having me play in Div 13, doesn't help any team in Div 10 in terms of their quality, we're worlds apart.

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:40 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:55 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:12 pm

Leinster had clearance to travel from their government, the French gov said no

If that's the case; & Leinster were prepared to field a team; it's ridiculous to give Montpellier a walkover.

Maybe someone should have a word in the ear of the Irish Government, & make sure some French side can't travel; & thus has to give a walkover ?

Is that really how we want to decide qualification ?

Looks like it won’t be necessary as the French gov might prohibit the T14 teams to travel to the Uk/ IRE.
Clubs are asking for a special authorization.

robmatic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:18 am

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:40 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:55 pm

If that's the case; & Leinster were prepared to field a team; it's ridiculous to give Montpellier a walkover.

Maybe someone should have a word in the ear of the Irish Government, & make sure some French side can't travel; & thus has to give a walkover ?

Is that really how we want to decide qualification ?

Looks like it won’t be necessary as the French gov might prohibit the T14 teams to travel to the Uk/ IRE.
Clubs are asking for a special authorization.

That would be the European competitions goosed then.