NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:13 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:11 pm England seem to totally ignore how Saracens attack (an attack built around him), for whom he tore apart most of the Premiership. It's radically different to what we're expecting him to do in an England shirt.

Whilst I have some sympathy with that viewpoint, the standard of rugby in the Prem doesn't equate to intl level.

This is fine and I have some sympathy for this also. However England players essentially have to play in the Prem so not sure what else we're comparing it to which is useful, and we hear an awful lot about how one of his main competitors for the jersey tears apart Prem teams from sixth in the table, so there is as there often is with Faz a 'heads I win, tails you lose' aspect to the point. Maybe the Sarries system won't adapt to the international game but it seems odd to pick someone and ask him to do something so radically different to what works so well for him week in week out, particularly as a lot of the same guys are in the England set up (there is also an element of this being true for Smith as well, of course).

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:28 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:50 am

There's plenty to like about Farrell just as it's possible to utterly despair at his failure to clean up his tackle technique. That a rugby player acts like a dick on the pitch really isn't unique to him in any manner, the extent people go to to pretend he is is pretty amusing.

Is anyone claiming he's unique? Repeat offenders for all kinds of stuff are disliked by people, it's not like it means they can't dislike other players at the same time for similar or even entirely different reasons.

Yeah I think Grandpa fairly clearly is

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:01 pm

pjm1 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:45 pm That's a good infographic. I'd argue the "need for deterrent" box now should be ticked - he's been given opportunity to fix it and failed to do so. I'd like to see 6-2+2 on principle but suspect we'll get 6-2+1, especially with the special mitigating circumstances of "RWC approaching".

While there are many, many things we can criticise the RFU for, they actually do a really good job of making disciplinary outcomes available even for incidents at the amateur and semi-pro level.

https://www.englandrugby.com/governance ... /2022-2023

Click on the hyperlinks for any given case and you can read the full judgement, any offences from the Championship and up get an infographic too. Given how clear and easily accessible these are, the level of discussion around high profile incidents in the rugby media is lamentable.



If I was on the panel I'd be saying at least one of the other two Aggravation boxes ought to be ticked because he's not just a recidivist, but a serial one. Thus, max ban for his offence (6) + an extra week or two would seem apt. However, as suggested, a supposedly key England player with a looming World Cup is probably not going to be on the receiving end of that.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:42 pm When is the collective outrage for “it’s too long a ban” or “that’s a joke to get him in the World Cup” bat signal being sent up?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:20 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:02 pm

Yes and no. Certainly Ford has shunted Farrell to 12 a few times over the years, but Farrell's failings at ten can be viewed over time on their own. It's remarkable how much a player who clearly has a very high ceiling in that position for his club and who has had over forty starts at ten for England has produced sub par personal performances. His decision making and execution are both frequently flawed, far beyond what you'd expect from a storied international, let alone with with his legend and status.

Yeah, that’s totally fair.

Tbh, I rushed to make the post you replied to because I think Ford is a super classy player.

Yup, he's the best ten option for England right now. Smith can do things he can't but Ford is an all round player with a world class kicking game who can flick the switch to spark a team at international level. He's exactly what this England team is going to need right now.

I hope he doesn't play a minute of the next warm-up.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm
Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Niegs wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:32 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm
Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Jesus Christos, that coach is a friggin' twat! It's also disconcerting that people seemed to defend him / selectively ignore aggressive behaviour.

I keep teetering over whether or not I want to get involved with governance/development, and it's attitudes like this (not to mention the "game's gone soft" brigade constantly downplaying and even, imo, influencing decision makers away from making the game safer) which both cause me to hesitate... but also want to get in head-first to make sure these pricks get bounced out / the good people have support to usurp them. (It seems a lot of egoist, 'playstation coaches' get the gig because no one else wants it or feels confident too, and I hope to find/support good people to step up or even the bad eggs to change their ways.)

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:13 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:11 pm England seem to totally ignore how Saracens attack (an attack built around him), for whom he tore apart most of the Premiership. It's radically different to what we're expecting him to do in an England shirt.

Whilst I have some sympathy with that viewpoint, the standard of rugby in the Prem doesn't equate to intl level.

This is fine and I have some sympathy for this also. However England players essentially have to play in the Prem so not sure what else we're comparing it to which is useful, and we hear an awful lot about how one of his main competitors for the jersey tears apart Prem teams from sixth in the table, so there is as there often is with Faz a 'heads I win, tails you lose' aspect to the point. Maybe the Sarries system won't adapt to the international game but it seems odd to pick someone and ask him to do something so radically different to what works so well for him week in week out, particularly as a lot of the same guys are in the England set up (there is also an element of this being true for Smith as well, of course).

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:34 pm

Niegs wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:32 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm
Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Jesus Christos, that coach is a friggin' twat! It's also disconcerting that people seemed to defend him / selectively ignore aggressive behaviour.

I keep teetering over whether or not I want to get involved with governance/development, and it's attitudes like this (not to mention the "game's gone soft" brigade constantly downplaying and even, imo, influencing decision makers away from making the game safer) which both cause me to hesitate... but also want to get in head-first to make sure these pricks get bounced out / the good people have support to usurp them. (It seems a lot of egoist, 'playstation coaches' get the gig because no one else wants it or feels confident too, and I hope to find/support good people to step up or even the bad eggs to change their ways.)

Including one witness who just wanted to have another go at the fifteen year old referee

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:48 pm Who given the unusual name and location I wonder if he is the ex-Northants batsman?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:21 pm Simian on the glue again.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:21 pm Simian on the glue again.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:50 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Hah. That one at Olney. Have had a lot of friends and some clients play at Olney over the years and whilst it's very much the epitome of middle class+ English rugby (all Range Rovers and blazers), generally they have also always been old school: "respect the ref son" etc.

I guess there is always the risk of a moron anywhere like that Fullerians dad who tripped an oppos' kid as he was running near the touchline.

Simian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:18 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:21 pm Simian on the glue again.

Fancy glue, but

I do think he is a superb player at the highest level that, for reasons I can’t fathom, hasn’t had the chance to show it

And I’m not English and have zero stake in this stuff.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:45 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:18 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:21 pm Simian on the glue again.

Fancy glue, but

I do think he is a superb player at the highest level that, for reasons I can’t fathom, hasn’t had the chance to show it

And I’m not English and have zero stake in this stuff.

Oh c’mon. If Ford was even standard Steven Donald level (let alone DC) then England fans would be screaming for him the last 2-3 years. Instead they’re backing Smith.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:45 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:18 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:21 pm Simian on the glue again.

Fancy glue, but

I do think he is a superb player at the highest level that, for reasons I can’t fathom, hasn’t had the chance to show it

And I’m not English and have zero stake in this stuff.

Oh c’mon. If Ford was even standard Steven Donald level (let alone DC) then England fans would be screaming for him the last 2-3 years. Instead they’re backing Smith.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:19 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:45 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:18 pm

Fancy glue, but

I do think he is a superb player at the highest level that, for reasons I can’t fathom, hasn’t had the chance to show it

And I’m not English and have zero stake in this stuff.

Oh c’mon. If Ford was even standard Steven Donald level (let alone DC) then England fans would be screaming for him the last 2-3 years. Instead they’re backing Smith.

You're forgetting that most England fans are filthy casuals who barely follow even the national team and whose main memories of a good 10 are Johnny Wilkinson centric. Farrell's the closest thing we have to that (not entirely fair) archetype of solid defence and kicks goals. That combines with them seeing Ford occasionally get run over, but lacking the wherewithall to see what else he offers and know that the 10's role isn't defined by tackling, to denounce him.

I've never known anyone who actually knows anything about rugby who doesn't think Ford's great.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:26 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:50 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Hah. That one at Olney. Have had a lot of friends and some clients play at Olney over the years and whilst it's very much the epitome of middle class+ English rugby (all Range Rovers and blazers), generally they have also always been old school: "respect the ref son" etc.

I guess there is always the risk of a moron anywhere like that Fullerians dad who tripped an oppos' kid as he was running near the touchline.

Yeah we’d play them a lot in the county cup etc (not sure how many Buckinghamshire clubs don’t fall into the Range Rover category!) generally struck me as a proper club and not the kind of place you’d think would put up with that. However junior sections are always a law unto themselves to some extent and the bloke is a solicitor so will have had to report himself to the SRA with potentially career limiting consequences over this, which as the RFU elude to probably helps explain how vehement his defence was.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:21 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:19 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:45 pm

Oh c’mon. If Ford was even standard Steven Donald level (let alone DC) then England fans would be screaming for him the last 2-3 years. Instead they’re backing Smith.

You're forgetting that most England fans are filthy casuals who barely follow even the national team and whose main memories of a good 10 are Johnny Wilkinson centric. Farrell's the closest thing we have to that (not entirely fair) archetype of solid defence and kicks goals. That combines with them seeing Ford occasionally get run over, but lacking the wherewithall to see what else he offers and know that the 10's role isn't defined by tackling, to denounce him.

I've never known anyone who actually knows anything about rugby who doesn't think Ford's great.

You calling me a clueless, shithouse England fan-a-like?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:42 pm It's ok, though, you have now been given the revelation that Ford is in fact the second coming and can join the ranks of the enlightened.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:26 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:50 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:46 pm Been reading quite a few.
1) fuck me there is a lot of homophobic abuse in rugby
2) https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/23/2 ... tDec22.pdf This one has absolutely boiled my blood - what a prick

Hah. That one at Olney. Have had a lot of friends and some clients play at Olney over the years and whilst it's very much the epitome of middle class+ English rugby (all Range Rovers and blazers), generally they have also always been old school: "respect the ref son" etc.

I guess there is always the risk of a moron anywhere like that Fullerians dad who tripped an oppos' kid as he was running near the touchline.

Yeah we’d play them a lot in the county cup etc (not sure how many Buckinghamshire clubs don’t fall into the Range Rover category!) generally struck me as a proper club and not the kind of place you’d think would put up with that. However junior sections are always a law unto themselves to some extent and the bloke is a solicitor so will have had to report himself to the SRA with potentially career limiting consequences over this, which as the RFU elude to probably helps explain how vehement his defence was.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:14 pm



On a serious note now that Sandstorm's been outed, Rugby has to get its shit sorted out regarding rubbish suspensions and inconsistent penalties / suspensions. They've come out spouting about the need to protect the head and fold every time there's a high profile player up facing a review. It's embarrassing.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:33 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:26 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:50 pm

Hah. That one at Olney. Have had a lot of friends and some clients play at Olney over the years and whilst it's very much the epitome of middle class+ English rugby (all Range Rovers and blazers), generally they have also always been old school: "respect the ref son" etc.

I guess there is always the risk of a moron anywhere like that Fullerians dad who tripped an oppos' kid as he was running near the touchline.

Yeah we’d play them a lot in the county cup etc (not sure how many Buckinghamshire clubs don’t fall into the Range Rover category!) generally struck me as a proper club and not the kind of place you’d think would put up with that. However junior sections are always a law unto themselves to some extent and the bloke is a solicitor so will have had to report himself to the SRA with potentially career limiting consequences over this, which as the RFU elude to probably helps explain how vehement his defence was.

I played for Buckingham in the 1970's before they moved out of town to Maids Moreton
I can assure that there were no Range Rovers at Bletchley or the newly formed Milton Keynes who changed their name from Newport Pagnell in t5hose days

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:24 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:33 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:26 pm

Yeah we’d play them a lot in the county cup etc (not sure how many Buckinghamshire clubs don’t fall into the Range Rover category!) generally struck me as a proper club and not the kind of place you’d think would put up with that. However junior sections are always a law unto themselves to some extent and the bloke is a solicitor so will have had to report himself to the SRA with potentially career limiting consequences over this, which as the RFU elude to probably helps explain how vehement his defence was.

I played for Buckingham in the 1970's before they moved out of town to Maids Moreton
I can assure that there were no Range Rovers at Bletchley or the newly formed Milton Keynes who changed their name from Newport Pagnell in t5hose days

I didn't get around to pointing this out to Paddington i.e. Bucks excluding Milton Keynes!

FWIW, Milton Keynes did not change it's name from Newport Pagnell. It was re-formed from Wolverton Rugby (after a long hiatus between the Wars) by a PE teacher at the then grammar school (Ced Parry). Until then, being a railway town, most played football but those more in the professional classes played cricket. They played on a recreation field in Wolverton, HQ'd in a pub and used the railway work's bath house for ablutions. Later they played as MK in a sh*thole new estate called Greenleys before it was sold for housing and they then relocated to a slightly less rough, but equally soulless lego-land estate at Emerson Valley. These days, most serious rugby people in the area will play for Bletchley or Ampthill.

I was at Bletchley Rugby on Sunday and worryingly mass lego-land housing is being built at a rate of knots towards their pitches. One wonders how long before MK Council shafts them too for some backhanders from builders.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:39 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:24 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:33 am
I played for Buckingham in the 1970's before they moved out of town to Maids Moreton
I can assure that there were no Range Rovers at Bletchley or the newly formed Milton Keynes who changed their name from Newport Pagnell in t5hose days

I didn't get around to pointing this out to Paddington i.e. Bucks excluding Milton Keynes!

FWIW, Milton Keynes did not change it's name from Newport Pagnell. It was re-formed from Wolverton Rugby (after a long hiatus between the Wars) by a PE teacher at the then grammar school (Ced Parry). Until then, being a railway town, most played football but those more in the professional classes played cricket. They played on a recreation field in Wolverton, HQ'd in a pub and used the railway work's bath house for ablutions. Later they played as MK in a sh*thole new estate called Greenleys before it was sold for housing and they then relocated to a slightly less rough, but equally soulless lego-land estate at Emerson Valley. These days, most serious rugby people in the area will play for Bletchley or Ampthill.

I was at Bletchley Rugby on Sunday and worryingly mass lego-land housing is being built at a rate of knots towards their pitches. One wonders how long before MK Council shafts them too for some backhanders from builders.

Yeah, I've played at Milton Keynes, not the most beautiful surroundings but a nice enough club as I remember.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:24 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:33 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:26 pm

Yeah we’d play them a lot in the county cup etc (not sure how many Buckinghamshire clubs don’t fall into the Range Rover category!) generally struck me as a proper club and not the kind of place you’d think would put up with that. However junior sections are always a law unto themselves to some extent and the bloke is a solicitor so will have had to report himself to the SRA with potentially career limiting consequences over this, which as the RFU elude to probably helps explain how vehement his defence was.

I played for Buckingham in the 1970's before they moved out of town to Maids Moreton
I can assure that there were no Range Rovers at Bletchley or the newly formed Milton Keynes who changed their name from Newport Pagnell in t5hose days

I didn't get around to pointing this out to Paddington i.e. Bucks excluding Milton Keynes!

FWIW, Milton Keynes did not change it's name from Newport Pagnell. It was re-formed from Wolverton Rugby (after a long hiatus between the Wars) by a PE teacher at the then grammar school (Ced Parry). Until then, being a railway town, most played football but those more in the professional classes played cricket. They played on a recreation field in Wolverton, HQ'd in a pub and used the railway work's bath house for ablutions. Later they played as MK in a sh*thole new estate called Greenleys before it was sold for housing and they then relocated to a slightly less rough, but equally soulless lego-land estate at Emerson Valley. These days, most serious rugby people in the area will play for Bletchley or Ampthill.

I was at Bletchley Rugby on Sunday and worryingly mass lego-land housing is being built at a rate of knots towards their pitches. One wonders how long before MK Council shafts them too for some backhanders from builders.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:46 pm He's been cleared. Panel decided the push and change in direction mitigated it down to yellow.

Great news for the England camp who can now continue without disruption.

Absolutely bonkers decision, obviously. Taking my England hat off, this is yet another in a long line of decisions that prove they do not give a fuck about player safety at all.