NPR

Madness wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:18 pm With some idea of who is going it will be interesting to see what Jones does with the summer tour. Any standby possibilities will want to go to be in contention for the many likely replacements needed by the Lions.

For me

LH - Genge, Obano, Rodd
Hooker - Dunn, SIngleton ??
TH - Sinks, Stuart, Heyes/Painter
Lock - Ewels, Isiekwe, Ribbans, ??
Back row - Underhill, Earls, Dombrandt, Hill, ??
9 - Robson, Spencer, Randall
10 - Ford, Smith
Centres - Slade, Manu, Devoto, Lawrence
Back 3 - May, Nowell, Malins, Steward, Loader ??

While you don't necessarily want to go with all newbies, I don't see much value in picking Nowell and Manu. We know what they can do and with the amount of time they've spent injured they'll get more out of a full pre-season with their clubs than playing USA (definite) , Georgia and Romania (rumoured). The national team gets more value out of expanding our options for when they're inevitably injured again

For me

LH - Genge, Obano, Rodd
Hooker - Dunn, Ashman (if we can tempt him...),A.N.Other.
TH - Sinks, Stuart, Heyes/Painter
Lock - Ewels, Ribbans, A.N.Other x 2
Back row - Underhill, Earls, Dombrandt, Hill, B.Curry, T. Willis
9 - Robson, Randall, Mitchell/van Poortvliet
10 - Ford, Smith, Simmonds/Umaga
Centres - Slade, Lawrence, O'Connor, Odogwu
Back 3 - May, Malins, Steward, Loader, Hassell-Collins, Freeman/Furbank, Sleightholme, Parton

Can't take all those back three players, but what an embarassment of riches! Eddie seems to love this Ali Crossdale kid (included in the 6 Nations shadow squad for reasons only our head imp will know), so perhaps he takes a berth.

Lawrence could miss out to Marchant, though I'd be tempted to let Slade have the Summer off and bring both.

Don't think Eddie will take Spencer if he hasn't made use of him prior to now. Mitchell, on the other hand, could well go. I reckon Eddie might bring Ludlam back into the flanker pool. He might also be tempted to bring Barbeary along for squad experience. George Martin probably goes given that Eddie capped him during the 6 Nations, though I've yet to see him do much notable except get carded in the handful of Tigers' games I've seen him feature. For even more Saints I believe Moon and Coles have both been in England training squads at this point, which expands the lock pool a bit, but it really is pretty thin there for genuinely stand out young talent. I feel like I must be missing someone, but simply cannot come up with a decent young hooker.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:39 pm The second 10 slot will be interesting. He's pissed about with any number of youngsters in shadow squads there lately, but he surely can't pick any of them for these games over a guy performing as well as Smith is.

He'll probably call up Charlie Atkinson just to get the media frothing.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:48 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:39 pm The second 10 slot will be interesting. He's pissed about with any number of youngsters in shadow squads there lately, but he surely can't pick any of them for these games over a guy performing as well as Smith is.

He'll probably call up Charlie Atkinson just to get the media frothing.

Nah, Atkinson is past it now. It'll be one of this year's school leavers.

Prem back this weekend. Teams for Newcastle v LI. Odd seeing Fearns on a prem teem sheet again.

You should flog them. That is not a good backline at all.

Yeah, we'll see.

Could do with a performance if we are going to keep up a push for top 6. Not conceding a pen every other scrum would help massively on that front.

Quins v Wasps.

Harlequins Starting XV
1. Joe Marler (219)
2. Scott Baldwin (36)
3. Wilco Louw (22)
4. Matt Symons (57)
5. Stephan Lewies (29) - Captain
6. Tom Lawday (33)
7. Jack Kenningham (7)
8. Alex Dombrandt (70)
9. Danny Care (300)
10. Marcus Smith (104)
11. Cadan Murley (45)
12. Luke Northmore (22)
13. Joe Marchant (106)
14. Tyrone Green (15)
15. Mike Brown (350)

Impact Players
16. Joe Gray (167)
17. Santiagio Garcia Botta (32)
18. Will Collier (182)
19. Dino Lamb (41)
20. Archie White (40)
21. Martin Landajo (30)
22. James Lang (78)
23. Paul Lasike (30)

Unavailable for selection:
Andre Esterhuizen

Unavailable due to injury:
Aaron Morris, Craig Trenier, James Chisholm, Jordan Els, Louis Lynagh, Scott Steele, Will Evans

Wasps (First-team appearances)

15 Rob Miller (121)
14 Zach Kibirige (44)
13 Paolo Odogwu (20)
12 Malakai Fekitoa (34)
11 Josh Bassett (145)
10 Jacob Umaga (45)
9 Dan Robson (132)

1 Tom West (50)
2 Tommy Taylor (88)
3 Kieran Brookes (56)
4 Will Rowlands (108)
5 James Gaskell (136)
6 Brad Shields (48)
7 Thomas Young (136)
8 Tom Willis (37)

Replacements

16 Gabriel Oghre (41)
17 Simon McIntyre (179)
18 Jeff Toomaga-Allen (40)
19 Tim Cardall (26)
20 Ben Morris (41)
21 Will Porter (30)
22 Charlie Atkinson (11)
23 Michael Le Bourgeois (55)

Evans obviously a huge loss for us. I've enjoyed Kenningham's work so far, particularly when carrying, but he's no Evans at the breakdown and I think we'll struggle badly there. Otherwise it's the big call of Northmore at 12 to replaced the banned idiot Esterhuizen. I like how attacking a choice it is, and there's no question he's the form centre beyond Andre, but 12 is new and I was really expecting them to either go for bosh with Lasike or some solidity with Tapuai. His defence is still questionable and he's up against two brutally powerful and agile players.

Strong looking Wasps team too, so this should be good. I have my doubts about how good we are when we're we're missing just a couple of important players - think we're incredibly reliant on Esterhuizen, and Evans has been a revelation. Lewies being back is great news, but we're definitely more of a "team" side than a "squad" side IMO.

I don't accept complaints about missing big players when we're missing Willis and Launchbury :D.

Couldn't call this one. If we continue to grow like we were doing, I expect fireworks, equally, I could see us trying too hard again and just being picked apart with ease. Can't imagine it'll be a low scoring affair either way.

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 12:14 pm I don't accept complaints about missing big players when we're missing Willis and Launchbury :D.

Couldn't call this one. If we continue to grow like we were doing, I expect fireworks, equally, I could see us trying too hard again and just being picked apart with ease. Can't imagine it'll be a low scoring affair either way.

I think I probably didn't explain myself very well. It's not a complaint - it's a very strong team we're able to put out, very close to full strength. I just think we're a much, much worse team when we're missing one or two of a number of players; when they're all there, we're brilliant, but it's a fragile unit and we look a much lesser team when just a couple are missing. It's a criticism of how reliant we are on having almost all our players fit at any one time, and how much of a drop-off there is with the replacements. A classic "very strong 1st XV, weak depth" problem, exacerbated by our our heavy reliance on a few players for very specific tasks.

Would be great if we could develop proper alternatives in some cases but we're not there yet. It's still an incredible turnaround this season so I'm not too surprised or upset by the reality of the situation, and we do have some young talent that might make it.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 12:09 pm
Strong looking Wasps team too

On paper, sure. That's been the case for months though and results really haven't borne it out.

We were 100% going to lose last week, but for Obano's card. Completely changed the game momentum which had been entirely with Bath for basically the whole second half and we were stuck in a now familiar pattern of being hemmed into our third of the pitch and being unable to get out or do much of anything to relieve the pressure.

That said, I think you're right that Esterhuizen and Evans are big losses for Quins and that might equal things up a bit. Would still back Quins for victory on current form, but it's not a certainty.

Kind of excited about a Feikitoa- Odogwu centre partnership, don't think we've seen it before and it'd be great if we could find a way to have both of them on the field that doesn't involve Odogwu being squandered on the wing (although he has to take some blame there, doesn't come looking for work as much as a guy with his power should).

How on earth have the officials contrived to rule out that Murmurivalu try?

Belatedly and after a shed load of Sale penalties/advantages, they have a second man sent to the bin and get a penalty try. 7 and a half minutes with a 2 man advantage. What can Leicester manage? Momentum was starting to shift in their favour anyway.

Never has Sanderson looked more slappable than looking bemused at a leaping deliberate knock in to touch being yellow carded.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 11:47 am You should flog them. That is not a good backline at all.

Newcastle? I thought I was reading a Championship squad list for a second as I didn't recognize any names besides Burrell and thought "He was at Yorkshire or something, wasn't he? Back to League?"

To be fair to them, their wings are decent and Burrell has actually been pretty good as far as blast from the past signings go.

Besides, the weather is crap, so it will be won and lost up front.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:04 pm Belatedly and after a shed load of Sale penalties/advantages, they have a second man sent to the bin and get a penalty try. 7 and a half minutes with a 2 man advantage. What can Leicester manage? Momentum was starting to shift in their favour anyway.

Never has Sanderson looked more slappable than looking bemused at a leaping deliberate knock in to touch being yellow carded.

Slight problem that it didn't go forward. With that and the bizarre call on Muri, two very very strange decisions

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 9:01 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:04 pm Belatedly and after a shed load of Sale penalties/advantages, they have a second man sent to the bin and get a penalty try. 7 and a half minutes with a 2 man advantage. What can Leicester manage? Momentum was starting to shift in their favour anyway.

Never has Sanderson looked more slappable than looking bemused at a leaping deliberate knock in to touch being yellow carded.

Slight problem that it didn't go forward. With that and the bizarre call on Muri, two very very strange decisions

That's why I said knock into touch rather than knock on, afaik you can knock it back and still be carded if it's deemed to have been a deliberate act to stop the opposition getting the ball. Or is that dead ball area only?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 9:44 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 9:01 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:04 pm Belatedly and after a shed load of Sale penalties/advantages, they have a second man sent to the bin and get a penalty try. 7 and a half minutes with a 2 man advantage. What can Leicester manage? Momentum was starting to shift in their favour anyway.

Never has Sanderson looked more slappable than looking bemused at a leaping deliberate knock in to touch being yellow carded.

Slight problem that it didn't go forward. With that and the bizarre call on Muri, two very very strange decisions

That's why I said knock into touch rather than knock on, afaik you can knock it back and still be carded if it's deemed to have been a deliberate act to stop the opposition getting the ball. Or is that dead ball area only?

Oh, fair point. You can't deliberately throw the ball into touch, so that's a reasonable call. But I do think in this particular case it would be an extraordinary call to say that's what James was doing rather than just trying to catch it / deflect it so that the attacking player misses it, especially given how far he was from the touchline.

Niegs wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 3:50 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 11:47 am You should flog them. That is not a good backline at all.

Newcastle? I thought I was reading a Championship squad list for a second as I didn't recognize any names besides Burrell and thought "He was at Yorkshire or something, wasn't he? Back to League?"

He was woeful in league by all accounts, so back he came.

Saints v Glaws pretty poor fare
Saints seem to have reverted to last season's form!!!

Absolute garbage from Saints so far.

Oxbow wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 1:46 pm Absolute garbage from Saints so far.

Yeo, utter shite
Haven't looked like scoring a point in an hour

Switched off, just not worth the time and effort today.

Only 1 team out there actually wants to be out there

Newcastle 14 - 15 London Irish at HT

Newcastle pack against the LI backs at the moment. Could go either way, Parton and Loader with the LI tries, Mcguigan and Robinson in for the home team.

Saints were bizarre. Even worse than Quins last time out. Just one of those days I guess.

Just seen the score. What on earth went on there?

Saints were decent the other week when they beat us.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 2:56 pm Newcastle 14 - 15 London Irish at HT

Newcastle pack against the LI backs at the moment. Could go either way, Parton and Loader with the LI tries, Mcguigan and Robinson in for the home team.

Scrap that. LI have Rona binned and concede 3 tries in the first 15 minutes of the half. Complete train wreck

Bristol when put under any pressure are pretty shit, that is why they won't win the premiership, Exeter will win it again.

Tbf those tries didn't really come from anything Bath did in terms of building play and applying pressure. One fluke and one genuine error (intercepts happen).

Scoreline now looks much more like I'd expected it would pre-game.

Edit - might have jinxed them. Continue to be unimpressed by Lloyd. Just the latest in a line of flaky, talented young Welsh players.

Stupid from Dunn.

Ugo needs to STFU. The place for his arm is nowhere near that tackle situation, targeted player is falling to floor with two players on him, so there's no need for Dunn to involve himself. If he does, he can't go in with a dipped shoulder and no attempt to form a wrap. That's an illegal action and he's leaving it up to luck as to whether it has an imapct that'll be noticeable and lead to sanction.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 5:14 pm Stupid from Dunn.

Ugo needs to STFU. The place for his arm is nowhere near that tackle situation, targeted player is falling to floor with two players on him, so there's no need for Dunn to involve himself. If he does, he can't go in with a dipped shoulder and no attempt to form a wrap. That's an illegal action and he's leaving it up to luck as to whether it has an imapct that'll be noticeable and lead to sanction.

Think that is the 2nd red this season for Dunn so he may well miss out on the summer tour! Starting to get a good way down the depth chart at hooker as Singleton is the only capped hooker we have left? Tommy Taylor?

Madness wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:45 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 5:14 pm Stupid from Dunn.

Ugo needs to STFU. The place for his arm is nowhere near that tackle situation, targeted player is falling to floor with two players on him, so there's no need for Dunn to involve himself. If he does, he can't go in with a dipped shoulder and no attempt to form a wrap. That's an illegal action and he's leaving it up to luck as to whether it has an imapct that'll be noticeable and lead to sanction.

Think that is the 2nd red this season for Dunn so he may well miss out on the summer tour! Starting to get a good way down the depth chart at hooker as Singleton is the only capped hooker we have left? Tommy Taylor?

It is indeed, basically the offence too, so you'd imagine he's unlikely to get any mitigation. Might make the tour as that's late June/July iirc, but he won't have played any rugby for a while.

Doubt Taylor would let us down, but he's not quite the player he was pre various injuries.

That knock on looked fairly deliberate, Wayne...

Some nice tries this half, good finish from Odogwu there after Brown's awful deliberate knock.

Welcome, but unusual, to see the yellow card issued even though the try was scored.

Wow. Never seen that before. the advantage played through but still gave the yellow! I'd be a bit upset with that as a Quins fan actually. I'm a bit upset about it anyway. If that sets the precedent, and they're handled like that from now on, OK I'm all for it, but if not, don't like it.

It should be the standard anyway, but with precedent being what it is it would be grating to be on the receiving end of the decision.

Not great to concede while up a man.

If it hadn't been so soon, and quick, could we have had a pen try for that collapsed maul, it was running ahead.

I'm convinced West grounded and Barnes' question to the TMO stiffed us.

We're looking promising in attack, but not making it count.

Robson's on fire. Not entirely sure how we failed to score in the corner from what looked to be a 3/4 on none after his break.

Just think how good a player Mike Brown would be if he ever passed the ball.