NPR

Shit. Umaga should've just booted that off once he got back. It's a narrow lead, but we could've done with Quins going in behind.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 2:58 pm Shit. Umaga should've just booted that off once he got back. It's a narrow lead, but we could've done with Quins going in behind.

He clearly thought he saw something. I'm happy for him to go for it in those situations.

Think that's a really harsh call on Rowlands. Wasn't held, should be a try.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 3:05 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 2:58 pm Shit. Umaga should've just booted that off once he got back. It's a narrow lead, but we could've done with Quins going in behind.

He clearly thought he saw something. I'm happy for him to go for it in those situations.

I dunno, high risk area of the pitch, time up, opposition players about... a bit more caution wouldn't go amiss from our game.

Brown 100% knew what he was doing there, or being more clear, should have. Sad way to go

No excuse for that.

Fuck me that was retarded by Brown, the conspiracy theorist in me could suggest he did it deliberately as a final "fuck you" to Quins

Accidentally on purpose?

Quins showing up strongly after the card and Wasps a little imprecise, perhaps a bit over-excited.

Hell of a game, hard to call a winner

How is that a Quins lineout? That was an obvious high tackle from Green on Bassett.

What an unbelievable game.

Marcus Smith is future world player of the year.

If the pass to Young earlier was forward, so was the one to Marchant.

Best game of the season by some distance. Smith is simply magic at the moment

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm Best game of the season by some distance. Smith is simply magic at the moment

Too talented for England. I personally I think it would be career limiting for him to be selected.

.

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm Best game of the season by some distance. Smith is simply magic at the moment

Well bugger me that was good

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 4:10 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm Best game of the season by some distance. Smith is simply magic at the moment

Too talented for England. I personally I think it would be career limiting for him to be selected

.

Sad to say i have to agree, England game plan of kick and chase under Eddie would just fuck him over . He is a Ferrari right now, England are Skoda

Pretty irritated with Brown. Not sure how deliberate it was, in real time it all happens in a flash and he's off balance, but slowmo seems very unpleasant. Can't argue with the red, although it's always aggravating when niggle/grubbiness gets this level of reward. Players on the floor will keep holding onto legs while they keep getting away with it.

Defensively we were a mess, particularly when Lang came on - he was all over the shop. Teams are also having a lot of success with an offloading game up the middle, and we missed far too many straight up tackles. Wasps dominated that first half and it's mad we went in at half time in the lead, but even madder that we won it. Smith is incredible at the moment. Marchant had another brilliant game, and that's twice in a row he's really stepped up when Quins have had a man sent off. Kenningham made 25+ tackles, missed one, won a turnover, got robbed of a few more (Barnes was almost refusing to give them regardless, it was insane), and made seven carries - not bad for his second start!

Really weird reffing again, agree on the Rowlands try - he was brilliant, btw, almost as influential as Robson - and I was hugely pissed off with the yellow and the try coming from a huge shove before the ball was in on a defensive scrum. Rough game to referee but those moments are not high speed at all.

Think this game and the Irish one showed we've got huge spirit and attacking ability, but we'renot at the same level as the top two, and I think sale are better organised too. Nice to steal a match you didn't deserve to win, but there's only so often you can roll the dice and come up with the goods. Should be good fun next season though with David coming in to add even more pace and attacking class from fullback.

Some boring wins from now on please lads

Incredible game. Smith really is something special, I hope he's looked after by Quins and England.

Great to see Quins dig in and grind out another win down one man. AE's absence is definitely felt in midfield, but at least they know how to cross the line on attack. Big effort up front by the forward too.

The round 21 match against Sale will be very interesting, could be deciding who finishes third.

Honestly don't know whether it's better for Quins to face Bristol or Exeter.

From Ben Cole’s on Twitter: “England 'A' - not the Saxons, for some reason - are back. Will face Scotland 'A' at Welford Road on June 27, before England face USA on July 4 and Canada on July 10 at Twickenham.”

Excited to see some of the potential options that’ll get a chance to play. Just to speculate on who might play, I’d like to see:

Rodd, McGuigan, Heyes, Wells, Beaumont, Hill, Ludlam, T Willis
Van Poortvliet, Simmonds, Loader, Devoto, S James, Radwan, Parton

I'd assumed we were actually going out to North America. Used to enjoy the Churchill Cup games from Fletcher's Fields and Twin Elm etc

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:22 am I'd assumed we were actually going out to North America. Used to enjoy the Churchill Cup games from Fletcher's Fields and Twin Elm etc

That was the original plan, this is the compromise to make sure we get something in. It wasn't that long ago it was being speculated that we'd be playing Georgia and Romania at HQ due to trans-atlantic travel restrictions.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 am Honestly don't know whether it's better for Quins to face Bristol or Exeter.

If i were Quins i would opt for Exeter, Bristol will be an open fast loose game to which i think Bristol have the better personel for, but if Quins plan a fast open game against Exeter, they stand a better chance.

ASMO wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:54 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 am Honestly don't know whether it's better for Quins to face Bristol or Exeter.

If i were Quins i would opt for Exeter, Bristol will be an open fast loose game to which i think Bristol have the better personel for, but if Quins plan a fast open game against Exeter, they stand a better chance.

Yeah, but... you can really get at Bristol as the way they play means they give you chances. If Exeter get on top of your pack - which Wasps did to us for most of the match at the weekend - you're essentially guaranteed to lose as you spend the game getting brutalised on the gain line.

Neither team is perfect and they do have weaknesses. Exeter can really be targeted at the breakdown, but we don't have Will Evans any more. Their scrum halves are all shit, so that's an opportunity. Their scrum isn't all that and we'd definitely fancy our chances there. Not sure if Esterhuizen would be available in time, he'd make a big difference. Bristol on the other hand could tear us to shreds at will sometimes, but they are quite loose, make a lot of errors, and do let in plenty of scores. Either side would be favourites against us, but I'd hope we could make a serious game of it.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:57 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:54 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 am Honestly don't know whether it's better for Quins to face Bristol or Exeter.

If i were Quins i would opt for Exeter, Bristol will be an open fast loose game to which i think Bristol have the better personel for, but if Quins plan a fast open game against Exeter, they stand a better chance.

Yeah, but... you can really get at Bristol as the way they play means they give you chances. If Exeter get on top of your pack - which Wasps did to us for most of the match at the weekend - you're essentially guaranteed to lose as you spend the game getting brutalised on the gain line.

Neither team is perfect and they do have weaknesses. Exeter can really be targeted at the breakdown, but we don't have Will Evans any more. Their scrum halves are all shit, so that's an opportunity. Their scrum isn't all that and we'd definitely fancy our chances there. Not sure if Esterhuizen would be available in time, he'd make a big difference. Bristol on the other hand could tear us to shreds at will sometimes, but they are quite loose, make a lot of errors, and do let in plenty of scores. Either side would be favourites against us, but I'd hope we could make a serious game of it.

Aye. Bristol's approach against Bath over the weekend relied a lot on flat passes and offloads, Bath were up at the interval because Bristol fudged a few of those (one fumble for a kick-through, one interception) but once they got it going in the second half - and their tight play wasn't bad either - they ran away with it. (Although that is probably as much down to to Bath as anything - seemingly incapable of continuing good starts to games for the full 80)

Bath's linespeed certainly helped rush Bristol in the first half, it looks a good way to get at them and force a few errors.

On England 'A', I think that's where we'll see the genuine youngsters / punt choices by Eddie. So IMO we'll see fewer people like Joe Simmonds / Sam James / Ollie Devoto / Josh Beaumont / Lewis Ludlam - the ones where you basically know what you're going to get - and more the unheralded newbies with less pro experience. Devoto I think has a chance with the senior tour anyway.

So yes to Rodd, Heyes, Loader, v Poortvliet/Quirke, Parton - and maybe guys like Luke James, Curtis Langdon, Miles Reid, Freeman, Luke Northmore, Umaga, Sleightholme, etc.

But predicting Eddie's selections for "development" stuff is a difficult task.

inactionman wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 10:21 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:57 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:54 am

If i were Quins i would opt for Exeter, Bristol will be an open fast loose game to which i think Bristol have the better personel for, but if Quins plan a fast open game against Exeter, they stand a better chance.

Yeah, but... you can really get at Bristol as the way they play means they give you chances. If Exeter get on top of your pack - which Wasps did to us for most of the match at the weekend - you're essentially guaranteed to lose as you spend the game getting brutalised on the gain line.

Neither team is perfect and they do have weaknesses. Exeter can really be targeted at the breakdown, but we don't have Will Evans any more. Their scrum halves are all shit, so that's an opportunity. Their scrum isn't all that and we'd definitely fancy our chances there. Not sure if Esterhuizen would be available in time, he'd make a big difference. Bristol on the other hand could tear us to shreds at will sometimes, but they are quite loose, make a lot of errors, and do let in plenty of scores. Either side would be favourites against us, but I'd hope we could make a serious game of it.

Aye. Bristol's approach against Bath over the weekend relied a lot on flat passes and offloads, Bath were up at the interval because Bristol fudged a few of those (one fumble for a kick-through, one interception) but once they got it going in the second half - and their tight play wasn't bad either - they ran away with it. (Although that is probably as much down to to Bath as anything - seemingly incapable of continuing good starts to games for the full 80)

Bath's linespeed certainly helped rush Bristol in the first half, it looks a good way to get at them and force a few errors.

I also think that with Esterhuizen/Evans/Brown all unavailable then the advantage would shift even further to Exeter. Their defensive kicking game is hugely important to them, and Brown's boot, ability in the air, and his physicality all matter hugely against Exeter. Against Bristol, you could put Green there and have the benefit of his raw pace and stepping ability, and his gas might help more in defence too against their real speedsters. Kenningham put in a ridiculous display of tackling and carrying against Wasps, and that sort of work rate would be excellent against both teams, but the drop down in jackal ability from Evans hurts us more against Exeter. And Esterhuizen would be a real threat to Exeter's continuity in midfield, because he hits like a fucking truck, and their defence would struggle more with someone who can actually match them physically; we have no obvious replacement for him right now, hence the musical chairs at 12 at the moment.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 10:39 am On England 'A', I think that's where we'll see the genuine youngsters / punt choices by Eddie. So IMO we'll see fewer people like Joe Simmonds / Sam James / Ollie Devoto / Josh Beaumont / Lewis Ludlam - the ones where you basically know what you're going to get - and more the unheralded newbies with less pro experience. Devoto I think has a chance with the senior tour anyway.

So yes to Rodd, Heyes, Loader, v Poortvliet/Quirke, Parton - and maybe guys like Luke James, Curtis Langdon, Miles Reid, Freeman, Luke Northmore, Umaga, Sleightholme, etc.

But predicting Eddie's selections for "development" stuff is a difficult task.

You forgot Marcus Smith.

Baby steps, don't want to rush him into the Test arena.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 12:30 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 10:39 am On England 'A', I think that's where we'll see the genuine youngsters / punt choices by Eddie. So IMO we'll see fewer people like Joe Simmonds / Sam James / Ollie Devoto / Josh Beaumont / Lewis Ludlam - the ones where you basically know what you're going to get - and more the unheralded newbies with less pro experience. Devoto I think has a chance with the senior tour anyway.

So yes to Rodd, Heyes, Loader, v Poortvliet/Quirke, Parton - and maybe guys like Luke James, Curtis Langdon, Miles Reid, Freeman, Luke Northmore, Umaga, Sleightholme, etc.

But predicting Eddie's selections for "development" stuff is a difficult task.

You forgot Marcus Smith.

Baby steps, don't want to rush him into the Test arena.

Smith is earmarked for the Dan Robson Role of a few minutes here and there for the senior team.

bUt he's HaD 10 caps and DOne NOTHING!

Stooke off to Wasps for next season.


Had a major falling out with backroom at Bath and managed to get busted for drink-driving so was always off at end of season, but leaves Bath quite light at lock - McNally, Ewels, Will Spencer and an occasional Mike Williams.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 10:39 am On England 'A', I think that's where we'll see the genuine youngsters / punt choices by Eddie. So IMO we'll see fewer people like Joe Simmonds / Sam James / Ollie Devoto / Josh Beaumont / Lewis Ludlam - the ones where you basically know what you're going to get - and more the unheralded newbies with less pro experience. Devoto I think has a chance with the senior tour anyway.

So yes to Rodd, Heyes, Loader, v Poortvliet/Quirke, Parton - and maybe guys like Luke James, Curtis Langdon, Miles Reid, Freeman, Luke Northmore, Umaga, Sleightholme, etc.

But predicting Eddie's selections for "development" stuff is a difficult task.

Poor Joe Simmonds - skipped straight from ignored Premiership and European Cup winner to the 'you basically know what you're going to get' pile without even making it into a Jones England squad.

The Jackson Wray Award.

inactionman wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:06 pm Stooke off to Wasps for next season.


Had a major falling out with backroom at Bath and managed to get busted for drink-driving so was always off at end of season, but leaves Bath quite light at lock - McNally, Ewels, Will Spencer and an occasional Mike Williams.

Should go some way to replacing the bulk we lose when Rowlands heads off to The Dragons. We've got Cardall and Vukasinovic behind Gaskell and Launchbury, but neither of them are particularly big, grunty locks.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:13 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 10:39 am On England 'A', I think that's where we'll see the genuine youngsters / punt choices by Eddie. So IMO we'll see fewer people like Joe Simmonds / Sam James / Ollie Devoto / Josh Beaumont / Lewis Ludlam - the ones where you basically know what you're going to get - and more the unheralded newbies with less pro experience. Devoto I think has a chance with the senior tour anyway.

So yes to Rodd, Heyes, Loader, v Poortvliet/Quirke, Parton - and maybe guys like Luke James, Curtis Langdon, Miles Reid, Freeman, Luke Northmore, Umaga, Sleightholme, etc.

But predicting Eddie's selections for "development" stuff is a difficult task.

Poor Joe Simmonds - skipped straight from ignored Premiership and European Cup winner to the 'you basically know what you're going to get' pile without even making it into a Jones England squad.

The Jackson Wray Award.

No, the Jackson Wray award is something completely different - the "looks alright in a star-studded team, always disappears when the going is tough" player.

Joe Simmonds is a fine player who I don't think will get the 'A' game because I think Eddie will use it to look at players who haven't been getting the same opportunities as him. It's not a comment on whether I think he's good enough for the senior team.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 6:12 pm
No, the Jackson Wray award is something completely different - the "looks alright in a star-studded team, always disappears when the going is tough" player.

Joe Simmonds is a fine player who I don't think will get the 'A' game because I think Eddie will use it to look at players who haven't been getting the same opportunities as him. It's not a comment on whether I think he's good enough for the senior team.

Yeah, Saracens were really struggling for a few quid to buy in a world-class 6 to replace him with.


#schalkburgerwassubinecfinal

So was Vincent Koch, are we claiming Titi Lamositele is the better player? Schalk Burger was 36 years old and miles off his international form at the time, mind.

Anyway, back to talking about players who actually deserve international recognition: Joe Simmonds is in an awkward situation as there's little more he can do on the pitch to persuade Eddie to take a look, and he's a more conservative player than Smith which should factor in his favour with the poison dwarf, but I don't think Eddie rates Exeter's success all that much.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:22 pm

inactionman wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:06 pm Stooke off to Wasps for next season.


Had a major falling out with backroom at Bath and managed to get busted for drink-driving so was always off at end of season, but leaves Bath quite light at lock - McNally, Ewels, Will Spencer and an occasional Mike Williams.

Should go some way to replacing the bulk we lose when Rowlands heads off to The Dragons. We've got Cardall and Vukasinovic behind Gaskell and Launchbury, but neither of them are particularly big, grunty locks.

How could you possibly overlook Levi Douglas??

Oh right, the mind attempts to forget truly horrendous memories

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 6:31 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:22 pm

inactionman wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:06 pm Stooke off to Wasps for next season.


Had a major falling out with backroom at Bath and managed to get busted for drink-driving so was always off at end of season, but leaves Bath quite light at lock - McNally, Ewels, Will Spencer and an occasional Mike Williams.

Should go some way to replacing the bulk we lose when Rowlands heads off to The Dragons. We've got Cardall and Vukasinovic behind Gaskell and Launchbury, but neither of them are particularly big, grunty locks.

How could you possibly overlook Levi Douglas??

Oh right, the mind attempts to forget truly horrendous memories

He's gone off to Toulon. Ostensibly as a medical joker for the rest of this season, but the announcement made it sound like he wouldn't be coming back.

But, yes, he's not been a particularly memorable performer, to put it mildly.

Anyone care about us going back to England A for the Saxons?

I'm quite happy, always thought it was a bit naff, especially when everyone else was just [Insert nation] A.

Not sure tagging it as being for the sake of diversity and inclusion was necessary. Primarily because RFU community cuts will have done far more damage there than the name of the national men's second team who barely play and about whom only the most ardent rugby fans will be aware.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 am Anyone care about us going back to England A for the Saxons?

I'm quite happy, always thought it was a bit naff, especially when everyone else was just [Insert nation] A.

Not sure tagging it as being for the sake of diversity and inclusion was necessary. Primarily because RFU community cuts will have done far more damage there than the name of the national men's second team who barely play and about whom only the most ardent rugby fans will be aware.

Little Englanders would be a more appropriate label