The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan

Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here

Because wingers don't get the equivalent of tap-ins all the time or anything. Simmonds at least has to carry through players for his short-range tries - guys like Ashton walk in unopposed half the time.

[JM2K6]

Has Simmonds become a radically better player than he was in 2018?

He has 7 England caps, one good performance against Italy and I can’t remember much else apart from being outmuscled against France and Ireland in the 6 Nations. He’s a great player for the Exeter system but what is his role in the current England team when Eddie doesn’t use his 8 to hang about in the wide channels and is he a dominant enough tackler for Mitchell’s system?

Yes, he's improved (it is 2021 now!) , and his carrying into gigantic people is better - as shown by his displays against massive French clubs. Which is why he ended up Premiership and European player of the year.

Still, against France he came off the bench in the first half and made 57 metres from 9 carries and went 10/1 in defence. Against Ireland he didn't get into the game - only 4 carries in over an hour (14/0 in defence) whereas Robshaw and Haskell were going great guns with the carrying. That to me isn't a physicality problem, just a system one.

His only other start was against Italy, where he carried over 100m and scored 2 tries, but for some reason that one gets handwaved away. If it's so easy to do, why the fuck doesn't Billy do that every time?

[Margin__Walker]

There's no doubt in the world that Simmonds would score fewer tries playing in a less dominant pack.

All the same, there have been plenty of great back rowers playing in dominant packs in the league over the years and no one has been able to do what he's done. There's no one playing in England at the moment (regardless of size) who's as good at getting the ball over the try line from 5 yards out. Then he's also able to take it in from range, which gives him a pretty unique skilllset that you don't see every day. I just can't see him being less effective than 2020/21 Billy in an England team.

[JM2K6]

Oh, sorry, he did make one more start. Against Samoa. Where he made 96m from 18 carries (2 clean breaks, 5 defenders beaten), and went 14/1 in defence against a traditionally weedy team...

I can understand people being not sure if he'll fit Eddie's braindead and one-dimensional gameplan. But his England career at the very least actually says he should've been perservered with.

[sockwithaticket]

Making a similar point to Margin, an awful lot of teams do the pick and go after pick and go thing on the 5m line. I don't think Simmonds' achievement can be diminished because Exeter are better at doing it than anyone else.

It could be that the reason Simmonds is the one to go over all the time and other teams don't have one particular player picking up so many scores from similar situations is that he is exceptional - has a bit of extra power*, knows how to wriggle through the contact in an un-coachable way etc...

*I know some might attribute it to being latched onto by big men like Ewers, but, again, other teams have big men and aren't shy of latching in those pick and go situations.

[JM2K6]

It's kind of like LCD's success at the 5m tap and drive. Everyone's trying to do it now. None of them are getting his level of success.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah, good comparison.

[Happyhooker]

As a slight aside, looking at players who often drive their teammates over, check out the number of times launchbury does that.

I agree that Ashton's point is bollocks, unless we discount any winger's tries that are scored without anyone touching them when they've been shipped the ball inside the 22

[Hal Jordan]

Given that Ashton's playing style was "support play" (run next to whoever does the hard work on the break or offload, catch the ball and run fast), he really should be quiet.

I am aware this is slightly harder than it reads.

[Margin__Walker]

Theo Brophy Clews retires at 24 following his latest spell out with concussion. Real shame for him and there are few players who've been as unlucky with injury as him. Both concussion and seemingly every other injury under the sun since first playing prem rugby at 18. Irony is that he managed his first extended uninjured spell in the team this season in years and looked superb

https://www.london-irish.com/news/theo- ... by/bp2972/

It is with a heavy heart that I write to announce my retirement from professional rugby due to concussion. After receiving advice from the medical staff at London Irish and the Complex Concussion Clinic, it’s clear to me that I cannot continue to play, as I would be putting both my short-term and my long-term health at risk. I think that rugby is an incredibly special sport and it’s been a dream come true to play it professionally.

The memories I’ve made, the people I’ve met and the challenges I’ve had to go through have made my career incredibly fulfilling and special. Rugby has taught me so much, and, most importantly, how to be a decent person and to enjoy the ride, no matter how tough it gets.

There’s obviously a lot of emotion involved in a decision like this. First and foremost, I recognise that my health is the most important thing to consider, I have to accept that I can no longer put my body and my head through the physical challenges required to be a top-level player.

Secondly, I’m hugely grateful for the time I’ve had in the game, the people I’ve shared the pitch with, and being involved in the special community we have in English rugby - more on that later.

Lastly, I’m incredibly sad. While I appreciate that there is so much more to live for and more important issues in the world, I’m really going to miss it. The emotions you go through, the bonds and special memories you make with the people around you, let alone playing the game you love for a living, will all be incredibly tough to leave behind.

There are too many people to thank here, but know if you’ve ever messaged me, watched a game, or played with me, I’m thankful for you and your support. It hit me the other day that there are not many other jobs that you get to earn a living whilst having your family name on your back. I’ve loved representing my whole family every time I ran out onto the pitch. My Mum, Dad, big sister and my girlfriend Melanie have made me who I am and have supported me unwaveringly throughout my life and career. I love them more than anything.

To my teammates, coaches and support staff at school, club, county and England age-grade, thank you. Growing up playing rugby was incredibly fun and rewarding, and there’s so many people who shaped my career at a young age. There are so many people who have improved my life for the better at Newbury RFC, Berkshire, Abingdon School and the national age-grade programme. I will always look back at that time during my development as a rugby player with huge happiness and gratitude.

To everyone at London Irish, I’ve wanted to represent this club since I was a kid and playing over fifty first team games has been one of my proudest achievements. I’ve been part of some massive ups and downs for the club and many brilliant environments, so thank to all the boys, staff, coaches, and supporters for making my time here so special. A special thank you to the two people at the club who had the bravery to tell me what’s important in life, it can’t have been easy, but I really appreciate it.

Finally, to the London Irish supporters and rugby enthusiasts in general. Thank you for supporting us, especially when it hasn’t been easy. You’re the reason we get to play rugby for a living and thank you for allowing us to live our dreams.

If you’ve got this far, I appreciate it. I’m looking forward to the next chapter of my life knowing I’ve been lucky enough to live my dream.

See you soon,

Theo

[JM2K6]

Awful news. Poor guy. Happily he's young enough to learn an entirely new career, but it's still a huge blow.

[sockwithaticket]

Jeez, only 24. Hell of a thing to have to use the word retirement at that age. You'd hope he's getting out early enough that the concussions have no or minimal long term impact. His susceptibility to other injuries suggest this might also be a good long term move for the rest of his body too, though it obviously won''t feel like that at the moment.

[Margin__Walker]

I think there are some players where it's just not going to work. His career was constant rehab and coming back (often looking great and feeling like a new signing) before instantly breaking again. He's a really talented guy, not especially small, but his body just didn't agree with pro rugby.

The concussions though are no joke and he's smart enough to know that playing on is an unnecessary gamble for his long term health.

[SaintK]

I think there are some players where it's just not going to work. His career was constant rehab and coming back (often looking great and feeling like a new signing) before instantly breaking again. He's a really talented guy, not especially small, but his body just didn't agree with pro rugby.

The concussions though are no joke and he's smart enough to know that playing on is an unnecessary gamble for his long term health.

Fingers crossed for the lad

[sockwithaticket]

Tigers were looking to be on top, but Rattez has just managed a really unlikely finish out of nowhere to put Montpellier ahead.

Lozowski at fly half for the (not) Frogs is an interesting selection.

[Torquemada 1420]

Tigers were looking to be on top, but Rattez has just managed a really unlikely finish out of nowhere to put Montpellier ahead.

Lozowski at fly half for the (not) Frogs is an interesting selection.

Esp in the rain on a big pitch. You'd have thought Pollard was an auto-pick in such a scenario.

[sockwithaticket]

Montpellier with a fairly well earned yellow for maul offences.

Tigers proceed to do something I don't understand when any team does it - run a penalty advantage against a reasonably set defence well inside their own half. Just take the kick to touch and get up the field.

[Torquemada 1420]

Given their size and amount of SA intls, MH are utterly clueless at defending rolling mauls and setting their own. Not seen a display as poor as this in years.

[sockwithaticket]

Tigers really don't need to do anything other than maul unless Montpellier figure something out. They've no answer to it at the moment except illegality.

[Torquemada 1420]

Montpellier with a fairly well earned yellow for maul offences.

Tigers proceed to do something I don't understand when any team does it - run a penalty advantage against a reasonably set defence well inside their own half. Just take the kick to touch and get up the field.

TBF, he was pulled down by Cole but they would have got the yellow anyway at the next one.

[sockwithaticket]

Level at the half shouls be a bit concerning for Tigers given their forward dominance at the set piece.

[Torquemada 1420]

Level at the half shouls be a bit concerning for Tigers given their forward dominance at the set piece.

Hope for the Lions because this is a humiliation at the set piece.

[Torquemada 1420]

This is so much a PSA side. All the resources at his disposal but opts for grunt which is executed badly and backs are only there to tackle and kick. Pitiful really.

[Torquemada 1420]

49th minute before Serfontein gets a pass to run with

[Torquemada 1420]

57th minute and players ignore PSA's instructions and try a few passes............ try.

[Torquemada 1420]

And Paillauge's normally good dead ball kicking will cost them dear in the end. I would have made that one!

[Torquemada 1420]

+ it's Brace so any French side already has a 10 point plus handicap to surmount.

[sockwithaticket]

57th minute and players ignore PSA's instructions and try a few passes............ try.

How on earth does he have a coaching role at a (supposedly) top flight club?

[sockwithaticket]

Ugly drop attempt. Right idea when struggling to break the defenced, but probably should have gone through a few more phases.

[I like neeps]

This is not a very good George Ford performance. Leicester so so so limited.

[sockwithaticket]

Clearly been instructed to kick the ever loving shit out of it by Eddie's disciple (Borthwick). A lot of the kicks have been good tbf, last few minutes not so much.

[Torquemada 1420]

Forletta has to be candidate for worst player in T14.

[sockwithaticket]

That's much better, actually trying a bit of attack.

[Torquemada 1420]

57th minute and players ignore PSA's instructions and try a few passes............ try.

How on earth does he have a coaching role at a (supposedly) top flight club?

F**k knows. The man is a repeatedly proven bluffer. Stinks up the place wherever he turns up. About as anti-rugby as it possible to be.

[sockwithaticket]

That was not a turnover pen, Montpellier have got away with one. Could well be the game.

[ASMO]

Wont be unhappy to see Leicester lose this, they have played absolutely no rugby at all.

[Torquemada 1420]

That ending sums up MH. Leicester should leave heads held high given the huge gulf in resource.

[Torquemada 1420]

Wont be unhappy to see Leicester lose this, they have played absolutely no rugby at all.

Neither side has tbf.

[sockwithaticket]

Hopefully that sends Borthwick a message. Tigers are capable of playing some rugby, asking thgem to kick the shit out of it like that all game is just lame.

[Raggs]

Few going off feet at the end there, but Tigers helped them get away with it by throwing bodies into the tackle. One man chop the feet, the rest wait for the turnover, it's your best chance to get someone topple over and seal off.