NPR

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:01 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:55 pm Codling is a serial club-hopper who by all accounts hated Gustard's confrontational style, so christ knows how he's going to get along with Eddie

Mate of mine knows him well and yes he struggled with Gustard's style as did a lot of players and staff it transpires. Not sure why he suddenly left Ealing after rejoining them from Quins.

It's what he does - he's coached at a huge number of clubs in a short space of time. Very rarely stays at any one club for an extended period.

Jones seems to thrive on a large turnover of coaches that aren't exactly in huge demand working under him. Either he doesn't want someone with a big presence who he may see as a challenge to his authority, or the RFU have set a pretty challenging budget and the support coaches are the cheap ones.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:08 pm Jones seems to thrive on a large turnover of coaches that aren't exactly in huge demand working under him. Either he doesn't want someone with a big presence who he may see as a challenge to his authority, or the RFU have set a pretty challenging budget and the support coaches are the cheap ones.

Or he likes to expose players and himself to a lot of new ideas.

Potentially. I'd say though that the level of turnover on display slips into unhelpful territory and probably isn't optimal.

What do I know though. They are the experts

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:50 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:08 pm Jones seems to thrive on a large turnover of coaches that aren't exactly in huge demand working under him. Either he doesn't want someone with a big presence who he may see as a challenge to his authority, or the RFU have set a pretty challenging budget and the support coaches are the cheap ones.

Or he likes to expose players and himself to a lot of new ideas.

Maybe. Codling's ideas don't seem to be a winner, mind

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:05 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:01 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:55 pm Codling is a serial club-hopper who by all accounts hated Gustard's confrontational style, so christ knows how he's going to get along with Eddie

Mate of mine knows him well and yes he struggled with Gustard's style as did a lot of players and staff it transpires. Not sure why he suddenly left Ealing after rejoining them from Quins.

It's what he does - he's coached at a huge number of clubs in a short space of time. Very rarely stays at any one club for an extended period.

From what I hear he had a couple of major personality clashes with people at ealing

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:59 pm Potentially. I'd say though that the level of turnover on display slips into unhelpful territory and probably isn't optimal.

What do I know though. They are the experts

Yeah I'm fairly certain chopping and changing attack coaches is a significant contributor to an attack that all too often looks pretty disjointed.

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:50 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:08 pm Jones seems to thrive on a large turnover of coaches that aren't exactly in huge demand working under him. Either he doesn't want someone with a big presence who he may see as a challenge to his authority, or the RFU have set a pretty challenging budget and the support coaches are the cheap ones.

Or he likes to expose players and himself to a lot of new ideas.

PERVERT!

Ribbans suspended for three games for his high tackle. I know it's only the USA and Canada, but we're down to our eighth-choice lock now?

Oxbow wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:59 am Ribbans suspended for three games for his high tackle. I know it's only the USA and Canada, but we're down to our eighth-choice lock now?

Ah that's a bit of a bugger for him.
Yes, we must be heading towards the bottom end of the barrel,Harry Wells must be in the frame now.

I noticed that Alex Goode was back playing for Saracens in the league. Quite surprised he was back so soon. I assume all the loan players will return as soon as their season ends;

Goode - back already
Lozowski - Montpellier
Malins - Bristol
Earl - Bristol
Isiekwe - Saints
Tompkins - back already

Be good if they can get Skelton and Kruis back as well. Wouldn't be surprised to see Spencer return either at some point. He's going backwards at Bath.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:51 am

Oxbow wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:59 am Ribbans suspended for three games for his high tackle. I know it's only the USA and Canada, but we're down to our eighth-choice lock now?

Ah that's a bit of a bugger for him.
Yes, we must be heading towards the bottom end of the barrel,Harry Wells must be in the frame now.

He's not the future, but if we want someone who'll do a job and is better than many of the younger English options (few of whom look to have an international future, so it's not like denying them a cap), James Gaskell's not the worst shout.

England could put OS and SaintK in the second row and they still wouldn't lose against USA or Canada.

Maybe Attwood gets a cameo from mad Eddie?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:20 pm England could put OS and SaintK in the second row and they still wouldn't lose against USA or Canada.

Maybe Attwood gets a cameo from mad Eddie?

I'm sure my 13.5 stone would come in handy
Beaumont before Attwood if he's not injured again!

Quins confirm leavers at the end of the season -

Known already -

Mike Brown to Newcastle (pension top up)
James Lang and Glen Young to Edinburgh (International ambitions)
Scott Baldwin to Worcester (closer to his family)

Also -

Ben Tapui (centre)
Martin Landajo (scrum half)
Tevita Cavubati (lock)
Nathan Earle (wing)
Brett Herron (fly half)

Hopefully there's a few signings because we're looking skinny at 2, 9 and 10. Steele seems likely to be part of the Scottish team and we've signed Tommaso Allen at 10, so conceivably both he and Smith could be missing during Test windows.

Only ones I'm fussed about are the ones Gustard forced out - Baldwin and Brown. The rest largely aren't good enough for their status in the squad or their wages. One of Quins' biggest problems in the last decade has been failing to get the most out of the squad players who aren't the stars and aren't the good youngsters - we get a lot of dross coming through, or players who used to be good but don't really perform. Very rarely does a player come to Quins and become better later in their career.

Will be very interested to see who we replace these guys with.

Only ones I'm fussed about are the ones Gustard forced out - Baldwin and Brown. The rest largely aren't good enough for their status in the squad or their wages. One of Quins' biggest problems in the last decade has been failing to get the most out of the squad players who aren't the stars and aren't the good youngsters - we get a lot of dross coming through, or players who used to be good but don't really perform. Very rarely does a player come to Quins and become better later in their career.

Will be very interested to see who we replace these guys with.

Pretty sure Italy have moved on at 10 though, so Tommy boy will be available.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm Quins confirm leavers at the end of the season -

Known already -

Mike Brown to Newcastle (pension top up)
James Lang and Glen Young to Edinburgh (International ambitions)
Scott Baldwin to Worcester (closer to his family)

Also -

Ben Tapui (centre)
Martin Landajo (scrum half)
Tevita Cavubati (lock)
Nathan Earle (wing)
Brett Herron (fly half)

Hopefully there's a few signings because we're looking skinny at 2, 9 and 10. Steele seems likely to be part of the Scottish team and we've signed Tommaso Allen at 10, so conceivably both he and Smith could be missing during Test windows.

Don't understand the Nathan Earle one! Thought he only re-signed last season and had been playing quite regularly.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:47 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm Quins confirm leavers at the end of the season -

Known already -

Mike Brown to Newcastle (pension top up)
James Lang and Glen Young to Edinburgh (International ambitions)
Scott Baldwin to Worcester (closer to his family)

Also -

Ben Tapui (centre)
Martin Landajo (scrum half)
Tevita Cavubati (lock)
Nathan Earle (wing)
Brett Herron (fly half)

Hopefully there's a few signings because we're looking skinny at 2, 9 and 10. Steele seems likely to be part of the Scottish team and we've signed Tommaso Allen at 10, so conceivably both he and Smith could be missing during Test windows.

Don't understand the Nathan Earle one! Thought he only re-signed last season and had been playing quite regularly.

If it helps, he's been shite all season when fit and we've never seen the best of him. He's injury prone and doesn't really back up what I would assume are pretty hefty wages, and he's not any better than the wings we have now or the youngsters waiting to come through.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:48 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:47 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm Quins confirm leavers at the end of the season -

Known already -

Mike Brown to Newcastle (pension top up)
James Lang and Glen Young to Edinburgh (International ambitions)
Scott Baldwin to Worcester (closer to his family)

Also -

Ben Tapui (centre)
Martin Landajo (scrum half)
Tevita Cavubati (lock)
Nathan Earle (wing)
Brett Herron (fly half)

Hopefully there's a few signings because we're looking skinny at 2, 9 and 10. Steele seems likely to be part of the Scottish team and we've signed Tommaso Allen at 10, so conceivably both he and Smith could be missing during Test windows.

Don't understand the Nathan Earle one! Thought he only re-signed last season and had been playing quite regularly.

If it helps, he's been shite all season when fit and we've never seen the best of him. He's injury prone and doesn't really back up what I would assume are pretty hefty wages, and he's not any better than the wings we have now or the youngsters waiting to come through.

Fair call!!!

Earle is such a strange one as there's a really good, really high impact player in there somewhere waiting to break free. He's an absolute unit too. But he plays like someone still waiting to work out what it is that makes a top-quality winger.

Anyway in a couple of seasons it'll be the Cassius Cleaves show

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:54 pm Earle is such a strange one as there's a really good, really high impact player in there somewhere waiting to break free. He's an absolute unit too. But he plays like someone still waiting to work out what it is that makes a top-quality winger.

Anyway in a couple of seasons it'll be the Cassius Cleaves show

How soon Oscar Beard is forgotten.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:32 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:54 pm Earle is such a strange one as there's a really good, really high impact player in there somewhere waiting to break free. He's an absolute unit too. But he plays like someone still waiting to work out what it is that makes a top-quality winger.

Anyway in a couple of seasons it'll be the Cassius Cleaves show

How soon Oscar Beard is forgotten.

Cleaves looks incredible. Orisanya looks pretty handy too. Not seen much of Beard tbh (didn't bother watching the Sale game) and I hear he's more of a 13 anyway.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:32 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:54 pm Earle is such a strange one as there's a really good, really high impact player in there somewhere waiting to break free. He's an absolute unit too. But he plays like someone still waiting to work out what it is that makes a top-quality winger.

Anyway in a couple of seasons it'll be the Cassius Cleaves show

How soon Oscar Beard is forgotten.

Cleaves looks incredible. Orisanya looks pretty handy too. Not seen much of Beard tbh (didn't bother watching the Sale game) and I hear he's more of a 13 anyway.

He was helped off injured just after half time against Sale. Was mainly one way traffic so difficult to see his full potential.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:54 pm Earle is such a strange one as there's a really good, really high impact player in there somewhere waiting to break free. He's an absolute unit too. But he plays like someone still waiting to work out what it is that makes a top-quality winger.

Anyway in a couple of seasons it'll be the Cassius Cleaves show

Providing he doesn't turn out to be the next Ibitoye.

The balance between bringing in experience and promoting from the academy is difficult. O'Shea won a lot with a significantly homegrown team and then doubled down on the strategy which saw us progress steadily down the table for a few seasons.

While I have no idea what players salaries are, I'm sorry to see Tapuai go. He always looked solid to me. Earle was probably on bigger money and has struggled to regain form. I thought he looked well worth it when he arrived.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:21 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:54 pm Earle is such a strange one as there's a really good, really high impact player in there somewhere waiting to break free. He's an absolute unit too. But he plays like someone still waiting to work out what it is that makes a top-quality winger.

Anyway in a couple of seasons it'll be the Cassius Cleaves show

Providing he doesn't turn out to be the next Ibitoye.

The balance between bringing in experience and promoting from the academy is difficult. O'Shea won a lot with a significantly homegrown team and then doubled down on the strategy which saw us progress steadily down the table for a few seasons.

While I have no idea what players salaries are, I'm sorry to see Tapuai go. He always looked solid to me. Earle was probably on bigger money and has struggled to regain form. I thought he looked well worth it when he arrived.

He has way better hands than Ibitoye ever managed. Poor Gabs was a bizarrely one-dimensional player, even if that one dimension was just incredible running.

Tapuai I found very disappointing, a very limited player given his credentials. But he's the guy I want playing 12 until Andre is back, because he ties the backline together nicely and sets a target.

Training squad minus Lions and Premiership semi-finalists...

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... week-squad

FORWARDS

Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Trevor Davison (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Lewis Ludlow (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
Chunya Munga (London Irish, uncapped)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)
Miles Reid (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Sean Robinson (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Jack Singleton (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
Harry Wells (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Tom Willis (Wasps, uncapped)

BACKS

Josh Bassett (Wasps, uncapped)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Tom de Glanville (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, uncapped)
Dan Kelly (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Tom Parton (London Irish, uncapped)
Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 12 caps)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)


Not much you can say about that, apart from being a little surprised that Freeman & Sleightholme don't feature. Probably a few more good players missing out.

Read this morning that Freeman needs minor knee surgery at the end of the season, that's probably why he misses out. Sleightholme I'm not sure, unless it's to do with his HIA against Exeter. Thought Eddie might pick Ribbans just for the hell of it.

On a different note, I see that Brookes is leaving Wasps at the end of the season. A one club man he is not.

Definitely need Ludlow and Ludlum starting in the back row to really screw the commentators.

Might be missing something but I can only see 2 hookers in that lot of forwards?

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:51 am Might be missing something but I can only see 2 hookers in that lot of forwards?

He's picked three scrum halves so has to have at least one position where he refuses to consider more than two people

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:06 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:51 am Might be missing something but I can only see 2 hookers in that lot of forwards?

He's picked three scrum halves so has to have at least one position where he refuses to consider more than two people

Yes, quite!
Been impressed with Blamire when I've seen him though somewhat surprised that McGuigan who is 1st choice at Falcons hasn't made the squad.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:29 am Definitely need Ludlow and Ludlum starting in the back row to really screw the commentators.

And the strength of the backrow.

Is that Steve Ojomoh's laddie in that squad?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:18 pm Is that Steve Ojomoh's laddie in that squad?

Yes.
Think he only made his Bath debut last weekend. Looks very promising

Not going to really specualte on many selections while a third of the Prem's top teams can't contribute. Very pleased for Bassett, though. One of my favourite players and while he may go no further than this, it's a nice moment of recognition.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:18 pm Is that Steve Ojomoh's laddie in that squad?

Yep. Surprised to see him tbh. Even by Eddie's occasionally cradle snatching standards he's inexperienced at Prem level. George Martin with his 6 starts before being capped was a veteran by comparison.

Cheers.

I liked Steve Ojomoh as a player, I'll look out for the youngster.

But gawd I'm feeling old, Ojomoh Snr is younger than me

From what I saw of Ojomoh he's a serious talent, but yeah, very George Martin selection

Very pleased for Bassett and Radwan.

Both deserved.

Isiekwe must have fucked Eddie's pooch.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm Cheers.

I liked Steve Ojomoh as a player, I'll look out for the youngster.

But gawd I'm feeling old, Ojomoh Snr is younger than me

A good friend of mine played against Ojomoh in an U21s game back in the day. My mate was a very very good Orrell flanker, tough as teak, North divisional honours, played RL for St.Pats in Wigan etc etc. He told me Ojomoh was the best he played against at that level, 'The Nigerian Nightmare' he called him!