NPR

Well, they lasted longer than expected.

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:47 am All done and a fiver for Richardson.

So where do England go now? What are they going to do with Leach - surely they have to get him back in the starting 11. Did they miss Wood - does Woakes make way....??

Will the rest of the tour carry on with rising Covid cases??

They've backed themselves into a corner. Woakes isn't doing it with the ball, but neither is anyone else and they need his batting(!). By rights he should be dropped but it's just as likely Wood will injure himself and take no wickets.

Leach will never perform for England with the total lack of faith in him, it's a two way street for a spinner.

Lawrence to come in for Pope and do largely the same thing...

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:54 am

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:47 am All done and a fiver for Richardson.

So where do England go now? What are they going to do with Leach - surely they have to get him back in the starting 11. Did they miss Wood - does Woakes make way....??

Will the rest of the tour carry on with rising Covid cases??

They've backed themselves into a corner. Woakes isn't doing it with the ball, but neither is anyone else and they need his batting(!). By rights he should be dropped but it's just as likely Wood will injure himself and take no wickets.

Leach will never perform for England with the total lack of faith in him, it's a two way street for a spinner.

Lawrence to come in for Pope and do largely the same thing...

Do you think that if Buttler has another 50/50 display behind the stumps he might be 'rested'? He's never really nailed the gloves in test cricket.

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:59 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:54 am

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:47 am All done and a fiver for Richardson.

So where do England go now? What are they going to do with Leach - surely they have to get him back in the starting 11. Did they miss Wood - does Woakes make way....??

Will the rest of the tour carry on with rising Covid cases??

They've backed themselves into a corner. Woakes isn't doing it with the ball, but neither is anyone else and they need his batting(!). By rights he should be dropped but it's just as likely Wood will injure himself and take no wickets.

Leach will never perform for England with the total lack of faith in him, it's a two way street for a spinner.

Lawrence to come in for Pope and do largely the same thing...

Do you think that if Buttler has another 50/50 display behind the stumps he might be 'rested'? He's never really nailed the gloves in test cricket.

Sure. For Bairstow. Who's even worse with the gloves and will get bowled by every half decent fast bowler.

He keeps just doing enough to avoid the bullet... Foakes must be so frustrated.

I don't know what you do about 6. Bairstow is in the tried and proven mediocre bracket - he's pretty much a white ball specialist at this point, and I just don't believe he's suddenly going to turn an average of 33.7 into averaging 40+ from now on .

Pope & Crawley at least have the theoretical potential to make it, but they have been given so many chances... I do not understand what's going on with Pope. A 1st class average of 52.4 should mean that there's serious potential there (in stark contrast to Crawley's 31.3...) even allowing for a bit of a road at the Oval.

Bowlers... I don't think you can afford the luxury of Broad and Anderson. Not enough overs in their legs, and the batting is fragile enough already. I'd probably go Woakes, Wood, Robinson, Broad. Consider Bess for Woakes, though there were slight signs in this test that Woakes is finding a bit of penetration with the ball.

Shouldn't kid ourselves that this was anything but embarrassing given the flat state of the pitch. Buttler Woakes et all should be commended for showing a bit of fight but that's essentially the bare minimum. We've been told this was the whole focus for England, it would come out right in the end etc, and this is what we get. Series essentially over before Christmas.

Same issues every game. I can accept us not being a great side, but I can't accept professional sportsmen doing the same thing in every test, failing and then doing it again. The top order batting is simply disgraceful and has been for a while now, probably the worst England has ever had. Silverwood should be on borrowed time to say the least.

Yup, downside of getting complete control is it's quite clear who takes the can. England look lacking in direction & focus, and selection looks all over the place, which is all on him now.

The thing is I really can't discern an obvious strategy. I keep being told it exists but the evidence for it is vanishingly thin.

Burns' last innings will probably get him another shot. Although who would replace him - and/or Hameed?

Fair to say that the only players who are on the list in ink are Root, Malan, Stokes and Robinson?

Would it be worth throwing the gloves to Pope and dropping either Buttler, Anderson or Broad for Leach and/or Woods?

I don't know - England seem to have got themselves into a hole where each alternative for the 6/7 slot is no better than the player being replaced. Would Buttler do better at batting if he didn't have the concentration of keeping wickets as well?

Pope's an even worse keeper than Bairstow. I'd give Foakes a go if I wanted Buttler not to keep.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:41 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:24 pm The modern batsmen struggle to dug in and defend for days like Atherton and Boycott.

Blame it on the mik en moer modern day cricket.

Nowadays it's easier batting at 10 a over then bat time out.

Now you understand why English batsmen are so bad at test cricket. The first class game has been completely sidelined in favour of limited overs cricket, and is now played in conditions completely unsuited to developing proper technique.

1000% this.

Mahoney wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:14 am Pope's an even worse keeper than Bairstow. I'd give Foakes a go if I wanted Buttler not to keep.

Yep - but I don't think Foakes is even in the squad is he?

I thought he was out there with the A squad.

Boycott goes to town
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/202 ... -englands/

Mahoney wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:37 am I thought he was out there with the A squad.

Ah, I see that the Lions have all gone home (apart from Bess who is in the main squad): https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/engl ... on-1293341

In that case I think Buttler has to keep the gloves as the least bad option.

No tickets made available for first Test between Proteas and India in Centurion


Johannesburg — No more than 750 people — all suite holders or sponsors — will be allowed into SuperSport Park for the first Test between South Africa and India next week.

There will be no tickets sold to the general public as CSA along with the host union, Northerns, adhere to strict requirements amidst the increase in Covid-19 figures, driven mostly by the Omicron variant.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:05 pm No tickets made available for first Test between Proteas and India in Centurion


Johannesburg — No more than 750 people — all suite holders or sponsors — will be allowed into SuperSport Park for the first Test between South Africa and India next week.

There will be no tickets sold to the general public as CSA along with the host union, Northerns, adhere to strict requirements amidst the increase in Covid-19 figures, driven mostly by the Omicron variant.

Someone needs to tell Calcucunt that it’s not just UK Govt that is restricting holiday activities in SA.

You still pretending to be a Saffa?

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:49 am Well, they lasted longer than expected.

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:49 am Well, they lasted longer than expected.

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

We shouldn't take much heart from it at all, they did the bare minimum there. No one got 50 and we never really looked like batting the day.

Nortje out of the series. Big blow, but in Olivier we have a very similar replacement.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:49 am Well, they lasted longer than expected.

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

We shouldn't take much heart from it at all, they did the bare minimum there. No one got 50 and we never really looked like batting the day.

Indeed, only an idiot would try and claim that a loss by 275 runs with another 21 overs still left to play constitutes a 'moral victory'.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:49 am Well, they lasted longer than expected.

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

Moral victory

In my opinion, the problem with England's battling stands on the 5th day was that it didn't feature any of the actual batsmen.
That really needed to be Pope and Stokes battling away rather than Woakes and Buttler.

The bowling isn't really looking too bad, although obviously you would rather have a really fast guy in the team (Wood) and a spinner (Leach).
They need to get someone else into the batting lineup. Lawrence?

I would see it as a win for any of the top 6 (other than Malan or Root) to get 30, or say at least bat for an hour.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:49 am Well, they lasted longer than expected.

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

Assume this is sarcasm?

England in total meltdown now and biting own tail
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/202 ... shes-test/

Ponting helps stir the frenzy
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/202 ... criticism/

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:00 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:49 am Well, they lasted longer than expected.

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

Assume this is sarcasm?

No, its Rinky trying to justify his previous suggestion that Australia should have enforced the follow on.

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:00 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

Assume this is sarcasm?

No, its Rinky trying to justify his previous suggestion that Australia should have enforced the follow on.

The result was a massacre.

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:18 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

We shouldn't take much heart from it at all, they did the bare minimum there. No one got 50 and we never really looked like batting the day.

Indeed, only an idiot would try and claim that a loss by 275 runs with another 21 overs still left to play constitutes a 'moral victory'.

Allow me to introduce you to Welsh rugby fans.

Nortje out.
IOL

The Proteas were dealt a massive blow on the eve of the Test series against India with fast bowler Anrich Nortje was ruled out of all three Tests with injury.

It is believed the ailment is in Nortje's hip with team management, describing it as "persistent."

Nortje is South Africa's leading wicket taker in Tests this year with 25 wickets in five matches, including two five-fors.
Nortje's absence leaves the door open for Duanne Olivier to make a return to the starting XI for the first time in two years. Olivier, has been the outstanding bowler in the Four-Day series, picking up 28 wickets for the Imperial Lions at an average of just 11.10.

The first Test starts at SuperSport Park on Boxing Day.

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:00 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

Assume this is sarcasm?

No, its Rinky trying to justify his previous suggestion that Australia should have enforced the follow on.

I just assumed that it was a deal with the tv companies to get some play on day 5. Of course I could be wrong.

Dismal reading
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59761497

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:44 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:00 pm

Assume this is sarcasm?

No, its Rinky trying to justify his previous suggestion that Australia should have enforced the follow on.

I just assumed that it was a deal with the tv companies to get some play on day 5. Of course I could be wrong.

When last did teams force the follow on?

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:33 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:44 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:05 pm

No, its Rinky trying to justify his previous suggestion that Australia should have enforced the follow on.

I just assumed that it was a deal with the tv companies to get some play on day 5. Of course I could be wrong.

When last did teams force the follow on?

2015 ashes I think is the last time. Michael Clarke's last game as skipper. Don't know of any since

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:19 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:33 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:44 pm

I just assumed that it was a deal with the tv companies to get some play on day 5. Of course I could be wrong.

When last did teams force the follow on?

2015 ashes I think is the last time. Michael Clarke's last game as skipper. Don't know of any since

It can backfire batting last. Stupid risk to take

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:18 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:43 am

This.

Moral victory for the English and they should take a lot of heart from their rearguard. Without Root"s injury, they might have saved the test.

I can't help but feel that not enforcing the folow on was an error.

We shouldn't take much heart from it at all, they did the bare minimum there. No one got 50 and we never really looked like batting the day.

Indeed, only an idiot would try and claim that a loss by 275 runs with another 21 overs still left to play constitutes a 'moral victory'.

I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make.

The 275 runs is irrelevant unless you seriously thought that England were in the running to win it.

The 21 overs comment is valid, but at least they took it into the final session

Have to say I am really looking forward to the Boxing Day test at Centurion. A youngish Proteas team of whom I don't expect much so any good performances will be great. A bit of rain forecast for Monday and Tuesday but not too threatening. Our bowling attack looks strong but the batting is very thin. Markram, Elgar and QDK need to deliver or we're dead.

Markram, Elgar, Petersen, Rassie vdD, Bavuma, QDK, Mulder, Maharaj, Rabada, Ngidi, Olivier

This is the lineup most pundits think will appear on Sunday. I'd love to see Wiaan Mulder do well with bat and ball. He averages 35 with the bat and 24 with the ball at first class level so could become the all rounder we need.

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I am really looking forward to the Boxing Day test at Centurion. A youngish Proteas team of whom I don't expect much so any good performances will be great. A bit of rain forecast for Monday and Tuesday but not too threatening. Our bowling attack looks strong but the batting is very thin. Markram, Elgar and QDK need to deliver or we're dead.

Markram, Elgar, Petersen, Rassie vdD, Bavuma, QDK, Mulder, Maharaj, Rabada, Ngidi, Olivier

This is the lineup most pundits think will appear on Sunday. I'd love to see Wiaan Mulder do well with bat and ball. He averages 35 with the bat and 24 with the ball at first class level so could become the all rounder we need.

I would say Rassie would be our best bet of making big hundreds

Big Nipper wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:09 am

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I am really looking forward to the Boxing Day test at Centurion. A youngish Proteas team of whom I don't expect much so any good performances will be great. A bit of rain forecast for Monday and Tuesday but not too threatening. Our bowling attack looks strong but the batting is very thin. Markram, Elgar and QDK need to deliver or we're dead.

Markram, Elgar, Petersen, Rassie vdD, Bavuma, QDK, Mulder, Maharaj, Rabada, Ngidi, Olivier

This is the lineup most pundits think will appear on Sunday. I'd love to see Wiaan Mulder do well with bat and ball. He averages 35 with the bat and 24 with the ball at first class level so could become the all rounder we need.

I would say Rassie would be our best bet of making big hundreds

He has a 98 HS in Tests and 6 50's.I do like his temperament, he's an unflappable sort and doesn't mind taking his time to get in. With him, QDK and Mulder in the middle order we have, on paper, the ability to accelerate an innings nicely. Bavuma gets a lot of criticism but I think he's such a gutsy cricketer. Unlucky not to have converted more of his fifties into hundreds. He's currently on an average of 32 which is what Duminy finished on. I'd love him to have a purple patch and get a few tons.

When do we play the Aussies next?