The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Does this put a new spin on our WC2023 group. Oceana/Asia 1 will be one of Tonga or Samoa. Does anyone have a view on what these squads will look like post this change. Samoa in particular might be a significant challenge for us as they will be big and brash, much like Ireland and SA. Are we going to finish fourth in our group?

I think Tonga are the big winners.

Samoa would be looking at Folau, both Vunipolas, Sopoaga, Luatua, Toomaga-Allen, Sio Tomkinson and probably loads of others a quick google doesn't reveal.

[Big D]

Does this put a new spin on our WC2023 group. Oceana/Asia 1 will be one of Tonga or Samoa. Does anyone have a view on what these squads will look like post this change. Samoa in particular might be a significant challenge for us as they will be big and brash, much like Ireland and SA. Are we going to finish fourth in our group?

I think Tonga are the big winners.

Samoa would be looking at Folau, both Vunipolas, Sopoaga, Luatua, Toomaga-Allen, Sio Tomkinson and probably loads of others a quick google doesn't reveal.

Folau and Vunipolas would be Tonga?

[KingBlairhorn]

I think Tonga are the big winners.

Samoa would be looking at Folau, both Vunipolas, Sopoaga, Luatua, Toomaga-Allen, Sio Tomkinson and probably loads of others a quick google doesn't reveal.

Folau and Vunipolas would be Tonga?

I read a few articles that suggested Samoa - I guess we'll find out soon.

I think what we can all agree though is, fuck you World Rugby for coming up with this too late for Richie McCaw to correct the error of his ways and play for the good guys

[Yr Alban]

If anyone wants a laugh, I suggest having a look at the comments on the eligibility rules change article on the BBC site. There’s a whole lot of gammons going puce in the face about all of this, and predictably Scotland gets a kicking. Here’s the thing though. I doubt this rule will benefit Scotland much (Dempsey possibly excepted). The player would have to be good enough to improve us and good enough to get capped by a better team, and yet not good enough to hold down a place in that team. Also they have to be SQ, want to play for us, and not be too old once they have served their stand-down period. Can’t see all that applying very often. We don’t have the PI problem of losing most of our good potential players to someone else, because someone else is usually England, who have so many players that they don’t usually seem that fussed if they lose a few to other countries.

[JM2K6]

Does this put a new spin on our WC2023 group. Oceana/Asia 1 will be one of Tonga or Samoa. Does anyone have a view on what these squads will look like post this change. Samoa in particular might be a significant challenge for us as they will be big and brash, much like Ireland and SA. Are we going to finish fourth in our group?

I think Tonga are the big winners.

Samoa would be looking at Folau, both Vunipolas, Sopoaga, Luatua, Toomaga-Allen, Sio Tomkinson and probably loads of others a quick google doesn't reveal.

They can look at the Vunipolas all they like, but it's incredibly unlikely they wont pick up more caps with England over the next couple of years.

[Biffer]

I think Tonga are the big winners.

Samoa would be looking at Folau, both Vunipolas, Sopoaga, Luatua, Toomaga-Allen, Sio Tomkinson and probably loads of others a quick google doesn't reveal.

They can look at the Vunipolas all they like, but it's incredibly unlikely they wont pick up more caps with England over the next couple of years.

Billy is already broken and Mako will be by the RWC.

[robmatic]

If anyone wants a laugh, I suggest having a look at the comments on the eligibility rules change article on the BBC site. There’s a whole lot of gammons going puce in the face about all of this, and predictably Scotland gets a kicking. Here’s the thing though. I doubt this rule will benefit Scotland much (Dempsey possibly excepted). The player would have to be good enough to improve us and good enough to get capped by a better team, and yet not good enough to hold down a place in that team. Also they have to be SQ, want to play for us, and not be too old once they have served their stand-down period. Can’t see all that applying very often. We don’t have the PI problem of losing most of our good potential players to someone else, because someone else is usually England, who have so many players that they don’t usually seem that fussed if they lose a few to other countries.

Meanwhile, it does open the way for England to finally get their hands on Gary Graham.

[KingBlairhorn]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

[SaintK]

If anyone wants a laugh, I suggest having a look at the comments on the eligibility rules change article on the BBC site. There’s a whole lot of gammons going puce in the face about all of this, and predictably Scotland gets a kicking. Here’s the thing though. I doubt this rule will benefit Scotland much (Dempsey possibly excepted). The player would have to be good enough to improve us and good enough to get capped by a better team, and yet not good enough to hold down a place in that team. Also they have to be SQ, want to play for us, and not be too old once they have served their stand-down period. Can’t see all that applying very often. We don’t have the PI problem of losing most of our good potential players to someone else, because someone else is usually England, who have so many players that they don’t usually seem that fussed if they lose a few to other countries.

Meanwhile, it does open the way for England to finally get their hands on Gary Graham.

Nah, we're sorted already thanks!!!

[Yr Alban]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

[Yr Alban]

If anyone wants a laugh, I suggest having a look at the comments on the eligibility rules change article on the BBC site. There’s a whole lot of gammons going puce in the face about all of this, and predictably Scotland gets a kicking. Here’s the thing though. I doubt this rule will benefit Scotland much (Dempsey possibly excepted). The player would have to be good enough to improve us and good enough to get capped by a better team, and yet not good enough to hold down a place in that team. Also they have to be SQ, want to play for us, and not be too old once they have served their stand-down period. Can’t see all that applying very often. We don’t have the PI problem of losing most of our good potential players to someone else, because someone else is usually England, who have so many players that they don’t usually seem that fussed if they lose a few to other countries.

Meanwhile, it does open the way for England to finally get their hands on Gary Graham.

Nah, we're sorted already thanks!!!

Cam Redpath might give you a few sympathy games once we’re done with him

[SaintK]

Meanwhile, it does open the way for England to finally get their hands on Gary Graham.

Nah, we're sorted already thanks!!!

Cam Redpath might give you a few sympathy games once we’re done with him

[Biffer]

Ryan Wilson captaining the BaaBaas at Twickenham.

That’ll go down well with the HQ crowd.

[Tichtheid]

Ryan Wilson captaining the BaaBaas at Twickenham.

That’ll go down well with the HQ crowd.

I had forgotten about that.

Good for Batman, though, he’s been very good over the last couple of seasons

[SaintK]

Ryan Wilson captaining the BaaBaas at Twickenham.

That’ll go down well with the HQ crowd.

Why will it go down well?

[KingBlairhorn]

Ryan Wilson captaining the BaaBaas at Twickenham.

That’ll go down well with the HQ crowd.

Why will it go down well?

In theory he should be like Peter O'Mahoney or similar, a player you love to hate. In reality, the vast majority of the HQ crowd will have no idea who he is.

[KingBlairhorn]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

[I like neeps]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation anymore.

Also McCallum is going to be fourth choice there. It'll be impressive if he actually gets in their team.

[Slick]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

2 year stop on relegation isn't it?

[sockwithaticket]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

It's currently suspended. Can't remember if it's due to come back next season when the league expands to 14 or the season after (both the expansion and re-introduction of relegation are fucking stupid...).

[inactionman]

Murray McCallum has joined the Worcester revolution (from January). Are we sure the SRU didn't finalise that deal and buy the (other) Warriors?

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation this year or next, will resume in 23024/2025 - going to 14 teams.

Bath managing to get away with it again, we got relegated in the mid-2000s but the promoted team (can't recall who) didn't have appropriate facilities.

[SaintK]

Ryan Wilson captaining the BaaBaas at Twickenham.

That’ll go down well with the HQ crowd.

Why will it go down well?

In theory he should be like Peter O'Mahoney or similar, a player you love to hate. In reality, the vast majority of the HQ crowd will have no idea who he is.

Quite!
I didn't know he was still playing. I assume he played for Rennie at Glasgow?

[Yr Alban]

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation this year or next, will resume in 23024/2025 - going to 14 teams.

Bath managing to get away with it again, we got relegated in the mid-2000s but the promoted team (can't recall who) didn't have appropriate facilities.

Aberdeen got away with that in the football. The club are terribly proud that they have never been relegated - but on one occasion they finished dead last, and didn’t go down solely because the team in line for promotion didn’t have a 10k all-seated stadium.

[KingBlairhorn]

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation anymore.

Also McCallum is going to be fourth choice there. It'll be impressive if he actually gets in their team.

Maybe. Looking at their squad I don't see anyone that is an outstanding tighthead though: as far as I can tell Morris and Judge are their two top tightheads and both are long-time championship level players with limited premiership experience. The other is Jack Owlett who McCallum and Fagerson were both ahead of in the same Scotland U20 side (IIRC McCallum actually played quite a bit of loosehead because Fagerson was so good). Alan Solomons thought he was great when he was Edinburgh coach, he was competing with prime WP Nel to be starting tighthead at one point. The Solomons connection could see him higher in the pecking order than you think. There was a point I thought McCallum would be a 50+ cap international, he might still have that in his locker.

[KingBlairhorn]

Why will it go down well?

In theory he should be like Peter O'Mahoney or similar, a player you love to hate. In reality, the vast majority of the HQ crowd will have no idea who he is.

Quite!
I didn't know he was still playing. I assume he played for Rennie at Glasgow?

There was a point when it looked like he might be done - dropped out of the Scotland squad and then Glasgow starting 15s, but he has come roaring back and may well have been Glasgow's best player last year. He's probably not in the Glasgow first 15 and possibly not in the best 23 either, but he's a real club man.

He's also the one that Farrell got into a bit of a kerfuffle with in the tunnel at HQ in 2018 and he was accused (wrongly) of gouging Nathan Hughes so there is some history. He is referred to as Batman by Scotland fans as he was involved in an incident with an amateur player in a Glasgow kebab shop which ended in him getting done for assault. They were all wearing fancy dress at the time so the court documents made somewhat amusing reading as the players were all referred to by their costume names (i.e. "and then batman punched superman").

[I like neeps]

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation anymore.

Also McCallum is going to be fourth choice there. It'll be impressive if he actually gets in their team.

Maybe. Looking at their squad I don't see anyone that is an outstanding tighthead though: as far as I can tell Morris and Judge are their two top tightheads and both are long-time championship level players with limited premiership experience. The other is Jack Owlett who McCallum and Fagerson were both ahead of in the same Scotland U20 side (IIRC McCallum actually played quite a bit of loosehead because Fagerson was so good). Alan Solomons thought he was great when he was Edinburgh coach, he was competing with prime WP Nel to be starting tighthead at one point. The Solomons connection could see him higher in the pecking order than you think. There was a point I thought McCallum would be a 50+ cap international, he might still have that in his locker.

He's injury cover for Owlett according to Worcester's press release incidentally. And didn't get in the Edinburgh team over Lee-Roy Atalifo a long time championship player. And Kebble at TH is seen as preferable by Glasgow and Scotland.

I wouldn't expect anything from him is all I'm suggesting.

[duke]

I did have that thought. Shame Worcester are rank rotten (though inexplicably less so than Bath)

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation this year or next, will resume in 23024/2025 - going to 14 teams.

Bath managing to get away with it again, we got relegated in the mid-2000s but the promoted team (can't recall who) didn't have appropriate facilities.

Oh no we didn't! We came 11th 2 years on the bounce - once saved thanks to a last minute try from Elvis Sevialii (Sp?). I do think we've trumped that by being absolutely godawful this year though.

To get back onto Scottish rugby - Bayliss is playing tonight, Rae is a sub and Redpath is nearly ready to return

[inactionman]

It's a bit of a concern that either Redpath/Bayliss/Rae or Sutherland/Duhan/Magnet will end up relegated...or did they agree finally to end relegation from that league?

No relegation this year or next, will resume in 23024/2025 - going to 14 teams.

Bath managing to get away with it again, we got relegated in the mid-2000s but the promoted team (can't recall who) didn't have appropriate facilities.

Oh no we didn't! We came 11th 2 years on the bounce - once saved thanks to a last minute try from Elvis Sevialii (Sp?). I do think we've trumped that by being absolutely godawful this year though.

To get back onto Scottish rugby - Bayliss is playing tonight, Rae is a sub and Redpath is nearly ready to return

I must be misremembering - is this the year we mused with merging with Bristol if we got relegated?

(Or is this all some horrible, thatchers-infused dream?)

[duke]

No relegation this year or next, will resume in 23024/2025 - going to 14 teams.

Bath managing to get away with it again, we got relegated in the mid-2000s but the promoted team (can't recall who) didn't have appropriate facilities.

Oh no we didn't! We came 11th 2 years on the bounce - once saved thanks to a last minute try from Elvis Sevialii (Sp?). I do think we've trumped that by being absolutely godawful this year though.

To get back onto Scottish rugby - Bayliss is playing tonight, Rae is a sub and Redpath is nearly ready to return

I must be misremembering - is this the year we mused with merging with Bristol if we got relegated?

(Or is this all some horrible, thatchers-infused dream?)

Something like that. I think the year where no-one got relegated was when Leeds finished bottom (2002-3?) and the club up for promotion (Rotherham?) didn't have a good enough ground - the next year Brizzle got relegated because of a worse points difference than us - much talk about mergers and other ghastly outcomes such as playing home games in Briz

[inactionman]

Oh no we didn't! We came 11th 2 years on the bounce - once saved thanks to a last minute try from Elvis Sevialii (Sp?). I do think we've trumped that by being absolutely godawful this year though.

To get back onto Scottish rugby - Bayliss is playing tonight, Rae is a sub and Redpath is nearly ready to return

I must be misremembering - is this the year we mused with merging with Bristol if we got relegated?

(Or is this all some horrible, thatchers-infused dream?)

Something like that. I think the year where no-one got relegated was when Leeds finished bottom (2002-3?) and the club up for promotion (Rotherham?) didn't have a good enough ground - the next year Brizzle got relegated because of a worse points difference than us - much talk about mergers and other ghastly outcomes such as playing home games in Briz

Ah, that was it - we flirted with it but never quite dropped. I think we also strung Bristol along re merging and then drew up the ladder once we were safe, felt a bit sordid.

On rugby front, Bayliss at 8 - I've not caught many games this season (or indeed last), wasn't he seen more as a blindside? Or has Miles Reid pinched that spot?

[duke]

I must be misremembering - is this the year we mused with merging with Bristol if we got relegated?

(Or is this all some horrible, thatchers-infused dream?)

Something like that. I think the year where no-one got relegated was when Leeds finished bottom (2002-3?) and the club up for promotion (Rotherham?) didn't have a good enough ground - the next year Brizzle got relegated because of a worse points difference than us - much talk about mergers and other ghastly outcomes such as playing home games in Briz

Ah, that was it - we flirted with it but never quite dropped. I think we also strung Bristol along re merging and then drew up the ladder once we were safe, felt a bit sordid.

On rugby front, Bayliss at 8 - I've not caught many games this season (or indeed last), wasn't he seen more as a blindside? Or has Miles Reid pinched that spot?

Most of the games I've seen, Bayliss has been at openside, I think Scotland were the first to try him properly at 8. We've always had Mercer or Faletau (when not injured) for 8 so Bayliss has fitted in elsewhere. Bayliss always strikes me as a bit too lightweight for 8 but he seemed to go ok for Scotland so we'll see how he gets on against Simmonds et al.

[inactionman]

Something like that. I think the year where no-one got relegated was when Leeds finished bottom (2002-3?) and the club up for promotion (Rotherham?) didn't have a good enough ground - the next year Brizzle got relegated because of a worse points difference than us - much talk about mergers and other ghastly outcomes such as playing home games in Briz

Ah, that was it - we flirted with it but never quite dropped. I think we also strung Bristol along re merging and then drew up the ladder once we were safe, felt a bit sordid.

On rugby front, Bayliss at 8 - I've not caught many games this season (or indeed last), wasn't he seen more as a blindside? Or has Miles Reid pinched that spot?

Most of the games I've seen, Bayliss has been at openside, I think Scotland were the first to try him properly at 8. We've always had Mercer or Faletau (when not injured) for 8 so Bayliss has fitted in elsewhere. Bayliss always strikes me as a bit too lightweight for 8 but he seemed to go ok for Scotland so we'll see how he gets on against Simmonds et al.

I think the first season I saw him he usually came on as sub (for mostly Ellis a few times at 6 if I recall correctly? Although I think we've established I don't generally recall correctly) but we seemed to shift people around a lot in the back row with injuries, callups and general scattergun tactics - I'm sure even Faletea had a few goes at 6.

Agreed about his build, although it looks like he's bulked up a bit this season, just looks a bit more powerful in contact - maybe he's specifically training for a role at 8. Hoping this doesn't impact his engine as he usually covers a fair bit of ground.

[Slick]

Ah, that was it - we flirted with it but never quite dropped. I think we also strung Bristol along re merging and then drew up the ladder once we were safe, felt a bit sordid.

On rugby front, Bayliss at 8 - I've not caught many games this season (or indeed last), wasn't he seen more as a blindside? Or has Miles Reid pinched that spot?

Most of the games I've seen, Bayliss has been at openside, I think Scotland were the first to try him properly at 8. We've always had Mercer or Faletau (when not injured) for 8 so Bayliss has fitted in elsewhere. Bayliss always strikes me as a bit too lightweight for 8 but he seemed to go ok for Scotland so we'll see how he gets on against Simmonds et al.

I think the first season I saw him he usually came on as sub (for mostly Ellis a few times at 6 if I recall correctly? Although I think we've established I don't generally recall correctly) but we seemed to shift people around a lot in the back row with injuries, callups and general scattergun tactics - I'm sure even Faletea had a few goes at 6.

Agreed about his build, although it looks like he's bulked up a bit this season, just looks a bit more powerful in contact - maybe he's specifically training for a role at 8. Hoping this doesn't impact his engine as he usually covers a fair bit of ground.

He had a really good game for us, very impressive. I was at the game and haven't watched on TV but from what I saw he was really getting around and involved in a lot but don't remember any barnstorming runs. As you know, for a lot of us a big, physical, tacklebusting 8 is the missing part of the jigsaw and I'm not sure he is that, but still good to have him.

[Punter15]

Most of the games I've seen, Bayliss has been at openside, I think Scotland were the first to try him properly at 8. We've always had Mercer or Faletau (when not injured) for 8 so Bayliss has fitted in elsewhere. Bayliss always strikes me as a bit too lightweight for 8 but he seemed to go ok for Scotland so we'll see how he gets on against Simmonds et al.

I think the first season I saw him he usually came on as sub (for mostly Ellis a few times at 6 if I recall correctly? Although I think we've established I don't generally recall correctly) but we seemed to shift people around a lot in the back row with injuries, callups and general scattergun tactics - I'm sure even Faletea had a few goes at 6.

Agreed about his build, although it looks like he's bulked up a bit this season, just looks a bit more powerful in contact - maybe he's specifically training for a role at 8. Hoping this doesn't impact his engine as he usually covers a fair bit of ground.

He had a really good game for us, very impressive. I was at the game and haven't watched on TV but from what I saw he was really getting around and involved in a lot but don't remember any barnstorming runs. As you know, for a lot of us a big, physical, tacklebusting 8 is the missing part of the jigsaw and I'm not sure he is that, but still good to have him.

Surely worth a phone call to Zach Mercer?

[KingBlairhorn]

I think the first season I saw him he usually came on as sub (for mostly Ellis a few times at 6 if I recall correctly? Although I think we've established I don't generally recall correctly) but we seemed to shift people around a lot in the back row with injuries, callups and general scattergun tactics - I'm sure even Faletea had a few goes at 6.

Agreed about his build, although it looks like he's bulked up a bit this season, just looks a bit more powerful in contact - maybe he's specifically training for a role at 8. Hoping this doesn't impact his engine as he usually covers a fair bit of ground.

He had a really good game for us, very impressive. I was at the game and haven't watched on TV but from what I saw he was really getting around and involved in a lot but don't remember any barnstorming runs. As you know, for a lot of us a big, physical, tacklebusting 8 is the missing part of the jigsaw and I'm not sure he is that, but still good to have him.

Surely worth a phone call to Zach Mercer?

BINGO!

Seriously though, he isn’t qualified.

[Punter15]

He had a really good game for us, very impressive. I was at the game and haven't watched on TV but from what I saw he was really getting around and involved in a lot but don't remember any barnstorming runs. As you know, for a lot of us a big, physical, tacklebusting 8 is the missing part of the jigsaw and I'm not sure he is that, but still good to have him.

Surely worth a phone call to Zach Mercer?

BINGO!

Seriously though, he isn’t qualified.

Ah, cock. Knew he’d played age grade but didn’t realise it was on residency.

[robmatic]

Looking forward to seeing Boffelli make his debut tonight in a not bad looking starting line up, given the injuries and internationals being rested.

Edinburgh Rugby team to face Dragons at Rodney Parade in the United Rugby Championship
Saturday 27 November (kick-off 5.15pm) – live on Premier Sports

15. Emiliano Boffelli*

14. Damien Hoyland (88)
13. Matt Currie (3)
12. James Lang (4)
11. Ramiro Moyano (1)

10. Blair Kinghorn (104) VICE-CAPTAIN
9. Ben Vellacott (5) CAPTAIN

1. Boan Venter (12)
2. Adam McBurney*
3. WP Nel (160)
4. Marshall Sykes (11)
5. Jamie Hodgson (27)
6. Nick Haining (20)
7. Luke Crosbie (63) VICE-CAPTAIN
8. Magnus Bradbury (98)

Replacements

16. Dave Cherry (41)
17. Harrison Courtney*
18. Angus Williams (4)
19. Connor Boyle (10)
20. Ben Muncaster (2)
21. Henry Pyrgos (54)
22. Charlie Savala (3)
23. Cammy Hutchison (5)

[Slick]

I thought the backline looks horrible to be honest

[robmatic]

I thought the backline looks horrible to be honest

Really? A wet night in Newport will be a test for Kinghorn, but I like what I've seen of Lang this season and Currie looks a really good prospect.

[Slick]

I thought the backline looks horrible to be honest

Really? A wet night in Newport will be a test for Kinghorn, but I like what I've seen of Lang this season and Currie looks a really good prospect.

It’s probably more me not knowing as much as I should to be honest