NPR

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

He’s a leader. That unmeasurable attribute that gives seemingly average players 50 caps. See Borthwick, Steve.

I also didn’t pick up that despite being picked ahead of George in the initial squad, Nic Dolly has been jettisoned for him. Probably the right call given he’s a better player but that’s a shit, confused message.

Ben Youngs definitely to start because he won’t bring uncapped Mitchell in after only just arriving. Dan Robson now down to at least 5 in the scrum half pecking order which seems ludicrous.

Like to think I pay a lot of attention to England games and the players. Can't think of any memorable moments involving Ewells. Not sure I'd recognise him if he walked past me.

Despite all the fanfare about new faces, if Smith isn’t fit to risk, we’re likely to see:

Marler
George
Sinkler
Ewels
Itoje
Lawes
Dombrandt
Curry
Youngs
Farrell
Tuliagi
Slade
May
Radwan
Furbank

Which really isn’t that inspiring. And that’s assuming that Jones doesn’t dig his heels in and not start Dombrandt which he has every likelihood of doing.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:24 pm Like to think I pay a lot of attention to England games and the players. Can't think of any memorable moments involving Ewells. Not sure I'd recognise him if he walked past me.

I can remember several instances of bone-headed penalties Dan Cole would be proud of, but certainly no positive contributions.

Genge reckons the England squad need to bond better

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59134823

Does this mean, in times past, the archbishop of banterbury James Haskell wasn't doing the job?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

Hopefully Kruis will be back in the Premiership in time for the next RWC. He's streets ahead of those tasked with replacing him.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:00 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

Hopefully Kruis will be back in the Premiership in time for the next RWC. He's streets ahead of those tasked with replacing him.

Dave Ribbans was the best 2nd row in the premiership last year and is a massive fucker to boot, so fits the tight head lock mould but he seems to be behind Ewels and others in the pecking order. I don’t know why Jones seems reluctant to pair Itoje and Lawes together. I don’t see why Itoje couldn’t be the tight head lock.

I am convinced that cunt Jones beasts those players who could completely transform England like Smith and Randall during training so they get injured and he can go back to his old favourites like Youngs and Farrell

Choc wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

He’s a leader. That unmeasurable attribute that gives seemingly average players 50 caps. See Borthwick, Steve.

I also didn’t pick up that despite being picked ahead of George in the initial squad, Nic Dolly has been jettisoned for him. Probably the right call given he’s a better player but that’s a shit, confused message.

Ben Youngs definitely to start because he won’t bring uncapped Mitchell in after only just arriving. Dan Robson now down to at least 5 in the scrum half pecking order which seems ludicrous.

Robson was injured for/in the last Wasps match, so...

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:00 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

Hopefully Kruis will be back in the Premiership in time for the next RWC. He's streets ahead of those tasked with replacing him.

At his best, yes, but he had a massive drop off in form.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:22 pm

Choc wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

He’s a leader. That unmeasurable attribute that gives seemingly average players 50 caps. See Borthwick, Steve.

I also didn’t pick up that despite being picked ahead of George in the initial squad, Nic Dolly has been jettisoned for him. Probably the right call given he’s a better player but that’s a shit, confused message.

Ben Youngs definitely to start because he won’t bring uncapped Mitchell in after only just arriving. Dan Robson now down to at least 5 in the scrum half pecking order which seems ludicrous.

Robson was injured for/in the last Wasps match, so...

Let’s not bring facts in to this. That said, he bought an injured Louis Lynagh in to the squad for 10 minutes.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:23 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:00 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:33 am I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

Hopefully Kruis will be back in the Premiership in time for the next RWC. He's streets ahead of those tasked with replacing him.

At his best, yes, but he had a massive drop off in form.

He'd have to be in good form in the Premiership before selection*. He's lost quite a bit of weight in Japan apparently, much faster style of play on fast pitches over there.


* Obeying the obvious Eddie gambit that club form means fuck all anyway.

Yeah, no doubt a fit and firing Kruis is an asset.

Randall our for up to 2 months after picking an injury during the paddleboarding session...

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:58 pm Randall our for up to 2 months after picking an injury during the paddleboarding session...

Then being passed fit from that only to be broken during training.

Maybe he was fine to resume training, but I'd not be surprised if he wasn't and was encouraged to do so anyway.

Yeah, I expect he got a "fuck off mate" when he suggested he might have been hurt

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:58 pm Randall our for up to 2 months after picking an injury during the paddleboarding session...

You missed the most important bit !

the paddleboarding was organized by Jones for team bonding

even when he's trying to be a nice guy, he ends up, breaking players

He wasn't being a nice guy, by all accounts it was a fucking beasting

Do the RFU pay all the wages of a player who gets injured on their watch until they return to full fitness?

Chris Foy has this as the team.



Dat backrow..everyone out of position its Andy Robinson esc

Doesn't Underhill normally play 7 and Lawes 6? Steward is a 15, marchant has played on the wing a ton. Tuilagi has spent most his career at 13.

I'm not upset with curry at 8, see advantages to it as well.

Still not a fan of Lawes as an international flanker but can't argue his play at saints at 6 seems to be improving.

Lawes went well there for the Lions. But if you pick Dombrandt, a proper 8 in red hot form, you get lineout, breakdown ability, and serious attacking chops at 8 and you don't need what Lawes brings at 6 so you can pick him in the second row as he's one of the best two options.

I would also say Marchant is familiar with playing on the wing but he's still a 13 by trade. 13 is his best position, it's not a Malins situation where wing gets the best out of him.

Will anyone be surprised if Jones picks a team like that? No. He's hoping Stockholm Syndrome will collect the rest of us up. Marchant over Radwan - a player Eddiot described like Kolbe. Then we effectively have Lawes over Curry - a player Eddiot described like McCaw with Curry over Dombrandt. And wtf is Ewels doing there like a tumour in the middle of the pack?

Starters

15. Freddie Steward, 14. Adam Radwan, 13. Henry Slade, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Jonny May, 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Ben Youngs, 1. Ellis Genge, 2. Jamie George, 3. Kyle Sinckler, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. Jonny Hill, 6. Courtney Lawes, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Tom Curry.

Finishers

16. Jamie Blamire, 17. Joe Marler, 18. Will Stuart, 19. Charlie Ewels, 20. Alex Dombrandt, 21. Alex Mitchell, 22. Marcus Smith, 23. George Furbank.

https://www.englandrugby.com/home

Overall, not bad.

However, what in the ever loving fuck is the point of starting Farrell at 10 in this game with Smith on the bench?

Either Smith's fit to play and we give him his start or he's not.

You can get away with Lawes at 6 against Tonga, but do we really lose anything by starting Dombrandt with the other two and then shifting Curry to 8 later in the game if we really want to run that experiment?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:32 pm Overall, not bad.

However, what in the ever loving fuck is the point of starting Farrell at 10 in this game with Smith on the bench?

Either Smith's fit to play and we give him his start or he's not.

You can get away with Lawes at 6 against Tonga, but do we really lose anything by starting Dombrandt with the other two and then shifting Curry to 8 later in the game if we really want to run that experiment?

He's fit, but wasn't able to train much. You want to completely fuck him over by throwing him out there without having been able to spend much time training with the squad?

Good to see Ben Youngs get a chance to show what he can do against Tonga with an experienced 10 outside him. Absolutely out of the question that we might pick a different 9 for this one.

Also glad we're not taking the opportunity to look at Dombrandt or Simmonds when we could instead play Curry out of position.



I also think we're wasting our time with Manu. Yeah, on form he's a monster of a centre. He won't stay fit and in form for long.

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:05 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:32 pm Overall, not bad.

However, what in the ever loving fuck is the point of starting Farrell at 10 in this game with Smith on the bench?

Either Smith's fit to play and we give him his start or he's not.

You can get away with Lawes at 6 against Tonga, but do we really lose anything by starting Dombrandt with the other two and then shifting Curry to 8 later in the game if we really want to run that experiment?

He's fit, but wasn't able to train much. You want to completely fuck him over by throwing him out there without having been able to spend much time training with the squad?

I really don't think it'll make that much of a difference against a Tonga team that just conceded 60 to an under-strength Scotland.

As you said the other day, we're not great at sticking it to tier 2 teams, but we generally end up doing enough for a convincing scoreline. If that's going to happen we may as well let the new kid get some in game experience at the same time.

The most we can hope for us for a sub par performance causing Jones to drop some of them for good, similar to the Japan game when he binned off Care, Lozowski etc but eve if he did he's far more likely to ditch the tyros than his pet projects like fucking Lawes at fucking 6. Lions be damned, he might look OK in a meathead slugging contest but he's shown time and again he's not a Test 6 against teams that can shift the ball.

For comparison, the ABs against a much better side than Tonga:

ll Blacks vs Italy:

1. George Bower (9 caps)
2. Dane Coles (77)
3. Tyrel Lomax (12)
4. Tupou Vaa’i (9)
5. Josh Lord (1)
6. Luke Jacobson (11)
7. Sam Cane – captain (75)
8. Hoskins Sotutu (9)

9. Brad Weber (15)
10. Richie Mo’unga (29)
11. George Bridge (17)
12. Quinn Tupaea (5)
13. Braydon Ennor (3)
14. Sevu Reece (15)
15. Damian McKenzie (38)

16. Asafo Aumua (5), 17. Ethan de Groot (3), 18. Ofa Tuungafasi (42), 19. Samuel Whitelock (129), 20. Shannon Frizell (15), 21. Finlay Christie (4), 22. David Havili (12), 23. Jordie Barrett (32)

I'm going to assume "ll Blacks" isn't a typo but a reference to the 2nd XV nature of the team because it pleases me.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:11 pm Good to see Ben Youngs get a chance to show what he can do against Tonga with an experienced 10 outside him.

Indeed. You have to wonder how Jones still doesn't know what Youngs can or can't do after the 58th time he's picked him. It's truly and utterly bizarre. The conversation in the media always rotates around dropping Farrell which completely misses the far bigger mystery of WTF is going on in the 9 shirt.

Youngs has been significantly better his last few England games tbf

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:46 pm Youngs has been significantly better his last few England games tbf

IT DOESNT MATTER

IT'S FUCKING TONGA

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:26 pm I'm going to assume "ll Blacks" isn't a typo but a reference to the 2nd XV nature of the team because it pleases me.

I'll allow it.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:46 pm Youngs has been significantly better his last few England games tbf

He's only better compared to Ben Youngs.

It's the difference between getting dog shit on your shoe instead of your hand, it's better but it's still dog shit.

I'll put up front that I'm not English. Can't believe that Jones hasn't used this match to blood a few more youngsters and in particular try new combination at 9 and 10. We all know by now what Farrell and Youngs can/can't do there so why not try some of the young guys? If not Smith, if he isn't fully fit then why not Simmons or someone like that? We know that England will win by 50 points so why not try out some of the youngsters and also build their confidence a little. Absolutely amazed by this selection, only thing you'll take out of this selection is the odd injury or two.

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:00 pm I'll put up front that I'm not English. Can't believe that Jones hasn't used this match to blood a few more youngsters and in particular try new combination at 9 and 10. We all know by now what Farrell and Youngs can/can't do there so why not try some of the young guys? If not Smith, if he isn't fully fit then why not Simmons or someone like that? We know that England will win by 50 points so why not try out some of the youngsters and also build their confidence a little. Absolutely amazed by this selection, only thing you'll take out of this selection is the odd injury or two.

Simmonds who can't even get a regular starting berth for Exeter?

Throwing in a ton of newbies is as pointless as playing a team full of 15+ cap players.

Steward and Radwan are starting, then there's another 5 relatively inexperienced players on the bench. Manu is a mile away now from being considered established and needs to be bedded in again.

I don't understand why Ford isn't in the side. Switching between him and Smith makes so much more sense, but not throwing in a ton of new caps isn't a bad decision in my mind.

Not convinced we learn much at all from whichever 9 & 10 run points past Tonga.

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:09 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:00 pm I'll put up front that I'm not English. Can't believe that Jones hasn't used this match to blood a few more youngsters and in particular try new combination at 9 and 10. We all know by now what Farrell and Youngs can/can't do there so why not try some of the young guys? If not Smith, if he isn't fully fit then why not Simmons or someone like that? We know that England will win by 50 points so why not try out some of the youngsters and also build their confidence a little. Absolutely amazed by this selection, only thing you'll take out of this selection is the odd injury or two.

Simmonds who can't even get a regular starting berth for Exeter?

Throwing in a ton of newbies is as pointless as playing a team full of 15+ cap players.

Steward and Radwan are starting, then there's another 5 relatively inexperienced players on the bench. Manu is a mile away now from being considered established and needs to be bedded in again.

I don't understand why Ford isn't in the side. Switching between him and Smith makes so much more sense, but not throwing in a ton of new caps isn't a bad decision in my mind.

Didnt say a ton of newbies but I am not sure what Jones is going to get out of this game. Scotland team had 5 new caps and another 4 off the bench including a couple of youngsters yet still managed to put 50 points on them and it should have been more. Although Tonga have a few more players available and a few more days practice you will beat them very easily. This would have been an ideal time to start a new 9 and/or 10 plus perhaps a younger face or two in the pack a chance of a run out. These guys play at a level in Premiership every week which will be higher than that required to beat Tonga.