NPR

For those interested and involved in the English junior game
RFU consultation on changes to the league and cup competition structure level 3 and below out tomorrow
https://www.englandrugby.com/news/arti ... tructure

Strange one, his carrying is surely his point of difference at hooker. As an 8 he becomes just another big ball carrying back row, without the grounding in the position's basics that his rivals have.

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:12 pm Strange one, his carrying is surely his point of difference at hooker. As an 8 he becomes just another big ball carrying back row, without the grounding in the position's basics that his rivals have.

There aren't many who carry as effectively as him, players with that ability are hardly a dime a dozen even at Prem level.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:48 pm

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:12 pm Strange one, his carrying is surely his point of difference at hooker. As an 8 he becomes just another big ball carrying back row, without the grounding in the position's basics that his rivals have.

There aren't many who carry as effectively as him, players with that ability are hardly a dime a dozen even at Prem level.

But a lot more common at 8 than hooker. A hooker with that kind of carrying is an absolute diamond, and Wasps and England are denying him the chance to become that player - with his complicity, naturally. It's a bit disappointing.

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:57 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:48 pm

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:12 pm Strange one, his carrying is surely his point of difference at hooker. As an 8 he becomes just another big ball carrying back row, without the grounding in the position's basics that his rivals have.

There aren't many who carry as effectively as him, players with that ability are hardly a dime a dozen even at Prem level.

But a lot more common at 8 than hooker. A hooker with that kind of carrying is an absolute diamond, and Wasps and England are denying him the chance to become that player - with his complicity, naturally. It's a bit disappointing.

Carrying like that in a hooker is a nice to have. Fundamentally they have to be able to hit their jumpers and perform in the scrum.

Wasp and England aren't denying him anything, they'll have suggested this positional switch based on what they see from him and his competitors. There are three other hookers in the Wasps senior squad, if they thought Barbeary was as good as any of them and/or likely to surpass them I highly doubt the coaches would be advocating this change. In Tom Willis, Brad Shields and Nizaam Carr they have three players who can more than capably play 8 and yet the people who see him week in week out think its worth him converting to back row.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:08 pm For those interested and involved in the English junior game
RFU consultation on changes to the league and cup competition structure level 3 and below out tomorrow
https://www.englandrugby.com/news/arti ... tructure

First XVs used about 25 players per season 20 years ago. They use about 43 now. Blimey.

Mostly all a good idea but I can see the strongest clubs all applying to enter second teams into the league system. How do you stop the club filling the lower ranked team with players from the higher ranked team though for must win games to win leagues or avoid relegation etc?

Yeah, Eddie thinks Tom Curry is a number 8 too.

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:24 pm Yeah, Eddie thinks Tom Curry is a number 8 too.

And his club disagree.

The crucial thing here for me is that Wasps are supportive of the decision and using him in the back row was spear headed by them before he was even on Eddie's/England's radar.

Regards Barbeary, you'd hope that those around him are giving him the best advice for what works for him as an individual, not for some imagined slot that he may occupy in a future that will likely not feature the people giving him the advice now.

Were/are Barbeary's fundamental hooking skills poor? Did/does playing hooker diminish his carrying ability? Does he have greater development potential as a no.8 than as a no.2? Which position offers him a longer professional career - why for example doesn't he become the English Furlong?

From what I remember of his throwing, it was pretty shit.

Can't recall him having had any minutes at hooker for Wasps.

Some hazy memories of him with the U20s, but nothing that makes me think a switch to back row is squandering a promising hooker.

When last did we see a player losing it completely.

haha Mcguigan going crazy. Milnerton boy born in Namibia.

Holy shit, Billy threw a dummy and pearler of a pass instead of crashing into someone.

That should be a red for Maro.

Akker still throw watermelons

Both Currys having cracking games. Ben really should have more of a sniff at the national team, certainly ahead of someone like Ludlam.

Utterly dumb from Mcguigan

Doep Curry is nice

Billy with a pass Cipriani would put on his showreel

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:33 pm Both Currys having cracking games. Ben really should have more of a sniff at the national team, certainly ahead of someone like Ludlam.

He was picked ahead of Tom. Jones considers it dumb insolence to get injured in training.

Van Zyl look at home for Saracens

Nice break from Robert.

That's twice in fairly quick succession a handling error followed by conceding the scrum pen have really undone Sale.

Nice match. More Saffers on the field then Englishmen.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:50 pm That's twice in fairly quick succession a handling error followed by conceding the scrum pen have really undone Sale.

Coenie Oosthuizen gives you that

What did McGuigan do?

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:08 pm What did McGuigan do?

Everything

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:08 pm What did McGuigan do?

Lost it completely after a period of Saracens needle - Maitland had just been penalised for gloating in someone's face, then Sale got stopped on the line, celebrations ensued, and McGuigan went tonto on Tomkins - barged him from behind, threw him on his face, then threw him again into some hoardings. He's always been an angry liability.

Yeah I've never liked him. What a twat!

Clinically thick from McGuigan. Pleased to see Billy playing with that confidence

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:20 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:08 pm For those interested and involved in the English junior game
RFU consultation on changes to the league and cup competition structure level 3 and below out tomorrow
https://www.englandrugby.com/news/arti ... tructure

First XVs used about 25 players per season 20 years ago. They use about 43 now. Blimey.

Stat basically the same in club cricket. It’s a bloody nightmare as you go from feast to famine week in week out, people have to shuffle roles/positions etc and everyone is basically permanently pissed off whilst captains get burnt out.

Would suggest fewer games in total and more bye weeks may help with this

Surprised Billy got MOTM, though Kay was in full on narrative mode by the end, just naming random players who'd actually been pretty quiet and suggesting they'd had a worldie. Up until that lovely dummy and pass, Billy's day had largely been about making no ground on his carries, and missing a handful of tackles. Thought his opposite number had the better game. Itoje (who was phenomenal), Mako, Tompkins all put in better performances, and Segun wasn't far off either.

Not surprised Sale lost, was very strange that Sanderson had apparently spent pre match hyping up some new tactic from Saracens, and then spent his time on comms in the first half praising the Saracens coaching staff. There's a touch of the Steve Bruce v Manchester United about him.

I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:13 pm I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Show me any player, at any level, in any position who hasn't done that to a winger!

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:13 pm I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Got to say, just watched it myself and have come away very much on McGuigans side in this. All this head tapping and screaming in faces is a blight on the game, fuck them

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:52 pm

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:13 pm I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Show me any player, at any level, in any position who hasn't done that to a winger!

His diving after the winger reacted look like soccer Premier League.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:20 pm

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:13 pm I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Got to say, just watched it myself and have come away very much on McGuigans side in this. All this head tapping and screaming in faces is a blight on the game, fuck them

You're an idiot.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:20 pm

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:13 pm I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Got to say, just watched it myself and have come away very much on McGuigans side in this. All this head tapping and screaming in faces is a blight on the game, fuck them

While that's true, you can't go around judo throwing unresisting opposition players around because they annoyed you.

Sarries had picked up a penalty for all that gloaty bollocks earlier in the game, keeping your cool and allowing the ref to notice it means they could pick up more. As it is McGuigan did exactly what they want by rising to the bait and committing an undeniable offence and spectacle of himself.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:39 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:20 pm

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:13 pm I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Got to say, just watched it myself and have come away very much on McGuigans side in this. All this head tapping and screaming in faces is a blight on the game, fuck them

While that's true, you can't go around judo throwing unresisting opposition players around because they annoyed you.

Sarries had picked up a penalty for all that gloaty bollocks earlier in the game, keeping your cool and allowing the ref to notice it means they could pick up more. As it is McGuigan did exactly what they want by rising to the bait and committing an undeniable offence and spectacle of himself.

Which is why they'll keep doing it.

Can somebody point out what Tompkins did exactly to provoke that reaction?

It must have been very bad.