Is Ian Foster the worst All Black coach ever?

[Kiwias]

This post on the Silver Fern forum is great, and really resonated with me;

https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/top ... thread/657

Not too dissimilar to what a number of us have been saying for a while now.

This is not a new issue with Hansen/Foster. Hart did the same with Lomu, Wilson, Umaga, and Cullen.

[Dan54]

This post on the Silver Fern forum is great, and really resonated with me;

https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/top ... thread/657

Not too dissimilar to what a number of us have been saying for a while now.

This is not a new issue with Hansen/Foster. Hart did the same with Lomu, Wilson, Umaga, and Cullen.

As did Mitchell and Deans with Rangi at 13? Hell was happening since I have watched rugby, one of best centres I have ever seen was actually a 10 (Mike Gibson) . Nothing new in it, geez Bill Osborne was a 13 who played 12 because it worked to have him and Robertson in team. I not saying I like it but only fools think it anything new!

[Gumboot]

As did Mitchell and Deans with Rangi at 13? Hell was happening since I have watched rugby, one of best centres I have ever seen was actually a 10 (Mike Gibson) . Nothing new in it, geez Bill Osborne was a 13 who played 12 because it worked to have him and Robertson in team.

Not quite. Bill played 10 for the Whanganui High School First XV, and while he was also an accomplished centre, he played the bulk of his provincial rugby for Whanganui at 12. I know the bloke who played at 13 outside him in those days, and he's adamant that Bill was always a 12 who occasionally played 13. He was certainly at centre in his test debut (the water polo test in '75) but that was coz Robertson was injured.

[stemoc]

kHALEESI fOSTERS OBSESSIONS WITH THE BARRATHEON IS GOING TO EVENTUALLY BLOW UP IN HIS FACE..

[ASMO]

Nope. Got to disagree with you Enz. Whenever England use to fail at football world cups was always the coaches fault. We kep picking the wrong one time and time again. With a good coach we would have won at least 4 of them by now.....or maybe 5.

Never just the coaches "fault". I am firmly of the belief that it's a team and the players need to man up and take some of the blame too. Anything less is accepting mediocrity.

The easy path is to blame the coach - they will historically take the blame but its never always their fault. Some of those player errors last night were mediocrity at its finest.

It's never just the coach's fault. Fault is a stupid word to use in the context of a team sport. It's the coach's responsibility.

The Coach bears a high degree of fault though as is it is him who selects the players, not just coaches them and selecting the wrong players, players out of form or just based on his favourites must be a significant contributary factor in teams failing. Lancaster was a prime example of this and so is Eddie Jones to a lesser extent.

[Kiwias]

John Mitchell wants a word..

Ivan Vodanovic is ahead of you in the queue.

[Raggs]

Who else left the coaching team if you don't mind me asking? Was it just Steve?

[Gumboot]

Who else left the coaching team if you don't mind me asking? Was it just Steve?

Our scrum coach, Mike Cron. And it shows.

[Raggs]

Who else left the coaching team if you don't mind me asking? Was it just Steve?

Our scrum coach, Mike Cron. And it shows.

Do you have a breakdown coach? Could Cron have done that? Just not seeing the same pain inflicting approach to the breakdown as I'm used to. Cane is still having a go, Coles every now and then what he's not being a twat, similar with Whitelock.

[Gumboot]

Who else left the coaching team if you don't mind me asking? Was it just Steve?

Our scrum coach, Mike Cron. And it shows.

Do you have a breakdown coach? Could Cron have done that? Just not seeing the same pain inflicting approach to the breakdown as I'm used to. Cane is still having a go, Coles every now and then what he's not being a twat, similar with Whitelock.

No idea if there's a coach dedicated solely to breakdown work. Plumtree's our forwards coach and Greg Feek's now in charge of the scrum. When Plumtree was appointed, he talked about the need to improve the pack's physicality. I guess time will tell, but it's been a very erratic start so far.

[Torquemada 1420]

That was utterly disgraceful today.

Especially after last week's debacle in Brisbane.

Two utterly pathetic performances in a row. Foster is in charge, he is the ultimately responsible for this crap.

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/foster-we- ... d-again-1/

[Raggs]

Our scrum coach, Mike Cron. And it shows.

Do you have a breakdown coach? Could Cron have done that? Just not seeing the same pain inflicting approach to the breakdown as I'm used to. Cane is still having a go, Coles every now and then what he's not being a twat, similar with Whitelock.

No idea if there's a coach dedicated solely to breakdown work. Plumtree's our forwards coach and Greg Feek's now in charge of the scrum. When Plumtree was appointed, he talked about the need to improve the pack's physicality. I guess time will tell, but it's been a very erratic start so far.

Maybe he meant taking it easier to try and conserve energy elsewhere? Whenever I'd watch the ABs I'd be grimacing at how hard they hit anyone who dared be close to their breakdown, it was straight up nasty. Which in turn lead to ridiculously fast clean ball. Now I'm watching them just sort of cuddle someone who's not in a position to turnover, but still in the way.

[Monkey Magic]

Who else left the coaching team if you don't mind me asking? Was it just Steve?

Our scrum coach, Mike Cron. And it shows.

Also losing skills coach is starting to tell - or its that the newer players are just worse

[mrbrownstone]

This post on the Silver Fern forum is great, and really resonated with me;

https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/top ... thread/657

Not too dissimilar to what a number of us have been saying for a while now.

This is not a new issue with Hansen/Foster. Hart did the same with Lomu, Wilson, Umaga, and Cullen.

The fact is there are always going to be unlucky players in an All Black set up. Form players who miss out. Usually you can name a pretty decent XV of players who don't even make the squad. That competition is what makes the All Blacks great, the coach just has to have the convictions to actually make those calls. The Hansen/Foster era just stinks of fence-sitting.

The way this team selects, we would have moved Carter to 12 to accomodate Nick Evans, and found space for Braid during the era of peak McCaw.

It reminds me of Blackadder shifting around Carter and McCaw, to accomodate Colin Slade and Matt Todd.

[Ted.]

According to Stuff, Foster has been at least involved in 3of the woprst ABs defeats. Saturday's game is at the top of the list.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... modern-era

The Irish game in the US doesn't even make the list.

Funnily enough, none of the top 5 occurred at the Cake Tin or indeed in Wellington, but can I just say that I am still traumatised by the ABs loss to the Lions at Athletic Park i n 1971.

[Wild Beef]

It’s professional era only. I’m surprised the 2008 bled wasn’t there. Wasn’t that the match where we were utter shit except for Carter who was a one man army? Possibly the same game that ended Lauaki’s career.

[mrbrownstone]

According to Stuff, Foster has been at least involved in 3of the woprst ABs defeats. Saturday's game is at the top of the list.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... modern-era

The Irish game in the US doesn't even make the list.

Funnily enough, none of the top 5 occurred at the Cake Tin or indeed in Wellington, but can I just say that I am still traumatised by the ABs loss to the Lions at Athletic Park i n 1971.

Hard to argue with that. Think you could also submit 38-21 to England in 2012. A battering where we were never in the game, and that was a much better team with Carter, McCaw, Read, Nonu, Smith, Woodcock, Mealamu, Franks, Jane, and peak Savea. Score wise I think it's the third largest losing margin ever?

2018 loss in Dublin where we were held tryless to a single-digit score also in the equation.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

It’s professional era only. I’m surprised the 2008 bled wasn’t there. Wasn’t that the match where we were utter shit except for Carter who was a one man army? Possibly the same game that ended Lauaki’s career.

Ah yes I remember that game well. Henry could barely refer to him without dry retching. It was pretty obvious from his post-match interview that poor old Lauaki's (RIP) international career was toast.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

According to Stuff, Foster has been at least involved in 3of the woprst ABs defeats. Saturday's game is at the top of the list.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... modern-era

The Irish game in the US doesn't even make the list.

Funnily enough, none of the top 5 occurred at the Cake Tin or indeed in Wellington, but can I just say that I am still traumatised by the ABs loss to the Lions at Athletic Park i n 1971.

Hard to argue with that. Think you could also submit 38-21 to England in 2012. A battering where we were never in the game, and that was a much better team with Carter, McCaw, Read, Nonu, Smith, Woodcock, Mealamu, Franks, Jane, and peak Savea. Score wise I think it's the third largest losing margin ever?

2018 loss in Dublin where we were held tryless to a single-digit score also in the equation.

Yeah that 2012 game was awful but perhaps more understandable given a lot of the squad had been sick in the lead up to the game.

We got blown off the park, and were never at the races. A combination of an underdone side and a magnificent opposition. That's rugby at times.

[Ted.]

It’s professional era only. I’m surprised the 2008 bled wasn’t there. Wasn’t that the match where we were utter shit except for Carter who was a one man army? Possibly the same game that ended Lauaki’s career.

The quip about the Lions test at Athletic Park was an aside, for pity's sake.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I had the misfortune of being at the MCG on a rainy night in 2007 when we never fired a shot.

Carter had a rare shocker and everything Australia touched seemed to turn to Wallaby gold. We lost 20-15.

Scott Staniforth scored under the sticks in front of us and from that moment I knew my Saturday night was fucked.

We caught the bus home early and I drank beers at home on the couch instead of partying in the CBD.

[Sandstorm]

Laws have changed to penalise coming in at the side of a ruck or tackling a player beyond the ruck, plus refs are finally penalising ABs for cheap-shot shoulder charge tackles.

Yes! You do need a complete overhaul of your breakdown approach - hopefully you've got the coaching staff to do it.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Laws have changed to penalise coming in at the side of a ruck or tackling a player beyond the ruck, plus refs are finally penalising ABs for cheap-shot shoulder charge tackles.

Yes! You do need a complete overhaul of your breakdown approach - hopefully you've got the coaching staff to do it.

Fuck me a South African lecturing Kiwis on cynical forward play. I really have seen it all now.

[Sandstorm]

Laws have changed to penalise coming in at the side of a ruck or tackling a player beyond the ruck, plus refs are finally penalising ABs for cheap-shot shoulder charge tackles.

Yes! You do need a complete overhaul of your breakdown approach - hopefully you've got the coaching staff to do it.

Fuck me a South African lecturing Kiwis on cynical forward play. I really have seen it all now.

Everyone has to learn eventually. If dumb-shit Saffers can adapt, then surely The Spiritual Guardians can too?

[Torquemada 1420]

Laws have changed to penalise coming in at the side of a ruck or tackling a player beyond the ruck, plus refs are finally penalising ABs for cheap-shot shoulder charge tackles.

Yes! You do need a complete overhaul of your breakdown approach - hopefully you've got the coaching staff to do it.

Fuck me a South African lecturing Kiwis on cynical forward play. I really have seen it all now.

Everyone has to learn eventually. If dumb-shit Saffers can adapt, then surely The Spiritual Guardians can too?

They just need a Saffer ref in the mould of Joubert.

[Mr Bungle]

Fuck me a South African lecturing Kiwis on cynical forward play. I really have seen it all now.

Everyone has to learn eventually. If dumb-shit Saffers can adapt, then surely The Spiritual Guardians can too?

They just need a Saffer ref in the mould of Joubert.

He’s now living in Tauranga.

[Monkey Magic]

Laws have changed to penalise coming in at the side of a ruck or tackling a player beyond the ruck, plus refs are finally penalising ABs for cheap-shot shoulder charge tackles.

Yes! You do need a complete overhaul of your breakdown approach - hopefully you've got the coaching staff to do it.

If only these players had had months of rugby where refs were cracking down on side entry...

The forward pack getting physically bullied isn't a technique issue. Neither is slapping a guy in the face, heck even the Savea not wearing a mouth guard makes it look like the culture/attitude in the team is wrong.

[Dan54]

As did Mitchell and Deans with Rangi at 13? Hell was happening since I have watched rugby, one of best centres I have ever seen was actually a 10 (Mike Gibson) . Nothing new in it, geez Bill Osborne was a 13 who played 12 because it worked to have him and Robertson in team.

Not quite. Bill played 10 for the Whanganui High School First XV, and while he was also an accomplished centre, he played the bulk of his provincial rugby for Whanganui at 12. I know the bloke who played at 13 outside him in those days, and he's adamant that Bill was always a 12 who occasionally played 13. He was certainly at centre in his test debut (the water polo test in '75) but that was coz Robertson was injured.

Yep you could well be right, he trialled at centre for ABs, but even if he was a 12 that they played at 13, same applies he was still moved to fit him in. Same as Christain Cullen, he was a 13 right through school and into provincial rugby, got moved to 15 to fit him into team. Actually same applied to Carlos Spencer played 12 at provincial level to fit him into team too.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

As did Mitchell and Deans with Rangi at 13? Hell was happening since I have watched rugby, one of best centres I have ever seen was actually a 10 (Mike Gibson) . Nothing new in it, geez Bill Osborne was a 13 who played 12 because it worked to have him and Robertson in team.

Not quite. Bill played 10 for the Whanganui High School First XV, and while he was also an accomplished centre, he played the bulk of his provincial rugby for Whanganui at 12. I know the bloke who played at 13 outside him in those days, and he's adamant that Bill was always a 12 who occasionally played 13. He was certainly at centre in his test debut (the water polo test in '75) but that was coz Robertson was injured.

Yep you could well be right, he trialled at centre for ABs, but even if he was a 12 that they played at 13, same applies he was still moved to fit him in. Same as Christain Cullen, he was a 13 right through school and into provincial rugby, got moved to 15 to fit him into team. Actually same applied to Carlos Spencer played 12 at provincial level to fit him into team too.

As a Heartland fan from wayback I don't remember Carlos playing 12 for Horowhenua. He was always a brilliant first five as far as I recall. His fatal flaw being his goalkicking which was spectacularly shit at times, even by third division standards.

[Gumboot]

Can't say I recall Spencer ever playing 12 at provincial level, either.

[Dan54]

Can't say I recall Spencer ever playing 12 at provincial level, either.

he originally played 12 as Craig Laursen played 10 (before he went to Wellington), only ever played a few games for the mighty Nua, think he was at 12 against Auckland in Shield challenge when the bought him, not sure is it that game, he may of already gone back to 10, but know I watched him play 12 . He was already gone from The Nua by the time Cullen came into team at 13.

Mind you like NZer, I getting old and forget things
Actually think he was 10 against Auckland and Nopera Stewart may of been 12 now I thinking about it.