NPR

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:44 pm**

Suprised to see Simmonds preferred to Dombrandt at 8.

Midfield looks a bit lightweight - maybe Simmonds is going to line up, in attack, as a bosher in the 12/13 position.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.

Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:18 pm**

Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.
Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

Yep, definitely there on merit.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:32 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:36 pm Has there ever been someone with a more anonymous 26 caps than Ewels?

Louis Deacon? 29 caps and I can't remember anything he did in any of them, good or bad.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:35 pm**

Quick question to those more 'centered' on this issue than I am;

Q. Should a player being capped for the 114th time in his England career probably be at least the third-choice captain?

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:41 pm**

Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.
Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

I'm not convinced by Ludlam. Against better sides when Saints are struggling he looks a yard short of pace, moves perhaps like he's a bit too heavy. I hope he does well but I suspect both locks will cover more grass than he does, and he'll struggle to match the work that Curry and Simmonds get through. Maybe I've just seen him play in poorer games.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:08 pm**

Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.
Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

He's definitely better now than when first selected, I'm just not convinced he's necessarily better than someone like Earl who is apparently persona non grata for Eddie now. In the absence of Willis and Underhill, he's fine I guess.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:09 pm**

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:41 pm
Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.
Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

I'm not convinced by Ludlam. Against better sides when Saints are struggling he looks a yard short of pace, moves perhaps like he's a bit too heavy. I hope he does well but I suspect both locks will cover more grass than he does, and he'll struggle to match the work that Curry and Simmonds get through. Maybe I've just seen him play in poorer games.

What is Ludlam like as a Line Out option - We'll miss Lawes there.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:14 pm**

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:35 pm Quick question to those more 'centered' on this issue than I am;

Q. Should a player being capped for the 114th time in his England career probably be at least the third-choice captain?

No. Longevity of service due to perceived usefulness has nothing to do with leadership skills. Plenty of players in multiple sports have had very long careers without being a captain in a game of note.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:37 pm**

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:41 pm
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Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.
Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

I'm not convinced by Ludlam. Against better sides when Saints are struggling he looks a yard short of pace, moves perhaps like he's a bit too heavy. I hope he does well but I suspect both locks will cover more grass than he does, and he'll struggle to match the work that Curry and Simmonds get through. Maybe I've just seen him play in poorer games.

He does look like he's put on a bit of bulk, but I've also seen him shift fairly rapidly at times. He's not and never will be world class, but hopefully the new and improved Ludlam Mk II will do a job at international level.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:09 pm
What is Ludlam like as a Line Out option - We'll miss Lawes there.

He takes a few, but he's not a backrow line out specialist like say, Tom Wood is, who takes a lot more ball for Saints. I'd also rather see him at 7 than 6, that's where he plays most of his rugby for Saints.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:37 pm**

Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 am Said it in the match thread, that's a better back line selection than I'd feared.

Pack is what it is given the lock situation. I feel Ludlam's a bit lucky to be there tbh.

A sensible 5 - 3 split on the bench is a good thing.
Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

I haven't seen much of Saints this season but I thought Ludlam was noticeably excellent last season. I'm looking forward to seeing him play.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:37 pm**

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:09 pm
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:41 pm
Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm

Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

I'm not convinced by Ludlam. Against better sides when Saints are struggling he looks a yard short of pace, moves perhaps like he's a bit too heavy. I hope he does well but I suspect both locks will cover more grass than he does, and he'll struggle to match the work that Curry and Simmonds get through. Maybe I've just seen him play in poorer games.
What is Ludlam like as a Line Out option - We'll miss Lawes there.

It's part of the reason why Isiekwe got picked I suspect. Ironically, I thought Isiekwe outshone Ludlam when he was on loan at Saints.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:06 pm**

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:09 pm
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:41 pm
Oxbow wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:02 pm

Ludlam has actually been in cracking form this season, much better than when he was first picked for England which even as a Saints fan felt like one of Eddie's lucky dip picks at the time. I've got no problem with him being selected now.

I'm not convinced by Ludlam. Against better sides when Saints are struggling he looks a yard short of pace, moves perhaps like he's a bit too heavy. I hope he does well but I suspect both locks will cover more grass than he does, and he'll struggle to match the work that Curry and Simmonds get through. Maybe I've just seen him play in poorer games.
What is Ludlam like as a Line Out option - We'll miss Lawes there.

Curry is a lineout option no?

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:53 pm**

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:35 pm Quick question to those more 'centered' on this issue than I am;

Q. Should a player being capped for the 114th time in his England career probably be at least the third-choice captain?

Think this is the weakest anti-Youngs argument. No one is suggesting Jimmy Anderson takes over from Joe Root. Captaincy is it's own skill.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:57 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:53 pm
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:35 pm Quick question to those more 'centered' on this issue than I am;

Q. Should a player being capped for the 114th time in his England career probably be at least the third-choice captain?
Think this is the weakest anti-Youngs argument. No one is suggesting Jimmy Anderson takes over from Joe Root. Captaincy is it's own skill.

For sure. Just looking at the upper reaches of the most capped list. The likes of Cole and Leonard never captained Eng iirc. Doesn't really detract from the value they added during their time in the team. There were always people better suited to that specific task.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:58 pm**

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:57 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:53 pm
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:35 pm Quick question to those more 'centered' on this issue than I am;

Q. Should a player being capped for the 114th time in his England career probably be at least the third-choice captain?
Think this is the weakest anti-Youngs argument. No one is suggesting Jimmy Anderson takes over from Joe Root. Captaincy is it's own skill.
For sure. Just looking at the upper reaches of the most capped list. The likes of Cole and Leonard never captained Eng iirc. Doesn't really detract from the value they added during their time in the team. There were always people better suited to that specific task.

Leonard did a couple of times iirc, but your point is valid

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:01 pm**

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:06 pm
Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:09 pm
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:41 pm

I'm not convinced by Ludlam. Against better sides when Saints are struggling he looks a yard short of pace, moves perhaps like he's a bit too heavy. I hope he does well but I suspect both locks will cover more grass than he does, and he'll struggle to match the work that Curry and Simmonds get through. Maybe I've just seen him play in poorer games.
What is Ludlam like as a Line Out option - We'll miss Lawes there.
Curry is a lineout option no?

Yes, but not in the same way that Lawes is - and we're used to having both of them as well as our Locks as Line Out options.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:04 pm**

Hence why I qualified my question to come from somebody with a more level-headed opinion of Youngs than I possess.

I would add that he does play scrumhalf though. It's a position where you really should have at least some leadership skill.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:35 pm**

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:58 pm
Leonard did a couple of times iirc, but your point is valid

Cheers. I did pause a bit when I wrote that!

Bet he's got a captaincy after dinner speaking yarn or two.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:49 pm**

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:04 pm Hence why I qualified my question to come from somebody with a more level-headed opinion of Youngs than I possess.

I would add that he does play scrumhalf though. It's a position where you really should have at least some leadership skill.

He's slow enough already; would you really want to cram another set of decisions into his slothlike mind ?

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:18 pm**

My rare trip in here to say here's to a good game on Saturday.

Hopefully we'll see two sides at their best but fear the weather will be a major factor.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:34 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:49 pm
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:04 pm Hence why I qualified my question to come from somebody with a more level-headed opinion of Youngs than I possess.

I would add that he does play scrumhalf though. It's a position where you really should have at least some leadership skill.
He's slow enough already; would you really want to cram another set of decisions into his slothlike mind ?

Alternatively, could it short out what passes for his brain and leave him playing instinctively which is generally when he's best?

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm**

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:18 pm My rare trip in here to say here's to a good game on Saturday.

Hopefully we'll see two sides at their best but fear the weather will be a major factor.

We can all unite against shit weather threatening the spectacle.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:36 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm
Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:18 pm My rare trip in here to say here's to a good game on Saturday.

Hopefully we'll see two sides at their best but fear the weather will be a major factor.

We can all unite against shit weather threatening the spectacle.

I still shudder at the memory of the weather 2 years ago and I was in a covered stand

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:43 pm**

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:18 pm My rare trip in here to say here's to a good game on Saturday.

Hopefully we'll see two sides at their best but fear the weather will be a major factor.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:24 pm**

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:36 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm
Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:18 pm My rare trip in here to say here's to a good game on Saturday.

Hopefully we'll see two sides at their best but fear the weather will be a major factor.

We can all unite against shit weather threatening the spectacle.
I still shudder at the memory of the weather 2 years ago and I was in a covered stand

I genuinely feared for peoples lives as we walked out at the end

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:26 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:24 pm
Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:36 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm

We can all unite against shit weather threatening the spectacle.
I still shudder at the memory of the weather 2 years ago and I was in a covered stand
I genuinely feared for peoples lives as we walked out at the end

Those poor bastards pitch side in the stand to our right..... jesus

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:25 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:24 pm
Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:36 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm

We can all unite against shit weather threatening the spectacle.
I still shudder at the memory of the weather 2 years ago and I was in a covered stand
I genuinely feared for peoples lives as we walked out at the end

Why, was Ryan Wilson there giving it the big talk?

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:59 am**

Say what you will for Eddie, that's a ballsy selection. One that might not come off in the dry, and it could it seems be other than dry.

I don't know I exactly like it, but I certainly like the threat we pose. Maybe this is a selection to build on the last 6N, even if it feels we could have the odd nod to conservatism in a few selections return in the matches ahead

I hope if this fails we don't retreat too much from the intent, for sure we're away past any honeymoon period so any criticism is fine, but I do like that over and over almost the stick or twist call has gone with twist, whether Genge, Isiekwe, Ludlam, Randall, Slade at 12, he's just kept pushing, and done so in a way I'd like to see rugby follow. Even allowing for I'd quite like a more established 5, 6, 12, 13, wingers, bench, and even allowing for I'm not sold on some of those selections.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:13 am**

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:35 am 15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)

14. Max Malins (Saracens, 10 caps)

13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 52 caps)

12. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 43 caps)

11. Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 7 caps)

10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 5 caps)

9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 112 caps)

1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 31 caps)

2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 31 caps)

3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 47 caps)

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 51 caps)

5. Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 3 caps)

6. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

7. Tom Curry (c) (Sale Sharks, 36 caps)

8. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps)

Finishers

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 61 caps)

17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 74 caps)

18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)

19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 26 caps)

20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 4 caps)

21. Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)

22. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 77 caps)

23. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 34 caps)

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... names-side

that pack looks lightweight to me

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:14 pm**

Scottish U20s well on top so far.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:22 pm**

The French ref has decided who is going to win hasn't he.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:23 pm**

England U20s are currently shitting out penalties like they've been taking lessons from the senior side.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:24 pm**

Never seen an English U20s team this comprehensively outmuscled, especially not by Scots.

But, holy shit if we can get it out wide we've got a game. What pace from Arundell!

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:26 pm**

Fuck me he’s swift.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:26 pm**

That's better.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:28 pm**

Rapid!

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:34 pm**

Diageo Bailey has brought his Bath attitude.

p.s this ref is very dodgy.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:34 pm**

Clear knock on from the Scots on the touchline in the build up to that.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:36 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:34 pm Clear knock on from the Scots on the touchline in the build up to that.

It was blatant.

The earlier sack on the England 9 at the back of the scrum was also bizarre.

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