The Official English Rugby Thread

[Ovals]

The TMO and then the ref called it a knock on, hence the scrum for Scotland. If you go into that tackle with your hand forward like that you are trying to dislodge the ball.

For me that is a deliberate knock on.

Yes, but you're a hopelessly parochial observer.

May I ask how old you are?

Why ? Are you ageist ?

[Lobby]

Good game to watch, the U20s is often good entertainment, played at pace and with lots of ambition - Scots have already done better than last term, when they didn't get a single point from their games. England looked very good with ball in hand and when attacking from deep - but won't be happy with conceding 4 tries - so a bit of work to be done there.

England’s forwards were dreadful for the first 50 minutes, and the backs looked pretty disorganized too on the few occasions when they did get the ball. It was largely the full back’s brilliance that kept them in the match. As Toga said, the change of fly half made a big difference to England’s play and organization in the second half.

Scotland’s forwards did very well, but ran out of steam in the second half. Townsend apart, their backs didn’t look very threatening.

[Tichtheid]

Yes, but you're a hopelessly parochial observer.

May I ask how old you are?

Why ? Are you ageist ?

I don't think I am, but this particular poster seems to go personal very quickly very often, and I was just wondering if it was due to youth and being exposed to online norms.

It was just a question.

[Kawazaki]

The TMO and then the ref called it a knock on, hence the scrum for Scotland. If you go into that tackle with your hand forward like that you are trying to dislodge the ball.

For me that is a deliberate knock on.

Yes, but you're a hopelessly parochial observer.

May I ask how old you are?

Are you struggling with what parochial means?

[Tichtheid]

Yes, but you're a hopelessly parochial observer.

May I ask how old you are?

Are you struggling with what parochial means?

No, but you did just prove my point.

[Kawazaki]

May I ask how old you are?

Are you struggling with what parochial means?

No, but you did just prove my point.

You were making a point?

That's grand.

[Margin__Walker]

That was electric. Arundell's a serious talent.

There are few answers to red hot pace like that in a broken field, he looks terrific

Indeed, he also has some feet on him and doesn't seem to slow down when shifting direction. Made good decisions hen running out of real estate too.

Tom Parton at Irish must be looking nervously over his shoulder.

Told you all the other day how good he is. Unreal balance and acceleration. Decent ball player too and can kick. He's been the best back on the pitch in both senior games he's played for LI.

He's much better than Parton at the same age. Hopefully not a flash in the pan

[Tichtheid]

There are few answers to red hot pace like that in a broken field, he looks terrific

Indeed, he also has some feet on him and doesn't seem to slow down when shifting direction. Made good decisions hen running out of real estate too.

Tom Parton at Irish must be looking nervously over his shoulder.

Told you all the other day how good he is. Unreal balance and acceleration. Decent ball player too and can kick. He's been the best back on the pitch in both senior games he's played for LI.

He's much better than Parton at the same age. Hopefully not a flash in the pan

He'll face better-organised defences than the dross he was running through tonight, but good luck to him, he looks very promising.

For us I though Leatherboarrow carried well and Townsend Jnr showed a couple of moves

[Margin__Walker]

He'll face better-organised defences than the dross he was running through tonight, but good luck to him, he looks very promising.

For us I though Leatherboarrow carried well and Townsend Jnr showed a couple of moves

I thought Scotland looked decent for large parts of that. Pack were certainly on top in that first half and they deserved the TBP at the end. Enough to build on there for sure.

That big wing could end up being pretty handy too.

[Ovals]

Shame we aren't going to see Barbeary causing havoc off the bench - but Wasps will be glad to have him back.

Edit - seems Eddie has broken him - slight hamstring issue.

Lee Blackett voiced this specific concern when he was called up.

Eddie obviously has his exacting training standards, but you'd think you might go a little easier on a kid who's only a couple of months back from a loooong lay off.

Would've been nice to have him back this week and not need to pad the back row out with a hooker and a lock again.

Seems he wasn't that broken - he's starting against Exeter. Wasps side is starting to look half decent with the guys coming back from injury, against an Exeter side shorn of a few internationals courtesy of the 6N.

Exeter: Hodge; Woodburn, Hendrickson, H Skinner, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds (capt), S Maunder; Hepburn, Innard, Schickerling, Kirsten, Jenkins, Ewers, Capstick, Grondona.

Replacements: Yeandle, Moon, Iosefa-Scott, Pearson, Norey, Hidalgo-Clyne, O'Brien, Cordero.

Wasps: Watson; Odogwu, Fekitoa, Gopperth, Bassett; Atkinson, Robson; West, Cruse, Alo, Launchbury (capt), Stooke, Fifita, Shields, Barbeary.

Replacements: Oghre, Hislop, Millar-Mills, Gaskell, Morris, Porter, Spink, Miller.

[Kawazaki]

Shame we aren't going to see Barbeary causing havoc off the bench - but Wasps will be glad to have him back.

Edit - seems Eddie has broken him - slight hamstring issue.

Lee Blackett voiced this specific concern when he was called up.

Eddie obviously has his exacting training standards, but you'd think you might go a little easier on a kid who's only a couple of months back from a loooong lay off.

Would've been nice to have him back this week and not need to pad the back row out with a hooker and a lock again.

Seems he wasn't that broken - he's starting against Exeter. Wasps side is starting to look half decent with the guys coming back from injury, against an Exeter side shorn of a few internationals courtesy of the 6N.

Exeter: Hodge; Woodburn, Hendrickson, H Skinner, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds (capt), S Maunder; Hepburn, Innard, Schickerling, Kirsten, Jenkins, Ewers, Capstick, Grondona.

Replacements: Yeandle, Moon, Iosefa-Scott, Pearson, Norey, Hidalgo-Clyne, O'Brien, Cordero.

Wasps: Watson; Odogwu, Fekitoa, Gopperth, Bassett; Atkinson, Robson; West, Cruse, Alo, Launchbury (capt), Stooke, Fifita, Shields, Barbeary.

Replacements: Oghre, Hislop, Millar-Mills, Gaskell, Morris, Porter, Spink, Miller.

Wasps are odds-on 3/5 favourites to win away at Exeter with the bookies.

[sockwithaticket]

Shame we aren't going to see Barbeary causing havoc off the bench - but Wasps will be glad to have him back.

Edit - seems Eddie has broken him - slight hamstring issue.

Lee Blackett voiced this specific concern when he was called up.

Eddie obviously has his exacting training standards, but you'd think you might go a little easier on a kid who's only a couple of months back from a loooong lay off.

Would've been nice to have him back this week and not need to pad the back row out with a hooker and a lock again.

Seems he wasn't that broken - he's starting against Exeter. Wasps side is starting to look half decent with the guys coming back from injury, against an Exeter side shorn of a few internationals courtesy of the 6N.

Exeter: Hodge; Woodburn, Hendrickson, H Skinner, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds (capt), S Maunder; Hepburn, Innard, Schickerling, Kirsten, Jenkins, Ewers, Capstick, Grondona.

Replacements: Yeandle, Moon, Iosefa-Scott, Pearson, Norey, Hidalgo-Clyne, O'Brien, Cordero.

Wasps: Watson; Odogwu, Fekitoa, Gopperth, Bassett; Atkinson, Robson; West, Cruse, Alo, Launchbury (capt), Stooke, Fifita, Shields, Barbeary.

Replacements: Oghre, Hislop, Millar-Mills, Gaskell, Morris, Porter, Spink, Miller.

Good to see he's ok enough to play.

That's possibly the strongest team we've put out all season.

The unavailable list is finally down to single figures:
Dan Frost, Francois Hougaard, Zach Kibirige, Rodrigo Martinez, Matteo Minozzi, Jacob Umaga, Jack Willis, Tom Willis, Thomas Young.

Actually fancy our chances against that Exeter line up.

[weegie01]

Good game to watch, the U20s is often good entertainment, played at pace and with lots of ambition - Scots have already done better than last term, when they didn't get a single point from their games. England looked very good with ball in hand and when attacking from deep - but won't be happy with conceding 4 tries - so a bit of work to be done there.

England’s forwards were dreadful for the first 50 minutes, and the backs looked pretty disorganized too on the few occasions when they did get the ball. It was largely the full back’s brilliance that kept them in the match. As Toga said, the change of fly half made a big difference to England’s play and organization in the second half.

Scotland’s forwards did very well, but ran out of steam in the second half. Townsend apart, their backs didn’t look very threatening.

For most of the Scottish domestic players this was their first competitive match since October, bar one A game between Edinburgh and Glasgow. The new structure of the Scottish season really handicaps these guys.

[sockwithaticket]

Good game to watch, the U20s is often good entertainment, played at pace and with lots of ambition - Scots have already done better than last term, when they didn't get a single point from their games. England looked very good with ball in hand and when attacking from deep - but won't be happy with conceding 4 tries - so a bit of work to be done there.

England’s forwards were dreadful for the first 50 minutes, and the backs looked pretty disorganized too on the few occasions when they did get the ball. It was largely the full back’s brilliance that kept them in the match. As Toga said, the change of fly half made a big difference to England’s play and organization in the second half.

Scotland’s forwards did very well, but ran out of steam in the second half. Townsend apart, their backs didn’t look very threatening.

For most of the Scottish domestic players this was their first competitive match since October, bar one A game between Edinburgh and Glasgow. The new structure of the Scottish season really handicaps these guys.

As far as I know the Prem A -league hasn't resumed after covid suspension, so it'd be the same for most of the England Team. Being a newer intake there's definitely fewer with first team club experience than we often see.

[weegie01]

England’s forwards were dreadful for the first 50 minutes, and the backs looked pretty disorganized too on the few occasions when they did get the ball. It was largely the full back’s brilliance that kept them in the match. As Toga said, the change of fly half made a big difference to England’s play and organization in the second half.

Scotland’s forwards did very well, but ran out of steam in the second half. Townsend apart, their backs didn’t look very threatening.

For most of the Scottish domestic players this was their first competitive match since October, bar one A game between Edinburgh and Glasgow. The new structure of the Scottish season really handicaps these guys.

As far as I know the Prem A -league hasn't resumed after covid suspension, so it'd be the same for most of the England Team. Being a newer intake there's definitely fewer with first team club experience than we often see.

I was not aware of that, so much the same for both.

[SaintK]

England’s forwards were dreadful for the first 50 minutes, and the backs looked pretty disorganized too on the few occasions when they did get the ball. It was largely the full back’s brilliance that kept them in the match. As Toga said, the change of fly half made a big difference to England’s play and organization in the second half.

Scotland’s forwards did very well, but ran out of steam in the second half. Townsend apart, their backs didn’t look very threatening.

For most of the Scottish domestic players this was their first competitive match since October, bar one A game between Edinburgh and Glasgow. The new structure of the Scottish season really handicaps these guys.

As far as I know the Prem A -league hasn't resumed after covid suspension, so it'd be the same for most of the England Team. Being a newer intake there's definitely fewer with first team club experience than we often see.

Correct and they had one warm up match against Oxford University

[sockwithaticket]

It seems Wasps' recent influx of fit again players has completely decimated our defensive alignment. Conceded a couple of very soft tries in addition to blowing our own promising opportunities. Exeter well on top at half time.

[Kawazaki]

33 minutes left and Bath have conceded 16 penalties already. No YCs.

[sockwithaticket]

Wasps manage to pull a win out of the bag in the 85th minute with a second for Odogwu.

Crap most of the game and shelled a load of chances, but we dug it out. in the end.

Thought Chiefs were fortunate not to get a yellow for repeat infringements in their 22.

Miller should be starting at 15 ahead of Watson, did more in 15 minutes than Watson's managed in most of his Wasps career...

[geordie_6]

Lee Blackett voiced this specific concern when he was called up.

Eddie obviously has his exacting training standards, but you'd think you might go a little easier on a kid who's only a couple of months back from a loooong lay off.

Would've been nice to have him back this week and not need to pad the back row out with a hooker and a lock again.

Seems he wasn't that broken - he's starting against Exeter. Wasps side is starting to look half decent with the guys coming back from injury, against an Exeter side shorn of a few internationals courtesy of the 6N.

Exeter: Hodge; Woodburn, Hendrickson, H Skinner, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds (capt), S Maunder; Hepburn, Innard, Schickerling, Kirsten, Jenkins, Ewers, Capstick, Grondona.

Replacements: Yeandle, Moon, Iosefa-Scott, Pearson, Norey, Hidalgo-Clyne, O'Brien, Cordero.

Wasps: Watson; Odogwu, Fekitoa, Gopperth, Bassett; Atkinson, Robson; West, Cruse, Alo, Launchbury (capt), Stooke, Fifita, Shields, Barbeary.

Replacements: Oghre, Hislop, Millar-Mills, Gaskell, Morris, Porter, Spink, Miller.

Good to see he's ok enough to play.

That's possibly the strongest team we've put out all season.

The unavailable list is finally down to single figures:
Dan Frost, Francois Hougaard, Zach Kibirige, Rodrigo Martinez, Matteo Minozzi, Jacob Umaga, Jack Willis, Tom Willis, Thomas Young.

Actually fancy our chances against that Exeter line up.

Has Willis, J got a return date as of yet?

[sockwithaticket]

Has Willis, J got a return date as of yet?

Nothing firm, but they confirmed he was back doing warm up drills with the team the other week.

[Kawazaki]

Just seen what Ewels does well.


He sings the national anthem really enthusiastically.

[sockwithaticket]

So blunt and incapable of making possession and territory pay.

[Oxbow]

Here's an idea Eddie, why not take Smith off but leave Youngs on for the whole fucking game.

[Crash669]

Pray for this englishman living in Scotland. It's going to be a long fucking night.

[JM2K6]

Eddie Jones, fuck off already.

Ben Youngs was absolute fucking pigswill, again, and played the full 80 minutes. England made space and then we discovered they were making space just to kick the ball away as a very clear tactic. Smith wasn't great, which isn't that surprising given everything, but Youngs was dreadful and the gameplan was dreadful and the decision to keep George off when we had a 5m lineout on our own line was dreadful and everything about that fucking sucked, despite the pack putting in a huge effort to get us that much possession and territory.

Here's what makes me most angry: For all the change in personnel, for all the talent put into the team, we see Smith and Slade and Daly and Malins and Marchant and see talented in-form runners and superb creative players. Eddie sees five players who can kick.

It used to be that Eddie would shit the bed and send England away from home with Youngs/Ford/Farrell under orders to kick it high and long and soak up pressure no matter whether we were winning or losing. All that he's changed is that we fucking kicked to the corners, and that we chose to do it after making space out wide. Time and time again we made space and it was kicked. Time and time again Ben Youngs did something completely shit.

Just dreadful.

[Lobby]

Can’t see England beating Ireland Or France, so we’re competing with Wales for 4th or 5th place.

Dreadful performance, and presumably will use Smith’s missed penalty kick as an excuse to drop him, and ignore Ford’s two feeble kicks when England desperately needed territory, but Ford only gained about 10 meters each time.

Young’s was dire.

[JM2K6]

Can’t see England beating Ireland Or France, so we’re competing with Wales for 4th or 5th place.

Dreadful performance, and presumably will use Smith’s missed penalty kick as an excuse to drop him, and ignore Ford’s two feeble kicks when England desperately needed territory, but Ford only gained about 10 meters each time.

Young’s was dire.

So I was really disappointed with Smith's kicking into the 22, very conservative with the exception of the one where he went for broke. I don't think it's coincidental that Ford came on and was exactly the same.

[Margin__Walker]

Well that was piss.

In a lightweight backline with hybrid wings, I've no idea why you don't stick a big proper wing like OHC on one wing.

[JM2K6]

Well that was piss.

In a lightweight backline with hybrid wings, I've no idea why you don't stick a big proper wing like OHC on one wing.

If you pick OHC is he going to run into space and then kick the ball away? No, he's going to try and keep the ball and try and score or put other players in. That is not acceptable Eddie Jones Away Rugby.

[petej]

Can’t see England beating Ireland Or France, so we’re competing with Wales for 4th or 5th place.

Dreadful performance, and presumably will use Smith’s missed penalty kick as an excuse to drop him, and ignore Ford’s two feeble kicks when England desperately needed territory, but Ford only gained about 10 meters each time.

Young’s was dire.

So I was really disappointed with Smith's kicking into the 22, very conservative with the exception of the one where he went for broke. I don't think it's coincidental that Ford came on and was exactly the same.

Yeah. Think they were the wrong side for ford and the wind was clearly an issue for both 10s. Still such a mystifying sub as smith looked more settled and Youngs was obviously the halfback that needed to be removed. Also having totally dumped ford surely he only gets on if smith is injured or the game is comfortably won. The bringing back Daly into midfield is strange as has Daly been playing well enough to justify being selected?

[JM2K6]

Can’t see England beating Ireland Or France, so we’re competing with Wales for 4th or 5th place.

Dreadful performance, and presumably will use Smith’s missed penalty kick as an excuse to drop him, and ignore Ford’s two feeble kicks when England desperately needed territory, but Ford only gained about 10 meters each time.

Young’s was dire.

So I was really disappointed with Smith's kicking into the 22, very conservative with the exception of the one where he went for broke. I don't think it's coincidental that Ford came on and was exactly the same.

Yeah. Think they were the wrong side for ford and the wind was clearly an issue for both 10s. Still such a mystifying sub as smith looked more settled and Youngs was obviously the halfback that needed to be removed. Also having totally dumped ford surely he only gets on if smith is injured or the game is comfortably won. The bringing back Daly into midfield is strange as has Daly been playing well enough to justify being selected?

Marchant's been in fine form as a 13, and that would mean we could also pick an actual career winger too. But hey. I had hoped that maybe we picked Daly to make use of his running abilities. Silly me, I forgot about his boot.

[Margin__Walker]

Well that was piss.

In a lightweight backline with hybrid wings, I've no idea why you don't stick a big proper wing like OHC on one wing.

If you pick OHC is he going to run into space and then kick the ball away? No, he's going to try and keep the ball and try and score or put other players in. That is not acceptable Eddie Jones Away Rugby.

It's weird. I like Malins and Marchant, but I don't think either of them are amongst the very best wings in the prem. There has to be someone out wide that can break the line and run one in from a long way out.

Edit - As you say above. Marchant is a superb 13. Play him there.

[Margin__Walker]

But mainly watching Youngs play makes me want to cry. There's no tempo. Ever

[JM2K6]

But mainly watching Youngs play makes me want to cry. There's no tempo. Ever

I feel you’re discounting the tempo of the incredibly regular cries of FFS YOUNGS from England fans

[Kawazaki]

Well that was piss.

In a lightweight backline with hybrid wings, I've no idea why you don't stick a big proper wing like OHC on one wing.

If you pick OHC is he going to run into space and then kick the ball away? No, he's going to try and keep the ball and try and score or put other players in. That is not acceptable Eddie Jones Away Rugby.

It's weird. I like Malins and Marchant, but I don't think either of them are amongst the very best wings in the prem. There has to be someone out wide that can break the line and run one in from a long way out.

The kick where Hogg had to run back to collect and Malins near got him on the Scottish line was a classic case where, had Eddiot picked Radwan then Hogg would have been toast.

Jones is like a tumour in England rugby. He draws a huge salary, has surrounded himself with yes men, and he's just pocketing the money and dialling it in. It's so obvious.

[petej]

So I was really disappointed with Smith's kicking into the 22, very conservative with the exception of the one where he went for broke. I don't think it's coincidental that Ford came on and was exactly the same.

Yeah. Think they were the wrong side for ford and the wind was clearly an issue for both 10s. Still such a mystifying sub as smith looked more settled and Youngs was obviously the halfback that needed to be removed. Also having totally dumped ford surely he only gets on if smith is injured or the game is comfortably won. The bringing back Daly into midfield is strange as has Daly been playing well enough to justify being selected?

Marchant's been in fine form as a 13, and that would mean we could also pick an actual career winger too. But hey. I had hoped that maybe we picked Daly to make use of his running abilities. Silly me, I forgot about his boot.

Nah Jones definitely knows better than coaches at quins and sarries who play Marchant at 13 and Daly on the wing

[Hal Jordan]

My "Drank through the horror and then the wife decided that the wine should be opened with dinner" thoughts.

Pleased with Ludlam and Isiekwe, both did very well for players that hadn't done much in an England shirt previously.

Simmonds and Smith were picked for what appeared to be a team that was looking to keep ball in hand and so naturally we ground it and kicked it.

Pack had no carrying threat, neither did the backs. Sinckler spent the whole match at first receiver, standing still, I can't remember anything Genge did and for all his talents, Itoje is not a hard carrier.

Daly was apparently there, fucked if I can remember what he did except be asked to pull off a miracle carry at the death.

I can't see a future for Marchant at wing. He's very effective for Quins, but it's a whole different thing at Test level. Malins is worth it, but we need a proper winger to compliment him.

Youngs can fuck off, but Jones will continue to pick him until the heat death of the Universe.

Tactics were fucking garbage.

I'm sure we've learnt lessons.

[petej]

If you pick OHC is he going to run into space and then kick the ball away? No, he's going to try and keep the ball and try and score or put other players in. That is not acceptable Eddie Jones Away Rugby.

It's weird. I like Malins and Marchant, but I don't think either of them are amongst the very best wings in the prem. There has to be someone out wide that can break the line and run one in from a long way out.

The kick where Hogg had to run back to collect and Malins near got him on the Scottish line was a classic case where, had Eddiot picked Radwan then Hogg would have been toast.

Jones is like a tumour in England rugby. He draws a huge salary, has surrounded himself with yes men, and he's just pocketing the money and dialling it in. It's so obvious.

Jones like every coach has a shelf life and he took us from being knocked out of a home world cup at the group stage to a world cup final which I appreciate and he had earned the right to regenerate that team but he hasn't done so.

[Kawazaki]

Some news outlets player ratings for England. This is why Youngs keeps getting picked. In 3 ratings from rugby hacks he gets two 7s and an 8.

Maybe it's us? Maybe we're wrong and Youngs really is a world-class 114 cap player?

Telegraph

15. Freddie Steward
Struggled to get into the game with the ball-in-hand, with his afternoon encapsulated by dropped ball early in the second half. 6

14. Max Malins
Looked dangerous with the ball-in-hand. A couple of great takes under the high ball and had a half-chance down the line in the first half. 6

13. Elliot Daly
Started off brilliantly, but his influence faded as Harris got the measure of him. 7

12. Henry Slade
Combined well with Smith as a distributor but really struggled to get any change from Scotland's midfield defence. 7

11. Joe Marchant
Stood up by Graham for Scotland's first try and was horribly exposed by his opposite number. A defensive performance he'll want to forget. 5

10. Marcus Smith
Started low-key but ended with 17 points thanks to excellent place-kicking and lovely blindside switch and ruthless turn of pace for his try. 9

9. Ben Youngs
Looked rejuvenated, with his first half break the first real moment of quality shown by the visitors, Slick service and flawless decision-making. 8

1. Ellis Genge
Strong in the scrum and bristled with intent in the loose, but lack of accuracy hindered him as he gave away penalty which extended Scotland's lead. 7

2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
What was that grubber kick in Scotland's 22 all about? And the rush of blood to palm the ball out for a yellow-card and penalty try? Madness. 3

3. Kyle Sinckler
Carried well and got a good early nudge in the scrum against his fellow Lion Rory Sutherland. Good work at ruck time. 7

4. Maro Itoje
His muscular impact post-tackle was one of the major reasons why England's forwards got the better of their battle with the Scottish front five. 8

5. Nick Isiekwe
Good lineout work, carried with conviction and put in a huge shift at the coalface as the English front five bullied their Scottish counterparts. 7

6. Lewis Ludlam
Did a lot of great work at the breakdown and was one of the reasons why England's back row dominated 6

7. Tom Curry
Took on Scotland's back row and won the contest of feet and inches without ever looking like making a clean break. Hugely influential at the breakdown. 7

8. Sam Simmonds
Injected real pace when given the ball in open play, but that was far too infrequent. 5

Sports Joe

Freddie Steward - 7
Max Malins - 7
Elliot Daly - 5
Henry Slade - 6
Joe Marchant - 5
Marcus Smith - 8
Ben Youngs - 7
Ellis Genge - 7
Luke Cowan-Dickie - 5
Kyle Sinckler - 7
Maro Itoje - 6
Nick Isiekwe - 5
Lewis Ludlam - 7
Tom Curry - 5
Sam Simmonds - 8

Ruck

England: Freddie Steward 6, Max Malins 5, Elliot Daly 6, Henry Slade 7 , Joe Marchant 6, Marcus Smith 8, Ben Youngs 7; Ellis Genge 7, Luke Cowan-Dickie 3, Kyle Sinckler 6, Maro Itoje 7, Nick Isiekwe 6, Lewis Ludlam 6, Tom Curry (c) 7, Sam Simmonds 7