NPR

I've made a list of where all the crazy head bangers are sending their votes (confirmed ERG members or Spartans). Out of the candidates, Braverman/Javid/Mordaunt/Patel are confirmed to have been ERG members at some point, and Braverman/Patel were both Spartans and voted down May's deal.

Badenoch - 4 (Gove, Tomlinson, Lopez, Rowley)
Braverman - 5 (Baker, Hollobone, Lewis, Jones, Smith, Swayne)
Hunt 2 (Djanogly, Kawczynski)
Javid - 2 (Latham, Wood)
Mordaunt - 1 (Leadsom)
Patel - no declared supporters.
Truss - 6 (Coffey, Cleverly, Doyle-Price, Fysh, Jayawardena, Shelbrooke)
Tugendhat - 1 (Morris)
Shapps - 1 (Courts)
Sunak - 2 (Afolami, Fox)
Tugendhat - 1 (Trevelyan)
Zahawi - 2 (Gullis, Lewis)

Considering the amount who have declared for Sunak (38)/Mordaunt (23)/Tugendhat (21) they have very low numbers from the head banger pool, they're the top 3 on declarations of support but only have 4 head bangers between them. Sunak's talk of "ending the fairy tales" (in a party that runs on them) seems about trying to knock out Hunt/Tugendhat and maybe also Javid/Mordaunt, leaving their supporters with nowhere else to go but Sunak.

Truss (17) is leading the head banger count and is the fourth most supported candidate so far. But the appearance of Braverman (12) and now also Badenoch (15) and Patel, is probably about a lot of head bangers not wanting Truss to be their candidate. The head banger count relative to their total support tells the story, for each of them a third to half their declared support is from the head bangers. It's a bit of a lottery which candidate most of them will settle on, I think Truss implodes, and one of Mordaunt/Braverman/Patel/Badenoch (I'm guessing they dislike Javid as he's always been an option) consolidates all this support.

Tory members then pick between probably Sunak who "ends the fairy tales" by continuing the current Brexit policy, or someone nuts and beholden to the crazies.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:10 am So Raab comes out for Sunak and Rees-Mogg and Dorries come out for Truss who is now firmly positioned as the stop Sunak candidate.
With friends like that.................................................................etc

Ah fuck, I've made a rod for my own starting the head banger list.

Also now suddenly Truss isn't imploding.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:43 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:19 am Euro>Dollar parity right now.

I don't think this a signal of doom for the EZ economy (mostly just the dollar strengthening) but I do know people would be going f*cking nuts if this was the £.

The German economy really does look to be in the shit, wonder if some Southern Europeans will try and stick a knife in.

Southern Europe is no better. That debt and borrowing with rising interest rates? Oh dear. If the ruskis do continue turning off the taps the winter is going to be very interesting in the EU.

This is what I meant - Cliffe is of course quite a Germanophile.

He hasn't got the message at all, has he?

Sounds like a plan. Wheel him on for elections to tell outright lies and rabble rouse to the average memory of a gadfly voter who doesn’t like Brown/Milliband/Corbyn/Starmer etc….”don’t know what it is but I just don’t like him” (Mail/Express tucked under arm) then ditch him a few months later.
Repeat ad infinitum

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:10 am He hasn't got the message at all, has he?

I’d have my doubts about his veracity even if he had ruled it out.

https://order-order.com/2022/07/12/bren ... to-smears/

I wonder if Kemi will fly in under the radar and scoop the big prize.




https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 20709.html

Christ help us all if she does, she's full on culture war and climate change denier material.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:01 pm

https://order-order.com/2022/07/12/bren ... to-smears/

I know it's hilarious isn't it?

The poor sap admitting he was in the wrong, taking responsibility for his actions and offering to make a donation to the subject's the charity of choice.

What a foolish thing to do, wtf is he thinking?

ia801310 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:08 pm I wonder if Kemi will fly in under the radar and scoop the big prize.




https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 20709.html

What's bizarre is she doesn't realise that Ben and Jerry's moralising is just a marketing ploy - their sales increased last year. The Tories electing a culture warrior when the nation is facing a cost of living crisis is just misreading what people care about. Badenoch complaining that she doesn't like Ben and Jerry's business strategy as the country feels wages go down, prices go up and nothing working well is a recipe for electoral disaster.

Heathrow airport cancelling more flights and limiting passenger numbers to 100,000 per day. Combination of Brexit and Covid after effects at play.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:51 pm Heathrow airport cancelling more flights and limiting passenger numbers to 100,000 per day. Pre pandemic it was double that. Combination of Brexit and Covid after effects at play.

All blue passported up and nowhere to go.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:51 pm Heathrow airport cancelling more flights and limiting passenger numbers to 100,000 per day. Combination of Brexit and Covid after effects at play.

Oof. Think that's about half capacity.

Global Britain is going well.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:34 am

ia801310 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:26 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:07 am

No, the only surprise is that it took so long to come out. There's very few cases anywhere where you send in the troops and something like this doesn't happen.

Will be interesting to see if Labour make a big thing if it. I think they got pretty burnt by the Phil Shiner saga.

Politically it doesn't make sense to. Nobody in the UK will give you credit for locking up British soldiers even if they were going around murdering people. And Starmer made it a pledge to end illegal wars and strengthen human rights abroad so I'm sure he'll have no interest as he doesn't much enjoy keeping to his leadership election promises.

A very bad look when you are trying to aid the prosecution of Russian troops for war crimes in Ukraine.
This recent attempt to indemnify British soldiers from prosecution in NI, when most of those are aged 70+, clearly has more to do with more recent BA operations.

Patel has dropped out, team Boris Johnson backing Truss seems to have made her give up before she started.

David Davis has declared for Mordaunt. Only her second head banger.

Steve Baker said yesterday that Gove is using Badenoch as a trojan horse, Gove actually supports Sunak and is trying to get her into second place so Badenoch/Gove can drop out and Sunak is installed without a party membership vote. Seems credible. Could be why Baker quit his bid and backed Braverman, he couldn't back Truss, but still wanted someone ERG/Spartan in the running. If Braverman doesn't make it, I guess a lot of her support goes to Truss or Mordaunt.

Truss, for crying out loud: the "Pork Markets" Prime Minister?

_Os_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:38 pm Patel has dropped out, team Boris Johnson backing Truss seems to have made her give up before she started.

David Davis has declared for Mordaunt. Only her second head banger.

Steve Baker said yesterday that Gove is using Badenoch as a trojan horse, Gove actually supports Sunak and is trying to get her into second place so Badenoch/Gove can drop out and Sunak is installed without a party membership vote.

It would be logical if the third stepped up in that situation. Not my problem but the membership would be mightily miffed if Sunak became leader by default.

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:34 am

ia801310 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:26 am

Will be interesting to see if Labour make a big thing if it. I think they got pretty burnt by the Phil Shiner saga.

Politically it doesn't make sense to. Nobody in the UK will give you credit for locking up British soldiers even if they were going around murdering people. And Starmer made it a pledge to end illegal wars and strengthen human rights abroad so I'm sure he'll have no interest as he doesn't much enjoy keeping to his leadership election promises.

A very bad look when you are trying to aid the prosecution of Russian troops for war crimes in Ukraine.
This recent attempt to indemnify British soldiers from prosecution in NI, when most of those are aged 70+, clearly has more to do with more recent BA operations.

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:57 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:51 pm Heathrow airport cancelling more flights and limiting passenger numbers to 100,000 per day. Combination of Brexit and Covid after effects at play.

Oof. Think that's about half capacity.

Global Britain is going well.

That’s what I thought initially, but the number I was looking at was ‘passengers’. Not sure if that’s arrivals and departures total, and think the 100,000 is departures. Not very clear tbh. Pre 2019 was an average of about 230k passengers per day.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:49 pm Truss, for crying out loud: the "Pork Markets" Prime Minister?

CHEEEEESE

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:34 am

Politically it doesn't make sense to. Nobody in the UK will give you credit for locking up British soldiers even if they were going around murdering people. And Starmer made it a pledge to end illegal wars and strengthen human rights abroad so I'm sure he'll have no interest as he doesn't much enjoy keeping to his leadership election promises.

A very bad look when you are trying to aid the prosecution of Russian troops for war crimes in Ukraine.
This recent attempt to indemnify British soldiers from prosecution in NI, when most of those are aged 70+, clearly has more to do with more recent BA operations.

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:06 pm

A very bad look when you are trying to aid the prosecution of Russian troops for war crimes in Ukraine.
This recent attempt to indemnify British soldiers from prosecution in NI, when most of those are aged 70+, clearly has more to do with more recent BA operations.

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Sunak the US citizen, former chancellor of the exchequer who's billionaire wife wasn't paying her taxes? Boris is as bent as they come, but the wallpaper doesn't come close to the financial stuff Sunak seems to have got upto.

Find it a bit hard to believe that Dorries could intimidate anything larger than gerbil but

Away from the Tory leadership race, Parliamentary committee hearing has heard allegation today that Government sought changes to Channel 4's annual report "to make privatisation look more desirable".
C4 chief exec Alex Mahon confirms requests for changes were made but rejected.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:06 pm

A very bad look when you are trying to aid the prosecution of Russian troops for war crimes in Ukraine.
This recent attempt to indemnify British soldiers from prosecution in NI, when most of those are aged 70+, clearly has more to do with more recent BA operations.

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:38 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Sunak the US citizen, former chancellor of the exchequer who's billionaire wife wasn't paying her taxes? Boris is as bent as they come, but the wallpaper doesn't come close to the financial stuff Sunak seems to have got upto.

Not sure about the green card stuff. I don’t know when and why he took it out. On the face of it I can’t get excited about if he took it out a decade or two ago.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

If they have evidence, the Beeb should give it to the Hague, & then the UK can either investigate it themselves, or be shown up as hypocrites.

The thing that is always so fucking infuriating about this shit, is that when it happens, it always, always, always makes things worse for those who follow these units, because just as it was in NI, it's the best possible recruiting for the insurgents, & creates a culture that has to be rooted out of the units involved.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:15 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm
This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

If they have evidence, the Beeb should give it to the Hague, & then the UK can either investigate it themselves, or be shown up as hypocrites.

The thing that is always so fucking infuriating about this shit, is that when it happens, it always, always, always makes things worse for those who follow these units, because just as it was in NI, it's the best possible recruiting for the insurgents, & creates a culture that has to be rooted out of the units involved.

The MOD have come out and said they've no interest in following it up. I doubt the BBC can refer individuals who aren't leaders to the Hague. They'd have to get a high ranking official. Which they won't.

The Australian SAS who were caught up in this aren't going to the Hague but tbf are going through the courts in Australia.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:38 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Sunak the US citizen, former chancellor of the exchequer who's billionaire wife wasn't paying her taxes? Boris is as bent as they come, but the wallpaper doesn't come close to the financial stuff Sunak seems to have got upto.

I don't like some of the tax rules but I don't know Mrs Sunak did anything wrong given how they're written, and the Green card might almost be a bad bit of admin.

And anyway, it's not even a sideshow lined up alongside what will have been considered normal practice at the Hedge Funds he worked at

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:15 pm

The US have been giving presidential pardons to war criminals for some times too. I'm sorry to say anyone who thinks the west has any authority bleating about russian war crimes (as disgusting as they are) has not been been paying attention.

This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

Yeah it sounds shit and not disputing that. Nothing near the extent of awfulness on display from the Russian's and their mercenaries in a far shorter time frame. The fact they are reported internally and investigated and the bbc have done an investigation just wouldn't happen in a country like Russia.

Not every tory mp is as bad as Johnson. You here very little from and about most mp's because they don't make interesting stories. It is always the loons you hear from as they can give you a silly quote for a headline or tweet.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:57 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm
This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

Not every tory mp is as bad as Johnson. You here very little from and about most mp's because they don't make interesting stories. It is always the loons you hear from as they can give you a silly quote for a headline or tweet.

Agreed. You have to make some allowance for human nature - it would be asking a lot of an ambitious MP to refuse to work for Johnson in 2019 when for all they knew he might be PM for the next ten years. I take the point that some have been keener and longer supporters than they should have been.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:57 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm
This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

Yeah it sounds shit and not disputing that. Nothing near the extent of awfulness on display from the Russian's and their mercenaries in a far shorter time frame. The fact they are reported internally and investigated and the bbc have done an investigation just wouldn't happen in a country like Russia.

Not every tory mp is as bad as Johnson. You here very little from and about most mp's because they don't make interesting stories. It is always the loons you hear from as they can give you a silly quote for a headline or tweet.

While I wouldn't go as far as to say they're all as bad as each other, none of the Tory MPs are good and plenty are corrupt, just not quite on the scale or as loudly as some of the cabinet (taking 5 figure sums for sitting on boards which is effectively bung money for companies to get insider knowledge and access). Basically none have voted against regressive legislation the Johnson regime put forward when given the opportunity, they've only become antsy over Johnson when his personal level of scandal and mendacity has started to threaten their personal re-election chances. Had that not begun to happen, they'd have been quite happy with the direction of travel of the Tory party.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:57 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:31 pm
This is a lazy take. This is very much in the category of saying all politicians are corrupt so it doesn't matter to what extent they are corrupt. I might not like sunak, mordant, a.nother or agree with their politics but I know they are considerably less corrupt than Johnson. Scale and extent of the crimes does matter and better to try to aim higher then to not bother.

Yes we committed war crimes, yes we covered them up, yes we've done that in at least two wars now, yes these war crimes were carried out in operations that were a central part of our war strategy for years in which UK/US/Australia SF have all been caught up in shooting innocents based on dodgy intelligence. But I'm afraid to say your war crimes are worse Mr Putin (and I think they are worse due to raping etc). Doesn't quite stack up for me. Why would anyone take that seriously.

And Sunak and every Tory MP is as bad as Johnson. He was there because of them.

Yeah it sounds shit and not disputing that. Nothing near the extent of awfulness on display from the Russian's and their mercenaries in a far shorter time frame. The fact they are reported internally and investigated and the bbc have done an investigation just wouldn't happen in a country like Russia.

Not every tory mp is as bad as Johnson. You here very little from and about most mp's because they don't make interesting stories. It is always the loons you hear from as they can give you a silly quote for a headline or tweet.

The investigation is and was a white wash and there won't be anything like the Bereton report either. The Russians are obviously doing horrendous things that are worse (presumably the families of the afghani guys shot illegally don't agree but we can judge it as such). However, I just don't think with something like war crimes you can commit them and go "well that's worse" to someone else. You either have international law based on consistency, morality etc or you don't have international law you have "we won, you lost, we're punishing you and you can't touch us". Which is why Russia won't see any justice for their war crimes too, unfortunately.

How annoyed can Tory MPs be about corruption if they facilitate people like Johnson though is my point. "Oh well I'm less corrupt than the leader of the organisation I am in, no I won't do anything about that". The Tory leadership contest has just the three with very dodgy tax arrangements. A lot of dodgy donors. It's all a bit suspect how much they really care about it all. So maybe there's not "all the same" but they're all facilitating various corrupt/liars/tax dodgers getting to very very senior positions. Which isn't a good defence.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:04 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:33 pm Dear God, no.......................not ever!!!

My order of preference for PM

1. Patel
2. Badenoch
3. Sunak
4. Zahawi

My order of preference for next Tory PM
1) Adolf Hitler
2) Coco The Clown
3) Nurse Ratched
4) Take your pick from any one of the cat turds that sit atop the Tory litter tray

Isn’t the problem partly/largely the party system? I’m not defending the corrupt ones but if you honestly believe in conservative values and want to do something about it you can only achieve that through the Conservative Party.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:23 pm

sefton wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:16 pm She’s just plain incompetent, anybody voting for her is either an ideologue or on the scrumpy big time.

She needs to read the riot act to the Civil Service Blob and put the ECHR back in its box.

She's fortunate the UK was a far more tolerant place for immigrants when her parents arrived. If it were under her ideal regime, they'd have been packed back off on their banana boat to East Africa.

WRT corruption, think that some honestly don't believe they are doing anything wrong, merely acting as "facilitators" to get things done without the irritation of tendering etc ( as we saw with PPE )and it's all a quid pro quo fringe benefit from their position. Only when it's in danger of being subject to investigation does the penny drop and the revelation of wrong-doing means a scramble to justify it under "necessity due to the circumstances".

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:10 am From the the so-called Uber Files, I see that from the current runners and riders Javid and Patel have been named as taking part in undeclared meetings with Uber when the tech company was lobbying for entry into the London taxi market.

Patel has, of course, you bet our arse, blamed civil servants for not recording the meeting.

Never, ever, take responsibility, it worked for Johnson, up to a point.

Along with David Cameron. Self interest and corruption is ingrained.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:44 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:41 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:36 am BBC not playing the team Britain ball running this story
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62083196

Read that this morning.

Paints a fairly damning picture. Wagons being circled etc, but it's going to be a difficult one for them to brush under the carpet now.

You'd almost rather it was a kill list than just killing random farmers

Yeah. I'd pretty much be going "mehhh" if they were Taliban victims but this reads as My Lai part deux.