NPR

We won't live with Ireland on this form, and France will destroy us.

Was Curry injured or subbed tactically?

The one time Eddie delays his endless subs and they actually could have done with being on earlier.

Really struggling with the Lawes as captain thing.

We picked a back line that we thought would have Tuilagi in and it was powder puff without him.

No shape in attack.

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:07 pm We won't live with Ireland on this form, and France will destroy us.

Was Curry injured or subbed tactically?

I think he contracted HIV of the eyes from watching the outside backs larking about, so was taken off for observation.

Crash669 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:06 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:48 pm That was shit. Eddie out.

This message coming through from 2018.

Tail end of 2017... 2018 was not a surprise at all given how poorly we played for a lot of that year.

Christ, where do you even begin with that performance?

One positive - Freddie Steward seemed to have a pretty decent game didn't he?

Hugo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:58 pm Christ, where do you even begin with that performance?

One positive - Freddie Steward seemed to have a pretty decent game didn't he?

You thank your lucky stars you didn't fork out the cash to watch it in person.

I'd have chewed my own foot off, by HT.

Lobby wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:12 pm In the absence of Tuilagi, Daly has been chosen to come in at 13, with Marchant on the bench.

I know Marchant hasn’t trained with them this week, but Daly was an empty shirt against Scotland.

And today.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:16 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:07 pm We won't live with Ireland on this form, and France will destroy us.

Was Curry injured or subbed tactically?

I think he contracted HIV of the eyes from watching the outside backs larking about, so was taken off for observation.

I hope it's just Good AIDS.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:29 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:58 pm Christ, where do you even begin with that performance?

One positive - Freddie Steward seemed to have a pretty decent game didn't he?

You thank your lucky stars you didn't fork out the cash to watch it in person.

I'd have chewed my own foot off, by HT.

Fishfoodie is the President of The Mid-Galactic Arts Nobbling Council and I claim my Vols 1-12 of Zen and the Art of Going to the Lavatory.

Christ that was ugly. This week I couldn't even discern a game plan.

So, another rest weekend - wonder if Tulaigi will be fit enough to get injured again in training, before kick off

Saints/Exeter - a player just got pinged for going off his feet at the ruck when the ref said the ball was exposed. If it's exposed, it's out - there's no requirement to stay on your feet to get a ball on the floor

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:12 pm Saints/Exeter - a player just got pinged for going off his feet at the ruck when the ref said the ball was exposed. If it's exposed, it's out - there's no requirement to stay on your feet to get a ball on the floor

Ball is not necessarily out of a ruck just because you can see it.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:15 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:12 pm Saints/Exeter - a player just got pinged for going off his feet at the ruck when the ref said the ball was exposed. If it's exposed, it's out - there's no requirement to stay on your feet to get a ball on the floor

Ball is not necessarily out of a ruck just because you can see it.

He said it was exposed, which is the requirement for the ball to be considered out of the ruck. They weren't pinged for not coming through the gate, because the ruck was over.

I guess the ref considered the ruck still active.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:20 pm I guess the ref considered the ruck still active.

But that's the thing, he didn't - he made the ball's out gesture, he yelled it was exposed to say the players going for the ball were fine, then I think he just had a brain fart...

Guess it was for this:
16. Players must not:
d. Fall over the ball as it is coming out of a ruck.

When it’s just come out is a special case.

Maybe I'm imagining it but I thought I saw a law clarification recently that said something about the ball being a meter from a ruck before a player could dive on it.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:50 pm Maybe I'm imagining it but I thought I saw a law clarification recently that said something about the ball being a meter from a ruck before a player could dive on it.

That would make sense

Dumb English Rugby tracker - Exeter’s pack giving up and staring at the ref after being manshamed at the scrum, leaving Saints to stroll in

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:53 pm

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:50 pm Maybe I'm imagining it but I thought I saw a law clarification recently that said something about the ball being a meter from a ruck before a player could dive on it.

That would make sense

https://www.ruck.co.uk/world-rugby-clar ... d-request/

Cheers!

What a finish from Woodburn, assume he’s spent some time fielding at long on…

Nice choke Saints

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:12 pm Nice choke Saints

It's not even a choke any more, it's just Saints being Saints.

Hardly a choke. Cracking game, an excellent antidote to the England match yesterday.

'England have no identity outside of Eddie Jones'

I think Lenihan makes an valid point; but doesn't point out the obvious conclusion. The reason why there's no identify outside of EJ, is that EJ doesn't have any time for anyones opinion, but his own, & if any of the players tries, they get dropped; & the turnover of coaches suggests that they're all expected to be glove puppets too.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:51 pm

'England have no identity outside of Eddie Jones'

I think Lenihan makes an valid point; but doesn't point out the obvious conclusion. The reason why there's no identify outside of EJ, is that EJ doesn't have any time for anyones opinion, but his own, & if any of the players tries, they get dropped; & the turnover of coaches suggests that they're all expected to be glove puppets too.

Because no one knows Maro Itoje, or Tom Curry... (and whilst he's not actually playing in the 6n Owen Farrell!).

And lets be honest, despite only having the shirt briefly, people already know Marcus Smith. Freddie Steward is shooting up there in recognition too.

I'm happy to bash Eddie on seemingly being wedded to his favourites a bit too long, but the idea that Eddie Jones is the only identity in the England team is daft.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:17 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:51 pm

'England have no identity outside of Eddie Jones'

I think Lenihan makes an valid point; but doesn't point out the obvious conclusion. The reason why there's no identify outside of EJ, is that EJ doesn't have any time for anyones opinion, but his own, & if any of the players tries, they get dropped; & the turnover of coaches suggests that they're all expected to be glove puppets too.

Because no one knows Maro Itoje, or Tom Curry... (and whilst he's not actually playing in the 6n Owen Farrell!).

And lets be honest, despite only having the shirt briefly, people already know Marcus Smith. Freddie Steward is shooting up there in recognition too.

I'm happy to bash Eddie on seemingly being wedded to his favourites a bit too long, but the idea that Eddie Jones is the only identity in the England team is daft.

I don't think "people know them" is the same thing as identity. They're saying that it's a team pulled from various club sides that play in different ways and there's no obvious style that England are comfortable with and successful with that's being driven by the players. It's all Eddie-led and the players are currently just followers (and not particularly successful for England at the moment).

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:38 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:17 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:51 pm

'England have no identity outside of Eddie Jones'

I think Lenihan makes an valid point; but doesn't point out the obvious conclusion. The reason why there's no identify outside of EJ, is that EJ doesn't have any time for anyones opinion, but his own, & if any of the players tries, they get dropped; & the turnover of coaches suggests that they're all expected to be glove puppets too.

Because no one knows Maro Itoje, or Tom Curry... (and whilst he's not actually playing in the 6n Owen Farrell!).

And lets be honest, despite only having the shirt briefly, people already know Marcus Smith. Freddie Steward is shooting up there in recognition too.

I'm happy to bash Eddie on seemingly being wedded to his favourites a bit too long, but the idea that Eddie Jones is the only identity in the England team is daft.

I don't think "people know them" is the same thing as identity. They're saying that it's a team pulled from various club sides that play in different ways and there's no obvious style that England are comfortable with and successful with that's being driven by the players. It's all Eddie-led and the players are currently just followers (and not particularly successful for England at the moment).

"They don't have any identity outside of Eddie Jones. You know, you look at Ireland, you see Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, there's people you can identify with."

I don't see Itoje as any less identifiable as POM.

I think Lenihan makes a decent point.

There are Tier1 test teams that draw players from far more disparate places than England do and with far less preparation time and resources than England has but still simply play far better than England do.

Eddie Jones is being found out.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:50 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:38 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:17 pm

Because no one knows Maro Itoje, or Tom Curry... (and whilst he's not actually playing in the 6n Owen Farrell!).

And lets be honest, despite only having the shirt briefly, people already know Marcus Smith. Freddie Steward is shooting up there in recognition too.

I'm happy to bash Eddie on seemingly being wedded to his favourites a bit too long, but the idea that Eddie Jones is the only identity in the England team is daft.

I don't think "people know them" is the same thing as identity. They're saying that it's a team pulled from various club sides that play in different ways and there's no obvious style that England are comfortable with and successful with that's being driven by the players. It's all Eddie-led and the players are currently just followers (and not particularly successful for England at the moment).

"They don't have any identity outside of Eddie Jones. You know, you look at Ireland, you see Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, there's people you can identify with."

I don't see Itoje as any less identifiable as POM.

Also, what head coach or DoR doesn't think they're the one in charge and survive in the job anyway?

Further whilst one could consider the current wider coaching team unknown/unproven at test level (and even then Cockers is reputed to have an identity) Eddie has also recently worked with Scott Wisemantel, Steve Borthwick, John Mitchell. Last 6N we even had an attack that was something of a 7s based thing under the short tenure of Amor, but we've now gone back to more of a league system with Gleeson

There are some weird complaints made about Eddie, odd when there is stuff one could gripe about. But clearly it's not all about Eddie, even if it is for those living down to the notion there are none so blind as those who will not see

People are getting bored with the crap Jones comes out with. You can speak crap if you're producing the goods on the pitch but he's not. His player preparation and conditioning is neanderthal, his selection criteria is not meritocratic and he's clearly not preparing a very good team. This is his seventh year at the England coach, this is all on him and it's a total mess.

It's not a total mess, it's a partial mess. It's a mess I don't think he ever had to get himself into in the first place, certainly not to this extent and that's a problem for him.

But, he's got Genge establishing himself, LCD pretty much established as first choice, Hill sort of establishing himself, Slade never having looked more established, Smith, Randall, Dombrandt, Steward all doing good things (if not only good things) and certainly looking like they've got the shirts for now. Itoje and Curry continue to look the part.

He's not getting the most from Sinckler, we lack 2-3 carrying options across the pack and backline, but we've got Alfie, Manu, Big Joe, Ojomoh, Willis all hopefully to push their case there and that will help if they do (we might even get a return of Mako and Billy playing well), the discipline is still a bit wobbly, and our multiphase is often more than a bit wobbly (and even then we had a series of nice plays come the end of the 1st half against Wales). The scrum, hard to know what to make of that given the random element introduced by the refs. The kicking, well that's not great, but we've got very inexperienced players at 9, 10 and 15 and they do need some time.

So there's plenty to work on, but it's a long, long way from being a complete mess

You're naming players that have literally just come in or in the case of Barbeary, still not in.

He talks about the RWC being the only thing he's interested in (which in itself is a fucking disgrace) but then largely wastes 2020 and 2021 picking the same team who lost RWC2019 only to drop some of them mid-cycle. There are only 13 tests now before the start of RWC23. We still don't have any depth at 9, 3, 5, 6 or 12 just as we didn't have at RWC19. He's just ignored the problem. It's like he's hoping everyone has forgotten he had to fly the dispirited and ignored Ben Spencer (who's just been ignored again) halfway around the world to go straight onto the bench just 3 days before the RWC final. That is selection management incompetence and it's all on Jones. We've also had a pair of fifth place finishes in the 6Ns with another one a distinct possibility this year. The fucking review into last year's debacle didn't even include the performance of Jones in the terms of reference by the anonymous 'experts', and the findings were never published anyway, just some flowery excerpts leaked to the usual press mules.

Repeat, he's had everything bar any discernible line management above him for over six years. This is his creation.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:50 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:38 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:17 pm

Because no one knows Maro Itoje, or Tom Curry... (and whilst he's not actually playing in the 6n Owen Farrell!).

And lets be honest, despite only having the shirt briefly, people already know Marcus Smith. Freddie Steward is shooting up there in recognition too.

I'm happy to bash Eddie on seemingly being wedded to his favourites a bit too long, but the idea that Eddie Jones is the only identity in the England team is daft.

I don't think "people know them" is the same thing as identity. They're saying that it's a team pulled from various club sides that play in different ways and there's no obvious style that England are comfortable with and successful with that's being driven by the players. It's all Eddie-led and the players are currently just followers (and not particularly successful for England at the moment).

"They don't have any identity outside of Eddie Jones. You know, you look at Ireland, you see Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, there's people you can identify with."

I don't see Itoje as any less identifiable as POM.

You have to listen to everything he says, though. He's very much talking about winning mentality and all that jazz

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:35 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:50 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:38 pm

I don't think "people know them" is the same thing as identity. They're saying that it's a team pulled from various club sides that play in different ways and there's no obvious style that England are comfortable with and successful with that's being driven by the players. It's all Eddie-led and the players are currently just followers (and not particularly successful for England at the moment).

"They don't have any identity outside of Eddie Jones. You know, you look at Ireland, you see Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, there's people you can identify with."

I don't see Itoje as any less identifiable as POM.

You have to listen to everything he says, though. He's very much talking about winning mentality and all that jazz

Yeah, it's about having senior players who will call other players, on the pitch, & at half-time, & in training.

I think there are players in the England team that do it in their clubs; but it isn't as obvious when they pull on an England shirt.

I think there remains a strong argument that Eddie running his mouth off and being the one proper "personality" around England does protect the players from a media that otherwise rip them apart. We'll only be able to prove it of course once he's gone.

Don't think there's a lot of point going round the houses on it now. We're in the middle of a 6N we can still win and we'll see where we lie after that. For all that I think we are third choice for the title, our recent record is OK - we beat the World Champions in the Autumn and for all that they weren't thrillers also have beaten Australia, Wales and France in the last few matches. None of these things should be taken for granted and beating us at Twickenham remains a serious challenge.

does protect the players from a media that otherwise rip them apart.

the opposite seems to be happening to Marcus Smith. I think there has been an article just about day for the last 3 weeks in The Times where it's either all about him, or he is heavily referenced - today, on a week off, about his ambition to become the best player in the world. I feel sorry for the guy, it's a lot of pressure being put on young shoulders.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:42 pm

does protect the players from a media that otherwise rip them apart.

the opposite seems to be happening to Marcus Smith. I think there has been an article just about day for the last 3 weeks in The Times where it's either all about him, or he is heavily referenced - today, on a week off, about his ambition to become the best player in the world. I feel sorry for the guy, it's a lot of pressure being put on young shoulders.

seriously the press should shut their mouth.