Scotland vs Wallabies

[OomStruisbaai]

Clash of the weekend.

Will the Scots please post here.

Dont be shy.

[TedMaul]

You can get 2/1 on the Wallabies

[clydecloggie]

Those have been good games the last few years. Before the Autumn Internationals started, I would have expected Scotland to win well, but Australia have been much better than expected.

So I'm expecting a narrow Scotland win instead.

[OomStruisbaai]

Wallabies have been the surprise packet. Long may this continue. Its going to be a test for both teams.

[Slick]

Think this is the real test of where we are heading into the 6N.

I think we need to win, and win well, or the Autumn will be a bit meh. As said above, thought this one would be a canter a few weeks ago but loving the resurgent Wallabies. We need to win these games.

[inactionman]

I expect Scotland to win but I'm pleasantly surprised to be expecting a good, entertaining game

[SaintK]

Think this is the real test of where we are heading into the 6N.

I think we need to win, and win well, or the Autumn will be a bit meh. As said above, thought this one would be a canter a few weeks ago but loving the resurgent Wallabies. We need to win these games.

Scotland by 7

[epwc]

Scotland by 7

Would be great, but not possible based on Oz vs England

[Jock42]

Scotland by 11, giving us all that false hope that this will be S Oatlands 6N GS year.

[dpedin]

I think it will be very tough game for Scotland, Aussie pack has stood up well and they have some decent exciting runners in the backs. Both teams play similar pacy running style of rugby so no doubt it will be a dour low scoring forward dominated slog of a game! Looking forward to it.

[Biffer]

Scotland by 7

Would be great, but not possible based on Oz vs England

We've beaten England four times in a row.

[epwc]

We've beaten England four times in a row.

So has everyone else, I love the way Scotland play and would love to see them win but I think Australia look like theryre clicking for the first time in years…

Hope it’s a good game either way

[Biffer]

We've beaten England four times in a row.

So has everyone else, I love the way Scotland play and would love to see them win but I think Australia look like theryre clicking for the first time in years…

Hope it’s a good game either way

I hope and think it'll be a cracker. Scotland struggle most when teams blast them off the breakdown. That's not Australia so I think we should be capable of beating them. Will be tight but entertaining I reckon.

[GrahamWa]

Teams:

Scotland
15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (54)
14. Darcy Graham – Edinburgh Rugby (41)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (52)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Glasgow Warriors (29) CAPTAIN
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (43)
10. Finn Russell – Bath Rugby (81) VICE-CAPTAIN
9. Ben White – Toulon (23)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (36)
2. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (21)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (69)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (74)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (41)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (53)
7. Rory Darge – Glasgow Warriors (24) VICE-CAPTAIN
8. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (49)

Replacements

16. Dylan Richardson – The Sharks (5)
17. Rory Sutherland – Glasgow Warriors (36)
18. Will Hurd – Leicester Tigers (3)
19. Alex Craig – Scarlets (5)
20. Josh Bayliss – Bath Rugby (9)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (33)
22. Tom Jordan – Glasgow Warriors (3)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (9)

Oz

1.⁠ ⁠Angus Bell (34 Tests) – Hunters Hill Rugby
2.⁠ ⁠Matt Faessler (14 Tests) – USQ Saints
3.⁠ ⁠Allan Alaalatoa (78 Tests) – West Harbour Juniors
4.⁠ ⁠Jeremy Williams (9 Tests) – Wahroonga Tigers
5.⁠ ⁠Will Skelton (31 Tests) – The Hills Sports High School
6.⁠ ⁠Rob Valetini (50 Tests) – Harlequin Junior Rugby Club
7.⁠ ⁠Carlo Tizzano (4 Tests) - University of Western Australia
8.⁠ ⁠Harry Wilson (c) (20 Tests) – Gunnedah Red Devils
9.⁠ ⁠Jake Gordon (27 Tests) – Canterbury Juniors
10.⁠ Noah Lolesio (27 Tests) – Tuggeranong Vikings
11.⁠ Harry Potter* - Moorabbin Rams
12.⁠ ⁠Len Ikitau (37 Tests) – Tuggeranong Vikings
13.⁠ ⁠Joseph-Aukuso Suaalii (2 Tests) – The Kings School
14.⁠ ⁠Andrew Kellaway (37 Tests) – Hunters Hill Rugby
15.⁠ ⁠Tom Wright (35 Tests) – Clovelly Eagles

Substitutes

16.⁠ ⁠Brandon Paenga-Amosa (18 Tests) – Southern Districts
17.⁠ ⁠Isaac Kailea (6 Tests) - Harlequin Junior Rugby Club
18.⁠ ⁠Zane Nonggorr (9 Tests) – Gold Coast Eagles
19.⁠ ⁠Lukhan Salakaia-Loto (39 Tests) - Randwick
20.⁠ ⁠Langi Gleeson (12 Tests) – Harbord Harlequins
21.⁠ ⁠Tate McDermott (39 Tests) – Flinders Rugby Club
22.⁠ ⁠Ben Donaldson (15 Tests) – Clovelly Eagles
23.⁠ ⁠Max Jorgensen (5 Tests) – Balmain Wolves

*denotes uncapped

[GrahamWa]

Blurb from the wobblies

The Melbourne junior will become the 18th Wallabies debutant this year and will link with last weekend’s hat-trick scorer Tom Wright, and right winger Andrew Kellaway in the back three, for the side’s third Test of their Grand Slam Spring Tour.

He’s one of six changes to the starting XV with captain Harry Wilson returning to the number eight jersey, while Carlo Tizzano will start at openside flanker in his first Northern Hemisphere Test, with Rob Valetini moving back to blindside flanker.

Joseph-Aukuso Suaalii returns at outside centre in Edinburgh, with Len Ikitau shifting in one backline position to the number 12 jersey, in place of the suspended Samu Kerevi.

After missing last week, Jake Gordon has been recalled at scrumhalf to partner Noah Lolesio who starts at flyhalf for the fifth consecutive Test, and ninth overall so far this season.

The final change to the starting side sees Jeremy Williams back in the run on second row where he will partner with Will Skelton. Angus Bell, Matt Faessler and Allan Alaalatoa will form the starting front row.

Melbourne’s Isaac Kailea has been named as the substitute loosehead prop, in what will be his first appearance on the Tour, with Brandon Paenga-Amosa and Zane Nonggorr the replacement hooker and tighthead prop respectively.

Lukhan Salakaia-Loto will again bring experience as the lock cover, while Langi Gleeson is the substitute back rower, returning to Murrayfield having made his Test debut at the venue back in 2022.

The energetic Tate McDermott and Ben Donaldson have again been selected as the replacement halves with Max Jorgensen completing the matchday 23.

Wallabies coach Joe Schmidt said: “The week has been complicated, with the freezing conditions ruling out training fields but the group have adapted well to the situation.”

“The core of the Scotland team has been together for a number of years. They’re cohesive and combative and we will need to be at our best on Sunday.”

[Slick]

Our team pretty much as expected. Pleased to see Bayliss get in the 23 after his performance last week - good performances should get rewarded

[OomStruisbaai]

Our team pretty much as expected. Pleased to see Bayliss get in the 23 after his performance last week - good performances should get rewarded

The saddest part of the team is the Aussie captain.

[Slick]

Our team pretty much as expected. Pleased to see Bayliss get in the 23 after his performance last week - good performances should get rewarded

The saddest part of the team is the Aussie captain.

I know, I felt much the same when Gary Teichmann captained your lot, very sad.

[OomStruisbaai]

Our team pretty much as expected. Pleased to see Bayliss get in the 23 after his performance last week - good performances should get rewarded

The saddest part of the team is the Aussie captain.

I know, I felt much the same when Gary Teichmann captained your lot, very sad.

I backed Skinstadt.

Cost us the WC in 1999. Traveled to watch that final between Wallabies and France.

[Biffer]

Our team pretty much as expected. Pleased to see Bayliss get in the 23 after his performance last week - good performances should get rewarded

The saddest part of the team is the Aussie captain.

I know, I felt much the same when Gary Teichmann captained your lot, very sad.

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

[_Os_]

The saddest part of the team is the Aussie captain.

I know, I felt much the same when Gary Teichmann captained your lot, very sad.

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

[Biffer]

I know, I felt much the same when Gary Teichmann captained your lot, very sad.

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

My mum was born in Australia when it was a dominion within the British empire. Doesn’t mean she wasn’t born in Australia.

[OomStruisbaai]

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

My mum was born in Australia when it was a dominion within the British empire. Doesn’t mean she wasn’t born in Australia.

So your mum was a convict?

[_Os_]

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

My mum was born in Australia when it was a dominion within the British empire. Doesn’t mean she wasn’t born in Australia.

Australia was not a literal part of the UK in every way possible even having seats in Westminster elections. Citizens of dominions weren't even entitled to a full British citizenship unless they met ancestor conditions, they were a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC), which was a lesser citizenship status. To reiterate, Walvis had always been part of the Cape Colony and then SA. Namibia became independent from SA in 1990, Walvis was incorporated into Namibia in 1994 (without a referendum in Walvis). This has critical importance for someone born in Walvis before 1994 regarding their citizenship and rights.

When Percy was born Walvis was more part of SA than even the UK overseas territories are part of the UK today (which have closer proximity to the UK than a dominion did, but still have a separate and lower citizenship status). Someone born in Walvis before 1994 has the same citizenship status as any other South African, from an SA perspective there's no difference.

NI would be a closer comparison. Whatever happens in the future regarding a united Ireland it's not going to change the citizenship rights for anyone born now, because they're born in the UK.

[Biffer]

This is more desperate defense than we try to provide for our ancestral players. You really are desperate to justify it aren't you? Twisting around with the old 'ah, but, borders and empires and colonies'.

Percy was born in Namibia.



Oh, and everyone born in NI is entitled to Irish citizenship now. So that's just another, desperate, poorly informed and wrong stretch of evidence to try to say it's different for you guys.

[Slick]

I know, I felt much the same when Gary Teichmann captained your lot, very sad.

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

Fucking hell

[Biffer]

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

Fucking hell

I know, right?

[_Os_]

This is more desperate defense than we try to provide for our ancestral players. You really are desperate to justify it aren't you? Twisting around with the old 'ah, but, borders and empires and colonies'.

Percy was born in Namibia.



Oh, and everyone born in NI is entitled to Irish citizenship now. So that's just another, desperate, poorly informed and wrong stretch of evidence to try to say it's different for you guys.

Percy was born in SA when Walvis was part of SA. Walvis had a different sovereignty status to the rest of what is now Namibia. Namibia didn't even exist when Percy was born, South West Africa did which Walvis wasn't part of because it was fully part of SA. This isn't difficult.

I suspect you just didn't know Walvis had a different status to the rest of what is now Namibia.

Trust me when I say I'm anything but poorly informed about UK nationality law. Anyone born in NI is entitled to full UK citizenship, which makes it far more comparable to Walvis when it was part of SA.

[_Os_]

Yeah it's like their record points scorer not being South African

You're both wrong.

Percy was born in Walvis Bay, which was established by the Dutch East India company around the same time they took control of the Cape. It was part of the Cape Colony under Dutch rule and then British rule, and then became part of South Africa when the Union was formed. It was never part of South West Africa/Namibia. It was always a South African exclave. When SA used a FPTP constituency system it even had a seat in the SA parliament. When Namibia got independence from SA, Walvis remained part of SA, it was only a few years into independence it was incorporated into Namibia, people there could choose South African or Namibian citizenship (unlike the rest of current day Namibia) nearly all chose South African.

Teich's ethnicity is Natal German. They settled the area around Durban and the Natal Midlands about 170 years ago, before Germany existed and before Zim existed. The British wanted people from the British Isles, but SA had already acquired a reputation as being a tough place and no one wanted to go. They ended up with Lutheran peasants from the Kingdom of Hanover. There was a Natal German dialect which isn't used anymore, but some parts of Durban and the Natal Midlands retain an obvious German connection even if everyone speaks English now. The original Zim settlers were people from a Natal farming background who had no land so moved north, they maintained connections with Natal. Teich went to one of the traditional Natal full boarding schools and then did national service for SA, his family have been running businesses and farming in the Durban area for generations. Saying Teich was born in Zim so isn't South African, is a bit like saying someone called Paddy Murphy McGuinness has nothing to do with Ireland.

Fucking hell

All just straight facts.

[_Os_]

Percy's birth certificate no doubt reads "Place of birth: Walvis Bay, Cape Province, Republic of South Africa". He then went to school at SACS in Cape Town, also in the Cape. Then played for Western Province, also in the Cape. Then played for the Stomps, also in the Cape. Never been a Namibian a day in his life, basically as Capetonian as they come.

But this guy is poach? Thanks for the laugh guys.

[Sandstorm]

Scotland vs Australia and you cnuts are arguing about Percy’s birth place?

[Paddington Bear]

[Slick]

It’s a wonder South African streets aren’t awash with blood as everyone’s thin skins rip on an hourly basis. Quite incredible.

Anyway, back to SCOTLAND v AUSTRALIA

[Deepsouth]

Think Scotland may be a bridge to far right now. Especially if it's frigid as forecast.

Scotland by 10......

[Calculon]

Even if they are more "Scotland", than Scotland, I hope the wallabies get thumped

[clydecloggie]

Even if they are more "Scotland", than Scotland, I hope the wallabies get thumped

"Scotland" is more Scotland than "Ireland" is Ireland these days, and since the paragons of World Rugby, New Zealand, are a baw hair away from capping an actual fucking Dutchman on residency - boo fucking hoo.

[Slick]

Getting more and more nervous about this. Good point made in the telly that Oz have built up a real momentum and we have been very stop start over this series

[charltom]

Even if they are more "Scotland", than Scotland, I hope the wallabies get thumped

"Scotland" is more Scotland than "Ireland" is Ireland these days, and since the paragons of World Rugby, New Zealand, are a baw hair away from capping an actual fucking Dutchman on residency - boo fucking hoo.

Interesting - I had interpreted that as him saying Aus were playing in the Scottish style more than Scotland!

[Blackmac]

Think Scotland may be a bridge to far right now. Especially if it's frigid as forecast.

Scotland by 10......

The weather is beautiful. Scotland by 10.

[Slick]

Boys look up for it today