Tri Nations Test Argentina v NZ ‘Nero Fiddles’ thread.

[Guy Smiley]

Where: Newcastle, New South Wales - Australia







Venue: McDonald Jones Stadium - Altitude: 33m - Capacity: 26,126





Who:



TBA

Head Coach: Mario Ledesma







TBA

Head Coach: Ian Foster



When:

Kick-off

Saturday 28 November 2020, 21:45 (Auckland - New Zealand)
Saturday 28 November 2020, 19:45 (Sydney - Australia)
Saturday 28 November 2020, 08:45 (GMT)
Saturday 28 November 2020, 05:45 (Buenos Aires - Argentina)

History:



Played: 30

New Zealand: 28
Argentina: 1
Draw: 1

Last matches:

14 Nov 2020 -- Tri Nations -- New Zealand 15 - 25 Argentina
20 Jul 2019 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 16 - 20 New Zealand
29 Sep 2018 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 17 - 35 New Zealand
8 Sep 2018 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 46 - 24 Argentina
30 Sep 2017 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 10 - 36 New Zealand
9 Sep 2017 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 39 - 22 Argentina
1 Oct 2016 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 17 - 36 New Zealand
10 Sep 2016 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 57 - 22 Argentina
20 Sep 2015 -- Rugby World Cup -- New Zealand 26 - 16 Argentina
17 Jul 2015 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 39 - 18 Argentina
27 Sep 2014 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 13 - 34 New Zealand
6 Sep 2014 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 28 - 9 Argentina
28 Sep 2013 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 15 - 33 New Zealand
7 Sep 2013 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 28 - 13 Argentina
29 Sep 2012 -- The Rugby Championship -- Argentina 15 - 54 New Zealand
8 Sep 2012 -- The Rugby Championship -- New Zealand 21 - 5 Argentina
9 Oct 2011 -- Rugby World Cup -- New Zealand 33 - 10 Argentina

Match Officials:

Referee - Nic Berry (Aus)



Assistant Referee 1 - Angus Gardner (Aus)
Assistant Referee 2 - Ben O’Keeffe (NZ)

TMO - Paul Williams (NZ)

Weather Forecast:




Lifted directly from Carfer’s OP on PR. Because I’m on a phone, because apathy, because fucking Fozzie.

And the Barretts.

[Gumboot]

Onya, Guy.

[Ymx]

Great stuff

[Ymx]

My team for Saturday:

15 B Barrett
14 Jordan
13 R Ioane
12 ALB
11 Clarke
10 Mo'unga
9 Smith

8 Sotutu
7 Savea
6 Cane (c)
5 Vaa'i
4 Whitelock
3 Laulala
2 Coles
1 Moody

16 Aumua, 17 Hodgman, 18 Lomax, 19 S Barrett, 20 Frizell, 21 Perenara, 22 Laumape 23 J Barrett

I was looking at that and nodding until I saw #13.

I had to do a double take, but I was seeing right.

[Gumboot]

Yeah I know, it ain't happening. But I've been underwhelmed with Goodhue recently - he tends to go missing at times.

[Guy Smiley]

One of my sanity preservers is rugby chat with a good mate at work. We’ve known each other for about ten years, working on the same sites at times, lagering up in Thailand together, camping in the Bay of Plenty and all the stuff that makes a decent friendship, especially the rugby chat.

We agreed this week that we’d like to see...

Ardie start at 7
Akira get a go at 8 for long enough to decide yay or nay
Boshier in the mix
A 6 prepared to hammer like a hammering thing for every minute he’s on the field. Name your candidate.
No more Rieko. He’s a dickhead. Drops the ball scoring one week, dives one handed the next. Acts like a twat.
Goodhue at 13. ALB at 12.
Jordan starting.
If we have to have a Barrett then it’s BB at 15 or on the bench. No more catering to the fuckarsery that sees Jordie squeezed in for the sake of three brothers and Scott’s been a game costing dickhead.
The right five need to be taken out the back and given a quiet chat. They’re soft and dumb. That said, Whitelock for captain.
I like Cane and didn’t have a problem with him at all until his petulant outburst in the media about fans. You just cooked your captaincy there, son.

A half back who passes the ball straight to the playmaker quickly. Fuck this conducting an imaginary orchestra from the back of the ruck waiting for the ref to applaud your air baton technique... get it out there NOW and NO MORE AIMLESS BOX FUCKING KICKING giving possession away. Fuck.


I’ll watch this over pints with Snaps in Adelaide. That should make me happy. Something has to.

[Guy Smiley]

Oh, I forgot...

Dane Coles can fuck off as well. No dickheads.

[Grandpa]

Oh, I forgot...

Dane Coles can fuck off as well. No dickheads.

What worries me is that the team's leaders don't inspire... Sam Cane reminds me of someone who has just woken up from a long sleep... and Sam Whitelock has yet to wake up... Coles is just dumb and angry. Aaron Smith is too excitable... and TJ talks clever but plays like someone with special needs... where are the brains of the squad? They need a Sean Fitzpatrick...

[stemoc]

team to be named in 5 minutes

[Kiwias]

I would prefer Cane at 6, Savea at 7, and Ioane at 8, tbh. And JB should just fuck off totally.

[mrbrownstone]

All Blacks:

1. Joe Moody (49)
2. Dane Coles (73)
3. Nepo Laulala (28)
4. Scott Barrett (39)
5. Samuel Whitelock (121)
6. Akira Ioane (1)
7. Sam Cane (73) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (48)
9. Aaron Smith (96)
10. Richie Mo'unga (21)
11. Caleb Clarke (4)
12. Jack Goodhue (17)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (48)
14. Jordie Barrett (22)
15. Beauden Barrett (88)

16. Codie Taylor (56)
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe (16)
18. Tyrel Lomax (5)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (34)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (4)
21. TJ Perenara (68)
22. Rieko Ioane (33)
23. Will Jordan (1)

[stemoc]

[mrbrownstone]

Akira starting probably the only surprise. He probably deserves another shot after Brisbane, but I don't like the balance of that back row. Not many great lineout options. Think we need to find a spot for either Grace or Sotutu to provide a genuine lineout option. Nice to see Laulala starting. S Barrett and Coles need to pull their heads in and focus on the rugby, not the niggle.

Clearly Jordie is our right wing come hell or high water, and Goodhue and ALB are going to continue being the wrong way around.

Pleased to see Will Jordan on the bench. Reiko still shouldn't be midfield cover. He's not a test centre's asshole.

[Ted.]

One of my sanity preservers is rugby chat with a good mate at work. We’ve known each other for about ten years, working on the same sites at times, lagering up in Thailand together, camping in the Bay of Plenty and all the stuff that makes a decent friendship, especially the rugby chat.

We agreed this week that we’d like to see...

Ardie start at 7
Akira get a go at 8 for long enough to decide yay or nay
Boshier in the mix
A 6 prepared to hammer like a hammering thing for every minute he’s on the field. Name your candidate.
No more Rieko. He’s a dickhead. Drops the ball scoring one week, dives one handed the next. Acts like a twat.
Goodhue at 13. ALB at 12.
Jordan starting.
If we have to have a Barrett then it’s BB at 15 or on the bench. No more catering to the fuckarsery that sees Jordie squeezed in for the sake of three brothers and Scott’s been a game costing dickhead.
The right five need to be taken out the back and given a quiet chat. They’re soft and dumb. That said, Whitelock for captain.
I like Cane and didn’t have a problem with him at all until his petulant outburst in the media about fans. You just cooked your captaincy there, son.

A half back who passes the ball straight to the playmaker quickly. Fuck this conducting an imaginary orchestra from the back of the ruck waiting for the ref to applaud your air baton technique... get it out there NOW and NO MORE AIMLESS BOX FUCKING KICKING giving possession away. Fuck.


I’ll watch this over pints with Snaps in Adelaide. That should make me happy. Something has to.

If he'd been given a run there previously, Sam Cane meets that criteria. Otherwise, Cullen Grace or Dalton Papalii.

Has Hoskins Sotutu played much at 6? Not sure he's that sort of player anyway, just falling into the trap of not wishing to leave anyone half decent out.

[Ted.]

.

[Ted.]

More of the same.

Ardie at 8 is especially disappointing. Fucking muppets.

[Ted.]

Akira starting probably the only surprise. He probably deserves another shot after Brisbane, but I don't like the balance of that back row. Not many great lineout options. Think we need to find a spot for either Grace or Sotutu to provide a genuine lineout option. Nice to see Laulala starting. S Barrett and Coles need to pull their heads in and focus on the rugby, not the niggle.

Clearly Jordie is our right wing come hell or high water, and Goodhue and ALB are going to continue being the wrong way around.

Pleased to see Will Jordan on the bench. Reiko still shouldn't be midfield cover. He's not a test centre's asshole.

100%

[stemoc]

ahh Jordie, another round of Argentinian left winger kick chasing and scoring..

[Kiwias]

More of the same.

Ardie at 8 is especially disappointing. Fucking muppets.

Add JB at 14, and ALB/Goodhue the wrong way round to the list of disappointing selections.

[Gumboot]

More of the same.

Ardie at 8 is especially disappointing. Fucking muppets.

Yep, not at all confident in this side. Balance looks off.

Has Frizell been made the escape goat for our ineffective forward play?

[mrbrownstone]

More of the same.

Ardie at 8 is especially disappointing. Fucking muppets.

Yep, not at all confident in this side. Balance looks off.

Has Frizell been made the escape goat for our ineffective forward play?

Maybe the selectors watched this?



Whole video is good value (as usual), but 7:05-7:40 is the relevant passage for some truly brainless, lazy play from Frizell. Deserves to be dropped on that alone.

[Guy Smiley]

More of the same.

Ardie at 8 is especially disappointing. Fucking muppets.

Yep, not at all confident in this side. Balance looks off.

Has Frizell been made the escape goat for our ineffective forward play?

Cullen Grace was the name I couldn’t remember before. Frizzell has moments, not games for my money...

But Akira at 6?

It is just more of the same. Why should we expect anything else from Fozzie?

[Gumboot]

More of the same.

Ardie at 8 is especially disappointing. Fucking muppets.

Yep, not at all confident in this side. Balance looks off.

Has Frizell been made the escape goat for our ineffective forward play?

Maybe the selectors watched this?



Whole video is good value (as usual), but 7:05-7:40 is the relevant passage for some truly brainless, lazy play from Frizell. Deserves to be dropped on that alone.

Yeah, that was poor. Some of the others, Tuipulotu in particular, also share the blame though. It all starts in the tight five.

[Wild Beef]

Way too much woe on this thread. This team is easily good enough to beat the argies. It’s also fairly consistent with what appears to be our no.1 team which most fans have been screaming for.

[mrbrownstone]

Way too much woe on this thread. This team is easily good enough to beat the argies. It’s also fairly consistent with what appears to be our no.1 team which most fans have been screaming for.

Most fans have also been fairly consistent in their criticisms of that #1 team - namely an unbalanced loose trio, midfield the wrong way around, Jordie's not a winger, and Reiko's not a test midfielder.

I'll give Foster credit for sticking to his guns in what he clearly believes is his number #1 team, but I think it's entirely reasonable to criticise those selections after what it served up last time.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Jesus that video is damning of Frizell alright. Both he and Tuipulotu have been underwhelming for my money and I think it's right to punt both of them for Ioane and Barrett respectively. My concern is that both Ioane and Barrett strike me as card magnets in a side that certainly isn't lacking any.

Clearly this side isn't perfect, but it's still a good enough side to get past Argentina. There are still a few guys out of position but it has undeniable quality.

[Enzedder]

Proof that this whole series is just an experiment

[stemoc]

Proof that this whole series is just an experiment

and it may cost them dearly especially since the AB's are currently looking for a new sponsor.. after losing to argentina, they claimed another sour note in history, of being ranked 3rd, they have never been ranked below 2nd since rankings began in 2003..

[Kiwias]

Way too much woe on this thread. This team is easily good enough to beat the argies. It’s also fairly consistent with what appears to be our no.1 team which most fans have been screaming for.

Of course it is good enough to beat Argentina, assuming they all play a lot harder than the last game. But the main problem is that we still have very little idea of what sort of team Foster is trying to build looking forward to RWC2023.

[Guy Smiley]

Way too much woe on this thread. This team is easily good enough to beat the argies. It’s also fairly consistent with what appears to be our no.1 team which most fans have been screaming for.

Of course it is good enough to beat Argentina, assuming they all play a lot harder than the last game. But the main problem is that we still have very little idea of what sort of team Foster is trying to build looking forward to RWC2023.

It’s good enough on paper.

That’s the problem though, and accusing us of too much woe leaves the door open for a counter accusation... being an apologist for mediocrity.

The woe stems not from immediate past results but a growing discontent based on several years of deterioration in the quality of play and infield attitude from our national team. We’ve watched headless chicken style play become the norm. There’s an apparent reliance on luck, wait for the opposition to make a mistake and capitalise on the opportunity. Once opposition teams work out how to cut their mistakes we’re fucked. We don’t have answers to genuine physical pressure.

Our tight 5 is soft and lazy. We get out scrummed. Our line out is a shambles. We play guys away from their best positions, shoehorning players into the team for whatever reasons including more of that apparent hope they’ll play well, then we don’t use their attributes anyway.

It’s a fucking mess. It has been for ages.

[Gumboot]

I fear the stars are once again aligning for Argentina. They'll bring huge confidence and emotion into this test - unbeaten so far, and I suspect Maradona's death will be additional motivation...

On the other hand, the All Blacks are a rabble. We keep hearing from those in charge that pre-test preparation weeks have been "clinical" and that they sense a real "hunger" and "urgency" and "edge", only for them to not turn up on the day. It's almost as if these guys think they know a lot about rugby...but they really don't.

[Guy Smiley]

I fear the stars are once again aligning for Argentina. They'll bring huge confidence and emotion into this test - unbeaten so far, and I suspect Maradona's death will be additional motivation...

On the other hand, the All Blacks are a rabble. We keep hearing from those in charge that pre-test preparation weeks have been "clinical" and that they sense a real "hunger" and "urgency" and "edge", only for them to not turn up on the day. It's almost as if these guys think they know a lot about rugby...but they really don't.

All of this

[mrbrownstone]

“World Rugby has come out, apparently, in the last week and said if the retaliation is at a level above what the initial prodding is, then the retaliator is going to get penalised,’’ Foster said.

“From them, that is reasonably clear. The problem with that strategy is that it just keeps encouraging people for little wee cheap shots and trying to provoke you.’’

Interesting to see what impact this has. Discipline becomes even more important.

[Certain Navigator]

All Blacks:

1. Joe Moody (49)
2. Dane Coles (73)
3. Nepo Laulala (28)
4. Scott Barrett (39)
5. Samuel Whitelock (121)
6. Akira Ioane (1)
7. Sam Cane (73) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (48)
9. Aaron Smith (96)
10. Richie Mo'unga (21)
11. Caleb Clarke (4)
12. Jack Goodhue (17)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (48)
14. Jordie Barrett (22)
15. Beauden Barrett (88)

16. Codie Taylor (56)
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe (16)
18. Tyrel Lomax (5)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (34)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (4)
21. TJ Perenara (68)
22. Rieko Ioane (33)
23. Will Jordan (1)

Two quick observations/questions.
1. This fixation with playing an oversized winger and an undersized #8 remains a mystery.
2. How likely is it that Ioane will be provoked into a red card offense in the first 20 minutes?

[Kiwias]

“World Rugby has come out, apparently, in the last week and said if the retaliation is at a level above what the initial prodding is, then the retaliator is going to get penalised,’’ Foster said.

“From them, that is reasonably clear. The problem with that strategy is that it just keeps encouraging people for little wee cheap shots and trying to provoke you.’’

Interesting to see what impact this has. Discipline becomes even more important.

Provocation has been part of the game for as long as I can remember but the top teams and players do not react. This must come from the captain. Looking back over the best AB captains, none of them got involved in petty shit.

[Gumboot]

Akira might get a few ironic head rubs from the Pumas to warm things up a bit.

[Guy Smiley]

“World Rugby has come out, apparently, in the last week and said if the retaliation is at a level above what the initial prodding is, then the retaliator is going to get penalised,’’ Foster said.

“From them, that is reasonably clear. The problem with that strategy is that it just keeps encouraging people for little wee cheap shots and trying to provoke you.’’

Interesting to see what impact this has. Discipline becomes even more important.

The best response is on the scoreboard. All it takes is focus, commitment and maturity...

We’re good, right?

[OomStruisbaai]

Thanks for opening a real thread.

Good luck to both teams.

All Blacks by 50.

[mrbrownstone]

Jordie in the last 2 tests: 13 runs for 17 metres (3 runs for 2 metres in the last test). How many chances will he get?

[Wignu]

Jordie in the last 2 tests: 13 runs for 17 metres (3 runs for 2 metres in the last test). How many chances will he get?

Too many, he's not a winger and shouldn't be used there.