The Official English Rugby Thread

[SaintK]

I've just watched the Biggar hit on Umaga, that's a clear yellow card. Possibly a RC but I suspect the citing officer will say it won't be cited as he thinks it doesn't quite meet the criteria he invents for the day but it would have just merited a YC had it been dealt with during the match.

I met Hughes exactly 10 years ago at a social function as his other half knows my other half and I chatted with him for quite a while. TMOs hadn't been introduced then but he was being trained up for their introduction. To be quite honest, he already seemed quite old to me back then so I'm quite surprised he's still being paid to do it a decade later.

Saw it on the Prem catch up highlights and it's as clear as!! Biggar could be seeing at least 3 weeks for a completely unnecessary hit in a ruck Saints had already lost!

[Raggs]

I've just watched the Biggar hit on Umaga, that's a clear yellow card. Possibly a RC but I suspect the citing officer will say it won't be cited as he thinks it doesn't quite meet the criteria he invents for the day but it would have just merited a YC had it been dealt with during the match.

I met Hughes exactly 10 years ago at a social function as his other half knows my other half and I chatted with him for quite a while. TMOs hadn't been introduced then but he was being trained up for their introduction. To be quite honest, he already seemed quite old to me back then so I'm quite surprised he's still being paid to do it a decade later.

Saw it on the Prem catch up highlights and it's as clear as!! Biggar could be seeing at least 3 weeks for a completely unnecessary hit in a ruck Saints had already lost!

It's seeming more and more that Hughes has something against Wasps. The Thorley red card from Carley, had Hughes repeatedly saying there was nothing in it, if Carley hadn't seen it on the screen it would have been let go. He just seemingly didn't bother to watch the most blatant deliberate gouge on Bassett in the Glaws game, despite convenient stoppages and the player complaining about eye contact. And now this. Think there's been one or two other instances too. Blackett has clearly had enough too, since he's now said that Hughes didn't do a good enough job, tends to take a lot for a DOR to publicly bad mouth an official like that.

[Brazil]

Well if it's just a Wasps thing he can be forgiven.

I used to hang around with Graham's daughter back in Sandbach, and he used to coach us on the rule changes at the start of every season. He was always a good ref but will be coming up to retirement now. I can't help but wonder whether the refusal to respond to prompts from Healey and Dayglo was deliberate, Healey in particular is turning into a right twat on commentary, effectively coaching the officials on stuff he's seen, and he needs to wind his neck in. I'd much rather incidents were either picked up on the field or left to the citing commissioners than called back ten phases later because the producers have told that wool prick that they've spotted something.

[JM2K6]

That final seatbelt tackle decision was bonkers.

[Raggs]

Glaws Bath is off due to covid infection in glaws apparently.

[I like neeps]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

[ASMO]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

He has nice hair

[SaintK]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

Just posted in the Scottish theread. Auterac is a serial club hopper, bit of a sick note and not test match quality. Very surprising selection ans amazed there a no better loose heads available
Bayliss on the other hand is an excellent selection in the back row.
Wouls have loved to see Ashman in the England squad but hee'll probably be capped sooner in the Scotland set up.

[Raggs]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

Just posted in the Scottish theread. Auterac is a serial club hopper, bit of a sick note and not test match quality. Very surprising selection ans amazed there a no better loose heads available
Bayliss on the other hand is an excellent selection in the back row.
Wouls have loved to see Ashman in the England squad but hee'll probably be capped sooner in the Scotland set up.

Yeah, Auterac is a surprising call by both sides. Surprised Scotland want him, and surprised Auterac is willing to sacrifice his EQP standing.

[sockwithaticket]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

Auterac looked amazing for a short spell but he's never been at quite that level again and has suffered a fair number of injuries over the intervening years. Very few appearances in recent times, seems to very much be a squad depth player now.

Good to know about Rodd, although I'm not surprised. I've had the feeling he identifies more with England than Ashman does. Interesting that Ashman's been called up by anyone at all, though, he seems to be 3rd choice at Sale.

Chapman probably doesn't have an international future with England. From what I've seen of him with Glaws he's not at the same level as his equivalent aged peers like Randall or Mitchell, while there are young guys coming up behind like van Poortvliet and Quirke who look stand out already. I'd be incredibly surprised if Chapman were even in the England A squad.

As you've mentioned him, was there an expectation he might be called up for the senior Scotland team?

[sockwithaticket]

That final seatbelt tackle decision was bonkers.

I didn't really understand the line of argument against it being a penalty. They kept talking about there being no head or neck contact, which I hadn't thought was necessary to blow up a seat belt. It's quite simply, one of the tackling arms comes in over shoulder height, right?

Biggar smashing Umaga not being looked at, missing the knock on for the winning try and that tackle being missed left a fairly bitter taste at the end of an otherwise tense, well fought game between two fairly well matched teams.

Hadn't realised until Raggs posted that Hughes has been responsible for other notable TMO misses involving Wasps.

[I like neeps]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

Auterac looked amazing for a short spell but he's never been at quite that level again and has suffered a fair number of injuries over the intervening years. Very few appearances in recent times, seems to very much be a squad depth player now.

Good to know about Rodd, although I'm not surprised. I've had the feeling he identifies more with England than Ashman does. Interesting that Ashman's been called up by anyone at all, though, he seems to be 3rd choice at Sale.

Chapman probably doesn't have an international future with England. From what I've seen of him with Glaws he's not at the same level as his equivalent aged peers like Randall or Mitchell, while there are young guys coming up behind like van Poortvliet and Quirke who look stand out already. I'd be incredibly surprised if Chapman were even in the England A squad.

As you've mentioned him, was there an expectation he might be called up for the senior Scotland team?

There's an expectation anyone who has played for the Scotland under20s and has maybe over 5 appearances in England professional rugby might get called up by Scotland

Also it was reported by a journalist that Chapman was interesting Scotland, England and Italy. I guess you're right England have a lot of good young 9s but you never know as Vellacott got in your squad too when we wanted him.

Also on Ashman I'd have been surprised if England had picked him because he's third choice at Sale. However, we have no young hookers. Our youngster is 28 and turning 29 this year. Ashman was the best player I've seen for our under20s side too. So happy that we'll cap him. Always space at Edinburgh or Glasgow if he needs gametime.

[sockwithaticket]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

Auterac looked amazing for a short spell but he's never been at quite that level again and has suffered a fair number of injuries over the intervening years. Very few appearances in recent times, seems to very much be a squad depth player now.

Good to know about Rodd, although I'm not surprised. I've had the feeling he identifies more with England than Ashman does. Interesting that Ashman's been called up by anyone at all, though, he seems to be 3rd choice at Sale.

Chapman probably doesn't have an international future with England. From what I've seen of him with Glaws he's not at the same level as his equivalent aged peers like Randall or Mitchell, while there are young guys coming up behind like van Poortvliet and Quirke who look stand out already. I'd be incredibly surprised if Chapman were even in the England A squad.

As you've mentioned him, was there an expectation he might be called up for the senior Scotland team?

There's an expectation anyone who has played for the Scotland under20s and has maybe over 5 appearances in England professional rugby might get called up by Scotland

Also it was reported by a journalist that Chapman was interesting Scotland, England and Italy. I guess you're right England have a lot of good young 9s but you never know as Vellacott got in your squad too when we wanted him.

Also on Ashman I'd have been surprised if England had picked him because he's third choice at Sale. However, we have no young hookers. Our youngster is 28 and turning 29 this year. Ashman was the best player I've seen for our under20s side too. So happy that we'll cap him. Always space at Edinburgh or Glasgow if he needs gametime.

Fair enough.

In fairness to Vellacott, he was playing really well at the time of his call up and our cupboard was a little barer at the time (just Robson and Spencer whom Eddie has tried his hardest not to pick for reasons only he'll know...); a lot of the guys I mentioned have come through since then. I hope he goes well on the other side of Hadrian's Wall, for whatever reason he just didn't really get going at Wasps even after the horrific injury that took most of a season from him.

We're not far off you with the hooker situation. behind George and LCD the cupboard looks a bit bare, plenty of EQPs in that position, but not many who look international quality. If we hadn't just had such a poor 6 Nations, Eddie might've tried to tempt him over, however, I think Eddie's on a shorter leash at the moment so he can't go plucking too many players from obscurity going 'Aw m8, he's a test match animal, I can tell'.

[Raggs]

I think we might not have much really proven talent at hooker, but we've got a fair few promising guys that may well step up.

[Hal Jordan]

George is 31 this year, LCD turns 28 this month, assuming 33 is about the time they give out, they have a few years left at Test level barring injury, and certainly enough to bring through a couple of replacements, who will present themselves in due course. Add in Tom Dunn, 29 this year, as a decent third banana and we look OK.

[Kawazaki]

George is 31 this year, LCD turns 28 this month, assuming 33 is about the time they give out, they have a few years left at Test level barring injury, and certainly enough to bring through a couple of replacements, who will present themselves in due course. Add in Tom Dunn, 29 this year, as a decent third banana and we look OK.

Dunn isn't test quality. Not even close imho. Ben Curry should convert to hooker, mad Eddie might pick him then.

[SaintK]

George is 31 this year, LCD turns 28 this month, assuming 33 is about the time they give out, they have a few years left at Test level barring injury, and certainly enough to bring through a couple of replacements, who will present themselves in due course. Add in Tom Dunn, 29 this year, as a decent third banana and we look OK.

Dunn isn't test quality. Not even close imho. Ben Curry should convert to hooker, mad Eddie might pick him then.

Bit harsh on Dunn! Jones has given him very few minutes on the pitch to prove himself at international level. He's certainly a fine player for Bath.
Possibly a little too late to convert Ben Curry? He's been out injured for 5 months otherwise I reckon he'd have been in the wider England squad as a backrow by now. He and his brother were magnificent against Bristol last week.
Capon at Bristol and Langdon at Sale have looked promising this season and we have yet to see Barbeary playing senior rugby in his usual position at 2.

[sockwithaticket]

George is 31 this year, LCD turns 28 this month, assuming 33 is about the time they give out, they have a few years left at Test level barring injury, and certainly enough to bring through a couple of replacements, who will present themselves in due course. Add in Tom Dunn, 29 this year, as a decent third banana and we look OK.

We're one injury away from only having one top class hooker available, 2 away from having to start someone with functionally zero international experience or actual zero and with a serious quality deficit vs. who they'd be replacing. We're not ok.

Nothing I've seen from Dunn suggests he's anything other than above average - an honest grater who will give his all, but just lacks anything particularly special. 2 red cards this season for the same offence also give pause over his capacity to consistently tackle safely and to learn a lesson about what not to do. As a team with a penalty problem, we really don't need to increase our risk of sendings off either. His being sufficient to occupy the 3rd choice slot for England says a lot about where our current hooker stocks are at.


@SaintK, I think the comment about converting B. Curry was being somewhat facetious...

[SaintK]

George is 31 this year, LCD turns 28 this month, assuming 33 is about the time they give out, they have a few years left at Test level barring injury, and certainly enough to bring through a couple of replacements, who will present themselves in due course. Add in Tom Dunn, 29 this year, as a decent third banana and we look OK.

We're one injury away from only having one top class hooker available, 2 away from having to start someone with functionally zero international experience or actual zero and with a serious quality deficit vs. who they'd be replacing. We're not ok.

Nothing I've seen from Dunn suggests he's anything other than above average - an honest grater who will give his all, but just lacks anything particularly special. 2 red cards this season for the same offence also give pause over his capacity to consistently tackle safely and to learn a lesson about what not to do. As a team with a penalty problem, we really don't need to increase our risk of sendings off either. His being sufficient to occupy the 3rd choice slot for England says a lot about where our current hooker stocks are at.


@SaintK, I think the comment about converting B. Curry was being somewhat facetious...

....can never tell with Toga
Also bearing in mind that Thompson converted from the backrow as did McAnally and Brown for Scotland did more recently!

[duke]

There are worse ideas if Ben Curry wants to boost his international opportunities.

[JM2K6]

There are worse ideas if Ben Curry wants to boost his international opportunities.

Probably. But not many worse.

[sockwithaticket]

@SaintK, I think the comment about converting B. Curry was being somewhat facetious...

....can never tell with Toga
Also bearing in mind that Thompson converted from the backrow as did McAnally and Brown for Scotland did more recently!

Fair!

It's easy to forget how young the Currys are, time is still on Ben's side for a positional conversion. That said he's already an international class flanker at around the level of his brother (according to his coaches), converting shouldn't be necessary for him and there's no guarantee he'd be as good in a new position. Also looks to have the wrong body shape for hooker, in my mind most hookers, particularly top ones, are a bit more compact with a lower centre of gravity.

[JM2K6]

No seriously please stop talking about Ben Curry converting to hooker, it's a joke you guys are taking way too far and it's an insane idea

[inactionman]

Bath have finally found a way to 'win' a match.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... -of-season

Might just help us squeak into the top 8 for champion's Cup next season, which might be mixed blessing given recent form.

[fishfoodie]

No seriously please stop talking about Ben Curry converting to hooker, it's a joke you guys are taking way too far and it's an insane idea

Exactly !

If he's going to convert; he should follow the established route from the backrow to scrum half !

[Raggs]

Odogwu with an ACL tear.

FFS.

[Margin__Walker]

Odogwu out with an ACL tear. Not going to be seeing him in white any time this summer.

Edit - too slow (me, not Odogwu)

[Kawazaki]

Bath have finally found a way to 'win' a match.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... -of-season

Might just help us squeak into the top 8 for champion's Cup next season, which might be mixed blessing given recent form.

Probably caught it from the university lot at Hartpury. Very different outcome to that cancelled game though.

#stitchup

[Punter15]

That final seatbelt tackle decision was bonkers.

I didn't really understand the line of argument against it being a penalty. They kept talking about there being no head or neck contact, which I hadn't thought was necessary to blow up a seat belt. It's quite simply, one of the tackling arms comes in over shoulder height, right?

Biggar smashing Umaga not being looked at, missing the knock on for the winning try and that tackle being missed left a fairly bitter taste at the end of an otherwise tense, well fought game between two fairly well matched teams.

Hadn't realised until Raggs posted that Hughes has been responsible for other notable TMO misses involving Wasps.

Hughes is at best incompetent, at worst bent, but judging from Twitter he’s just a self important, bitter arsehole who decides what HE does and doesn’t like, and what HE wants the outcome to be.

[Kawazaki]

That final seatbelt tackle decision was bonkers.

I didn't really understand the line of argument against it being a penalty. They kept talking about there being no head or neck contact, which I hadn't thought was necessary to blow up a seat belt. It's quite simply, one of the tackling arms comes in over shoulder height, right?

Biggar smashing Umaga not being looked at, missing the knock on for the winning try and that tackle being missed left a fairly bitter taste at the end of an otherwise tense, well fought game between two fairly well matched teams.

Hadn't realised until Raggs posted that Hughes has been responsible for other notable TMO misses involving Wasps.

Hughes is at best incompetent, at worst bent, but judging from Twitter he’s just a self important, bitter arsehole who decides what HE does and doesn’t like, and what HE wants the outcome to be.

What's happened on Twitter?!

[Punter15]

May have oversold it, but @gphus is just him whining and ranting every time he doesn’t get his own way and expecting service and sympathy.

[Hells Bells]

George is 31 this year, LCD turns 28 this month, assuming 33 is about the time they give out, they have a few years left at Test level barring injury, and certainly enough to bring through a couple of replacements, who will present themselves in due course. Add in Tom Dunn, 29 this year, as a decent third banana and we look OK.

Dunn isn't test quality. Not even close imho. Ben Curry should convert to hooker, mad Eddie might pick him then.

Bit harsh on Dunn! Jones has given him very few minutes on the pitch to prove himself at international level. He's certainly a fine player for Bath.
Possibly a little too late to convert Ben Curry? He's been out injured for 5 months otherwise I reckon he'd have been in the wider England squad as a backrow by now. He and his brother were magnificent against Bristol last week.
Capon at Bristol and Langdon at Sale have looked promising this season and we have yet to see Barbeary playing senior rugby in his usual position at 2.

McGuigan has been excellent for Falcons although is near 30 now, Blamire is a very promising backup who should get a look in (he’s a big lad and is very good ball in hand, not as good over the ball as McGuigan mind).

[SaintK]

Dunn isn't test quality. Not even close imho. Ben Curry should convert to hooker, mad Eddie might pick him then.

Bit harsh on Dunn! Jones has given him very few minutes on the pitch to prove himself at international level. He's certainly a fine player for Bath.
Possibly a little too late to convert Ben Curry? He's been out injured for 5 months otherwise I reckon he'd have been in the wider England squad as a backrow by now. He and his brother were magnificent against Bristol last week.
Capon at Bristol and Langdon at Sale have looked promising this season and we have yet to see Barbeary playing senior rugby in his usual position at 2.

McGuigan has been excellent for Falcons although is near 30 now, Blamire is a very promising backup who should get a look in (he’s a big lad and is very good ball in hand, not as good over the ball as McGuigan mind).

Yes, McGuigan has been inpressive this season. I recall watching some years ago playing on loan for Tynedale in a Nat1 match and he looked to have huge potential. Think his move to Tigers set him back as he got very little regular starting time and stagnated there.

[SaintK]

Sanderson warming it up nicely for this week's match!!!

Sale boss Alex Sanderson has lit the blue touch paper for a potentially explosive Friday night clash in Manchester by branding Harlequins, the team that sits two points behind the Sharks in fourth place in the Gallagher Premiership table, as ungracious winners.

Harlequins defeated Sale 24-12 at the Twickenham Stoop on February 20 and while Sanderson insisted revenge won’t be the main emotion for his players as they attempt to secure a home playoff semi-final place, there was no hiding the motivation that the Sharks director of rugby and his players are taking from their London loss 14 and a half weeks ago.

Speaking at the weekly Sale media briefing ahead of the round 21 fixture, ex-Saracens assistant Sanderson said: “I don’t want to make it personal. Maybe it’s because I have been a London rival for so many years and have been at the wrong end of a couple of results, they are a side that let you know it when they do win.

“They are not very gracious in victory. It felt like that down there and it’s always nice to inject a bit of animosity in that North vs South divide.”

[duke]

Light blue touch paper....

[inactionman]

Sanderson warming it up nicely for this week's match!!!

Sale boss Alex Sanderson has lit the blue touch paper for a potentially explosive Friday night clash in Manchester by branding Harlequins, the team that sits two points behind the Sharks in fourth place in the Gallagher Premiership table, as ungracious winners.

Harlequins defeated Sale 24-12 at the Twickenham Stoop on February 20 and while Sanderson insisted revenge won’t be the main emotion for his players as they attempt to secure a home playoff semi-final place, there was no hiding the motivation that the Sharks director of rugby and his players are taking from their London loss 14 and a half weeks ago.

Speaking at the weekly Sale media briefing ahead of the round 21 fixture, ex-Saracens assistant Sanderson said: “I don’t want to make it personal. Maybe it’s because I have been a London rival for so many years and have been at the wrong end of a couple of results, they are a side that let you know it when they do win.

“They are not very gracious in victory. It felt like that down there and it’s always nice to inject a bit of animosity in that North vs South divide.”

He not exactly gracious himself - is this an attempt at the Venter siege mentality approach?

[Hal Jordan]

He's disliked us since a contract dispute years ago, if I recall correctly. Certainly there was bad blood when he moved to Worcester. Plus he just seems to be a colossal arsehole in his professional life.

[duke]

Are you mixing up Alex with Pat? As far as I can recall Alex has never had anything to do with Quins.

[sockwithaticket]

He's mistaken Quins being delighted at (surprisingly regularly) getting one over everyone's least favourite salary cap cheats with generally lacking grace in victory.

Not sure it's worth trying to stoke up some North vs. South bullshit when a decent chunk of your starters are from South Africa. Wouldn't really expect it to resonate with them.

[SaintK]

Are you mixing up Alex with Pat? As far as I can recall Alex has never had anything to do with Quins.

This definitely!!!
Sanderson P always came over as a complete twat!!!!