Is this fan racist ?

[Plato’sCave]

That’s true of any label. The concept or racism is actioned on a daily basis by many people, from all walks of life, it’s also mislabelled and misdiagnosed on a daily basis by people from all walks of life. Who has the authority of ultimate diagnosis here? If anyone steps forward and claims this authority then someone else will claim the opposite with an equal claim of authority. Whom shall I believe? Well, neither, I’ll make up my own mind on a case by case basis and that will become my truth because my truth will have no less validity than anyone else’s. So given that how do we make headway seeking the objective from the subjective? Generally I tend to give greater credence to the interpretation that isn’t killing people, limiting the freedom of people or generally smashing shit up. Unfortunately that leaves me siding with no aggregate politic because although individuals are lovely, social groups are irrevocably cunts.

[JM2K6]

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Lolz, you such a sad little angry man, you need to get yourself a wife and settle down with a emptier nutsack - you don’t seem to ever get tired of trying to win everything on the internet. You are the yin to bimbo & bills yang, only angier.

Torq isn’t full honky so his views on racism are more valid than yours.

A quick glance at this thread shows who's desperately trying to convince everyone that they're right, and it ain't me

[redderneck]

Typical Lester Tigers. Always finding a way to grab a headline.

[Slick]

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Lolz, you such a sad little angry man, you need to get yourself a wife and settle down with a emptier nutsack - you don’t seem to ever get tired of trying to win everything on the internet. You are the yin to bimbo & bills yang, only angier.

Torq isn’t full honky so his views on racism are more valid than yours.

You really are a cunt, yeeb. Utter twat

[FujiKiwi]

If you post that Fijians and Native Americans have been fucked over enough and it's not a good idea to treat them as a joke, you get accused of "virtue signalling". It's a word petty little wankstains love to use.

[Carter's Choice]

I am the Principal of a school, and I have a difficult to pronounce Polynesian surname. If the day I was appointed to a new school a parent posted on that school's Facebook page "Can we please get a Principal with a surname I can pronounce?" I would probably be a bit miffed and I would consider their comment to be racist.

[ASMO]

I am the Principal of a school, and I have a difficult to pronounce Polynesian surname. If the day I was appointed to a new school a parent posted on that school's Facebook page "Can we please get a Principal with a surname I can pronounce?" I would probably be a bit miffed and I would consider their comment to be racist.

Same scenario then, but instead of being Polynesian, you are white, would that then be racist in your view of just ignorant and dumb?

[Ymx]

If there were some people struggling to pronounce a foreign, let’s say Russian surname and making fun about their own ignorance, that’s one thing.

However the case was not about struggling to pronounce a name, it was a message about excluding such people.

[ASMO]

If there were some people struggling to pronounce a foreign, let’s say Russian surname and making fun about their own ignorance, that’s one thing.

However the case was not about struggling to pronounce a name, it was a message about excluding such people.

Then at best it is "nameist" as opposed to racist, you cannot conflate them, you are making an assumption and a very big one at that, that the person is really saying they don't want a black or a brown person playing for the club when there is absolutely no evidence to support that supposition. If you could point to other more overt statements they made to this end you would have a stronger case, but you are absolutely assuming intent with no evidence to support it in this instance.

[FujiKiwi]

The names sound different because they come out of a different culture and race. Carole knows that, Nadolo knows it and so does everyone else.

[Ymx]

The names sound different because they come out of a different culture and race. Carole knows that, Nadolo knows it and so does everyone else.

Exactly. It’s anti foreign immigrant. Nothing about skin colour.

[FujiKiwi]

“I said I didn’t want anyone else with a name like Kini Murimurivalu playing for our club. But I never mentioned skin color, so no problem.”

[Ymx]

“I said I didn’t want anyone else with a name like Kini Murimurivalu playing for our club. But I never mentioned skin color, so no problem.”

Is that a real tweet?

[FujiKiwi]

“I said I didn’t want anyone else with a name like Kini Murimurivalu playing for our club. But I never mentioned skin color, so no problem.”

Is that a real tweet?

Whoa no, no. Sorry. I was being satirical.

[Ymx]

I’m not useful in this thread, switching to the match threads

[Yeeb]

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Lolz, you such a sad little angry man, you need to get yourself a wife and settle down with a emptier nutsack - you don’t seem to ever get tired of trying to win everything on the internet. You are the yin to bimbo & bills yang, only angier.

Torq isn’t full honky so his views on racism are more valid than yours.

You really are a cunt, yeeb. Utter twat

Can say they same about you old boy, moving north hasn’t improved you, we preferred the older pre kids version when you did booze and coke
Why would you step in to this thread for no reason ? Jmk barbed, I replied , he replied - he doesn’t need your new found piousness. Laters..

[La soule]

If there were some people struggling to pronounce a foreign, let’s say Russian surname and making fun about their own ignorance, that’s one thing.

However the case was not about struggling to pronounce a name, it was a message about excluding such people.

Then at best it is "nameist" as opposed to racist, you cannot conflate them, you are making an assumption and a very big one at that, that the person is really saying they don't want a black or a brown person playing for the club when there is absolutely no evidence to support that supposition. If you could point to other more overt statements they made to this end you would have a stronger case, but you are absolutely assuming intent with no evidence to support it in this instance.

The name of a person gives an indication of his/her origin. Mohamed Abdelkami is less like to get an interview than Jean Dupond when sending his CV applying for a job.

[Slick]

Lolz, you such a sad little angry man, you need to get yourself a wife and settle down with a emptier nutsack - you don’t seem to ever get tired of trying to win everything on the internet. You are the yin to bimbo & bills yang, only angier.

Torq isn’t full honky so his views on racism are more valid than yours.

You really are a cunt, yeeb. Utter twat

Can say they same about you old boy, moving north hasn’t improved you, we preferred the older pre kids version when you did booze and coke
Why would you step in to this thread for no reason ? Jmk barbed, I replied , he replied - he doesn’t need your new found piousness. Laters..

No, he doesn’t need me at all, just making an observation

[Torquemada 1420]

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Back in the mid-late 80s, this subject was a regular discussion amongst the (predominantly) Black-Asian crowd I hung with because we were living it. One of the Ghanaian girls, in that projective manner particular to Afro-Carribeans, would opine something like “White people created racism. White people perpetuated racism. White people don’t now get to f**king tell me what is and isn’t racist too”. I wasn’t the only one to counter argue that point, but we were a minority (there were some pretty radicalised ones who even regarded this country as their enemy). Back then, I viewed that type of dialogue was necessary. And, anyway, the ultimately deciding forces of the judiciary were all white and were, and still are, doing exactly that. Decades later and the experience of places like PR has me changing my view.

The Paki thing. Of all the racially motivated insults I received, this one was the oddball.
“Pakeee”
“Yeah. And….?”
Depowered.
To me that contraction should be no different to Welshie, Scotty or Windies. You see, this guy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/25/race.world
was right. But the battle to reclaim the word from the hands of the racists is continually hampered by virtual signalling c**ts. Well done there. Should we ban the St George flag because of your (racist) hooligans’ (mis)appropriation? So, to invoke Jennifer, you’ll forgive me if I think you don’t get to f**king tell me what is and isn’t racist to me. Otherwise, feel free to haul your privileged, white, middle-class arse up here from Surbiton anytime and I’ll see if I can reconvene what’s left of the crew and you can tell them why you should dictate to them what is/isn’t racist. I’m sure you’d get a sympathetic hearing.

Maybe best then you stick to things you know/have experience of such as depression or Joe Marler’s hair cuts.

[Ymx]

Obviously an emotive topic.

Obviously on the topic I think it’s a pretty horrible thing to say to make someone from another country feel unwanted.

On the topic of racism, I honestly don’t know how I’m expected to behave. What to say? What not to say? White silence ... Virtue Signalling is also disempowering.

So I’m just going to continue as I am, and inclined to ignore it all, ignore country of origin or race and just deal with people on merit irrespective of demographic.

[Raggs]

Obviously an emotive topic.

Obviously on the topic I think it’s a pretty horrible thing to say to make someone from another country feel unwanted.

On the topic of racism, I honestly don’t know how I’m expected to behave. What to say? What not to say? White silence ... Virtue Signalling is also disempowering.

So I’m just going to continue as I am, and inclined to ignore it all, ignore country of origin or race and just deal with people on merit irrespective of demographic.

Pretty sure that's what you're meant to do...

[Plato’sCave]

Obviously an emotive topic.

Obviously on the topic I think it’s a pretty horrible thing to say to make someone from another country feel unwanted.

On the topic of racism, I honestly don’t know how I’m expected to behave. What to say? What not to say? White silence ... Virtue Signalling is also disempowering.

So I’m just going to continue as I am, and inclined to ignore it all, ignore country of origin or race and just deal with people on merit irrespective of demographic.

Silence isn’t violence, they mean two completely different things. Whoever told you silence is violence has confused the meanings of a rhyme and a synonym.

[Ymx]

Obviously an emotive topic.

Obviously on the topic I think it’s a pretty horrible thing to say to make someone from another country feel unwanted.

On the topic of racism, I honestly don’t know how I’m expected to behave. What to say? What not to say? White silence ... Virtue Signalling is also disempowering.

So I’m just going to continue as I am, and inclined to ignore it all, ignore country of origin or race and just deal with people on merit irrespective of demographic.

Pretty sure that's what you're meant to do...

Cheers

[Yeeb]

Obviously an emotive topic.

Obviously on the topic I think it’s a pretty horrible thing to say to make someone from another country feel unwanted.

On the topic of racism, I honestly don’t know how I’m expected to behave. What to say? What not to say? White silence ... Virtue Signalling is also disempowering.

So I’m just going to continue as I am, and inclined to ignore it all, ignore country of origin or race and just deal with people on merit irrespective of demographic.

Silence isn’t violence, they mean two completely different things. Whoever told you silence is violence has confused the meanings of a rhyme and a synonym.

Or confusing the subject with farts.
Silent but violent.
The one who smelt it, dealt it
The one who made the rhyme, did the crime
Etc

[Torquemada 1420]

Obviously an emotive topic.

Obviously on the topic I think it’s a pretty horrible thing to say to make someone from another country feel unwanted.

On the topic of racism, I honestly don’t know how I’m expected to behave. What to say? What not to say? White silence ... Virtue Signalling is also disempowering.

So I’m just going to continue as I am, and inclined to ignore it all, ignore country of origin or race and just deal with people on merit irrespective of demographic.

It's not the words but the intent and that's why the VS thing p*sses so many off; armchair warriors making simplified pronouncements upon all about what is right and wrong. Sounds corny but you've hit the nail on the head; be a good fellow human and all will be fine. Everyone will ACCIDENTALLY offend at times but the reciprocal is only a good fellow human will understand and let it pass; the other VS's {Victim Status} can f**k off too.

Otherwise, in this ambulance chasing society, everyone will be walking on egg shells just as you indicate.

[FujiKiwi]

Except that in this case, the use of the term "virtue signaling" is sanctimonious bullshit. In fact, the guy using it on this thread best fits the description of "an armchair warrior making a simplified pronouncement of what is right and wrong".

Carol from Leicester tweeted something ignorant, and got called on it by Nemani Nadolo. It's not virtue signaling to suggest she shouldn't have tweeted that and that he had the right to reply.

[Torquemada 1420]

Except that in this case, the use of the term "virtue signaling" is sanctimonious bullshit. In fact, the guy using it on this thread best fits the description of "an armchair warrior making a simplified pronouncement of what is right and wrong".

Carol from Leicester tweeted something ignorant, and got called on it by Nemani Nadolo. It's not virtue signaling to suggest she shouldn't have tweeted that and that he had the right to reply.

Once again, your comprehension and debating has more holes in it than a flat Earth theory. No-one has said anything other than her tweeting was unwise/ignorant/ill judged (esp in current climate). Alters nothing in the regard that is was a nothing event.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Except that in this case, the use of the term "virtue signaling" is sanctimonious bullshit. In fact, the guy using it on this thread best fits the description of "an armchair warrior making a simplified pronouncement of what is right and wrong".

Carol from Leicester tweeted something ignorant, and got called on it by Nemani Nadolo. It's not virtue signaling to suggest she shouldn't have tweeted that and that he had the right to reply.

So if a joke, or perhaps in this case an attempted joke, causes offence you can't say it?

[FujiKiwi]

Except that in this case, the use of the term "virtue signaling" is sanctimonious bullshit. In fact, the guy using it on this thread best fits the description of "an armchair warrior making a simplified pronouncement of what is right and wrong".

Carol from Leicester tweeted something ignorant, and got called on it by Nemani Nadolo. It's not virtue signaling to suggest she shouldn't have tweeted that and that he had the right to reply.

So if a joke, or perhaps in this case an attempted joke, causes offence you can't say it?

I believe in free speech. You can say whatever you want. Should you say that you don't want any more Fijians at your club? I don't think so.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Except that in this case, the use of the term "virtue signaling" is sanctimonious bullshit. In fact, the guy using it on this thread best fits the description of "an armchair warrior making a simplified pronouncement of what is right and wrong".

Carol from Leicester tweeted something ignorant, and got called on it by Nemani Nadolo. It's not virtue signaling to suggest she shouldn't have tweeted that and that he had the right to reply.

So if a joke, or perhaps in this case an attempted joke, causes offence you can't say it?

I believe in free speech. You can say whatever you want. Should you say that you don't want any more Fijians at your club? I don't think so.

Only she didn't say that, though I think it's good Nadolo has responded because it will encourage some people to think about how the phrase things

[FujiKiwi]

So if a joke, or perhaps in this case an attempted joke, causes offence you can't say it?

I believe in free speech. You can say whatever you want. Should you say that you don't want any more Fijians at your club? I don't think so.

Only she didn't say that, though I think it's good Nadolo has responded because it will encourage some people to think about how the phrase things

She wrote her comment directly under a facebook post saying Kini Murimurivalu had been signed.

[JM2K6]

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Back in the mid-late 80s, this subject was a regular discussion amongst the (predominantly) Black-Asian crowd I hung with because we were living it. One of the Ghanaian girls, in that projective manner particular to Afro-Carribeans, would opine something like “White people created racism. White people perpetuated racism. White people don’t now get to f**king tell me what is and isn’t racist too”. I wasn’t the only one to counter argue that point, but we were a minority (there were some pretty radicalised ones who even regarded this country as their enemy). Back then, I viewed that type of dialogue was necessary. And, anyway, the ultimately deciding forces of the judiciary were all white and were, and still are, doing exactly that. Decades later and the experience of places like PR has me changing my view.

The Paki thing. Of all the racially motivated insults I received, this one was the oddball.
“Pakeee”
“Yeah. And….?”
Depowered.
To me that contraction should be no different to Welshie, Scotty or Windies. You see, this guy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/25/race.world
was right. But the battle to reclaim the word from the hands of the racists is continually hampered by virtual signalling c**ts. Well done there. Should we ban the St George flag because of your (racist) hooligans’ (mis)appropriation? So, to invoke Jennifer, you’ll forgive me if I think you don’t get to f**king tell me what is and isn’t racist to me. Otherwise, feel free to haul your privileged, white, middle-class arse up here from Surbiton anytime and I’ll see if I can reconvene what’s left of the crew and you can tell them why you should dictate to them what is/isn’t racist. I’m sure you’d get a sympathetic hearing.

As I've mentioned before, I don't live in Surbiton, and I'm not exactly quiet in real life either. But here's the thing: you deciding that you personally being able to say that being called "Paki" doesn't offend you doesn't give you the right to keep calling the Pakistani cricket team a term that's a racial epithet in this country. By continuing to do so to make some sort of braindead philosophical point, you're doing exactly the same thing as all those alleged virtue signallers are apparently doing - it's purely performative and self-serving.

There was no actual battle in this country to reclaim the word "paki". It is, and has been, overwhelmingly used by racists, in this country. It's absurd to point the finger at people who recognise it's almost entirely used by racists in this country as being the problem.

Maybe best then you stick to things you know/have experience of such as depression or Joe Marler’s hair cuts.

Christ, you're an absolute cunt.

[Torquemada 1420]

As I've mentioned before, I don't live in Surbiton, and I'm not exactly quiet in real life either. But here's the thing: you deciding that you personally being able to say that being called "Paki" doesn't offend you doesn't give you the right to keep calling the Pakistani cricket team a term that's a racial epithet in this country. By continuing to do so to make some sort of braindead philosophical point, you're doing exactly the same thing as all those alleged virtue signallers are apparently doing - it's purely performative and self-serving.

There was no actual battle in this country to reclaim the word "paki". It is, and has been, overwhelmingly used by racists, in this country. It's absurd to point the finger at people who recognise it's almost entirely used by racists in this country as being the problem.

Maybe best then you stick to things you know/have experience of such as depression or Joe Marler’s hair cuts.

Christ, you're an absolute cunt.

There you go again. Telling us from your cosy position what is going on. Just how TF would you know? The persistent arrogance. Should I tip my hat and say "Yes, bwana. I's a knows yous a knows whatsa a best for me"?

The closest thing you are likely to have experienced in regards racism will have been a jolly jape doing a runner with your chums from the local "Ruby".

Convenient duck on the St George flag issue.

[JM2K6]

As I've mentioned before, I don't live in Surbiton, and I'm not exactly quiet in real life either. But here's the thing: you deciding that you personally being able to say that being called "Paki" doesn't offend you doesn't give you the right to keep calling the Pakistani cricket team a term that's a racial epithet in this country. By continuing to do so to make some sort of braindead philosophical point, you're doing exactly the same thing as all those alleged virtue signallers are apparently doing - it's purely performative and self-serving.

There was no actual battle in this country to reclaim the word "paki". It is, and has been, overwhelmingly used by racists, in this country. It's absurd to point the finger at people who recognise it's almost entirely used by racists in this country as being the problem.

Maybe best then you stick to things you know/have experience of such as depression or Joe Marler’s hair cuts.

Christ, you're an absolute cunt.

There you go again. Telling us from your cosy position what is going on. Just how TF would you know? The persistent arrogance. Should I tip my hat and say "Yes, bwana. I's a knows yous a knows whatsa a best for me"?

The closest thing you are likely to have experienced in regards racism will have been a jolly jape doing a runner with your chums from the local "Ruby".

Convenient duck on the St George flag issue.

Convenient duck on... a question as to whether we should ban the English flag? That's a dumb fucking question, I didn't think you were serious and apparently I overestimated you.

The fact that I've not experienced racism directed towards me does not mean a thing in this conversation, aside from your desperate desire to build a version of me that is some way off reality. But please, continue with your performative anti-wokeness, you're really making a difference.

[Uncle fester]

It's the kind of "joke" your gran would be amused by.

Therefore it's "light racism" at the very least.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's the kind of "joke" your gran would be amused by.

Therefore it's "light racism" at the very least.

Have you never chortled at or commented on people like Jiffy mangling names of the players? Jiffy himself will from time to time have heard people come nowhere close to Welsh pronunciations and heard many jokes about his language. People do make jokes, sometimes inappropriately. Whether this was flat out racism or a joke which has badly missed the mark for some I don't know, but I can live with the idea it wasn't intended with malice whilst others reasonably make the point given a wider context the phrasing causes concern

[Uncle fester]

It's the kind of "joke" your gran would be amused by.

Therefore it's "light racism" at the very least.

Have you never chortled at or commented on people like Jiffy mangling names of the players? Jiffy himself will from time to time have heard people come nowhere close to Welsh pronunciations and heard many jokes about his language. People do make jokes, sometimes inappropriately. Whether this was flat out racism or a joke which has badly missed the mark for some I don't know, but I can live with the idea it wasn't intended with malice whilst others reasonably make the point given a wider context the phrasing causes concern

Sure I mangle enough names myself but that's different to making fun of or being disrespectful of somebody's name on a public forum.

It's not a major biggie but Nadolo is within his rights to point out that it's not on.

[Torquemada 1420]

Maybe best then you stick to things you know/have experience of such as depression or Joe Marler’s hair cuts.

Christ, you're an absolute cunt.

Did wonder why, of all the things, that seemed to p*ss you off. It's a matter you have experience of, is personal to you and you make known and so kinda relevant. Then realised that chucking the Marler bit on the
sentence could seem to trivialise. Complete apology. Not my intent.

[Torquemada 1420]

Convenient duck on... a question as to whether we should ban the English flag? That's a dumb fucking question, I didn't think you were serious and apparently I overestimated you.

Oh. So a symbol that is routinely seen by minorities as a mark of a threat (with ample justification) is off bounds. But of course. I forget. The master of morality JM knows best and all boundaries are defined, in b&w, by him.

[Yeeb]