The Official English Rugby Thread

[notfatcat]

Oh ffs. What is so difficult to comprehend? Raggs said the biggest backline, and I said Quins would give them a run. I've no idea which set of 5 players is bigger or heavier but I will list them here and we can see.

Du Preez - 15st 2 vs Lang - 14st 13
Solomona 16st 7 vs Earle - 15st 13
Janse van Rensburg - 17st 2 vs Lasike - 17st 12
Tuilagi - 17st 4 vs Esterhuizen - 18st 2
James (Sam) - 15st 6 vs Ibitoye - 15st 1

81st 7 vs 81st 13

It's not rocket science chaps.

[notfatcat]

So the Quins could give them a run comment didn't speak to that proposed selection having a similar heft, it was merely a comment that selection would be good enough to perform well against Sale?

I'm happy to repeat myself - Raggs said biggest backline and that's what I was responding to.

[JM2K6]

Ah, internet weights. Righto.

[notfatcat]

Ah, internet weights. Righto.

So you think by a combination of the Sale players actually being heavier and Quins players actually being lighter that there is no comparison?

Which weights would you like me to use?

[JM2K6]

Ah, internet weights. Righto.

So you think by a combination of the Sale players actually being heavier and Quins players actually being lighter that there is no comparison?

Which weights would you like me to use?

I dunno - not wikipedia ones. Especially ones that reckon Sam James is lighter than Earle

[notfatcat]

I think Earle has a bigger build, but if James is 2 inches taller then yeah I'd expect him to be a bit heavier. Their bone densities are likely to be different though, based on their ethnicities.

[youthleth]

I think Earle has a bigger build, but if James is 2 inches taller then yeah I'd expect him to be a bit heavier. Their bone densities are likely to be different though, based on their ethnicities.

Van Rensberg is only 3'6", so your logic is dodgy.

[Margin__Walker]

Not the biggest surprise given their position, but the Yorkshire RFU Academy has been disbanded.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest- ... g-support/

Not sure what this means for the catchment area and whether it will be redistributed. You'd hope there would be some DPP coverage

[SaintK]

Tigers busy replacing those who have been let go! Luke Wallace back in the GP

Fiji winger Kini Murimurivalu and Argentina back Matias Morini are among five new players to sign for Leicester.
Murimurivalu, 31, moves to Welford Road after eight seasons at La Rochelle and has played at three World Cups.
Morini, 25, joins from the Jaguares Super Rugby franchise and had played at the last two World Cups for Argentina.
Tigers have also signed Super Rugby-based backs Kobus Van Wyk, 28, and Guy Porter, 23 and ex-Harlequins forward Luke Wallace, 29.

[Margin__Walker]

Yep interesting to see how Van Wyk gets on up North. Fair play to Luke Wallace for making it back to the big time, especially at a time when there's likely to be plenty of free agents on the market as clubs run slightly smaller squads.

[Margin__Walker]

LI announced their senior academy intake today. Notable for the inclusion of JJ's younger brother and Zinzan Brooke's lad. Tarek Haffar's the comically hard to tackle prop that's either going to end up a superstar or be that kid that dominated at U18, but got folded in half in men's scrums.

Tarek Haffar (LH)
Will Joseph (Centre)
George Davis (Flanker/Hooker)
Alex Harmes (Wing)
Michael Dykes (Wing)
Joe Vajner (Hooker)
Lucas Brooke (Flanker/Hooker)

[Un Pilier]

Yep interesting to see how Van Wyk gets on up North. Fair play to Luke Wallace for making it back to the big time, especially at a time when there's likely to be plenty of free agents on the market as clubs run slightly smaller squads.

Yeah. Good player, LW, if he can stay fit. Not seen too much of the other guys - or not paid enough attention.

[Un Pilier]

LI announced their senior academy intake today. Notable for the inclusion of JJ's younger brother and Zinzan Brooke's lad. Tarek Haffar's the comically hard to tackle prop that's either going to end up a superstar or be that kid that dominated at U18, but got folded in half in men's scrums.

Tarek Haffar (LH)
Will Joseph (Centre)
George Davis (Flanker/Hooker)
Alex Harmes (Wing)
Michael Dykes (Wing)
Joe Vajner (Hooker)
Lucas Brooke (Flanker/Hooker)

Lucas has a challenge similar to Mick Schumacher!

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, there's something about a name. He's not really been a superstar at U18s and doesn't seem to have the skillset his old man had. That said, he's pretty robust and clearly has a fair bit of drive so may make it as a pro. If he does, it will probably have to be at hooker, as he looks a touch short for a blindside.

Joseph's the one with the famous name to keep an eye on. Plays (and looks) just like his brother at a similar age.

[Saint]

Looks like Jamie Gibson is back at Saints as injury cover for Tom Wood

[JM2K6]

Tigers busy replacing those who have been let go! Luke Wallace back in the GP

Fiji winger Kini Murimurivalu and Argentina back Matias Morini are among five new players to sign for Leicester.
Murimurivalu, 31, moves to Welford Road after eight seasons at La Rochelle and has played at three World Cups.
Morini, 25, joins from the Jaguares Super Rugby franchise and had played at the last two World Cups for Argentina.
Tigers have also signed Super Rugby-based backs Kobus Van Wyk, 28, and Guy Porter, 23 and ex-Harlequins forward Luke Wallace, 29.

Nadolo, too. Which is a hell of a signing if he's actually any good still.

[SaintK]

Looks like Jamie Gibson is back at Saints as injury cover for Tom Wood

Excellent!

[sockwithaticket]

Apparently out of the 896 players and staff tested this round only 2 came up positive

[Margin__Walker]

Numbers certainly trending in the right direction on that front. Bodes well for the mid August restart.

[sockwithaticket]

This was a bigger sample too. Last one was 850-something, so even more encouraging.

[geordie_6]

When the Italy game rolls around, it seems we're unlikely to have access to players from clubs who reach the Premiership final.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ar-players

[Margin__Walker]

Interesting. Always likely to be a fair bit of fixture congestion with them trying to finish the season.

[Margin__Walker]

Tom Homer and Matt Cornish (Ealing Hooker) sign for London Irish.

Looks like Ruan Botha is the only player in danger now of leaving due to a contract dispute. Seems to be a good possibility he'll stay in Japan.

Other big name signings from last season all staying.

[Raggs]

Telegraph says there's a plan to scrap academies, have 6 regional hubs, that feed two championship teams, and operate a draft system in the premiership. Saves the prem clubs a lot of cash, and passes that expense onto the championship...

I'm not quite sure how the championship deals with the expense. Nor what happens if one of the championship clubs gets relegated...

[Rhubarb & Custard]

That's a lot of travelling for parents and kids. It's not great for a lot of people with the larger number of academies we have now, the country still isn't exactly littered with the things

[JM2K6]

This is, well, dramatic:

Plan drawn up by Edward Griffiths envisages players graduating to Championship and, after at least a year, qualifying for Premiership draft

By
Gavin Mairs, (Telegraph)


Premiership Rugby clubs are to be asked to replace their academy system with a network of six “world class regional hubs” as part of a radical plan to overhaul the development pathway in England, Telegraph Sport can reveal.

The move, praised as “the most significant innovation since the move to professionalism,” is one of the foundation stones of the new blueprint to remodel the Championship, drawn up by Ed Griffiths, the former Saracens chief executive.

Details emerged last week of the proposal to restructure the Championship, with a recommendation that the 12-team division be split into into a northern and southern conference, with promotion to the Premiership based on agreed criteria between the leagues rather than a first-past-the-post format.


However it is understood that the proposed new structure would also see the 13 Premiership academies replaced by six regional centres based at universities across the country and linked to two clubs in a modelled Championship.


Premiership clubs would then be able to select the best young English talent through an American-style draft each December and give them three-year contracts.

The 76-page proposal, which has been seen by Telegraph Sport, forecasts that Premiership clubs would save between £600,000 to £900,000 by closing their academies with the Championship clubs meeting the costs of providing the coaching, strength and conditioning and medical staff at the six hubs.

Players would be guaranteed around 30 competitive games per season and after one year would be eligible for the draft system in which each Premiership club would be given four picks from a pool of 60 players.

Griffiths, who has already met with Bill Sweeney, the Rugby Football Union chief executive, and the professional rugby director, Conor O’Shea, is to make a formal presentation to the Premiership clubs next month after a series of informal discussions.

He is also exploring interest from broadcasters, sponsors and universities with the aim of establishing the new academies by the start of the 2021 season.

“This proposal tries to primarily find a purpose and a role for a sustainable Championship but what it also tries to do is to harness all the resources available to the game into a more streamlined, integrated pathway for younger players,” Griffiths told Telegraph Sport.

“The plan for the new pathway, which would remain under RFU control, would harness universities’ facilities in a hub that would include other educational establishments and crucially Championship clubs, because Championship clubs can provide game time.

“There are many failings of the current system but the main one is that the best young players in the country in the Premiership academies spend too much time holding tackle bags and the A League, which I understand is not going to take place next season, has been a pretty poor competition.

“Young players in this structure would get world-class rugby coaching in six regional academies, they would get their parallel education and training from universities and associated educational institutions and they would get their game time with the Championship clubs.

“That to me is a streamlined, integrated solution where everyone in the game is working together to provide the youngster the best opportunity.”

Player welfare is also central to the vision, which has the working title TEC – The English Championship, with a comprehensive programme outlined with “game-leading” regulations including concussion protocols, use of painkillers, rest periods and workload monitoring.

“At some point the game is going to have to get serious about protecting players,” Griffiths added. “This will go further on player welfare than any other league in the world at the moment”

Griffiths, backed unanimously at a meeting of the Championship clubs last Wednesday to explore a new arrangement, acknowledges however that persuading the clubs to give up their academies will not be an easy task.

“We have not ploughed all this money into our academy to hand it over to the Championship,” said one source.

The estimated cost of running the new Championship model, including funding player salaries and the new academies, is £15.6 million in the first year, which would require significant investment from both the RFU and Premiership Rugby on top of broadcasting and sponsorship revenues. Griffiths expects the requirement for external funding to reduce year-on-year.

“The challenge is to persuade people to change,” said Griffiths. “Change is always viewed with suspicion and ulterior motives but I genuinely think this is a win for everybody – the RFU, the Premiership clubs, the Championship and younger players.”

I'm not sure it's workable but then I think if it worked out financially it might not be a terrible idea. The NZ system is excellent at identifying and promoting talent, and this is probably the closest we can get to it given the handicap of, well, having independent clubs.

[Margin__Walker]

From the article I understand they are talking about all players being available to Championship clubs from first year of senior academy (18/19), then the better players getting drafted for the following year.

All very well talking about how much rugby these kids will be guaranteed, but very few players are actually ready for Championship rugby at 18. Most end up in ND1/2 on loan currently.

I may have misunderstood somewhere, but I'm not sure these kids will be getting more gametime than they do at the moment.

[JM2K6]

It also appears to be "the Premiership save some costs [but give up the academies] and the Championship foots the bill" which is uh well

[Raggs]

It also appears to be "the Premiership save some costs [but give up the academies] and the Championship foots the bill" which is uh well

The only thing I can sort of see, is that the championship clubs will have access to a lot of reasonably good youngsters, all on low wages, and probably some support from the RFU too, but I still don't really know if that's going to be enough to cover the costs.

[sockwithaticket]

the Championship clubs meeting the costs of providing the coaching, strength and conditioning and medical staff at the six hubs.

That's not an insignificant spend and are Championship teams going to be able to afford, even between them, people of the calibre that would be present at Prem academies let alone "world class"?

“We have not ploughed all this money into our academy to hand it over to the Championship,” said one source.

The likes of Worcester have certainly invested heavily in their actual academy facilities and probably wouldn't relish having to try and re-pupose them or have them sit idle.

[JM2K6]

Ibitoye has officially joined Agen, thus saving me the hassle of spending the next x years praying he learns some defensive nous and reliability.

[Raggs]

Ibitoye has officially joined Agen, thus saving me the hassle of spending the next x years praying he learns some defensive nous and reliability.

Must be quite the relief...

I know it's been said, but he's reminiscent of May, if he can develop in the same way, great. I just get the feeling that whilst May is a bit odd, he's obviously highly focused on improving as a player, I don't know if Ibitoye gives the same vibes, but I guess someone who follows quins would know better.

[JM2K6]

Honestly, it's impossible for me to say. His weaknesses are obvious but whether they're down to some sort of mental block, or being a bit afraid, or not thinking correctly, or a technical problem, or just bad coaching, I can't tell. He's just bad at a number of things that he really should be better at and hasn't ever really improved them.

Ridiculous player with ball in hand and I'm sure France will suit him, they love the razzle dazzle and aren't too fussed about all the difficult stuff wingers have to do.

[JM2K6]

So it looks like no relegation for a while:


https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/p ... hip-565755 (I'll post it here as I had to get past their annoying popups/anti-ad-blocker tech)

Premiership rugby: End of promotion and relegation moves step closer
Ring-fencing of top tier could take place for at least four years from 2021 to 2025 under a plan to restructure English club rugby

By Hugh Godwin

Promotion to the Premiership would cease for at least four years from 2021 to 2025, and possibly much longer, under a plan to restructure English club rugby around a revamped second tier.

The suspension of promotion from the proposed “English Championship” to the top flight is contained in a 76-page blueprint that was backed last week by the 11 current second-division sides, and has now been presented to the Premiership clubs and the Rugby Football Union.

Drafted by the former Saracens chief executive Edward Griffiths, the plan – which remains subject to negotiation – positions the second tier as a new English player development hub, with an end to Premiership academies, and the Championship clubs and six universities running them jointly instead.

The trade-off is that it could be many years before another club replicates Exeter by rising through the leagues to the top division.

There is a stated assumption that Saracens will rejoin the Premiership next year as the last club to benefit from automatic promotion.

After that, there would be a four-year moratorium, about which the plan says: “The Premiership will be ring-fenced, allowing a period for both leagues to settle and develop a sustainable model.”

A joint “Promotion and Relegation Commission”, chaired by an independent QC, would decide on promotion from the 2025-26 season onwards, with an annual audit of each Premiership and The English Championship club to “indicate whether a PRL club is performing consistently badly or a TEC club is performing consistently well.”

It would be a huge concession by the hundreds of English rugby clubs outside the 13 Premiership shareholders, as automatic promotion has been enshrined since the sport went open in 1995. Promotion from National League One to the second division would also be suspended for at least two seasons.

The English Championship plan is costed at £15.6million in its first year, including £600,000 per club for player wages, compared with the Premiership spend of around 12 times that amount. It is likely to require financial input from the RFU. The predominantly English players would be centrally contracted to the league, and left to develop at their school or local club before joining a Championship academy for at least a year and only then becoming available to the Premiership via an annual draft broadcast live on TV.

Other features for the clubs include home matches against Tier Two/Three nations and a national knockout cup, plus a regional “division of origin” competition and an English Championship XV to tour France or South Africa.

[Raggs]

Please, please, please, please, please, please every championship side go absolutely nuts, and batter Saracens.

[Un Pilier]

Please, please, please, please, please, please every championship side go absolutely nuts, and batter Saracens.

A contrary view might be that they will have been adequately punished by then and that to wish them obliterated might be seen as a tad vindictive, n’est pas?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Who will pick the independent QC, and will the QC be sound?

[sockwithaticket]

Please, please, please, please, please, please every championship side go absolutely nuts, and batter Saracens.

A contrary view might be that they will have been adequately punished by then and that to wish them obliterated might be seen as a tad vindictive, n’est pas?

Even prior to the financial doping they've not been the best loved of sides. They deserved to be turfed out of the league for that abominable Right Said Fred song they used to play all the cunting time.

[Raggs]

Vindictive shmindictive. I'd just find it bloody hilarious.

Edit - and they've only been relegated and fined. New updated regs would have seen them stripped of trophies too.

[Un Pilier]

Please, please, please, please, please, please every championship side go absolutely nuts, and batter Saracens.

A contrary view might be that they will have been adequately punished by then and that to wish them obliterated might be seen as a tad vindictive, n’est pas?

Even prior to the financial doping they've not been the best loved of sides. They deserved to be turfed out of the league for that abominable Right Said Fred song they used to play all the cunting time.

I hadn’t factored that in tbf.