So, coronavirus...

[Calculon]

I've been offered the vaccine recently, though I am reluctant to take it as I have natural immunity from infection. My older relatives have now received it.

don't be a twat, taking the vaccine is only going to give another boost to your immune system

Is it?

I don't have any problems with vaccination (apart from the crazy profit margins that Pfizer are putting on their product) and if I hadn't been previously infected, then a vaccination would be a less risky method of protection that infection.

Maybe I can just ask for 1 dose

Yes, of course it is

Ask for the single shot j and j vaccine


Edit: even if you don't feel you need to take the vaccine under the mistaken belief that it will not increase your protection against covid19, despite the mass of scientific evidence saying otherwise - the higher the percentage of South Africans vaccinated, the quicker the country can open up internationally, which will benefit millions of South Africans. So stop being a selfish twat like Wilson's Toffee and get yourself vaccinated

[sturginho]

90% of over 16s now vaccinated in Ireland !

Is that both doses?

[Biffer]

I've been offered the vaccine recently, though I am reluctant to take it as I have natural immunity from infection. My older relatives have now received it.

don't be a twat, taking the vaccine is only going to give another boost to your immune system

Is it?

I don't have any problems with vaccination (apart from the crazy profit margins that Pfizer are putting on their product) and if I hadn't been previously infected, then a vaccination would be a less risky method of protection that infection.

Maybe I can just ask for 1 dose

Yes, it is. That’s what it does.

[fishfoodie]

90% of over 16s now vaccinated in Ireland !

Is that both doses?

I think its at least a single dose; but >85% of "Adults", are fully vaccinated; & the younger cohort only opened up at the end of August, so only the very earliest would have had enough time to get both jabs. It looks like the overall fully vaccinated is ~88%

[sturginho]

90% of over 16s now vaccinated in Ireland !

Is that both doses?

I think its at least a single dose; but >85% of "Adults", are fully vaccinated; & the younger cohort only opened up at the end of August, so only the very earliest would have had enough time to get both jabs. It looks like the overall fully vaccinated is ~88%

[Insane_Homer]

[Marylandolorian]

don't be a twat, taking the vaccine is only going to give another boost to your immune system

Is it?

I don't have any problems with vaccination (apart from the crazy profit margins that Pfizer are putting on their product) and if I hadn't been previously infected, then a vaccination would be a less risky method of protection that infection.

Maybe I can just ask for 1 dose

Yes, it is. That’s what it does.

Definitely get vaccinate. A couple of weeks ago I saw several articles saying that people who got the covid then got a mRNA vaccine had some type of “superhuman immunity “

[yermum]

.... soz

[Biffer]

Literally two posts beforehand. Come on man.

[Calculon]

According to the Web 1.6% of population fully vaccinated in Kenya as opposed to 13% in South Africa. That gap is widening. both figures are too low tbh.

I find those figures a bit hard to believe for Kenya from what I’ve been hearing

Maybe, I've had another look and also got a figure of 2.9 % fully vaccinated for Kenya. According to ourworldindata.org., 3.29million doses administered in Kenya, total population a little bit over 55 million. I would think the doses figure should be fairly accurate.

Despite the pretense of "following the science" it's pretty obvious the decisions were based on political lobbying and prejudice. Doesn't say much for SAs ability to lobby the UK government though. Also looks a bit silly when a vaccinated saffa can fly into Germany without having to quarantine or self isolate but is completely barred from entering the UK.

tweet from the UK high commission in pretoria

We recognise positive developments in SA - cases going down, data on variants of concern improving and vaccinations rising. While a small number of cases, we remain concerned about the continued presence of Beta given its potential ability to circumvent vaccines.

"following the science"

The beta variant hasn't been detected in over a month, it's been completely replaced by the delta variant in SA. And of course it never circumvented the vaccines.

SA government are furious about the decision but can't do much without shooting themselves in the foot

at least the US has some sense

By November, the US will allow entry to South African travellers as long as they’re fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

[Rinkals]

I notice that Germany have also accepted South African vaccines.

It would appear that Boris' Government is alone in not accepting vaccines from countries inhabited by "picaninnies".

[Calculon]

I don't think racism was a reason, more likely the UK government was scared for domestic political reasons to take off too many countries at once from the red list and south africa just isn't that important so it stayed on the list.

[Sandstorm]

I notice that Germany have also accepted South African vaccines.

It would appear that Boris' Government is alone in not accepting vaccines from countries inhabited by "picaninnies".

Try not to be a dick.

[robmatic]

I notice that Germany have also accepted South African vaccines.

It would appear that Boris' Government is alone in not accepting vaccines from countries inhabited by "picaninnies".

I don't know what the justification is for not accepting some countries' vaccine certificates. Is there supposed to be some sort of risk that they are not genuine? Because the US vaccine certificates that I've seen are handwritten scraps of paper and they are apparently totally fine.

[Rinkals]

I notice that Germany have also accepted South African vaccines.

It would appear that Boris' Government is alone in not accepting vaccines from countries inhabited by "picaninnies".

I don't know what the justification is for not accepting some countries' vaccine certificates. Is there supposed to be some sort of risk that they are not genuine? Because the US vaccine certificates that I've seen are handwritten scraps of paper and they are apparently totally fine.

They accept South African passports and other documents.

That there is suddenly doubt cast on the ability of South Africa to regulate and control proof of vaccination is insulting and I'm inclined to feel it has its roots, if not in outright racism, certainly in the perception that the Nations listed as untrustworthy are inferior. In spite of Sandy's protestations.

[robmatic]

I notice that Germany have also accepted South African vaccines.

It would appear that Boris' Government is alone in not accepting vaccines from countries inhabited by "picaninnies".

I don't know what the justification is for not accepting some countries' vaccine certificates. Is there supposed to be some sort of risk that they are not genuine? Because the US vaccine certificates that I've seen are handwritten scraps of paper and they are apparently totally fine.

They accept South African passports and other documents.

That there is suddenly doubt cast on the ability of South Africa to regulate and control proof of vaccination is insulting and I'm inclined to feel it has its roots, if not in outright racism, certainly in the perception that the Nations listed as untrustworthy are inferior. In spite of Sandy's protestations.

I was vaccinated in Turkey and the health service's IT system here is probably more robust and advanced than the NHS one and produces EU-compatible vaccine certificates. It's not acceptable for the UK though.

[Slick]

I notice that Germany have also accepted South African vaccines.

It would appear that Boris' Government is alone in not accepting vaccines from countries inhabited by "picaninnies".

I don't know what the justification is for not accepting some countries' vaccine certificates. Is there supposed to be some sort of risk that they are not genuine? Because the US vaccine certificates that I've seen are handwritten scraps of paper and they are apparently totally fine.

They accept South African passports and other documents.

That there is suddenly doubt cast on the ability of South Africa to regulate and control proof of vaccination is insulting and I'm inclined to feel it has its roots, if not in outright racism, certainly in the perception that the Nations listed as untrustworthy are inferior. In spite of Sandy's protestations.

That doesn't explain Kenya moving though, does it. I really think it's the simple fact that the SA government have been generally shite and the Kenyans have been generally pretty good.

[Calculon]

I don't know what the justification is for not accepting some countries' vaccine certificates. Is there supposed to be some sort of risk that they are not genuine? Because the US vaccine certificates that I've seen are handwritten scraps of paper and they are apparently totally fine.

They accept South African passports and other documents.

That there is suddenly doubt cast on the ability of South Africa to regulate and control proof of vaccination is insulting and I'm inclined to feel it has its roots, if not in outright racism, certainly in the perception that the Nations listed as untrustworthy are inferior. In spite of Sandy's protestations.

That doesn't explain Kenya moving though, does it. I really think it's the simple fact that the SA government have been generally shite and the Kenyans have been generally pretty good.

The UK also does not accept Kenyan vaccine certificates though. I don't know which countries accept the Kenyan vaccine certificates but it seems all countries accept the SA ones except for the UK.

You won't find any saffa on here who disagree that the SA government are a bunch of incompetent crooks with almost no exceptions but its still managed to fully vaccinate about 8 or 9 times more of its population than Kenya has. Kenya also does not come close to our ability to sequence, track and discover any potential new strains.

edit: good piece in The Times on SA remaining on the red list

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/travel/comme ... e-red-list

It's actually a disgraceful decision but even more so is the UK high commission in Pretoria putting out tweets containing fake covid information that serves to increase vaccine hesitancy in South Africa. It's a pity our government is so useless or apathetic about it that it won't bring them to task.

[Calculon]

I don't know what the justification is for not accepting some countries' vaccine certificates. Is there supposed to be some sort of risk that they are not genuine? Because the US vaccine certificates that I've seen are handwritten scraps of paper and they are apparently totally fine.

They accept South African passports and other documents.

That there is suddenly doubt cast on the ability of South Africa to regulate and control proof of vaccination is insulting and I'm inclined to feel it has its roots, if not in outright racism, certainly in the perception that the Nations listed as untrustworthy are inferior. In spite of Sandy's protestations.

I was vaccinated in Turkey and the health service's IT system here is probably more robust and advanced than the NHS one and produces EU-compatible vaccine certificates. It's not acceptable for the UK though.

In SA everyone who is vaccinated is entered on the
Government Electronic Vaccination Data System. You have to show your ID card or passport to get vaccinated as proof of identity. Happy to be corrected but it seems a fairly secure system.

[FalseBayFC]

The UK is now some 3/4 months into their third wave. The virus is embedded and endemic. What do they think they're keeping out? I'm a vaccinated believer but at this stage I reckon we drop all restrictions in countries where it is endemic. Aus, NZ are different stories. Unless we chase economic growth opportunities at full throttle we're going to see a lot of suffering down the road.

[Rinkals]

They accept South African passports and other documents.

That there is suddenly doubt cast on the ability of South Africa to regulate and control proof of vaccination is insulting and I'm inclined to feel it has its roots, if not in outright racism, certainly in the perception that the Nations listed as untrustworthy are inferior. In spite of Sandy's protestations.

I was vaccinated in Turkey and the health service's IT system here is probably more robust and advanced than the NHS one and produces EU-compatible vaccine certificates. It's not acceptable for the UK though.

In SA everyone who is vaccinated is entered on the
Government Electronic Vaccination Data System. You have to show your ID card or passport to get vaccinated as proof of identity. Happy to be corrected but it seems a fairly secure system.

Quite.

I referenced the term "picaninnies" above (which Sandy took exception to) because it is a term that Johnson has used in the past.

However, I don't think the UK has a similar database to track vaccinations (which, I believe, would be contrary to their data protection act) and their "track-and-trace" programme was hardly a success.

[Raggs]

I was vaccinated in Turkey and the health service's IT system here is probably more robust and advanced than the NHS one and produces EU-compatible vaccine certificates. It's not acceptable for the UK though.

In SA everyone who is vaccinated is entered on the
Government Electronic Vaccination Data System. You have to show your ID card or passport to get vaccinated as proof of identity. Happy to be corrected but it seems a fairly secure system.

Quite.

I referenced the term "picaninnies" above (which Sandy took exception to) because it is a term that Johnson has used in the past.

However, I don't think the UK has a similar database to track vaccinations (which, I believe, would be contrary to their data protection act) and their "track-and-trace" programme was hardly a success.

Anyone can get confirmation of their vaccination status through the NHS app.

[dpedin]

In SA everyone who is vaccinated is entered on the
Government Electronic Vaccination Data System. You have to show your ID card or passport to get vaccinated as proof of identity. Happy to be corrected but it seems a fairly secure system.

Quite.

I referenced the term "picaninnies" above (which Sandy took exception to) because it is a term that Johnson has used in the past.

However, I don't think the UK has a similar database to track vaccinations (which, I believe, would be contrary to their data protection act) and their "track-and-trace" programme was hardly a success.

Anyone can get confirmation of their vaccination status through the NHS app.

Depends on where you are in the UK and more difficult if you get vaccines in different countries in UK ie first in England and second in Scotland.

[FalseBayFC]

Loved the story emerging today from NZ about the KFC smugglers caught with NZD 100k and a bootload of fried chicken. I'd rather smoke meth than ingest a KFC Two-piece.

[Calculon]

The UK is now some 3/4 months into their third wave. The virus is embedded and endemic. What do they think they're keeping out? I'm a vaccinated believer but at this stage I reckon we drop all restrictions in countries where it is endemic. Aus, NZ are different stories. Unless we chase economic growth opportunities at full throttle we're going to see a lot of suffering down the road.

It looks like that's what the EU and USA and many other countries are doing, with the proviso that you need to be vaccinated. Not "Global Britain", but since Brexit they seem to have developed a pretty good knack of annoying their friends.

[Sandstorm]

Loved the story emerging today from NZ about the KFC smugglers caught with NZD 100k and a bootload of fried chicken. I'd rather smoke meth than ingest a KFC Two-piece.

Pffft! Naki's got more cash and chicken down the back of his sofa.

[tabascoboy]

The UK is now some 3/4 months into their third wave. The virus is embedded and endemic. What do they think they're keeping out? I'm a vaccinated believer but at this stage I reckon we drop all restrictions in countries where it is endemic. Aus, NZ are different stories. Unless we chase economic growth opportunities at full throttle we're going to see a lot of suffering down the road.

It looks like that's what the EU and USA and many other countries are doing, with the proviso that you need to be vaccinated. Not "Global Britain", but since Brexit they seem to have developed a pretty good knack of annoying their friends.

Well given that the default stance here is that: 1) anything the US does is great and to be followed; 2) anything that the EU does is evil and must be countered;

if the US and the EU do the same thing this leaves our glorious leaders in a such a quandary that they just do something to be different even if it follows no known logic pattern just because...

[Uncle fester]

New benchmark passed.
More people in USA have died of Covid than died of Spanish flu.

[salanya]

BBC health correspondent today congratulated the fact that we never had the big September Covid-boom that was expected 6 weeks ago.

Thereby totally ignoring that we've had well over 30k cases for pretty much every day since then, and that on average over 100 people are dying every day, with Covid the 3rd most common cause of death again in August, the highest it's been since March.

Not that everything is doom and gloom, and the vaccines are definitely doing their job, which is great and means that not everything in life has to be Covid-restricted anymore. But at the same time these infections are still very high, there are over 8000 people in hospital with Covid at the moment, the military are needed to help out the NHS in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and all of this is as we're only just coming out of Summer.

I just get frustrated how the Beeb have gone from full panic stations and wall-to-wall reporting, to nearly ignoring the whole situation (if I was cynical I would point out that this accelerated with the departure of Hancock and the arrival of Javid....). The UK must be one of the worst performing Western countries at the moment, especially considering that vaccination numbers are good. So how come these infections, hospitalisations and deaths are still so high? And why do they/we care so little about it?

[Hong Kong]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/21/us/ ... index.html

Surreal

[Uncle fester]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/21/us/ ... index.html

Surreal

"About 30 minutes in, our waitress comes over and she sits down next to me and she's like, 'Hey, so our manager is over there in the kitchen, and he is not as nice as I am so I came over here to talk to you and unfortunately, this is a political thing, but our manager does not believe in the mask. He's tired of being told what to do by, you know, politics in the country, and so you're going to need to take the mask off,"

So because he's tired of being told what to do, he's going to demand other people do what he wants them to do?
Mental.

[robmatic]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/21/us/ ... index.html

Surreal

"About 30 minutes in, our waitress comes over and she sits down next to me and she's like, 'Hey, so our manager is over there in the kitchen, and he is not as nice as I am so I came over here to talk to you and unfortunately, this is a political thing, but our manager does not believe in the mask. He's tired of being told what to do by, you know, politics in the country, and so you're going to need to take the mask off,"

So because he's tired of being told what to do, he's going to demand other people do what he wants them to do?
Mental.

Classic American authoritarian libertarian.

[Lemoentjie]

BBC health correspondent today congratulated the fact that we never had the big September Covid-boom that was expected 6 weeks ago.

Thereby totally ignoring that we've had well over 30k cases for pretty much every day since then, and that on average over 100 people are dying every day, with Covid the 3rd most common cause of death again in August, the highest it's been since March.

Not that everything is doom and gloom, and the vaccines are definitely doing their job, which is great and means that not everything in life has to be Covid-restricted anymore. But at the same time these infections are still very high, there are over 8000 people in hospital with Covid at the moment, the military are needed to help out the NHS in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and all of this is as we're only just coming out of Summer.

I just get frustrated how the Beeb have gone from full panic stations and wall-to-wall reporting, to nearly ignoring the whole situation (if I was cynical I would point out that this accelerated with the departure of Hancock and the arrival of Javid....). The UK must be one of the worst performing Western countries at the moment, especially considering that vaccination numbers are good. So how come these infections, hospitalisations and deaths are still so high? And why do they/we care so little about it?

What do you want them to do? Shut down a country of 60 million because 100 people die each day? Pro-lockdowners often lose sight of scales.

But at the same time these infections are still very high

Are they? 30k is 0.05% of 60 million. Who says 0.05% is very high?

You are lucky to be living in a vaccinated country. You are prepared to give up your freedoms to stop 100 people (with an average age > 80) from dying? For how long? How much longer would those people have lived in a world without Covid?

[salanya]

BBC health correspondent today congratulated the fact that we never had the big September Covid-boom that was expected 6 weeks ago.

Thereby totally ignoring that we've had well over 30k cases for pretty much every day since then, and that on average over 100 people are dying every day, with Covid the 3rd most common cause of death again in August, the highest it's been since March.

Not that everything is doom and gloom, and the vaccines are definitely doing their job, which is great and means that not everything in life has to be Covid-restricted anymore. But at the same time these infections are still very high, there are over 8000 people in hospital with Covid at the moment, the military are needed to help out the NHS in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and all of this is as we're only just coming out of Summer.

I just get frustrated how the Beeb have gone from full panic stations and wall-to-wall reporting, to nearly ignoring the whole situation (if I was cynical I would point out that this accelerated with the departure of Hancock and the arrival of Javid....). The UK must be one of the worst performing Western countries at the moment, especially considering that vaccination numbers are good. So how come these infections, hospitalisations and deaths are still so high? And why do they/we care so little about it?

What do you want them to do? Shut down a country of 60 million because 100 people die each day? Pro-lockdowners often lose sight of scales.

But at the same time these infections are still very high

Are they? 30k is 0.05% of 60 million. Who says 0.05% is very high?

You are lucky to be living in a vaccinated country. You are prepared to give up your freedoms to stop 100 people (with an average age > 80) from dying? For how long? How much longer would those people have lived in a world without Covid?

Good thing that you're a perceptive reader

If you read again you'll see that I'm not pushing for any sort of lockdown, so your anxious labelling is based on nothing, and incorrect.

I'm saying infections are high, based on other Western countries with similar vaccination rates (though you could just compare it to UK numbers at the end of spring, if you prefer).
I'm most familiar with the numbers in the Netherlands, which has over 17 million people (just under 4 times the UK population).
Where there are 500 people currently in Dutch hospitals, compared to the UK's 8000.
Dutch daily infection rates have been between 1300 and 2500 over the last month, whereas the UK numbers are between 26k and 38k daily infections.
As an UK citizen I would expect some research to understand why numbers are so much higher here, with similar vaccination rates and precaution measures.
And that's not to mention death rates. I'm not going to respond to your comments on that, apart from to say that it's not just people aged 80+ dying, and I imagine if it was your own parent/relative on their death bed you wouldn't be quite so dismissive of it.

But my original point is that the public messaging on this has gone a full 180 degrees, whereas numbers have actually been rising.
If the messaging was a bit more pressing on these numbers, perhaps more people would behave more cautiously still (just basic hand-washing and masks in public spaces), limiting infections, illness and deaths. Which in turn would prevent any return of previous measures, so if anything, I'm not a pro-lockdowner, I want to avoid any chance of lockdown.

[fishfoodie]

I'm going to go out on a limb; & guess that it's the boys maternal grandmother that's dying ... & I hope to God the lad is in his Mothers custody; because his Father isn't fit to own a dog.

A 12-year-old boy in the Dutch city of Groningen has won a court battle to get vaccinated against Covid-19 so that he can visit his dying grandmother, despite his father's objections.

A judge ruled the jab would reduce his chances of passing on any infection to the woman, who has advanced cancer.

Vaccines have been approved for Dutch 12-17-year-olds but under-17s need the consent of both parents.

Vaccine scepticism is increasing in the country.

Judge Bart Tromp of Groningen District Court said that the boy should be vaccinated promptly because his interests were more important than the father's concerns.

Court papers said the boy wanted to spend as much time as possible with his grandmother, who has metastatic lung cancer and is "in the last stages of her life".

Judge Tromp rejected arguments by the boy's father that vaccines were "in a test phase" and posed risks to reproductive organs, saying they had no scientific basis.

He also cited risks that, while children were less likely to be severely ill with the virus, they could develop long Covid.

The risk of infecting others was also lower, he said.

The boy's mother has supported his court action. The couple are divorced.

Dutch law says that if the parents cannot agree, a judge should rule in the best interests of the child.

[Rinkals]

don't be a twat, taking the vaccine is only going to give another boost to your immune system

Is it?

I don't have any problems with vaccination (apart from the crazy profit margins that Pfizer are putting on their product) and if I hadn't been previously infected, then a vaccination would be a less risky method of protection that infection.

Maybe I can just ask for 1 dose

Yes, of course it is

Ask for the single shot j and j vaccine


Edit: even if you don't feel you need to take the vaccine under the mistaken belief that it will not increase your protection against covid19, despite the mass of scientific evidence saying otherwise - the higher the percentage of South Africans vaccinated, the quicker the country can open up internationally, which will benefit millions of South Africans. So stop being a selfish twat like Wilson's Toffee and get yourself vaccinated

According to this, rather than damage and compromise the immune system as some rumours suggest, the vax makes you bullet proof.

In a study published online last month, Bieniasz and his colleagues found antibodies in these individuals that can strongly neutralize the six variants of concern tested, including delta and beta, as well as several other viruses related to SARS-CoV-2, including one in bats, two in pangolins and the one that caused the first coronavirus pandemic, SARS-CoV-1.

"This is being a bit more speculative, but I would also suspect that they would have some degree of protection against the SARS-like viruses that have yet to infect humans," Bieniasz says.

So who is capable of mounting this "superhuman" or "hybrid" immune response?

People who have had a "hybrid" exposure to the virus. Specifically, they were infected with the coronavirus in 2020 and then immunized with mRNA vaccines this year. "Those people have amazing responses to the vaccine," says virologist Theodora Hatziioannou at Rockefeller University, who also helped lead several of the studies. "I think they are in the best position to fight the virus. The antibodies in these people's blood can even neutralize SARS-CoV-1, the first coronavirus, which emerged 20 years ago. That virus is very, very different from SARS-CoV-2."

[Uncle fester]

I'm going to go out on a limb; & guess that it's the boys maternal grandmother that's dying ... & I hope to God the lad is in his Mothers custody; because his Father isn't fit to own a dog.

It's good netiquette to provide a link so it can be shared by others and provide clicks for the content provider.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58669918

[fishfoodie]

[fishfoodie]

Interesting situation now in Ireland.

We're now >90% fully vaccinated, ~92% with at least one jab; so that's >12 years olds & up.

For the last several weeks we've been running at ~1,400-1,500 daily positive tests; & there was a spike among kids immediately after the return to school; but when you look at the hospitalizations, the numbers are gradually decreasing, & the same in ICU. The link between weekly positive tests, & hospitalization rates has been broken.

It looks like when you get to >85% fully vaccinated, the number who get severe enough symptoms, to end up needing treatment, is low enough to start the opening up of businesses; & if you get above 90%, you really should stop looking at positive test (although still testing), but rather focus on how the health system is coping; & use your ICU capacity, & general level of hospitalizations, as the trigger to any lock downs.

This is all my amateur opinion; but as we knew all along; the key is getting as many people vaccinated as possible; & once you start to see link between positive tests, & hospitalizations broken, & you are running with enough ICU capacity to cope; you can start the unlocking process.

[Calculon]

Would think it unlikely many countries would be able to get over 90% vaccinated.