The Official English Rugby Thread

[Slick]

Can somebody point out what Tompkins did exactly to provoke that reaction?

It must have been very bad.

You’re an idiot

[Slick]

I just watched the McGuigan incident. Amazing restraint from Tompkins although it was noticeable that his "Sarries cheerbrag" and head patting set the lunatic off.

Got to say, just watched it myself and have come away very much on McGuigans side in this. All this head tapping and screaming in faces is a blight on the game, fuck them

While that's true, you can't go around judo throwing unresisting opposition players around because they annoyed you.

Sarries had picked up a penalty for all that gloaty bollocks earlier in the game, keeping your cool and allowing the ref to notice it means they could pick up more. As it is McGuigan did exactly what they want by rising to the bait and committing an undeniable offence and spectacle of himself.

Of course that’s true. Didn’t realise the ref was already onto it. They really have become a bit of a scummy club

[notfatcat]

Scummy club, scummy fans.

[SaintK]

Got to say, just watched it myself and have come away very much on McGuigans side in this. All this head tapping and screaming in faces is a blight on the game, fuck them

While that's true, you can't go around judo throwing unresisting opposition players around because they annoyed you.

Sarries had picked up a penalty for all that gloaty bollocks earlier in the game, keeping your cool and allowing the ref to notice it means they could pick up more. As it is McGuigan did exactly what they want by rising to the bait and committing an undeniable offence and spectacle of himself.

Of course that’s true. Didn’t realise the ref was already onto it. They really have become a bit of a scummy club

Tompkins comes over as a bit of a twat on the pitch both for Sarries and Wales with the head patting and verbals
Absolute stupidity from McGuigan mind you.
Sarries really didn't make the most of the man advantage

[Paddington Bear]

Tend to agree on head taps etc. What I would say is McGuigan is a professional, this is his job. One of us on a back club pitch is well within our rights to clock him. He must have known he was getting a red as soon as he did it. It was, also, no doubt disproportionate.

[inactionman]

Tend to agree on head taps etc. What I would say is McGuigan is a professional, this is his job. One of us on a back club pitch is well within our rights to clock him. He must have known he was getting a red as soon as he did it. It was, also, no doubt disproportionate.

I know it's a bit of a trope how bad behaviour in football has seeped down into amateur and kids' game, but I'd really like to see this (the had taps, goading etc) nipped in bud before it gets too far entrenched - pub football turned into an ordeal just as some people thought it was an excuse to slag off the ref and opposition for 90 minutes (them kicking lumps out of all and sundry didn't help either, a distinct but related problem)

If nothing else it looks spivvy, and I'm not sure provoking someone to lose their rag is in any way desirable at any level of the game.

Not to excuse McGuigan, even if provoked it was well over the top, but I really hate this smug-faced gloating.

[Margin__Walker]

Agree. Clearly Byron is well out of order here, but I really hate head tapping and goading on the pitch. Seems to happen a lot more these days and I'd love it not to just end up an accepted part of the game.

[sockwithaticket]

Until the powers that be decide to impose a crackdown on unsportsman like conduct the best way to stamp it out is not to rise to the bait. If it stops giving them an advantage, they'll stop using it as a tactic.

Easy to say from the confines of home rather than in the midst of a full bore pro game, of course.

[Margin__Walker]

Until the powers that be decide to impose a crackdown on unsportsman like conduct the best way to stamp it out is not to rise to the bait. If it stops giving them an advantage, they'll stop using it as a tactic.

Easy to say from the confines of home rather than in the midst of a full bore pro game, of course.

If you reverse pens for head taps, they'll also stop using it as a tactic tbf.

[sockwithaticket]

Until the powers that be decide to impose a crackdown on unsportsman like conduct the best way to stamp it out is not to rise to the bait. If it stops giving them an advantage, they'll stop using it as a tactic.

Easy to say from the confines of home rather than in the midst of a full bore pro game, of course.

If you reverse pens for head taps, they'll also stop using it as a tactic tbf.

Oh yeah, but that requires the officials to play ball and so far their inclination to do such things has been erratic, so, from a team perspective, the only thing you can do is try to ignore it.

It wasn't a reversal as I recall, but Sale did get a pen for Sarries' carry on earlier in this game.

[Kawazaki]

ALL teams do the head taps and the on-field sledging. Saracens are no worse, you just think they are because they have probably just beaten your team.

[inactionman]

ALL teams do the head taps and the on-field sledging. Saracens are no worse, you just think they are because they have probably just beaten your team.

I'm not sure anyone is claiming they are any worse than nay other team.

Although they are the worst.

[Kawazaki]

ALL teams do the head taps and the on-field sledging. Saracens are no worse, you just think they are because they have probably just beaten your team.

I'm not sure anyone is claiming they are any worse than nay other team.

Although they are the worst.

Any team with Ellis Genge in it is the worst.

[JM2K6]

So Eddie has a new book out, called "Leadership". This entire article is designed to piss me off:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... -breakdown

Is it a good look, for example, to talk at length about how crucial it is to treat modern players with more individual sensitivity these days and then to publicly castigate Worcester’s Ollie Lawrence for the crime of not training as relentlessly as the great Beauden Barrett and attracting a few headlines as a possible successor to Manu Tuilagi? “He’s still a kid, only 21, but the way that some of the media raves about him you would think he’s already assured of becoming one of the best players in the world. He might do that, one day, but his attitude was not hungry or disciplined enough.”

...

“I sometimes go harder on the younger players because I want to … make them understand that they are entitled to nothing,” he writes, reflecting on the lessons of England’s uneasy 2021 Six Nations campaign. “England lost their way partly because of a creeping sense of entitlement which ate away at the core values and principles we had established. Complacency corrupts the soul of the team. When that happens, the core of the team cracks open and you have to start again.”

...

“We will play some lovely rugby in the next year or so,” he forecasts at one point. “But I know that by the time the World Cup begins in 2023, we will revert to more pragmatic rugby.”

For fucks sake. Stop huffing your own farts, Eddie.

[sockwithaticket]

“England lost their way partly because of a creeping sense of entitlement which ate away at the core values and principles we had established. Complacency corrupts the soul of the team. When that happens, the core of the team cracks open and you have to start again.”

Sure, Eddie. Couldn't possibly be that you fucked the game plan or selection.

Always a possibility, of course, but perhaps there is also an argument that Jones’s blanket suspicion of youthful prodigies is increasingly dated and counterproductive? Is it truly enlightened leadership to cast a gifted playmaker such as Marcus Smith as a potentially spoiled kid or to invest in him unblinkingly? And is there any such creature, more generally, as a lazy modern-day England rugby international? Every single one, in my experience, is acutely conscious of the stiff competition and the need to work his or her socks off. They also play a sport in which half-heartedness, whether for club or country, is not an option. When Jones suggests he has found it tricky to pinpoint “a coherent English identity” it raises another question: is he too swift to stereotype certain types of people – players, colleagues, the media – before he trusts them as individuals?

All very salient points.

“But I know that by the time the World Cup begins in 2023, we will revert to more pragmatic rugby.”

Not surprising, but still a bit depressing to see it in black and white. What's the point in practising the 'lovely rugby' if we're not going to try and make it work when it matters?

[SaintK]

So Eddie has a new book out, called "Leadership". This entire article is designed to piss me off:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... -breakdown

Is it a good look, for example, to talk at length about how crucial it is to treat modern players with more individual sensitivity these days and then to publicly castigate Worcester’s Ollie Lawrence for the crime of not training as relentlessly as the great Beauden Barrett and attracting a few headlines as a possible successor to Manu Tuilagi? “He’s still a kid, only 21, but the way that some of the media raves about him you would think he’s already assured of becoming one of the best players in the world. He might do that, one day, but his attitude was not hungry or disciplined enough.”

...

“I sometimes go harder on the younger players because I want to … make them understand that they are entitled to nothing,” he writes, reflecting on the lessons of England’s uneasy 2021 Six Nations campaign. “England lost their way partly because of a creeping sense of entitlement which ate away at the core values and principles we had established. Complacency corrupts the soul of the team. When that happens, the core of the team cracks open and you have to start again.”

...

“We will play some lovely rugby in the next year or so,” he forecasts at one point. “But I know that by the time the World Cup begins in 2023, we will revert to more pragmatic rugby.”

For fucks sake. Stop huffing your own farts, Eddie.

Nice man management.......................not!!!

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah, I doubt it's anything Eddie won't have told Lawrence directly, same with the stuff about why Maro might not be suited to captaincy, but I doubt either player will be thrilled about having the content of those discussions put out into the public arena.

[Kawazaki]

He's a dinosaur.

[FalseBayFC]

Agree. Clearly Byron is well out of order here, but I really hate head tapping and goading on the pitch. Seems to happen a lot more these days and I'd love it not to just end up an accepted part of the game.

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

[SaintK]

So, Handre Pollard to Leicester Tigers if this story is accurate

“The word on the street, if you wish to believe it, is that Pollard is a done deal and we ( Leicester Tigers) will be announcing him either Wednesday or Thursday this week and I’ve had that from two different sources. The two people who have advised me that it’s happening are pretty trustworthy guys, they’re not someone to billy bulls**t on this sort of stuff. If they’ve heard a whisper themselves, I trust them if they think there’s enough truth in it to do it and it’s not just mindless gossip,”

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport ... evealed/

[geordie_6]

He's a dinosaur.

Think even that may be too modern...

[sockwithaticket]

There's also surely a fairly risible double standard in telling a young kid like Smith not to get distracted while Eddie does a ton of coaching consultancy and puts out another, admittedly ghost-written, book.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's almost like some people are going to complain about Eddie regardless. As regards Smith and Lawrence I don't know how they'll take the comments from Eddie, for sure Eddie isn't everyone's cup of tea, but some players (including some he's massively harsh on) absolutely love the fella.

And yes Eddie does other stuff, but without doubt we don't need to worry that Eddie isn't putting in a shift when it comes to his actual England role. You might contend his efforts are misplaced, but to query whether he's making sufficient effort and allowing himself to be distracted seems odd. I suppose one might try to wrangle it into some contention he's being hypocritical, but that's really back to some people are just going to complain about Eddie.

[Kawazaki]

It's almost like some people are going to complain about Eddie regardless. As regards Smith and Lawrence I don't know how they'll take the comments from Eddie, for sure Eddie isn't everyone's cup of tea, but some players (including some he's massively harsh on) absolutely love the fella.

And yes Eddie does other stuff, but without doubt we don't need to worry that Eddie isn't putting in a shift when it comes to his actual England role. You might contend his efforts are misplaced, but to query whether he's making sufficient effort and allowing himself to be distracted seems odd. I suppose one might try to wrangle it into some contention he's being hypocritical, but that's really back to some people are just going to complain about Eddie.

Wait until Jones is out of English rugby for good. Then you'll get the truth.

The players are actually far more professional than he is.

[Tichtheid]

McGuigan gets three weeks suspension.

Bit harsh if you ask me.

[Kawazaki]

McGuigan gets three weeks suspension.

Bit harsh if you ask me.

It's less than some players get for tip tackles ffs.

[Niegs]

Agree. Clearly Byron is well out of order here, but I really hate head tapping and goading on the pitch. Seems to happen a lot more these days and I'd love it not to just end up an accepted part of the game.

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

Without the punch, ice hockey has something McGuigan could have done:

[SaintK]

McGuigan gets three weeks suspension.

Bit harsh if you ask me.

It's less than some players get for tip tackles ffs.

Six weeks reduced to three.

[Kawazaki]

McGuigan gets three weeks suspension.

Bit harsh if you ask me.

It's less than some players get for tip tackles ffs.

Six weeks reduced to three.

Haha, how was it not reckless?!

[JM2K6]

It's almost like some people are going to complain about Eddie regardless. As regards Smith and Lawrence I don't know how they'll take the comments from Eddie, for sure Eddie isn't everyone's cup of tea, but some players (including some he's massively harsh on) absolutely love the fella.

And yes Eddie does other stuff, but without doubt we don't need to worry that Eddie isn't putting in a shift when it comes to his actual England role. You might contend his efforts are misplaced, but to query whether he's making sufficient effort and allowing himself to be distracted seems odd. I suppose one might try to wrangle it into some contention he's being hypocritical, but that's really back to some people are just going to complain about Eddie.

That's a load of bollocks. "one might try to wrangle it into some contention he's being hypocritical"? It's blatant hypocrisy. Practically the dictionary definition of it. And Eddie writing a book while still in charge and slagging off players and generally bemoaning the state of English rugby, while also refusing to accept the obvious mistakes he made a year ago, is going to make most people except wilful contrarians pretty miffed.

[Hal Jordan]

Agree. Clearly Byron is well out of order here, but I really hate head tapping and goading on the pitch. Seems to happen a lot more these days and I'd love it not to just end up an accepted part of the game.

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

The NFL has a rule, Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Taunting), for this, and it's very much been enforced of late. Guys standing over guys lying prone in order to mock their fallen opponent gets a yellow flag and penalty yardage these days.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Agree. Clearly Byron is well out of order here, but I really hate head tapping and goading on the pitch. Seems to happen a lot more these days and I'd love it not to just end up an accepted part of the game.

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

The NFL has a rule, Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Taunting), for this, and it's very much been enforced of late. Guys standing over guys lying prone in order to mock their fallen opponent gets a yellow flag and penalty yardage these days.

That would be hilarious the first time they enforced that in Rugby.! Penalty to Saracens on the oppo's tryline. The whooping, clapping and hollering would have them defending a 5m scrum - and that's just Maro.

[Margin__Walker]

I think you'd definitely draw a line between what Maro does (fine if a touch annoying), and someone that's actively taunting an opposition player.

[Paddington Bear]

Agree. Clearly Byron is well out of order here, but I really hate head tapping and goading on the pitch. Seems to happen a lot more these days and I'd love it not to just end up an accepted part of the game.

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

The NFL has a rule, Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Taunting), for this, and it's very much been enforced of late. Guys standing over guys lying prone in order to mock their fallen opponent gets a yellow flag and penalty yardage these days.

The same law exists in rugby IIRC. Certainly when I used to ref I pinged a junior side for repeatedly screaming at the oppo's hooker. When I explained why I'd given the pen their coach called me a cunt. Good times.

[mos_eisely_]

It's less than some players get for tip tackles ffs.

Six weeks reduced to three.

Haha, how was it not reckless?!

Because it was intentional

[Kawazaki]

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

The NFL has a rule, Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Taunting), for this, and it's very much been enforced of late. Guys standing over guys lying prone in order to mock their fallen opponent gets a yellow flag and penalty yardage these days.

The same law exists in rugby IIRC. Certainly when I used to ref I pinged a junior side for repeatedly screaming at the oppo's hooker. When I explained why I'd given the pen their coach called me a cunt. Good times.

Everyone in rugby should know that you can only tell a ref that you're thinking he's a cunt, you can't actually tell him.

[Niegs]

That and subs on the pitch celebrating tries are two of my pet peeves. Its a US pro sport thing. Particularly the NFL with the "in your face" antics. Maybe they could fine match fees or something like they do with bowlers in cricket who do the unsportsmanly send off.

The NFL has a rule, Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Taunting), for this, and it's very much been enforced of late. Guys standing over guys lying prone in order to mock their fallen opponent gets a yellow flag and penalty yardage these days.

That would be hilarious the first time they enforced that in Rugby.! Penalty to Saracens on the oppo's tryline. The whooping, clapping and hollering would have them defending a 5m scrum - and that's just Maro.

I watch a youtube channel that puts up highlights from English schoolboy matches. Not so much the actual head tapping, but the whooping and gesturing even during tries (okay, fair, they're teens) and penalties (ugh...) seems to be more common there. I never used to be a "just run back to half with minimal celebration" type traditionalist, but the extreme reactions now are really annoying my growing old man sensibilities.

[petej]

Looks like it will be Pollard replacing ford at tigers.
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... by-6284600

[Niegs]

Looks like it will be Pollard replacing ford at tigers.
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... by-6284600

Freddie Burns right now...

[Paddington Bear]

The NFL has a rule, Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Taunting), for this, and it's very much been enforced of late. Guys standing over guys lying prone in order to mock their fallen opponent gets a yellow flag and penalty yardage these days.

That would be hilarious the first time they enforced that in Rugby.! Penalty to Saracens on the oppo's tryline. The whooping, clapping and hollering would have them defending a 5m scrum - and that's just Maro.

I watch a youtube channel that puts up highlights from English schoolboy matches. Not so much the actual head tapping, but the whooping and gesturing even during tries (okay, fair, they're teens) and penalties (ugh...) seems to be more common there. I never used to be a "just run back to half with minimal celebration" type traditionalist, but the extreme reactions now are really annoying my growing old man sensibilities.

I think some of this is an evolution in how players get under each other's skin. Given pros can't get away with blatant cheap shots anymore, they've looked for another way to do it. Similarly violence just isn't accepted in the same way as maybe it was in the past across the game. We all know the subs are running in to make sure the oppo can hear the whooping as much as anything.