The Official English Rugby Thread

[Raggs]

Telegraph has Genge back to Bristol in the summer.

WOW! thats a huge kick in the teeth for Leicester given they just made him captain.

They probably made him captain to try and keep him. He's apparently going for family reasons. He's been one of the more outspoken players who recognise that there is no loyalty in the professional game, as much as people like to romanticise about it.

[Kawazaki]

He's been one of the more outspoken players

He's a gobshite if that's what you mean.

There's plenty of players who stay loyal to a single club. You'll find many of them employed at clubs that have won the most trophies in the last decade.

[petej]

He's been one of the more outspoken players

He's a gobshite if that's what you mean.

There's plenty of players who stay loyal to a single club. You'll find many of them employed at clubs that have won the most trophies in the last decade.

I suspect some of the sarries players "business arrangements" would be difficult to untangle.

Family circumstances can change quickly and fair enough if genge feels he is required to support them.

[Kawazaki]

He's been one of the more outspoken players

He's a gobshite if that's what you mean.

There's plenty of players who stay loyal to a single club. You'll find many of them employed at clubs that have won the most trophies in the last decade.

I suspect some of the sarries players "business arrangements" would be difficult to untangle.

Family circumstances can change quickly and fair enough if genge feels he is required to support them.

A player tied up in complex arrangements to a club unconnected to rugby would be stupid. Unless you think that the more labyrinthine a player's contract is the more likely it is that they will remain in league-winning form throughout their contract tenure? Which would also be stupid.

[SaintK]

So Jonny Hill to Sale next season confirmed

Exeter have lost a second Test level lock this Monday, England second row Jonny Hill revealing that he has signed for Sale for the 2022/23 season just hours after it was confirmed that Scotland lock Sam Skinner, Hill’s engine room club colleague at Sandy Park, would leave next summer for Edinburgh. The transfer of the 27-year-old Hill was described as a long-term deal without Sale specifying the length of the contract agreed that will take the 2021 Lions tourist north to Manchester from Devon.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/its-ha ... for-sale/

[sockwithaticket]

Sam Skinner also confirmed off to Edinburgh. Both rumoured as done deals a couple of weeks ago, leaves Exeter light at lock.

[Bullet]

Sam Skinner also confirmed off to Edinburgh. Both rumoured as done deals a couple of weeks ago, leaves Exeter light at lock.

Been told that Jonny Gray returning to Glasgow too. Don't expect much from Exeter next year.

If they need to let 3 internationals leave to meet the reduced cap what are other clubs doing?

[sockwithaticket]

Sam Skinner also confirmed off to Edinburgh. Both rumoured as done deals a couple of weeks ago, leaves Exeter light at lock.

Been told that Jonny Gray returning to Glasgow too. Don't expect much from Exeter next year.

If they need to let 3 internationals leave to meet the reduced cap what are other clubs doing?

Sale for example, while they're bringing in Ford, are losing McGinty and are rumoured to be offloading almost all of their South African contingent - de Jager, van Rensburg, the du Preez twins, van der Merwe and Oosthuizen.

A lot of clubs got players to sign deals before the 19/20 season expired which meant those deals would only count 75% towards the reduced cap

Also have to consider that there are imminent rules focused on further increasing EQP numbers, so if clubs are looking to trim the wage bill then a couple of Scottish internationals is a good place to start.

[Bullet]

Yes read about De Jager returning but that's over half of the starting pack! Guess Sale will take a while to rebuild aswell.

Google came up with a comment from Baxter that he was surprised players wouldn't accept paycuts

[Kawazaki]

Google came up with a comment from Baxter that he was surprised players wouldn't accept paycuts

I sometimes get the impression that Rob Baxter has never stepped foot outside of Devon.

[Brazil]

It's a great signing, though if the rumours are true about the Saffas, particularly the twins, then there's going to be a huge amount of changes. What's clear is that Sanderson is building the team he wants rather than the one he inherited, and the increased focus on English players and the academy is IMHO a good thing.

Of the Saffas going I think JRVR and the twins will be the biggest losses, if those rumours are true. Faf obviously is class, but we only see him for a third of the season, and Ford arriving will change how we play in the halves anyway. Lood hasn't really paid off though I think he's magnificent when he gets a run of games under his belt.

One things for sure, something excitings happening in Salford...

[geordie_6]

Bruce Craig to step down as Bath chairman, to be replaced by Ed Griffiths. Changing at the end of this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59739976

[SaintK]

Bruce Craig to step down as Bath chairman, to be replaced by Ed Griffiths. Changing at the end of this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59739976

Should imagine Tarquin and Hooper will be looking over their shoulders if the results don't start happening ion the New Year

[geordie_6]

Bruce Craig to step down as Bath chairman, to be replaced by Ed Griffiths. Changing at the end of this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59739976

Should imagine Tarquin and Hooper will be looking over their shoulders if the results don't start happening ion the New Year

Shouldn't even be given that much grace, they have turned what should be a decent Bath squad into an absolute joke.

[Raggs]

So Ed Griffiths decision, after Bath appointed him as a short term consultant, is that Ed Griffiths should be the CEO.

I'd love to be able to blag that sort of consulting role

[Kawazaki]

It's remarkable how many fans of different clubs all claim to hate Saracens yet so many of the other Premiership clubs are keen to appoint ex-Saracens management and copy the Saracens model.

[SaintK]

It's remarkable how many fans of different clubs all claim to hate Saracens yet so many of the other Premiership clubs are keen to appoint ex-Saracens management and copy the Saracens model.

I don't "hate" Sarries but who else has become chairman of another Prem club and other than Borthwick (via England) and Sanderson who else is a head coach and DoR?

[Mahoney]

Paul Gustard was a tremendous success at Quins. Been all downhill since he left.

[sockwithaticket]

Paul Gustard was a tremendous success at Quins. Been all downhill since he left.

Anyone aware of how he's faring with Zebre?

[SaintK]

Bruce Craig to step down as Bath chairman, to be replaced by Ed Griffiths. Changing at the end of this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59739976

Should imagine Tarquin and Hooper will be looking over their shoulders if the results don't start happening ion the New Year

Interesting take on the move from Andy Goode. I'd have thought James Dyson would be the obvious major investor. Spends enough sponsoring Bath!

[petej]

It's remarkable how many fans of different clubs all claim to hate Saracens yet so many of the other Premiership clubs are keen to appoint ex-Saracens management and copy the Saracens model.

I don't think many people have questioned the quality of the coaching at Saracens. Saracens cheated for years, it was very obvious when looking at ins and outs and Wray thought he was above the rules. He bullied the other teams into cap increases pushing clubs towards being unsustainable. The amount of debt written off by Wray was huge for a rugby team. I thought Saracens were lucky not to have premiership titles stripped.

People rate guardiola and Tuchel and would happily have them at their club but can still dislike the financial doping and other distasteful aspects of the owners of these clubs.

[Kawazaki]

It's remarkable how many fans of different clubs all claim to hate Saracens yet so many of the other Premiership clubs are keen to appoint ex-Saracens management and copy the Saracens model.

I don't "hate" Sarries but who else has become chairman of another Prem club and other than Borthwick (via England) and Sanderson who else is a head coach and DoR?

Your 'apart from' is 25% of the league!

I like to think that Mark McCall was pissing himself laughing when Quins hired Gustard as their no.1.

[Raggs]

Are we counting Borthwick as Sarries? He was at Bath longer as a player, and I don't think he was ever a coach at Sarries? Seems a bit of a stretch.

[SaintK]

Are we counting Borthwick as Sarries? He was at Bath longer as a player, and I don't think he was ever a coach at Sarries? Seems a bit of a stretch.

It is a bit!!!
He did some coaching at Sarries but was in Japan with Eddie Jones from about 2012 through to the 2015 RWC. He had agreed to join Bristol as forwards coach but was nabbed by Eddie to join his coaching team.

[Raggs]

Are we counting Borthwick as Sarries? He was at Bath longer as a player, and I don't think he was ever a coach at Sarries? Seems a bit of a stretch.

It is a bit!!!
He did some coaching at Sarries but was in Japan with Eddie Jones from about 2012 through to the 2015 RWC. He had agreed to join Bristol as forwards coach but was nabbed by Eddie to join his coaching team.

I think it's just another instance of if someone has done well, and they have an association with Sarries, it was obviously down to Sarries.

[inactionman]

Bruce Craig to step down as Bath chairman, to be replaced by Ed Griffiths. Changing at the end of this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59739976

Should imagine Tarquin and Hooper will be looking over their shoulders if the results don't start happening ion the New Year

Interesting take on the move from Andy Goode. I'd have thought James Dyson would be the obvious major investor. Spends enough sponsoring Bath!

Dyson rumours circling for a while. Insert joke about Bath sucking.

[Kawazaki]

What is the disparity between the new/incoming Premiership salary cap and the sorts of numbers the French clubs pay in salaries?

And the Irish provinces too for that matter.

[sockwithaticket]

What is the disparity between the new/incoming Premiership salary cap and the sorts of numbers the French clubs pay in salaries?

And the Irish provinces too for that matter.

Top14 and ProD2 are currently 11.3 million euros. Read an article a couple of days ago that said they're looking to bring it down to 10.

[Kawazaki]

What is the disparity between the new/incoming Premiership salary cap and the sorts of numbers the French clubs pay in salaries?

And the Irish provinces too for that matter.

Top14 and ProD2 are currently 11.3 million euros. Read an article a couple of days ago that said they're looking to bring it down to 10.

So the Premiership clubs will be operating on or around about 50-60% of the budget of the T14 plus the Irish teams?

[SaintK]

Some potential good news for Bath

Potential redevelopment at Bath Rugby's home ground could take place after a court ruled the 1922 Covenant was no longer enforceable.
The Court of Appeal ruled yesterday (21 December) that the document - which has prevented any changes being made to the ground - can't stop redevelopment any longer.
The 1922 Covenant was drawn up between Francis William Forester, Brinsley John Hamilton Fitzgerald, Arthur Brinsley Fitzgerald and The Bath and Country Recreation Ground Company Ltd which imposed covenants on the Rec which could, if valid, stop development on the land.
Bath Rugby's lawyers had challenged the covenant in 2018, arguing that it was not enforceable.
The latest ruling provides the certainty needed to bring forward comprehensive plans for a new stadium at the Rec and work on design proposals which will re-commence in the New Year.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2 ... -ruling

[FalseBayFC]

This Torygraph article is behind a paywall but has made me curious. What does the counter-caterpillar ruck tactic exactly?

[FalseBayFC]

No worries. Found the article.

https://archive.ph/InYmO

[Bullet]

This Torygraph article is behind a paywall but has made me curious. What does the counter-caterpillar ruck tactic exactly?

Imagine the defensive legally forming their own ruck catapillar which then curves round so that the player at the back of the ruck is closer to the opposition's scrum-half making a charge down easier.

[FalseBayFC]

This Torygraph article is behind a paywall but has made me curious. What does the counter-caterpillar ruck tactic exactly?

Imagine the defensive legally forming their own ruck catapillar which then curves round so that the player at the back of the ruck is closer to the opposition's scrum-half making a charge down easier.

Thanks. I worked it out from the gifs. So they're calling it the ruck crab.

[robmatic]

This Torygraph article is behind a paywall but has made me curious. What does the counter-caterpillar ruck tactic exactly?

Saracens were trying this against Edinburgh the other week and it didn't actually look very effective.

[Raggs]

It works well to put extra pressure on, but the ref needs to understand it. Saw a euro game where clearly the ref wasn't quite sure, and therefore it didn't work well. However it's been squashed now.

Annoying that they squash the counter to the caterpillar, but not the caterpillar itself.

[SaintK]

So much for the rumours about them heading to FRance then!

England internationals Billy and Mako Vunipola have both signed new contracts at Saracens, it was announced Friday.

The brothers have been key figures in the success of the north London side during the past decade.

The English Premiership club did not reveal the length of either No.8 Billy or prop forward Mako’s new contracts but Mark McCall, Saracens’ director of rugby, said: “Everyone involved with Saracens will be thrilled that Mako and Billy have chosen to extend their time at the club.

[sockwithaticket]

Always thought the rumours were bollocks, tbh. Unless Eddie had flat out told them they have no chance of getting in the England team, there's no way they would give up on going to the next World Cup.

[Ovals]

It works well to put extra pressure on, but the ref needs to understand it. Saw a euro game where clearly the ref wasn't quite sure, and therefore it didn't work well. However it's been squashed now.

Annoying that they squash the counter to the caterpillar, but not the caterpillar itself.

One thing they could do is not allow any additional players to join a ruck once the ref has called 'use it'. They should also enforce the 5 sec rule far more rigorously.

[notfatcat]

I think the 5 sec rule works well enough that I don't think there's a need to change. While some 9s take the piss a bit on some occasions it's also obvious that refs' calls are not always consistent. I think there's a good balance right now.