Quitting the bottle

[Harveys]

The largest, most rigorous independent study on Alcoholics Anonymous to date shows that AA can help people get sober, stay sober, drink less, and suffer fewer negative consequences of drinking, all while keeping health care costs down. Watch scientists John Kelly (Harvard/MGH) and Keith Humphreys (Stanford/VA) discuss their findings (published 3/11/20 by the Cochrane Collaborative), with commentary from psychologist Gabrielle Jones.

[Kiwias]

The largest, most rigorous independent study on Alcoholics Anonymous to date shows that AA can help people get sober, stay sober, drink less, and suffer fewer negative consequences of drinking, all while keeping health care costs down. Watch scientists John Kelly (Harvard/MGH) and Keith Humphreys (Stanford/VA) discuss their findings (published 3/11/20 by the Cochrane Collaborative), with commentary from psychologist Gabrielle Jones.

Thanks for posting that link. All the comments in it about AA apply to the self-help group I attend. It differs from AA in that there is no sponsor system or anything similar to the 12 Steps but the concepts of helping each other, being role models, being community based, and offering unquestioning and non-judgmental support are all the same.

The journey continues and life is good.

[Harveys]

I thought It may be of use to someone in two minds about AA or the such.

[Kiwias]

I thought It may be of use to someone in two minds about AA or the such.

Absolutely. It is very persuasive, in a very calm and measured manner.

[Kiwias]

While idling away some time flicking through YouTube videos, I came across this one of Eric Clapton (yeah, that one) talking about his alcoholism. He is pretty relaxed and quite funny.

[Kiwias]

It has been too long since I last posted here but I came across a very interesting article in the New Yorker about non-alcoholic beverages. It is quite long but, as they say, it packs quite a punch.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021 ... =TNY_Daily

One piece I felt on first reading that I must take issue with is this, where the author discusses what we lose by deciding not to drink alcohol again. But on second thoughts, perhaps his comments must be viewed through the prism of his have been sober for only five years or so. My experience is that this becomes less of a problem (or even no problem at all) with more years under the belt, meaning that your friends and acquaintances are totally accepting of your decision.

So, no more interviews in bars. No bars at all. No dinner parties where adults are drinking, and no children’s parties, either—they make ideal day-drinking affairs. I could manage a meal in a restaurant, but if anyone proposed a toast I felt as if I were inviting bad luck to the table by raising my glass of water. No professional events involving alcohol, namely book parties, where you could once find me by the bar. Even watching sports on TV was a visual and auditory minefield of ads featuring foaming beer manes and streams of whiskey splashing on the rocks. Maintaining abstinence in an alcohol-soaked society can feel like serving a medieval sentence of banishmen

[Slick]

Thanks Kiwas, very good and relevant article, for me.

I stopped about a month ago again and have been really enjoying exploring AF beers. There are some brilliant German and Belgian ones and just found a Scottish one, Jump Ship, which does a good IPA.

AF beer is a hot topic on the app I’m using with a lot of people wary of the slippery slope it might bring. For me it’s really helping for a variety of reasons although I’m limiting them to weekends - in saying that I had a stressful day yesterday and sat out in the garden with one.

I think the main reason for drinking them for me is that it creates that line between week/ weekend, work/my time. I also drink a lot of water during the day and want something different in the evening but not into fizzy drinks - also they have far fewer calories and sugar etc.

It also does make it easier when with people who are drinking, both for them and me. I do feel a bit awkward sitting at a BBQ with a glass of water but absolutely no problem with an AF beer in my hand. I think you might be right that this feeling might diminish with time but if it helps at the moment why wouldn’t someone drink them. As things stand today I’m genuinely much happier drinking 3 or 4 AF beers when with mates than going back to beer and wine and feeling shit for the next couple of days.

[Kiwias]

Thanks Kiwas, very good and relevant article, for me.

I stopped about a month ago again and have been really enjoying exploring AF beers. There are some brilliant German and Belgian ones and just found a Scottish one, Jump Ship, which does a good IPA.

AF beer is a hot topic on the app I’m using with a lot of people wary of the slippery slope it might bring. For me it’s really helping for a variety of reasons although I’m limiting them to weekends - in saying that I had a stressful day yesterday and sat out in the garden with one.

I think the main reason for drinking them for me is that it creates that line between week/ weekend, work/my time. I also drink a lot of water during the day and want something different in the evening but not into fizzy drinks - also they have far fewer calories and sugar etc.

It also does make it easier when with people who are drinking, both for them and me. I do feel a bit awkward sitting at a BBQ with a glass of water but absolutely no problem with an AF beer in my hand. I think you might be right that this feeling might diminish with time but if it helps at the moment why wouldn’t someone drink them. As things stand today I’m genuinely much happier drinking 3 or 4 AF beers when with mates than going back to beer and wine and feeling shit for the next couple of days.

I am not the ideal person to discuss the pros and cons of AF beers as there were basically none in the first several years of my sobriety and by the time there were decent AF brews out there, I was totally comfortable with having tonic water or something similar while others around me were boozing.

Basically, if it is working for you at the moment, that is good. You seem clearly aware of where you are with booze and that is the ideal situation. The only comment you made that sounds a wee alarm is this, as it sounds a wee bit like giving yourself a justification that you and I both know is something we did all too often when drinking.

I’m limiting them to weekends - in saying that I had a stressful day yesterday and sat out in the garden with one.

Rock on!

[mat the expat]

I remember, when not drinking due to medication, that trying to drink more than 2 pints of anything other than beer was impossible.

It's weird what Alcohol does to your tastebuds/sense of fullness

[Slick]

Yup, I was pretty conscious when writing that bit how it sounded, but I guess it was part of that process of drawing a line between my work day and family evening.

You are right though of course, the alcohol brain is a devious wee cunt but I think I am in a better place to recognise that now

[Ymx]

I’ve not touched AF beers having had a period before when I used them to cut back. Also noting the difference between the ones 0.5% and 0.0% both called AF.

Now as I really enjoyed sipping something after work especially, I found it was important to find something which was not water. And so I could enjoy it in litres each evening. I had found something I liked, ironically it was a cheaper brand. Tesco sparkling water (white grape and blackberry), I’d drink litres of (low in real sugar). But the driver issue over here has meant it’s not stocked. Grrr !!!

I couldn’t drink lemonade or coke or things like that, far too harsh.

Right now I’m quite enjoying sparkling water with added dash of cordial (bottled green is really really good with sparkling)

https://www.bottlegreendrinks.com/cordials/

And it’s not really very sweet at all. In supermarkets.

[mat the expat]

I’ve not touched AF beers having had a period before when I used them to cut back. Also noting the difference between the ones 0.5% and 0.0% both called AF.

Now as I really enjoyed sipping something after work especially, I found it was important to find something which was not water. And so I could enjoy it in litres each evening. I had found something I liked, ironically it was a cheaper brand. Tesco sparkling water (white grape and blackberry), I’d drink litres of (low in real sugar). But the driver issue over here has meant it’s not stocked. Grrr !!!

I couldn’t drink lemonade or coke or things like that, far too harsh.

Right now I’m quite enjoying sparkling water with added dash of cordial (bottled green is really really good with sparkling)

https://www.bottlegreendrinks.com/cordials/

And it’s not really very sweet at all. In supermarkets.

I buy the bottles of Fresh Lemon/Lime juice and add that to sodastream water

[Kiwias]

Yup, I was pretty conscious when writing that bit how it sounded, but I guess it was part of that process of drawing a line between my work day and family evening.

You are right though of course, the alcohol brain is a devious wee cunt but I think I am in a better place to recognise that now

As Craig Johnson put it, the advice he was given when leaving rehab was that he was in for a lifetime of vigilance.

[Kiwias]

I’ve not touched AF beers having had a period before when I used them to cut back. Also noting the difference between the ones 0.5% and 0.0% both called AF.

Now as I really enjoyed sipping something after work especially, I found it was important to find something which was not water. And so I could enjoy it in litres each evening. I had found something I liked, ironically it was a cheaper brand. Tesco sparkling water (white grape and blackberry), I’d drink litres of (low in real sugar). But the driver issue over here has meant it’s not stocked. Grrr !!!

I couldn’t drink lemonade or coke or things like that, far too harsh.

Right now I’m quite enjoying sparkling water with added dash of cordial (bottled green is really really good with sparkling)

https://www.bottlegreendrinks.com/cordials/

And it’s not really very sweet at all. In supermarkets.

Because I work at home, I don't have that desire to sip something after work but what I enjoy with dinner is sparkling mineral water with a slice or two of fruit in it. Lemon is good but I really love kiwifruit.

[mat the expat]

Because I work at home, I don't have that desire to sip something after work but what I enjoy with dinner is sparkling mineral water with a slice or two of fruit in it. Lemon is good but I really love kiwifruit.

No Yuzu?

[Slick]

The soda stream is a godsend, love it.

My usual start of the evening tipple is a mix with Belvoir Farm ginger cordial which tastes remarkably like ginger beer but without all the sugar. This usually takes the mind of any thoughts of wine then onto fresh lime squeezed in

[Ymx]

Think I need to get myself a soda stream, save lugging that sparkling water back from the supermarket, and cut down on plastics. Can’t believe the brand still exists!!

[mat the expat]

Think I need to get myself a soda stream, save lugging that sparkling water back from the supermarket, and cut down on plastics. Can’t believe the brand still exists!!

The new ones are very good.

[Slick]

Think I need to get myself a soda stream, save lugging that sparkling water back from the supermarket, and cut down on plastics. Can’t believe the brand still exists!!

The new ones are very good.

Yes, and work out pretty much the same cost as even the cheapest supermarket bottles stuff but without the plastic

[Kiwias]

Because I work at home, I don't have that desire to sip something after work but what I enjoy with dinner is sparkling mineral water with a slice or two of fruit in it. Lemon is good but I really love kiwifruit.

No Yuzu?

From a tree in the backyard when in season. They are the bees knees.

[Tichtheid]

You can get sugar free ginger beer, that with a good splash of lime cordial, lots of ice and a slice of lemon and/or lime makes a great AF drink, a Moscow without the Mule.

We first had it as kids in a hotel in the Highlands and it’s been a favourite ever since, especially when I wanted to stay off the beer.

[Ymx]

This thread is proving gold dust for non tipple ideas!

[Kiwias]

This thread is proving gold dust for non tipple ideas!

Very happy to be of service!

[mat the expat]

Because I work at home, I don't have that desire to sip something after work but what I enjoy with dinner is sparkling mineral water with a slice or two of fruit in it. Lemon is good but I really love kiwifruit.

No Yuzu?

From a tree in the backyard when in season. They are the bees knees.

I love the seasonality of Japan. My Taikai moves around the date in October so sometimes I can get the best Cream Buns in the bakery, other times, no!

Seems to be the same with the Yuzu drink from the Combinis.

[Slick]

Well, that’s the first 100 days up, pretty chuffed.

1st couple of weeks was a bit ropey then into a couple of weeks of almost euphoria that moved into “is this it?”.

Anyway, been pretty much constantly ill for the last 5 weeks so haven’t seen too many benefits but definitely sharper and more productive at work and doing a lot more with the kids, which were the main aims.

I’m massively into AF beers and really enjoying exploring them.

Finding it all fine, no massive cravings and am at the stage now where I don’t want to spoil the run so quite happy to say no. I’ve been to a couple of parties with some heavy drinkers and was really taken aback at how quick the alcohol changes folk and the mess you end up in, quite unbelievable really. Not preaching, just surprised by it all.

No plans to start again, at least not before a year is up, and reasonably comfortable with this being the new life

[Ymx]

That’s brilliant mate

Amazing how much more work motivated I’ve found myself too.

[Happyhooker]

Well, that’s the first 100 days up, pretty chuffed.

1st couple of weeks was a bit ropey then into a couple of weeks of almost euphoria that moved into “is this it?”.

Anyway, been pretty much constantly ill for the last 5 weeks so haven’t seen too many benefits but definitely sharper and more productive at work and doing a lot more with the kids, which were the main aims.

I’m massively into AF beers and really enjoying exploring them.

Finding it all fine, no massive cravings and am at the stage now where I don’t want to spoil the run so quite happy to say no. I’ve been to a couple of parties with some heavy drinkers and was really taken aback at how quick the alcohol changes folk and the mess you end up in, quite unbelievable really. Not preaching, just surprised by it all.

No plans to start again, at least not before a year is up, and reasonably comfortable with this being the new life

Try the days brewing AF beers if you haven't already

[Slick]

That’s brilliant mate

Amazing how much more work motivated I’ve found myself too.

Thanks, appreciate that.

Not just work motivated but motivated to do everything I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. Reading more books, hiking more trails etc etc, it’s brilliant really.

[Slick]

HH, Days have a couple of very good ones. Also love Mash Gang, Brulo, Lost Ship and Big Drop, to name a few. Some of the stuff that is coming out now is really impressive

[Ymx]

The extra time you get is nice in general. I used to crash most nights after quaffing a few bottles of wine, out to it just after 9. So evening didn’t much exist.

It took me a while to be able to sleep without the booze which was extremely unpleasant to begin with. A couple of weeks needed to get the body used to living without it. And then months for momentary urges to fade.

it’s just really nice now to be more mentally available (and without alcohol odour) for my daughter, which has been my main drive on this.

Just checked and I’m close to 500. Ironically New Year’s Eve looks to be day 500.

[Slick]

The extra time you get is nice in general. I used to crash most nights after quaffing a few bottles of wine, out to it just after 9. So evening didn’t much exist.

It took me a while to be able to sleep without the booze which was extremely unpleasant to begin with. A couple of weeks needed to get the body used to living without it. And then months for momentary urges to fade.

it’s just really nice now to be more mentally available (and without alcohol odour) for my daughter, which has been my main drive on this.

Just checked and I’m close to 500. Ironically New Year’s Eve looks to be day 500.

Wow! Didn’t realise you were that far along the road! Well done.

I’ve been told by a few folk that around 6 months is a real tipping point in terms of it just becoming your life rather than a new thing

[Tichtheid]

Well Done guys.

My birthday is in April, I often take a break in January and Feb, always meaning to stay off for longer but it never happens.

I might try to get to my birthday this coming year.

[Kiwias]

Slick and Ymx

Bloody impressive stuff by both of you. It makes it easier when you realise the genuine benefits you gain from not drinking.

[Kiwias]

Sorry. I have some really ugly experiences to say about this, which would probably help, but am still not yet ready to share them

My apologies for not responding to this earlier. Please feel free to share your experiences if you want to. We've all been through some pretty intense and bad shit so are not shocked or offended easily.

[OomStruisbaai]

Thanks for sharing your inspirational stories and good luck fighting the battle. It's a long marathon war.

The alcohol ban with locked down with all its negatives forced me to cut out drinking in the week. I never drank that much, maybe 2 beers and a charge office coffee per night, but it made me realize it's about the habit.

Now I sleep much better, piss much less and save a lot of money.

[Sandstorm]

Big family celebrations are the hardest time to not drink for some, good luck and best wishes to everyone trying to stay sober this weekend.

[Kiwias]

Celebratory times like Christmas and birthdays can be pretty tough so this can be our virtual meeting over the festive season if anyone needs some support. We are all in this together.

[notfatcat]

Apart from one night getting hammered for a friend's birthday I've been off the drink since the 3rd Lions test. I stopped drinking as a prelude to giving up smoking (I always start smoking again when I'm pissed or semi pissed) as I wanted to give myself a good couple of months' start to not smoking. As it happens I'm still smoking but am rather enjoying not drinking. I'm nowhere near being an alky but certainly have a drink problem in that I don't have an off switch once I start. It's great drinking soft drinks as I'm no longer tied to the pub when I go out. No hangovers and being lazy and demotivated for the 2 or 3 days following are added bonuses. I've got to a point where I'm thinking never drinking again could be a realistic and beneficial lifestyle. I'm fairly convinced that should I start drinking again I will immediately drink to excess any time circumstances allow. I cannot envision ever being able to control my drinking to what might be considered a normal and responsible fashion on a night out.

[Kiwias]

Apart from one night getting hammered for a friend's birthday I've been off the drink since the 3rd Lions test. I stopped drinking as a prelude to giving up smoking (I always start smoking again when I'm pissed or semi pissed) as I wanted to give myself a good couple of months' start to not smoking. As it happens I'm still smoking but am rather enjoying not drinking. I'm nowhere near being an alky but certainly have a drink problem in that I don't have an off switch once I start. It's great drinking soft drinks as I'm no longer tied to the pub when I go out. No hangovers and being lazy and demotivated for the 2 or 3 days following are added bonuses. I've got to a point where I'm thinking never drinking again could be a realistic and beneficial lifestyle. I'm fairly convinced that should I start drinking again I will immediately drink to excess any time circumstances allow. I cannot envision ever being able to control my drinking to what might be considered a normal and responsible fashion on a night out.

I am very impressed by your awareness and your ability to make the decision then go through with it. It sounds as if you are already enjoying the benefits of being sober all the time. Good luck with it

[rocketz]

Just wanted to give a long overdue update. About a year after the thread started I fell of the wagon hard. Worse than ever before, I had a meltdown and cut myself off completely. It cumulated in my alcoholic father who succumbed to chyrosis and died 4 years ago. At the funeral, my brother and I got into a drunken brawl I was 47 and he was 42 and we smashed each other bloody over the old man's corpse.

I came home and decided to see a shrink because the booze was just a symptom. Fact is through the shrink the mechanics of my addiction became obvious. As children that were badly abused at home addiction was a letter in the post. That year 2017 I made the decision either or. And cold turkeyed. 4 years down the line still on the wagon. Much more humble than the first time.

Kiwias thanks for keeping the flame alive