Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Happyhooker]

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

I wish I could agree with you. There's still a few, but none of them seem to be near or want power

Oh it's definitely a hypothetical and you know your politicians better than I do. But I do think that they've largely been keeping their heads down because a) the wind has been blowing in Boris' direction for some time and it's the current direction of the party whether they like or not, and b) because Boris and chums are extraordinarily vicious and vindictive.

Or we could just end up with something like the current Republican party, completely in thrall to a disastrous failure.

A decent thread on this:

[Biffer]

Given the sorts of laws that this mob are trying to pass and the misery they're heaping on a lot of people, I vote "get them out now" rather than waiting for an election advantage. Might be a mistake.

Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

They've removed a lot of that more moderate type of people from the party though. The Stewarts, Grieves, even Gauke. More moderate right wingers who were capable people, even though I fundamentally disagreed with their politics. There's been a lot of 'cleansing' of the purity of the party since Brexit and there aren't many of the non-lunatic extremists left.

[Hal Jordan]

The real problem isn't the current bunch, because they are fucking idiots who are unable to properly cover their tracks.

However, what they, like Trump in America, have shown is that someone populist can be elected on vague promises to get things done and make things better, and that the system of Government largely depends on everyone agreeing to abide by the unwritten rules and the honour system, but this has zero teeth when they don't.

Whilst Johnson and his Cabinet of None of The Talents have been exposed for the corrupt dogmatic nincompoops they are, the threat to the country's democracy will come in the form of an apparent nobody from nowhere in particular, wrapped in the flag, and with the intelligence to remove all accountability, internal and external, slowly but carefully. Then you suddenly wake up in a notional democracy, but one where all opposition has effectively been silenced. The king of this has been Putin. 20 years ago, who was he, really? The stopgap after Yeltsin went. Now, he's basically the Tsar.

[JM2K6]

Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

They've removed a lot of that more moderate type of people from the party though. The Stewarts, Grieves, even Gauke. More moderate right wingers who were capable people, even though I fundamentally disagreed with their politics. There's been a lot of 'cleansing' of the purity of the party since Brexit and there aren't many of the non-lunatic extremists left.

There's a lot of MPs. How many have they removed?

[PCPhil]

If Bozo fires his PPS over this I predict another 5% off their polls rating and more grandee tory MPs saying “you stink, f off!”

[Biffer]

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

They've removed a lot of that more moderate type of people from the party though. The Stewarts, Grieves, even Gauke. More moderate right wingers who were capable people, even though I fundamentally disagreed with their politics. There's been a lot of 'cleansing' of the purity of the party since Brexit and there aren't many of the non-lunatic extremists left.

There's a lot of MPs. How many have they removed?

Well, there were 41 sitting MPs who were elected as Conservatives who didn't stand in 2019

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... l_election

[Insane_Homer]

[Torquemada 1420]

Then you suddenly wake up in a notional democracy, but one where all opposition has effectively been silenced.

I think that ship already sailed.

[GogLais]

Will the Met ignore accusations of Blackmail ?

Unless there’s something I don’t know - quite possible - it’s not really blackmail is it? They’re not threatening to reveal any embarrassing secrets about their opponents are they?

Threatening to withhold public funds for their constituencies must break some laws surely

I don’t know, I’m sure the converse has always been the case - vote for this and you’ll get more funds. Not saying it’s moral and it’s more blatant now,

[Biffer]

Unless there’s something I don’t know - quite possible - it’s not really blackmail is it? They’re not threatening to reveal any embarrassing secrets about their opponents are they?

Threatening to withhold public funds for their constituencies must break some laws surely

I don’t know, I’m sure the converse has always been the case - vote for this and you’ll get more funds. Not saying it’s moral and it’s more blatant now,

Yeah, and just because it's always been that way doesn't mean we have to still put up with it - if that was the case we still be ruled by Kings and Churches.

[petej]

Then you suddenly wake up in a notional democracy, but one where all opposition has effectively been silenced.

I think that ship already sailed.

Increasingly think that. Not old enough to remember but was it grimmer under Thatcher?

[Happyhooker]

Then you suddenly wake up in a notional democracy, but one where all opposition has effectively been silenced.

I think that ship already sailed.

Increasingly think that. Not old enough to remember but was it grimmer under Thatcher?

Nowhere close. There were 'wets' even in her cabinet.

And, whatever you thought of her, if she said something she was telling the truth.

[PCPhil]

If so will love to see the Raab’s of this world who went far beyond and above in their support.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think that ship already sailed.

Increasingly think that. Not old enough to remember but was it grimmer under Thatcher?

Nowhere close. There were 'wets' even in her cabinet.

And, whatever you thought of her, if she said something she was telling the truth.

Generally true**. She was of that generation where the attitude was "This is what I think. And tough if you don't like it." Before Mandelstein and Blair introduced politics of perception i.e. lie to everyone, as long as you get what you want done.

**The Falklands and secretly negotiating with the IRA being notable exceptions.

[JM2K6]

They've removed a lot of that more moderate type of people from the party though. The Stewarts, Grieves, even Gauke. More moderate right wingers who were capable people, even though I fundamentally disagreed with their politics. There's been a lot of 'cleansing' of the purity of the party since Brexit and there aren't many of the non-lunatic extremists left.

There's a lot of MPs. How many have they removed?

Well, there were 41 sitting MPs who were elected as Conservatives who didn't stand in 2019

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... l_election

That's not the same thing. A lot of those people retired from politics because they're a million years old. Some left because of Brexit. But the number of people actually pushed out is fairly small, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely happy to believe that the modern Tory party is a conglomerate of soulless screeching shitbags, culture war fanatics, hardline Brexiteers, Libertarian psychos, and rich poshos playing Lord of the Manor, but I'm not seeing evidence that the moderates were kicked out en masse.

[C69]

I think that ship already sailed.

Increasingly think that. Not old enough to remember but was it grimmer under Thatcher?

Nowhere close. There were 'wets' even in her cabinet.

And, whatever you thought of her, if she said something she was telling the truth.

Well obviously apart from over the Westland affair and over the number of Pits to close during the miners strike and the proposals to use the troops and also about the UK's traing of the Khmer Rouge and the support for Pol Pol. Not to mention the cover ups and lies over a number of extrajudicial murders.

[JM2K6]

Increasingly think that. Not old enough to remember but was it grimmer under Thatcher?

Nowhere close. There were 'wets' even in her cabinet.

And, whatever you thought of her, if she said something she was telling the truth.

Well obviously apart from over the Westland affair and over the number of Pits to close during the miners strike and the proposals to use the troops and also about the UK's traing of the Khmer Rouge and the support for Pol Pol. Not to mention the cover ups and lies over a number of extrajudicial murders.

Don't interrupt HH in the middle of his eulogy for his favourite politician...

[Happyhooker]

Nowhere close. There were 'wets' even in her cabinet.

And, whatever you thought of her, if she said something she was telling the truth.

Well obviously apart from over the Westland affair and over the number of Pits to close during the miners strike and the proposals to use the troops and also about the UK's traing of the Khmer Rouge and the support for Pol Pol. Not to mention the cover ups and lies over a number of extrajudicial murders.

Don't interrupt HH in the middle of his eulogy for his favourite politician...

Fucking hell!!!!


I may have over simplified things there for brevity. Obviously she did lie, but she was a conviction politician.

[Torquemada 1420]

Well obviously apart from over the Westland affair and over the number of Pits to close during the miners strike and the proposals to use the troops and also about the UK's traing of the Khmer Rouge and the support for Pol Pol. Not to mention the cover ups and lies over a number of extrajudicial murders.

Don't interrupt HH in the middle of his eulogy for his favourite politician...

Fucking hell!!!!


I may have over simplified things there for brevity. Obviously she did lie, but she was a conviction politician.

I think we can let you have that one.

[JM2K6]

Well obviously apart from over the Westland affair and over the number of Pits to close during the miners strike and the proposals to use the troops and also about the UK's traing of the Khmer Rouge and the support for Pol Pol. Not to mention the cover ups and lies over a number of extrajudicial murders.

Don't interrupt HH in the middle of his eulogy for his favourite politician...

Fucking hell!!!!


I may have over simplified things there for brevity. Obviously she did lie, but she was a conviction politician.

If only Boris was a convicted one...

[C69]

Well obviously apart from over the Westland affair and over the number of Pits to close during the miners strike and the proposals to use the troops and also about the UK's traing of the Khmer Rouge and the support for Pol Pol. Not to mention the cover ups and lies over a number of extrajudicial murders.

Don't interrupt HH in the middle of his eulogy for his favourite politician...

Fucking hell!!!!


I may have over simplified things there for brevity. Obviously she did lie, but she was a conviction politician.

I also kept it brief tbh. I think over simplified is a tad generous to yourself tbh.
Borisesque even.

[JM2K6]

Get his ass C69

[Happyhooker]

Don't interrupt HH in the middle of his eulogy for his favourite politician...

Fucking hell!!!!


I may have over simplified things there for brevity. Obviously she did lie, but she was a conviction politician.

I also kept it brief tbh. I think over simplified is a tad generous to yourself tbh.
Borisesque even.

Et tu scouser??

[Iain(bobbity)]

There were reports that 2019 intake were threatened with withdrawal of "levelling up" money over the Paterson vote.

Tried to shoot themselves in the head while aiming at their foot. Got away with it that time, sort of.

[Biffer]

There's a lot of MPs. How many have they removed?

Well, there were 41 sitting MPs who were elected as Conservatives who didn't stand in 2019

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... l_election

That's not the same thing. A lot of those people retired from politics because they're a million years old. Some left because of Brexit. But the number of people actually pushed out is fairly small, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely happy to believe that the modern Tory party is a conglomerate of soulless screeching shitbags, culture war fanatics, hardline Brexiteers, Libertarian psychos, and rich poshos playing Lord of the Manor, but I'm not seeing evidence that the moderates were kicked out en masse.

I think eased out rather than kicked out. The party has been repositioned so that those that where in the mainstream twenty years ago are now considered to be on the fringes.

[PCPhil]

You just know that because Bozo has not committed to releasing full report he will not be resigning. Once again we find ourselves in the situation that a ruthless individual can do whatever he likes by lying to get there, lying when there and lying to stay there.
And next election the majority of the press will lie to get him back in there.

Not feeling very hopeful I’m afraid.

[Paddington Bear]

There's plenty of people who'll swing to the centre under a popular moderate who have swung to the right under a popular right wing leader. Nothing new under the sun about it.

[dpedin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60068612

Ouch - mafia style blackmail in vogue now! Threatening to take away funding for schools if MPs don't tow the line. This gets into criminal acts now!

Blonde Bumblecunt is toast.

[fishfoodie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60068612

Ouch - mafia style blackmail in vogue now! Threatening to take away funding for schools if MPs don't tow the line. This gets into criminal acts now!

Blonde Bumblecunt is toast.

Isn't the threat of deselection, legally, more significant ?

If you lose your job; you lose your livelyhood; there's an definite financial impact, implicit in the threat.

[tabascoboy]

Hard to know where UK politics goes from here, all the main parties are irredeemably tainted now and much as I appreciate the Greens having a small place at the table in local and county level I wouldn't want them as a government. Nothing short of total dismantling and rebuilding of UK politics and repositioning of the political parties appears to be a remedy, but that could hurt a good deal in the short term. However since our global reputation is going ever further down the shitter ( fuck you very much, Brexit) maybe it's time to take some pain for long term gain.

Things must be getting so bad I bet a few of our inglorious leaders even hope for tensions over Ukraine to blow up simply as a weapon of mass distraction, now that they are keen to downplay COVID and play up their self-proclaimed "success" in getting it under control.

[Torquemada 1420]

Hard to know where UK politics goes from here, all the main parties are irredeemably tainted now and much as I appreciate the Greens having a small place at the table in local and county level I wouldn't want them as a government. Nothing short of total dismantling and rebuilding of UK politics and repositioning of the political parties appears to be a remedy, but that could hurt a good deal in the short term. However since our global reputation is going ever further down the shitter ( fuck you very much, Brexit) maybe it's time to take some pain for long term gain.

Things must be getting so bad I bet a few of our inglorious leaders even hope for tensions over Ukraine to blow up simply as a weapon of mass distraction, now that they are keen to downplay COVID and play their self-proclaimed "success" in getting it under control.

I'd argue this outcome is inevitable in a first past the post system. So, yes. A total rebuild is needed but won't happen. Guy Fawkes or a batch order of guillotines?

[tabascoboy]

Hard to know where UK politics goes from here, all the main parties are irredeemably tainted now and much as I appreciate the Greens having a small place at the table in local and county level I wouldn't want them as a government. Nothing short of total dismantling and rebuilding of UK politics and repositioning of the political parties appears to be a remedy, but that could hurt a good deal in the short term. However since our global reputation is going ever further down the shitter ( fuck you very much, Brexit) maybe it's time to take some pain for long term gain.

Things must be getting so bad I bet a few of our inglorious leaders even hope for tensions over Ukraine to blow up simply as a weapon of mass distraction, now that they are keen to downplay COVID and play their self-proclaimed "success" in getting it under control.

I'd argue this outcome is inevitable in a first past the post system. So, yes. A total rebuild is needed but won't happen. Guy Fawkes or a batch order of guillotines?

Pretty much relies on a complete implosion from within, splintering the parties and idealistically marginalising the more extreme and conservative ( small 'c'!) elements into minority, powerless cabals to provoke a total re-assessment of the party system. I'm sure it won't happen though as there is far too much self-interest in keeping the status quo - in which case we're up shitcart creek with not only no paddles but no boats either.

[petej]

Hard to know where UK politics goes from here, all the main parties are irredeemably tainted now and much as I appreciate the Greens having a small place at the table in local and county level I wouldn't want them as a government. Nothing short of total dismantling and rebuilding of UK politics and repositioning of the political parties appears to be a remedy, but that could hurt a good deal in the short term. However since our global reputation is going ever further down the shitter ( fuck you very much, Brexit) maybe it's time to take some pain for long term gain.

Things must be getting so bad I bet a few of our inglorious leaders even hope for tensions over Ukraine to blow up simply as a weapon of mass distraction, now that they are keen to downplay COVID and play their self-proclaimed "success" in getting it under control.

I'd argue this outcome is inevitable in a first past the post system. So, yes. A total rebuild is needed but won't happen. Guy Fawkes or a batch order of guillotines?

Pretty much relies on a complete implosion from within, splintering the parties and idealistically marginalising the more extreme and conservative ( small 'c'!) elements into minority, powerless cabals to provoke a total re-assessment of the party system. I'm sure it won't happen though as there is far too much self-interest in keeping the status quo - in which case we're up shitcart creek with not only no paddles but no boats either.

1st thing is to get Johnson out. Probably a terrible thing to say but it is a damn shame COVID didn't get him or Trump.

[GogLais]

Hard to know where UK politics goes from here, all the main parties are irredeemably tainted now and much as I appreciate the Greens having a small place at the table in local and county level I wouldn't want them as a government. Nothing short of total dismantling and rebuilding of UK politics and repositioning of the political parties appears to be a remedy, but that could hurt a good deal in the short term. However since our global reputation is going ever further down the shitter ( fuck you very much, Brexit) maybe it's time to take some pain for long term gain.

Things must be getting so bad I bet a few of our inglorious leaders even hope for tensions over Ukraine to blow up simply as a weapon of mass distraction, now that they are keen to downplay COVID and play their self-proclaimed "success" in getting it under control.

I'd argue this outcome is inevitable in a first past the post system. So, yes. A total rebuild is needed but won't happen. Guy Fawkes or a batch order of guillotines?

Pretty much relies on a complete implosion from within, splintering the parties and idealistically marginalising the more extreme and conservative ( small 'c'!) elements into minority, powerless cabals to provoke a total re-assessment of the party system. I'm sure it won't happen though as there is far too much self-interest in keeping the status quo - in which case we're up shitcmoderate art creek with not only no paddles but no boats either.

There was a moment of hope after the last GE that we might see some sort of realignment of the moderate left/centre but sadly it came to nothing. Even some sort of electoral pact looks out of the question.

[tabascoboy]

1st thing is to get Johnson out. Probably a terrible thing to say but it is a damn shame COVID didn't get him or Trump.

Keep hoping that the stress of trying to keep up the various fictions where in his mind he is a great leader under attack from the small minded would force him to resign, but his ego is never going to permit that.

[C69]

Surely if you want to oust the Tories keeping him at th ehelm is what you want.
He is toxic now.

[iarmhí]

So how do you get the Tories out.

Election pact between SNP, labour and lib dems so the anti tory vote isn't split?

[Paddington Bear]

The thought of a Labour SNP deal won Cameron his majority, not a chance of it happening. ‘Progressive Alliance’ is a dead end, Labour need to flip Tory voters, simple as that. It’s a long way back but FPTP can also switch things very quickly

[iarmhí]

Basically labour have to be centre to flip tory voters

[fishfoodie]

In a quick answer to the Question; "What is the current State of the Tory Party ?"

I had a real; LOL moment; borderline piss-my-pants; reading David Davis being referred to as a; "Tory grandee". That is lowering the bar on grandee status to the level, that a microbe couldn't get under it. Grandees should have a good dozen major achievements, that even the most casual of Political observers could reel off.

His greatest achievement; is his services to Entertainment; by being the subject of the first ever parody; where the parody was more effective, than the actual Politician.