Calcutta Cup match thread

[JM2K6]

My concerns re: Smith aren't the same as everyone else's. It's that Eddie wants us to boot the leather off the ball far more than Smith would normally. It was pretty clear to me that it's not how Smith ideally wants to play the game, and when he came back from England last time he occasionally looked in two minds about whether he should kick when previously he'd be sparking an attack.

We have the players to produce a dangerous attacking side; not quite NZ of Barrett at his best, but still with that sort of commitment to attacking rugby.

[Big D]

Scotland have the quality to win but also have it in them to get humped.

Bookies have England as favourites and I can't see any reason to disagree really. The Scotland attack was pretty uninspiring in the autumn and if Redpath isn't fit enough to play then our centres are quite bland which puts a lot of pressure on Russell.

Looking forward to seeing Smith v Russell, both players who look to play good attacking rugby. Hopefully the gameplans from the coaches let them.

Redpath looked in pretty good nick in his comeback match for Bath on Friday night
Thought I read on the Scotland thread you guys discussing the strength in depth of the possible centre pairings for the 6N?

The attacking limitations at centre are there for all to see. Although there was a new attack coach in the AI's so maybe he just hadn't fully implemented any plans. Redpath and Harris is probably the first choice pairing which puts a lot of onus on Redpath.

In theory we have some lovely attacking players available in Redpath, Hutchinson and Bennett, who is looking sharp again. But, and I say this as a fan of Harris* in defence, he offers very very little in attack and he is the mainstay of the centres due to his excellent defence. Don't get me wrong, Harris does all the unflashy defensive work, clears rucks etc but his passing and attacking play isn't really tier 1 international standard.

Johnson looks well off the boil in recent games and the other centre in the squad it Tuipulotu but he looks every bit a flat track bully at this point.

*won a tidy sum off him making the Lions too which was nice.

[robmatic]

Scotland have the quality to win but also have it in them to get humped.

Bookies have England as favourites and I can't see any reason to disagree really. The Scotland attack was pretty uninspiring in the autumn and if Redpath isn't fit enough to play then our centres are quite bland which puts a lot of pressure on Russell.

Looking forward to seeing Smith v Russell, both players who look to play good attacking rugby. Hopefully the gameplans from the coaches let them.

Redpath looked in pretty good nick in his comeback match for Bath on Friday night
Thought I read on the Scotland thread you guys discussing the strength in depth of the possible centre pairings for the 6N?

The attacking limitations at centre are there for all to see. Although there was a new attack coach in the AI's so maybe he just hadn't fully implemented any plans. Redpath and Harris is probably the first choice pairing which puts a lot of onus on Redpath.

In theory we have some lovely attacking players available in Redpath, Hutchinson and Bennett, who is looking sharp again. But, and I say this as a fan of Harris* in defence, he offers very very little in attack and he is the mainstay of the centres due to his excellent defence. Don't get me wrong, Harris does all the unflashy defensive work, clears rucks etc but his passing and attacking play isn't really tier 1 international standard.

Johnson looks well off the boil in recent games and the other centre in the squad it Tuipulotu but he looks every bit a flat track bully at this point.

*won a tidy sum off him making the Lions too which was nice.

I think it will be Johnson & Harris again this weekend because they are at least a known and dependable quantity. It's not very threatening but with Duhan, Hogg and Darcy there will be line breaks.

[Slick]

Scotland have the quality to win but also have it in them to get humped.

Bookies have England as favourites and I can't see any reason to disagree really. The Scotland attack was pretty uninspiring in the autumn and if Redpath isn't fit enough to play then our centres are quite bland which puts a lot of pressure on Russell.

Looking forward to seeing Smith v Russell, both players who look to play good attacking rugby. Hopefully the gameplans from the coaches let them.

Redpath looked in pretty good nick in his comeback match for Bath on Friday night
Thought I read on the Scotland thread you guys discussing the strength in depth of the possible centre pairings for the 6N?

The attacking limitations at centre are there for all to see. Although there was a new attack coach in the AI's so maybe he just hadn't fully implemented any plans. Redpath and Harris is probably the first choice pairing which puts a lot of onus on Redpath.

In theory we have some lovely attacking players available in Redpath, Hutchinson and Bennett, who is looking sharp again. But, and I say this as a fan of Harris* in defence, he offers very very little in attack and he is the mainstay of the centres due to his excellent defence. Don't get me wrong, Harris does all the unflashy defensive work, clears rucks etc but his passing and attacking play isn't really tier 1 international standard.

Johnson looks well off the boil in recent games and the other centre in the squad it Tuipulotu but he looks every bit a flat track bully at this point.

*won a tidy sum off him making the Lions too which was nice.

Johnson hasn’t been firing on full but I think that massively underestimates his influence on Scotland over the last few years. I’m a big fan

[JM2K6]

Plus it's almost definitely going to be yet another new/callow centre pairing for England with Marchant out.

[Biffer]

Every good backline has a Harris in there, defending, organising others in defence etc. There's plenty of attacking threat with Russell, Redpath, Hogg, Van der Merwe and Graham

[inactionman]

Every good backline has a Harris in there, defending, organising others in defence etc. There's plenty of attacking threat with Russell, Redpath, Hogg, Van der Merwe and Graham

As long as you avoid blockers in the centres who stop the ball ever getting further than one out.

What's Harris' distribution like? Seems pretty solid if unspectacular in the little I've seen of him, mostly for Gloucester.

[Biffer]

Every good backline has a Harris in there, defending, organising others in defence etc. There's plenty of attacking threat with Russell, Redpath, Hogg, Van der Merwe and Graham

As long as you avoid blockers in the centres who stop the ball ever getting further than one out.

What's Harris' distribution like? Seems pretty solid if unspectacular in the little I've seen of him, mostly for Gloucester.

Yeah, solid I'd say, and he's at 13, so if it gets to him it's more than one out!

[Big D]

Redpath looked in pretty good nick in his comeback match for Bath on Friday night
Thought I read on the Scotland thread you guys discussing the strength in depth of the possible centre pairings for the 6N?

The attacking limitations at centre are there for all to see. Although there was a new attack coach in the AI's so maybe he just hadn't fully implemented any plans. Redpath and Harris is probably the first choice pairing which puts a lot of onus on Redpath.

In theory we have some lovely attacking players available in Redpath, Hutchinson and Bennett, who is looking sharp again. But, and I say this as a fan of Harris* in defence, he offers very very little in attack and he is the mainstay of the centres due to his excellent defence. Don't get me wrong, Harris does all the unflashy defensive work, clears rucks etc but his passing and attacking play isn't really tier 1 international standard.

Johnson looks well off the boil in recent games and the other centre in the squad it Tuipulotu but he looks every bit a flat track bully at this point.

*won a tidy sum off him making the Lions too which was nice.

Johnson hasn’t been firing on full but I think that massively underestimates his influence on Scotland over the last few years. I’m a big fan

I don't think saying he is off the boil is underestimating past glories at all. He was much better pre knee injury and often people remember him for that try v England and deservedly so. He is a consistent player who is occasionally excellent, but he hasn't offered a whole lot in attack since his knee injury and has been off his best for Glasgow this season. We are not talking about what he has done, we must talk about what he is currently. The centres in the various combinations used during the AIs v Aus/SA/Japan offered little.

[Woddy]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

[Happyhooker]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

Playing poorly for quins

[Tichtheid]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

Harris was, correctly, preferred for Scotland because he brings better shape to the team. Jones never really nailed down the 13 shirt at Glasgow and although I haven't seen Quins play much this season, no one has been talking him up there.

At his best in attack he is magnificent. However our defence was porous and it wasn't just him at fault, but Harris runs the defence and the difference is stark.

I thought Harris was really good both sides of the ball for Glaws when I've seen them.

I wish Redpath had made it back a few weeks sooner for the 12 shirt, he looks sharp, but it's a big step up to international rugby after a year out


(ffs, I inherited this MacBook from my daughter after she upgraded and the autocorrect has a mind of its own)

[Happyhooker]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

Harris was, correctly, preferred for Scotland because he brings better shape to the team. Jones never really nailed down the 13 shirt at Glasgow and although I haven't seen Quins play much this season, no one has been talking him up there.

At his best in attack he is magnificent. However our defence was porous and it wasn't just him at fault, but Harris runs the defence and the difference is stark.

I thought Harris was really good both sides of the ball for Glaws when I've seen them.

I wish Redpath had made it back a few weeks sooner for the 12 shirt, he looks sharp, but it's a big step up to international rugby after a year out


(ffs, I inherited this MacBook from my daughter after she upgraded and the autocorrect has a mind of its own)

Ah, I wondered why you kept typing "love rabbit".

[SaintK]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

Harris was, correctly, preferred for Scotland because he brings better shape to the team. Jones never really nailed down the 13 shirt at Glasgow and although I haven't seen Quins play much this season, no one has been talking him up there.

At his best in attack he is magnificent. However our defence was porous and it wasn't just him at fault, but Harris runs the defence and the difference is stark.

I thought Harris was really good both sides of the ball for Glaws when I've seen them.

I wish Redpath had made it back a few weeks sooner for the 12 shirt, he looks sharp, but it's a big step up to international rugby after a year out


(ffs, I inherited this MacBook from my daughter after she upgraded and the autocorrect has a mind of its own)

Jones hasn't nailed down a starting place at Quins yet either. Some pretty mixed performances off the bench when I've watched Quins in the Prem and can't see him being played ahead of Esterhuizen and Northmore or Marchant for that matter though he does switch between centre and wing.

[JM2K6]

Jones is pretty shit. He's good for the occasional break and can be a threat with ball in hand, but that ball never leaves his hand until he's getting turned over, he's a bit of a shit defender, and he makes bad decisions constantly.

I can't see him ever being first choice if everyone's fit.

[inactionman]

He was part of a team that lost to Bath. Case closed.

[sockwithaticket]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

Playing poorly for quins

He's improved in recent weeks, but still not enough to suggest he should be starting at Quins ahead of either Marchant or Northmore, let alone playing international rugby.

[Slick]

The attacking limitations at centre are there for all to see. Although there was a new attack coach in the AI's so maybe he just hadn't fully implemented any plans. Redpath and Harris is probably the first choice pairing which puts a lot of onus on Redpath.

In theory we have some lovely attacking players available in Redpath, Hutchinson and Bennett, who is looking sharp again. But, and I say this as a fan of Harris* in defence, he offers very very little in attack and he is the mainstay of the centres due to his excellent defence. Don't get me wrong, Harris does all the unflashy defensive work, clears rucks etc but his passing and attacking play isn't really tier 1 international standard.

Johnson looks well off the boil in recent games and the other centre in the squad it Tuipulotu but he looks every bit a flat track bully at this point.

*won a tidy sum off him making the Lions too which was nice.

Johnson hasn’t been firing on full but I think that massively underestimates his influence on Scotland over the last few years. I’m a big fan

I don't think saying he is off the boil is underestimating past glories at all. He was much better pre knee injury and often people remember him for that try v England and deservedly so. He is a consistent player who is occasionally excellent, but he hasn't offered a whole lot in attack since his knee injury and has been off his best for Glasgow this season. We are not talking about what he has done, we must talk about what he is currently. The centres in the various combinations used during the AIs v Aus/SA/Japan offered little.

Yeah that’s fair enough, don’t know why I get so defensive about Johnson but in full flow he is superb.

It’s an interesting point about our centres. We’ve had 6 or 7 quality players in those positions for 5 or 6 years now but you can probably count on one hand the times it has really clicked. Actually, probably 2 hands but nonetheless it sometimes feels that all that quality just hasn’t quite produced the results it should

[Insane_Homer]

Ian Blackford with the game winning score at the death

here first!

[Biffer]

What's happened to Huw Jones?

Harris was, correctly, preferred for Scotland because he brings better shape to the team. Jones never really nailed down the 13 shirt at Glasgow and although I haven't seen Quins play much this season, no one has been talking him up there.

At his best in attack he is magnificent. However our defence was porous and it wasn't just him at fault, but Harris runs the defence and the difference is stark.

I thought Harris was really good both sides of the ball for Glaws when I've seen them.

I wish Redpath had made it back a few weeks sooner for the 12 shirt, he looks sharp, but it's a big step up to international rugby after a year out


(ffs, I inherited this MacBook from my daughter after she upgraded and the autocorrect has a mind of its own)

Yeah, it's amazing how often something gets autocorrected to 'Jennifer Lawrence nude'

[SaintK]

The attacking limitations at centre are there for all to see. Although there was a new attack coach in the AI's so maybe he just hadn't fully implemented any plans. Redpath and Harris is probably the first choice pairing which puts a lot of onus on Redpath.

In theory we have some lovely attacking players available in Redpath, Hutchinson and Bennett, who is looking sharp again. But, and I say this as a fan of Harris* in defence, he offers very very little in attack and he is the mainstay of the centres due to his excellent defence. Don't get me wrong, Harris does all the unflashy defensive work, clears rucks etc but his passing and attacking play isn't really tier 1 international standard.

Johnson looks well off the boil in recent games and the other centre in the squad it Tuipulotu but he looks every bit a flat track bully at this point.

*won a tidy sum off him making the Lions too which was nice.

Johnson hasn’t been firing on full but I think that massively underestimates his influence on Scotland over the last few years. I’m a big fan

I don't think saying he is off the boil is underestimating past glories at all. He was much better pre knee injury and often people remember him for that try v England and deservedly so. He is a consistent player who is occasionally excellent, but he hasn't offered a whole lot in attack since his knee injury and has been off his best for Glasgow this season. We are not talking about what he has done, we must talk about what he is currently. The centres in the various combinations used during the AIs v Aus/SA/Japan offered little.

Hutchinson didn't feature in the AI's did he?
Been playing very well for Saints

[Yr Alban]

Jones is pretty shit. He's good for the occasional break and can be a threat with ball in hand, but that ball never leaves his hand until he's getting turned over, he's a bit of a shit defender, and he makes bad decisions constantly.

I can't see him ever being first choice if everyone's fit.

There’s no doubt he has always had some attacking X-factor, but he was first pick for Scotland when our game plan was to run the ball from everywhere and win the try count 6-5. Things have moved on since then, and although he is a talented guy, he doesn’t have the defensive smarts required by our 13 now.

[Jock42]

Johnson hasn’t been firing on full but I think that massively underestimates his influence on Scotland over the last few years. I’m a big fan

I don't think saying he is off the boil is underestimating past glories at all. He was much better pre knee injury and often people remember him for that try v England and deservedly so. He is a consistent player who is occasionally excellent, but he hasn't offered a whole lot in attack since his knee injury and has been off his best for Glasgow this season. We are not talking about what he has done, we must talk about what he is currently. The centres in the various combinations used during the AIs v Aus/SA/Japan offered little.

Hutchinson didn't feature in the AI's did he?
Been playing very well for Saints

Nope, pretty sure it's his first inclusion in about 2 years.

[westport]

Forwards Courtney Lawes and Jonny Hill have been ruled out of England's Six Nations opener against Scotland on Saturday.

Flanker Lawes is recovering from concussion, while lock Hill has a foot injury.

[Hal Jordan]

Itoje and Deacon, I mean Ewels, then.

[Enzedder]

You'd think England would be all over this - but Eddie Jones

[Kawazaki]

18 months to the next RWC and Jones is relying on a genuine carthorse as his third lock, Youngs will pick up his 113th cap and he'll pick his 29th centre combination.

Chancer extraordinaire.

[Tichtheid]

You'd think England would be all over this - but Eddie Jones

The last five meetings have seen two wins each and a draw, albeit quite some draw.

Scotland are stronger now than at any time in the last five years and England possibly not as strong as they have been.

For every "but Eddie Jones" there is Scotland's ability to disintegrate.

I really do find this game difficult to call.

[mos_eisely_]

Scotland have the quality to win but also have it in them to get humped.

Bookies have England as favourites and I can't see any reason to disagree really. The Scotland attack was pretty uninspiring in the autumn and if Redpath isn't fit enough to play then our centres are quite bland which puts a lot of pressure on Russell.

Looking forward to seeing Smith v Russell, both players who look to play good attacking rugby. Hopefully the gameplans from the coaches let them.

Have you seen R.Hutchinson and M.Bennett for Saints and Edinburgh respectively recently?

[Happyhooker]

18 months to the next RWC and Jones is relying on a genuine carthorse as his third lock, Youngs will pick up his 113th cap and he'll pick his 29th centre combination.

Chancer extraordinaire.

Although I generally agree with you re eddie, you're laying it on with a trowel with the third lock thing. Launch is one game back from a long term injury, hill is in a moon boot and lawes, who he has used in the row, is hia. Yet to mention your sainted kruis who you've mentioned coming back in time.

Hammer eddie for what he does wrong, not what you make up, otherwise it just dilutes the message

[Happyhooker]

You'd think England would be all over this - but Eddie Jones

The last five meetings have seen two wins each and a draw, albeit quite some draw.

Scotland are stronger now than at any time in the last five years and England possibly not as strong as they have been.

For every "but Eddie Jones" there is Scotland's ability to disintegrate.

I really do find this game difficult to call.

2 years ago the weather won, not us

[Big D]

Scotland have the quality to win but also have it in them to get humped.

Bookies have England as favourites and I can't see any reason to disagree really. The Scotland attack was pretty uninspiring in the autumn and if Redpath isn't fit enough to play then our centres are quite bland which puts a lot of pressure on Russell.

Looking forward to seeing Smith v Russell, both players who look to play good attacking rugby. Hopefully the gameplans from the coaches let them.

Have you seen R.Hutchinson and M.Bennett for Saints and Edinburgh respectively recently?

I clarified in my following post (I think), those two are lovely players and in form but won't get picked. The centres will be Redpath or Johnson + Harris.

Lang has been good for Edinburgh too but Edinburgh have yet to enter the hard part of their fixture list to hard to gauge how good he really has been.

[Big D]

Johnson hasn’t been firing on full but I think that massively underestimates his influence on Scotland over the last few years. I’m a big fan

I don't think saying he is off the boil is underestimating past glories at all. He was much better pre knee injury and often people remember him for that try v England and deservedly so. He is a consistent player who is occasionally excellent, but he hasn't offered a whole lot in attack since his knee injury and has been off his best for Glasgow this season. We are not talking about what he has done, we must talk about what he is currently. The centres in the various combinations used during the AIs v Aus/SA/Japan offered little.

Hutchinson didn't feature in the AI's did he?
Been playing very well for Saints

No. Townsend hasn't trusted his defence in the past.

Part of the conundrum for Scotlands selectors is weighing up the attacking games of Hutch and Bennett and lesser defence than Harris v Harris better defence but lesser in attack than the other two.

There's merits on both sides of the argument.

I don't rate the other option in Tuipulotu as being near ready yet for this type of game.

[Kawazaki]

18 months to the next RWC and Jones is relying on a genuine carthorse as his third lock, Youngs will pick up his 113th cap and he'll pick his 29th centre combination.

Chancer extraordinaire.

Although I generally agree with you re eddie, you're laying it on with a trowel with the third lock thing. Launch is one game back from a long term injury, hill is in a moon boot and lawes, who he has used in the row, is hia. Yet to mention your sainted kruis who you've mentioned coming back in time.

Hammer eddie for what he does wrong, not what you make up, otherwise it just dilutes the message

Ewels has been in the squad for years, he's not been drafted in as injury cover. He's genuinely there on Eddie merit. He's ahead of Isiekwe and Ribbans plus previous flavour of the month Martin. Is Ewels - playing in a woeful Bath pack - a better option than a young player like Munga or Tizard for example playing in winning packs? What does Ewels offer England now and in 18 months?

[Happyhooker]

18 months to the next RWC and Jones is relying on a genuine carthorse as his third lock, Youngs will pick up his 113th cap and he'll pick his 29th centre combination.

Chancer extraordinaire.

Although I generally agree with you re eddie, you're laying it on with a trowel with the third lock thing. Launch is one game back from a long term injury, hill is in a moon boot and lawes, who he has used in the row, is hia. Yet to mention your sainted kruis who you've mentioned coming back in time.

Hammer eddie for what he does wrong, not what you make up, otherwise it just dilutes the message

Ewels has been in the squad for years, he's not been drafted in as injury cover. He's genuinely there on Eddie merit. He's ahead of Isiekwe and Ribbans plus previous flavour of the month Martin. Is Ewels - playing in a woeful Bath pack - a better option than a young player like Munga or Tizard for example playing in winning packs? What does Ewels offer England now and in 18 months?

Not my point, but I'll answer it.

Isiekwe I just don't get. Has all the tools but meh.
Ribbans, big hard bastard, does the basics incredibly well, not really international class.
Tizard, great prospect, you must be very glad to have signed him, but far too raw. Definitely one to watch.
Munga. Now I've been to quite a few LI games recently and again, a talent, but I'd play their ageing locks ahead of him atmo.
Martin, I haven't seen enough of to comment tbf.
Eddie obviously sees something in ewels, and although he's never looked good in an England shirt, he has actually stood out in a shit bath side on occasion, which takes some doing for a lock. I don't get him, personally.
I get your point, but as you said, the RWC is in 18 months time. Unless injuries happen again or someone really starts to perform, we go into it with itoje/hill/launch/lawes and 1 or 2 who are performing at the time, depending on the back row/second row balance.

Doesn't seem too mad to me

[Happyhooker]

Apologies, my phone seems to be double posting

[Kawazaki]

Although I generally agree with you re eddie, you're laying it on with a trowel with the third lock thing. Launch is one game back from a long term injury, hill is in a moon boot and lawes, who he has used in the row, is hia. Yet to mention your sainted kruis who you've mentioned coming back in time.

Hammer eddie for what he does wrong, not what you make up, otherwise it just dilutes the message

Ewels has been in the squad for years, he's not been drafted in as injury cover. He's genuinely there on Eddie merit. He's ahead of Isiekwe and Ribbans plus previous flavour of the month Martin. Is Ewels - playing in a woeful Bath pack - a better option than a young player like Munga or Tizard for example playing in winning packs? What does Ewels offer England now and in 18 months?

Not my point, but I'll answer it.

Isiekwe I just don't get. Has all the tools but meh.
Ribbans, big hard bastard, does the basics incredibly well, not really international class.
Tizard, great prospect, you must be very glad to have signed him, but far too raw. Definitely one to watch.
Munga. Now I've been to quite a few LI games recently and again, a talent, but I'd play their ageing locks ahead of him atmo.
Martin, I haven't seen enough of to comment tbf.
Eddie obviously sees something in ewels, and although he's never looked good in an England shirt, he has actually stood out in a shit bath side on occasion, which takes some doing for a lock. I don't get him, personally.
I get your point, but as you said, the RWC is in 18 months time. Unless injuries happen again or someone really starts to perform, we go into it with itoje/hill/launch/lawes and 1 or 2 who are performing at the time, depending on the back row/second row balance.

Doesn't seem too mad to me

It doesn't but as we can see, Ewels is definitely in the mix as well rather than other options that have or might have a much higher performance ceiling than we know Ewels has.

However, it's still the mule-headed obsession with Youngs that really pissing me off. Remember the farce with what happened with Spencer flying out days before the RWC final? Jones has literally done nothing at all to address that management fuckup. If anything, the situation is worse now than it was in the lead-in to 2019.

[Slick]

weather forecast, which means absolutely nothing in Edinburgh, looks like an OK day but windy.

Now looking like a properly shite old day..

[Margin__Walker]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Daly sneak into the team onto the wing for England to stack the back line with kicking options.

[Waudbee]

Ian Blackford with the game winning score at the death

here first!

He'd get sent off