The Official English Rugby Thread

[Kawazaki]

I looked at ticket prices for the England v Barbarians match. There were only 3 tariffs I could see;

£96 adult
£72 adult
£20 child

A blended average of £63 (the real blended figure is likely to be lower). Let's assume they sell 80% of capacity (65,600) then on ticket sales alone, the RFU will get over £4m. Corporate hospitality sales should be good plus their cut of merchandise, food and drink sales. It's got to be in the £6-7m range just for this match.

Does anyone know what the England player match fee is for non-test matches? And what will the Barbarians players get as a fee do you reckon?

[Paddington Bear]

That is really, really steep to watch a meaningless charity match. Not sure I'd pay much over £20 for it.


EDIT - anyone else got emails from just about every rugby mailing list about Prem Final tickets? I get a sense we're starting to see the cost of living biting into these days.

[sturginho]

My avatar has signed for LI

[Margin__Walker]

Has he been injured lately? Doesn't seem to have played since Jan. We seemed to have signed Italians in bunches (he's the third) in the same way that we signed Argentinians 12 months ago.

EQP over the next year or two is a worry though, given he's replacing two players who were (Cokanasiga and Hepetema). We're the worst in the league on that front at the moment.

[Kawazaki]

That is really, really steep to watch a meaningless charity match. Not sure I'd pay much over £20 for it.


EDIT - anyone else got emails from just about every rugby mailing list about Prem Final tickets? I get a sense we're starting to see the cost of living biting into these days.

A lot of the people going to Twickenham on Saturday for the final might normally have bought a ticket for the Barbarians game on the Sunday, and vice-versa. Not many people will be paying to watch both games, probably <100 I'd guess.

[Paddington Bear]

That is really, really steep to watch a meaningless charity match. Not sure I'd pay much over £20 for it.


EDIT - anyone else got emails from just about every rugby mailing list about Prem Final tickets? I get a sense we're starting to see the cost of living biting into these days.

A lot of the people going to Twickenham on Saturday for the final might normally have bought a ticket for the Barbarians game on the Sunday, and vice-versa. Not many people will be paying to watch both games, probably <100 I'd guess.

I am told it is feasibly possible to go to Twickenham and not get rat arsed, but including tickets I struggle to see change from £200 or so when going. Quite a lot of cash at the moment.

[Hal Jordan]

My Final tickets were handed to me today, courtesy of work.

Would have been nice to see Quins in the match, but I suppose I'll have to settle for Good AIDS vs Bad AIDS.

There's always next year!

[sturginho]

Has he been injured lately? Doesn't seem to have played since Jan. We seemed to have signed Italians in bunches (he's the third) in the same way that we signed Argentinians 12 months ago.

EQP over the next year or two is a worry though, given he's replacing two players who were (Cokanasiga and Hepetema). We're the worst in the league on that front at the moment.

He's actually struggled quite a bit with injuries throughout his career, which is a shame because he's one of the most talented players Italy have had

[Margin__Walker]

Has he been injured lately? Doesn't seem to have played since Jan. We seemed to have signed Italians in bunches (he's the third) in the same way that we signed Argentinians 12 months ago.

EQP over the next year or two is a worry though, given he's replacing two players who were (Cokanasiga and Hepetema). We're the worst in the league on that front at the moment.

He's actually struggled quite a bit with injuries throughout his career, which is a shame because he's one of the most talented players Italy have had

Yeah, I'd heard that. We'll see how he gets on. His workload shouldn't be too high as he'll be competing against some of the first names on the team sheet at the moment in van Rensburg and Rona

[Kawazaki]

The Times have published details from the PRL salary cap review for the 2020-21 season (so excluding Saracens).

https://archive.ph/N4oLz

A numbers game
£6.4 million The salary cap set for Gallagher Premiership clubs for the 2020-21 season for their total squad spend
£94,722,353 The total cash spend by all Premiership clubs for last season to employ their senior players
£7,286,335 The average cash spend across all Premiership teams to employ their senior players for the 2020-21 campaign
49 The average number of players used throughout the 2020-21 season by clubs in Premiership and European matches, down on the 59 used in the Covid-affected 2019-20 season
£171,187 The average total salary for a senior player in 2020-21, while the average player income was £143,699
£182,532 The average income for players aged 26-28, the highest average for all age groupings
£325,306 The average income for a player with more than 50 international caps
2 The number of players that each club can nominate to be excluded from the salary cap provided they are new to the Premiership, have always been at their present club or have been with their present club for at least two full salary cap years
£532,894 The average income of the top 24 earners during the 2020-21 season

This season, 22% has been cut off the salary cap.

Those who still advocate that the RFU should centrally contract players should look at the £94.7m it costs to employ enough senior players to play for 12 clubs.

[sockwithaticket]

This was interesting. We've often seen those best paid by position charts for the various leagues, but never with figures attached.



Not sure what Mullins was expecting for hooker and scrum half, there aren't that many quality, senior options in those positions across the Prem at the moment.

Look at Leicester. Montoya's probably on a decent wedge, but then you've got Dolly, Clare and the other Cowan-Dickie. None of those are going to be on much you'd have thought. Equally Youngs is probably on a lot (whether he should be is another matter) and then you've got recent academy grad van Portvliet and ancient player/coach Wigglesworth.

It's a similar story across the Prem with some club's first choice starters not being of a comparable level to those listed above.

It'd be good to see even greater positional detail, I suspect looseheads are dragging down the prop average.

The Times have published details from the PRL salary cap review for the 2020-21 season (so excluding Saracens).

https://archive.ph/N4oLz

A numbers game
£6.4 million The salary cap set for Gallagher Premiership clubs for the 2020-21 season for their total squad spend
£94,722,353 The total cash spend by all Premiership clubs for last season to employ their senior players
£7,286,335 The average cash spend across all Premiership teams to employ their senior players for the 2020-21 campaign
49 The average number of players used throughout the 2020-21 season by clubs in Premiership and European matches, down on the 59 used in the Covid-affected 2019-20 season
£171,187 The average total salary for a senior player in 2020-21, while the average player income was £143,699
£182,532 The average income for players aged 26-28, the highest average for all age groupings
£325,306 The average income for a player with more than 50 international caps
2 The number of players that each club can nominate to be excluded from the salary cap provided they are new to the Premiership, have always been at their present club or have been with their present club for at least two full salary cap years
£532,894 The average income of the top 24 earners during the 2020-21 season

This season, 22% has been cut off the salary cap.

Those who still advocate that the RFU should centrally contract players should look at the £94.7m it costs to employ enough senior players to play for 12 clubs.

That's a pretty substantial gap. I wonder how aware players were of that differential and what actual figures might do to squad cohesion going forward. Especially if some of those particularly high earners are, say, England internationals who, between rest weeks and international windows, aren't playing as much as others earning significantly less.

[SaintK]

That is really, really steep to watch a meaningless charity match. Not sure I'd pay much over £20 for it.


EDIT - anyone else got emails from just about every rugby mailing list about Prem Final tickets? I get a sense we're starting to see the cost of living biting into these days.

A lot of the people going to Twickenham on Saturday for the final might normally have bought a ticket for the Barbarians game on the Sunday, and vice-versa. Not many people will be paying to watch both games, probably <100 I'd guess.

I am told it is feasibly possible to go to Twickenham and not get rat arsed, but including tickets I struggle to see change from £200 or so when going. Quite a lot of cash at the moment.

You won't get change out of £200 for a Premium ticket for the AB match in the Autumn. The standard price is £210!!!! Club entitlement price £174. Fucking mental, but my club were well over subscribed for this match

[Kawazaki]

That's a pretty substantial gap. I wonder how aware players were of that differential and what actual figures might do to squad cohesion going forward. Especially if some of those particularly high earners are, say, England internationals who, between rest weeks and international windows, aren't playing as much as others earning significantly less.

Very much depends on the club. If you're a Bath player and, for reasons unknown, Eddie Jones still thinks you're good enough for England, then when you return to the club and play like shit then I imagine the squad players will think you're taking the absolute piss. At the top clubs, it's fairly clear that the returning England players (bar Youngs) significantly raises the standards and expectations of their club side.

[sockwithaticket]

Team named for the Barbarians:




Not bad, but we really need to move on from Nowell and Cokanasiga is a lucky boy when Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Arundel were also available.

Launchbury's absence from the squad continues to baffle when you see Ewels in there. Haven't found anything to indicate he's injured

[Kawazaki]

Charlie fucking Ewels.

For the love of God, why?

[Margin__Walker]

Not bad, but we really need to move on from Nowell and Cokanasiga is a lucky boy when Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Arundel were also available.

Launchbury's absence from the squad continues to baffle when you see Ewels in there. Haven't found anything to indicate he's injured

Shame there aren't many new faces out in the backline other than Freeman. That's usually what's fun about these games, albeit it is a strong Baa Baas team. Guess May and Nowell do need the gametime given they are likely in Eddie's plans to take both to Oz (agree on Nowell. Not convinced on his role going forward). EJ seems wedded to the Cokanasiga experiment (especially with Manu out), so we'll see how it goes.

Ewels is an underwhelming selection, but as soon as the training squad was selected, it was clear he was going to start.

For guys like Arundell and Joseph, they'll at least get a clear run at the U20s series that starts next week.

[Oxbow]

Every time Charlie Ewels gets another cap (or not in this case) Dave Ribbans must punch the wall, and by now it probably looks like Swiss cheese. At least Eddie didn't pick Freeman at 13.

[sockwithaticket]

Every time Charlie Ewels gets another cap (or not in this case) Dave Ribbans must punch the wall, and by now it probably looks like Swiss cheese. At least Eddie didn't pick Freeman at 13.

Just wait 'til Nowell comes on, Marchant to fullback and Freeman to centre. Nailed on.

[Oxbow]

Every time Charlie Ewels gets another cap (or not in this case) Dave Ribbans must punch the wall, and by now it probably looks like Swiss cheese. At least Eddie didn't pick Freeman at 13.

Just wait 'til Nowell comes on, Marchant to fullback and Freeman to centre. Nailed on.

Shhh, Eddie might be reading.

[Kawazaki]

https://archive.ph/wztvj

Good article on Mark McCall on what he does to make Saracens win (sorry guys, its not simply spending loads of money).

Itoje talks about this attitude well. “We want successful careers, not a successful year or couple of years,” he says. “If you look at the top athletes, whatever sport, they go after it year after year. That is the mentality of a lot of players at this club.”
It can shock new recruits. Vincent Koch, the Springboks’ World Cup-winning prop, came in late 2016 and felt he was “the full package” — but did not play for eight weeks.
“Mark’s words were, ‘We think you’re good, but we don’t think you work hard enough,’ ” Koch recalls. “That was a massive eye-opener.”
Saracens made clear that Koch now had to chase box-kicks relentlessly and work harder off the ball. “They’ve kept me on my toes. Throughout the six years, they never stopped coaching,” Koch says.

[ASMO]

Every time Charlie Ewels gets another cap (or not in this case) Dave Ribbans must punch the wall, and by now it probably looks like Swiss cheese. At least Eddie didn't pick Freeman at 13.

Every time Ewels gets picked, a kitten dies, it is well known that Eddie hates cats

[Paddington Bear]

Youngs not starting the Prem final is quite indicative of where he really is as a player.

[Raggs]

Youngs not starting the Prem final is quite indicative of where he really is as a player.

Emotionally crushed as his sister in law died and his brother is probably inconsolable?

[Paddington Bear]

Youngs not starting the Prem final is quite indicative of where he really is as a player.

Emotionally crushed as his sister in law died and his brother is probably inconsolable?

Shit I'd actually forgotten all about that

[Kawazaki]

Youngs not starting the Prem final is quite indicative of where he really is as a player.

Emotionally crushed as his sister in law died and his brother is probably inconsolable?

He wouldn't be on the bench if he wasn't ready to start. And besides, he started last weekend just days after she died.

[petej]

https://archive.ph/wztvj

Good article on Mark McCall on what he does to make Saracens win (sorry guys, its not simply spending loads of money).

Itoje talks about this attitude well. “We want successful careers, not a successful year or couple of years,” he says. “If you look at the top athletes, whatever sport, they go after it year after year. That is the mentality of a lot of players at this club.”
It can shock new recruits. Vincent Koch, the Springboks’ World Cup-winning prop, came in late 2016 and felt he was “the full package” — but did not play for eight weeks.
“Mark’s words were, ‘We think you’re good, but we don’t think you work hard enough,’ ” Koch recalls. “That was a massive eye-opener.”
Saracens made clear that Koch now had to chase box-kicks relentlessly and work harder off the ball. “They’ve kept me on my toes. Throughout the six years, they never stopped coaching,” Koch says.

Spending lots more and very good coaching is a superb combination regardless of sport as Man city and Saracens show. Spending lots and being shit is often very funny Manchester United being my favourite current example.

[Stranger]

Youngs not starting the Prem final is quite indicative of where he really is as a player.

Emotionally crushed as his sister in law died and his brother is probably inconsolable?

He wouldn't be on the bench if he wasn't ready to start. And besides, he started last weekend just days after she died.

Yeah, but maybe he had other things than training to do during the week

[Kawazaki]

https://archive.ph/wztvj

Good article on Mark McCall on what he does to make Saracens win (sorry guys, its not simply spending loads of money).

Itoje talks about this attitude well. “We want successful careers, not a successful year or couple of years,” he says. “If you look at the top athletes, whatever sport, they go after it year after year. That is the mentality of a lot of players at this club.”
It can shock new recruits. Vincent Koch, the Springboks’ World Cup-winning prop, came in late 2016 and felt he was “the full package” — but did not play for eight weeks.
“Mark’s words were, ‘We think you’re good, but we don’t think you work hard enough,’ ” Koch recalls. “That was a massive eye-opener.”
Saracens made clear that Koch now had to chase box-kicks relentlessly and work harder off the ball. “They’ve kept me on my toes. Throughout the six years, they never stopped coaching,” Koch says.

Spending lots more and very good coaching is a superb combination regardless of sport as Man city and Saracens show. Spending lots and being shit is often very funny Manchester United being my favourite current example.

"Lots more" is an exaggeration, especially when casually anchoring Man City into the conversation! It averaged £700k per season over three seasons. And £800k of that was for Itoje's image rights*, in one season.




* Which we now know was actually a gross undervaluation rather than a gross overvaluation.

[Kawazaki]

Emotionally crushed as his sister in law died and his brother is probably inconsolable?

He wouldn't be on the bench if he wasn't ready to start. And besides, he started last weekend just days after she died.

Yeah, but maybe he had other things than training to do during the week

Or maybe use Occam's Razor and base selection on how's he's been playing for the last few years.

[Stranger]

I am not sure Occam's Razor says that you pick the player who has only started twice since February

[Kawazaki]

I am not sure Occam's Razor says that you pick the player who has only started twice since February

I don't think JVP is injured. Youngs isn't injured.

This is a final.

I think Youngs probably makes a terrible substitute - he's hardly going to raise the tempo or offer a new or different threat is he.

Scrumhalf is one of the few (relatively) weak points for Saracens although I think Davies is improving all the time. I don't rate the replacement Saffa 9 for Sarries at all.

[sockwithaticket]

I haven't watched a huge amount of Leicester this season, but over the last couple of months the difference in their play when JVP comes on has been profound. It seems to be when he's on the pitch that their attack really starts to fire and they put the opposition to bed. I can understand brining him off the bench to finish the game rather than Youngs.

[SaintK]

I am not sure Occam's Razor says that you pick the player who has only started twice since February

I don't think JVP is injured. Youngs isn't injured.

This is a final.

I think Youngs probably makes a terrible substitute - he's hardly going to raise the tempo or offer a new or different threat is he.

Scrumhalf is one of the few (relatively) weak points for Saracens although I think Davies is improving all the time. I don't rate the replacement Saffa 9 for Sarries at all.

I didn't realise that Wigglesworth was starting. Bit of a slap in the face for JVP who I reckon is the best SH at Tigers!!

[Kawazaki]

On the face of it, it seems like an odd selection by Borthwick but who knows, it might be inspired!

Saracens to win by 11.

[Kawazaki]

Scrumhalf is one of the few (relatively) weak points for Saracens although I think Davies is improving all the time. I don't rate the replacement Saffa 9 for Sarries at all.

He needs to improve quicker.

[Torquemada 1420]

And the sum total of interest in the GP final is..................

Probably the right choice based on the 20 mins so far.

[FalseBayFC]

I am not sure Occam's Razor says that you pick the player who has only started twice since February

I don't think JVP is injured. Youngs isn't injured.

This is a final.

I think Youngs probably makes a terrible substitute - he's hardly going to raise the tempo or offer a new or different threat is he.

Scrumhalf is one of the few (relatively) weak points for Saracens although I think Davies is improving all the time. I don't rate the replacement Saffa 9 for Sarries at all.

Van Zyl in Afrikaans rhymes with snail. His nickname on the board and twitter was Ivan van Snail. His service is glacial.

[sockwithaticket]

And the sum total of interest in the GP final is..................

Probably the right choice based on the 20 mins so far.

I've got it on, but there's not an awful lot to get excited by so far and I don't particularly want either side to win. It's not a game for the neutrals.

[Torquemada 1420]

And the sum total of interest in the GP final is..................

Probably the right choice based on the 20 mins so far.

I've got it on, but there's not an awful lot to get excited by so far and I don't particularly want either side to win. It's not a game for the neutrals.

Agreed. Just less uninteresting than horse racing.

[Oxbow]

Obvious is obvious, but Quins v Saints would have been so much better as a final.