President Trump and US politics catchall

[GogLais]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

Presumably there's a lad or lads involved in your grim little '3 abortions by 16' scenario. Possibly an uncle. Or maybe a brother. Are you suggesting this girl bears all the responsibility for her pregnancy and the equally "promiscuous" father(s) needn't concern themselves with contraception and the like? Is it all the girl's fault for being a slut who couldn't keep her legs crossed?

Thinking aloud - sometimes dangerous - if you say it’s a woman’s right to choose once she’s pregnant then does it make it easier for the fathers to walk away from their responsibilities? On the lines of “If she can’t afford to keep it, she doesn’t have to have it”. I’m not saying that’s an argument against abortion rights, more a possible consequence thereof.

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

So, what's the solution?

Vanishingly few women use abortion as birth control, there will be a few of course, but much like benefit cheats, that minority are part of the price for making something vital available to those who need it.

Onto your specific extreme edge case, a 16 year old on her 3rd abortion most likely has some issues going on whether it's as simple as being too uneducated to know about contraception or perhaps historic abuse leading to hypersexuality at a young age. Whatever it is they're unlikely to be fit to bring a child into the world and raise it, yet also unlikely to be able to afford their own abortions if forced to pay for it, so what's the solution?

My specific extreme edge case is very common were I'm from.

I'm not qualified to comment on the mental state of a 16 year old (and in SA's case even younger than that sometimes) that is on her 3rd abortion. I'm all for using the funds allocated for abortions to fund some sort of program for young girls on the dangers of unprotected sex.

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

You're now arguing both for and against elective surgery being funded. You don't even agree with yourself on this

My mom had no say in getting cancer.

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

Presumably there's a lad or lads involved in your grim little '3 abortions by 16' scenario. Possibly an uncle. Or maybe a brother. Are you suggesting this girl bears all the responsibility for her pregnancy and the equally "promiscuous" father(s) needn't concern themselves with contraception and the like? Is it all the girl's fault for being a slut who couldn't keep her legs crossed?

Don't be daft, obviously the one with the dangly bits also has a responsibility. Going into forced sex, whether it's rape or incest or both is also obviously not the case I'm arguing about here.

[Lobby]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

You're now arguing both for and against elective surgery being funded. You don't even agree with yourself on this

My mom had no say in getting cancer.

What about people who smoke, drink or eat lots of fast food? Should they have to pay for cancer treatment as their lifestyle choices increased their risk of cancer?

[average joe]

You saying my mom's a fat bint and don't deserve cancer treatment? I'll have you know my mom lived a healthy life. Never smoked, never drank, watched her weight and a good person with a beautiful personality to boot. Fuck knows why she got breast cancer but such is the way of the world I guess. She payed for most of the treatment through her medical aid anyways, just they don't cover reconstruction and she had to pay separately for that.

[Calculon]

Don't be daft, obviously the one with the dangly bits also has a responsibility. Going into forced sex, whether it's rape or incest or both is also obviously not the case I'm arguing about here.

Where are you from in SA? SA has a very low rate of abortion, 4.3 per 100 000 women according to the web, and as far as I can tell, that rate has also been on a steady decline for years.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

There is still a problem with illegal abortions, but presumable you don’t have a problem with them since they aren’t tax payer funded. The idea that it is not only common, but indeed according to you very common, for girls 16 and younger to be on their third abortion because they like sex too much, and for there to be no form of abuse involved is fairly extraordinary.

FWIW I think SA’s abortion laws are pretty sensible

In South Africa, a woman of any age can get an abortion on request with no reasons given if she is less than 12 weeks pregnant. If she is between 13 and 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion if (a) her own physical or mental health is at stake, (b) the baby will have severe mental or physical abnormalities, (c) she is pregnant because of incest, (d) she is pregnant because of rape, or (e) she is of the personal opinion that her economic or social situation is sufficient reason for the termination of pregnancy. If she is more than 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion only if her or the fetus' life is in danger or there are likely to be serious birth defects

[Tichtheid]

... a quick Google (told) me that ...

Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021

^^^ So why your shrieking hysteria???
Abortion rights will now be decided by the people on a state by state basis.
Given your quoted statistic, we can surely expect every state to overwhelmingly grant women abortion on demand.

Or, you Silly Billy, have you once more allowed your MSM manipulators to make an ass of you yet again by conning you into believing that today's decision makes abortions illegal throughout the United States forevermore ???

Blimey, my mainstream media manipulators, eh?

You missed out, "Do your own research"
That's what they say, isn't it?

Abortion is now illegal or heavily restricted in at least 11 states following the Supreme Court's historic decision Friday to overturn Roe v. Wade. Twelve other states have laws in place that pave the way to quickly ban or severely restrict access to them, according to research from the Guttmacher Institute, a group that favors abortion rights. Several additional states appear likely to pass new laws.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... 6156896020

Before I go further, someone up there mentioned that the difference between this development and the gun laws in New York is the 2nd amendment in the constitution.
Abortion was found to be allowable by the right to privacy and the right to freedom enshrined in the constitution.

Those rights have now been removed for women who will be forced to go through with a pregnancy against their will, this doesn't get the State out of peoples' lives, it does exactly the opposite.

Currently it is not illegal to travel to other states for medical care, Roe v Wade was said to be set in stone, how long before it is made illegal to go to another state for an abortion?


Warning, this is from the NYT, best put on a tinfoil hat before reading this to keep the mind-controlling beams at bay.

There are currently no abortion bans that attempt to prosecute women who cross state lines to seek an abortion.

However, states could try in the future, said David Cohen, a law professor at Drexel University. “There is no guarantee that an aggressive prosecutor might try to stretch the law as much as they can.”

In his concurring decision, Justice Brett Kavanaugh suggested that women who travel to neighboring states to receive an abortion would be protected by the constitutional right to interstate travel.

People who assist a women seeking an abortion in a neighboring state could also be at risk of prosecution.

“It’s hard to tell at this point, but I think it’s likely that [the prosecutors] will go after the people that help the woman get the abortion,” he said. “The person who drives them, the doctor who sees them.”

Both Texas and Oklahoma recently passed abortion bans that allow private citizens to sue people who perform abortions or who otherwise help someone get one.

Many organizations are still encouraging patients who cannot seek an abortion in their home state to travel across state lines to receive care, including a handful of companies that have pledged to cover travel expenses for employees who need abortions.

“People should travel, people should get care wherever they can,” said Mr. Cohen. “But it’s not a simple answer.”

[Slick]

well done, enjoyed that!

[Iain(bobbity)]

The Arkansas law that is in effect as of today has no exceptions for rape or incest.

It has no exceptions for medical conditions that will cause still birth or death shortly after birth.

[Jockaline]

Don't be daft, obviously the one with the dangly bits also has a responsibility. Going into forced sex, whether it's rape or incest or both is also obviously not the case I'm arguing about here.

Where are you from in SA? SA has a very low rate of abortion, 4.3 per 100 000 women according to the web, and as far as I can tell, that rate has also been on a steady decline for years.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

There is still a problem with illegal abortions, but presumable you don’t have a problem with them since they aren’t tax payer funded. The idea that it is not only common, but indeed according to you very common, for girls 16 and younger to be on their third abortion because they like sex too much, and for there to be no form of abuse involved is fairly extraordinary.

FWIW I think SA’s abortion laws are pretty sensible

In South Africa, a woman of any age can get an abortion on request with no reasons given if she is less than 12 weeks pregnant. If she is between 13 and 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion if (a) her own physical or mental health is at stake, (b) the baby will have severe mental or physical abnormalities, (c) she is pregnant because of incest, (d) she is pregnant because of rape, or (e) she is of the personal opinion that her economic or social situation is sufficient reason for the termination of pregnancy. If she is more than 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion only if her or the fetus' life is in danger or there are likely to be serious birth defects

Good post

[Uncle fester]

The Arkansas law that is in effect as of today has no exceptions for rape or incest.

It has no exceptions for medical conditions that will cause still birth or death shortly after birth.

Basically reverted to what the Irish law used to be.

[Slick]

well done, enjoyed that!

Was that meant to be a text to your missus?

That would be pre texting

[laurent]

When Fester? Many many years ago

Not that long ago : 4 years

[laurent]

When Fester? Many many years ago

Not that long ago : 4 years

That's a myth. Many many abortions were carried out each year legally and within hospitals long prior to 4 years ago. Savita was a medical error not that they didn't have the tools available to them. Giving an abortion for mental health reasons was happening anyway but fully approved following the x case in the early 90's. This was because after 1983 the mother's life was equal. The numbers of abortions per year from what I recall were certainly in the 100's. I've never understood how this was not clearly understood.

Talking about legalisation here

[Uncle fester]

I'm guessing you're referring to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 legislation? The one that finally came through 20 odd years after the electorate made it clear they didn't want a total ban on abortion.

[Uncle fester]

Under what legislation?

[fishfoodie]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... life-trump

I hate Illinois Nazis !

[Enzedder]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

So are you prepared to make sufficient child support to be payable by the father to be backed up by punitive seizure laws and/or compulsory jail terms?

Are you also prepared to cover the cost of the care of unwanted children (or children who cannot be cared for properly) who have been surrendered to foster care from your taxes. That number is around 450,000 and it will explode in the very near future.

[Uncle fester]

Under what legislation?

8th amendment

Kids, this here is what's called gaslighting.

[fishfoodie]

You can see why the fascist Supreme Court Judges, the GOP, & the Evangelical jihadists were pissed at the original leak of the decision; they absolutely didn't want this coming out before the mid-terms, with ~80% of US voters clearly against their new ; "interpretation"

This decision combined with Thomas's attack on other decisions, have turned this decision, & SCOTUS into the main policy for the Mid-Terms, & the GOP have predictably assembled the biggest shower of knuckle dragging morons you could imagine.

I really hope people are able to get out & vote, & tell the DNC, the GOP, & SCOTUS what they want, in no uncertain terms !

It's long past time to take the gloves off, & stop pretending that there can be an honest debate, & negotiation with them.

[Enzedder]

There will still be abortions in States like Oklahoma.

Just not safe ones.

[average joe]

How messed up is the world when we begin to solve problems by allocating resources to the outcome instead of preventing it from happening in the first place.

[Tichtheid]

There will still be abortions in States like Oklahoma.

Just not safe ones.

Quite. This is what the ostriches are refusing to talk about, abortions will take place and women will die.

However, there are lights in the dark place, California Governor Gavin Newson immediately signed into law protection for women who travel to California to seek the procedure, saying that they will not co-operate with any State which seeks any information on women who have abortions or those who perform the procedure or those who help in any way.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/06/24/in-re ... er-states/


As an aside, Gov Newsom's distant cousin Joanna Newson is a musician who is worth a listen, if you like a slightly weird singer song-writers who accompany themselves on the harp.

[JM2K6]

There will still be abortions in States like Oklahoma.

Just not safe ones.

Quite. This is what the ostriches are refusing to talk about, abortions will take place and women will die.

However, there are lights in the dark place, California Governor Gavin Newson immediately signed into law protection for women who travel to California to seek the procedure, saying that they will not co-operate with any State which seeks any information on women who have abortions or those who perform the procedure or those who help in any way.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/06/24/in-re ... er-states/


As an aside, Gov Newsom's distant cousin Joanna Newson is a musician who is worth a listen, if you like a slightly weird singer song-writers who accompany themselves on the harp.

Right, abortions will still happen, just like they've always happened. But the law with predominantly affect the less wealthy, and will end up with a lot of living breathing human beings dying a preventable death. America is already absolutely dogshit for maternal care and many states have a genuinely gobsmacking death rate during birth.

[Iain(bobbity)]

The map of states with higher maternal death rates on wiki (on phone so not c+p ing) looks like it'll lay quite well over states with abortion bans in the offing or in place

[Hal Jordan]

Next up, in West Virginia vs EPA, the Supreme Court is likely to completely gut the federal government's ability to regulate. Another goal of the cunts ticked off.

[Tichtheid]

Next up, in West Virginia vs EPA, the Supreme Court is likely to completely gut the federal government's ability to regulate. Another goal of the cunts ticked off.

This is the thing, "My interpretation of a 2000 year old book (3000 in the case of the OT) that has gone through many translations and interpretations when, at various times, genocide and murder and slavery has been committed in its name, my interpretation of that book, which involves some pretty "out there" things to a 21st century mind, my interpretation of that book means I cannot do this that or the other"

Fine.

"But you have to live by that too, even though the constitution separates Church and State"

Well, you can fuck the fuck off, basically.

WRT the EPA, unfortunately it's not just the wingnuts who suffer from their own stupidity, and not even only their own compatriots, it's the entire planet.

[convoluted]

So this morning (NZ time) I watched the latest concocted bombshell allegation against Trump.

As the hearsay female 'witness' at the Dems laughable Jan 6 Show Trial earnestly testified, I was struck at the similarity in her facial mannerisms to those of Christine Fraud (Christine Ford, who made sexual allegations against Kavanaugh at a party whose locale she could not identify, at a date she could not identify to the nearest year, at a gathering where she named several attendees including her best friend all of whom declared that such a gathering never occurred).

And for subsequent hours this morning, exactly as with Christine Fraud, CNN pundits were in awe at how 'compelling' her evidence had been and expressed their privilege at having been present on a day of which their grandchildren would query 'Where were you when Cassidy Hutchinson' hammered that final nail into Trump's casket.

But everything screamed BS to such extent that I imagine even this forum's Usual TDS Suspects cringed at the farce.

[Gumboot]

Oh well, if it's all BS I'm sure the secret service agents and others who were close to Trump on Jan' 6 will be delighted to come forward and refute it...

...under oath.

Can't wait.

[sefton]

Wow, the science of facial mannerisms has come a long way since I studied psychology, maybe we need to call a phrenologist in to validate these fascinating insights.

[petej]

It's amazing what has happened to me. I have a genuine Internet filter that now works. I read about 4 lines of convoluted post and then my brain causes a mist to covet my eyes and I just move onto the next thing. It's amazing. Here saw an interesting thing yesterday in how the populist political figures have managed to cross market for years. In an episode of Seinfled from 1993 Giuliani appears and does a few jokes and a skit of himself running for the very office he was running for. His opponent Dinkins was reluctant to get involved and guess who won and won again. The NY TV and film set really sorted Trump and his cronies up good. Idiots

You could say the same for Johnson and rees-mogg on hignfy.
Only a matter of time before convoluted starts posting about fake moon landings, flat earth, free energy from the ether. YouTube algorithms have a lot to answer for.

[Kiwias]

It's amazing what has happened to me. I have a genuine Internet filter that now works. I read about 4 lines of convoluted post and then my brain causes a mist to covet my eyes and I just move onto the next thing. It's amazing. Here saw an interesting thing yesterday in how the populist political figures have managed to cross market for years. In an episode of Seinfled from 1993 Giuliani appears and does a few jokes and a skit of himself running for the very office he was running for. His opponent Dinkins was reluctant to get involved and guess who won and won again. The NY TV and film set really sorted Trump and his cronies up good. Idiots

The filter that kicks in after four lines is the earlier version. I highly recommend you get the latest version that automatically ignores any posts from convoluted.

[fishfoodie]

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy .... there is always footage !

New York City Mayor Eric Adams suggested Tuesday that former Mayor Rudy Giuliani be investigated for filing a false police report for claiming he was assaulted by a heckler who clapped him on the back Sunday at a Staten Island grocery store.

“Someone needs to remind former Mayor Giuliani that falsely reporting a crime is a crime," Adams told reporters, saying he'd watched security video that undercut Giuliani’s harrowing account.

Giuliani, 78, described being hit so hard it felt like being shot with a gun.

The heckler, who police said cried out “What’s up scumbag?” as he walked away from Giuliani, was arrested and spent more than 24 hours in jail before his arraignment Monday on misdemeanor charges including third-degree assault.

Adams said he thinks Staten Island District Attorney Michael McMahon “has the wrong person that he’s investigating.

“When you look at the video, the guy basically walked by and patted him on the back,” Adams said. “It was clear that he was not punched in the head. It was clear that it didn’t feel like a bullet. It was clear that he wasn’t about to fall to the ground.”

[Hal Jordan]

Next up, in West Virginia vs EPA, the Supreme Court is likely to completely gut the federal government's ability to regulate. Another goal of the cunts ticked off.

6-3 verdict comes through in favour of fucking the environment. What a proud moment for America.

Cunts.

[Hal Jordan]

Although what this is really about is ensuring corporate interests can't be regulated by Government agencies, this was just the Trojan Horse.

[Hugo]

It's depressing isn't it?

[sockwithaticket]

They've also ruled on diminishing the independence of Native American lands, which presumably is another part of the environmental smash and grab with an added bonus of being able to piss off a hitherto protected minority.

From what I've been reading this level of iconoclasm toward precedent will entirely fuck the legal system over there because so much of the law is simply precedent..

[Hal Jordan]

It's depressing isn't it?

Civil War 2 is probably actually underway as we watch the loose collection of completely different jurisdictions called the United States drift ever further apart.

[Biffer]

It's depressing isn't it?

Civil War 2 is probably actually underway as we watch the loose collection of completely different jurisdictions called the United States drift ever further apart.

You’ve got to think that parts of the Northeast and the West Coast will eventually think fuck this, let’s take our money and leave the rednecks to fuck their cousins.