For the sake of balance and openness, how many businessmen have you helped commit murder?
The Official Aotearoa Politics Thread
Perhaps Damien is not a very nice person, or has shifty eyes, or some other attribute that does not endear him to others' who purport to be honest citizens? Perhaps he's just a plum.
Collins has promised to get rid of freshwater reforms.
Sorry Judy, that's not good enough and shouldn't be on any one's book. I would have a better opinion of you if you said you were replacing the existing legislation/regulations with a functionally better version, rather than just dog whistling to the dead-heads and less government crowd (not necessarily mutually exclusive, but). Bennet blathering on about regional autonomy is a red herring, that's just your way of parking it in the regions where the issue has been avoided the most - i.e. it ain't going to happen you disingenuous prat.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... is-country
Sorry Judy, that's not good enough and shouldn't be on any one's book. I would have a better opinion of you if you said you were replacing the existing legislation/regulations with a functionally better version, rather than just dog whistling to the dead-heads and less government crowd (not necessarily mutually exclusive, but). Bennet blathering on about regional autonomy is a red herring, that's just your way of parking it in the regions where the issue has been avoided the most - i.e. it ain't going to happen you disingenuous prat.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... is-country
This is exactly why I voted (twice) for Labour last time and why I might vote Green this time. I'm not surprised Bennet is so short sighted he doesn't realise our economic wealth depends on the view our markets have of our practices and processes. We've seen the responses to regulatory regimes that are not draconian.
Election 2020: Judith Collins says freshwater regulations will be 'gone by lunchtime' and Government is 'destroying this country'
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... is-country
[...]The Government is in the process of implementing a National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management that aims to improve freshwater quality by controlling certain farm practices and setting higher standards around swimming spots.
The policy has been significantly modified before coming into effect, with a Dissolved Inorganic Nitrogen cap parked and regulations around winter grazing adjusted on Wednesday.
Collins and her agriculture spokesman David Bennett talked extensively about freshwater regulations in a Facebook live on Tuesday evening.
Bennett said that while farmers recognised the need for some sort of freshwater requirements they needed “regional autonomy” not “draconian rules that have been set in Wellington.”
“We're not going to impose regulations from Wellington that are arbitrary and across the board,” Bennett said.
Asked by Collins if “we’ll just scrap them totally” Bennett replied “they are gone by lunchtime.”
Collins then repeated: “Gone by lunchtime.”
"I'm so over people bossing everyone else around, so I think we should just 'boss out' those regulations,” Collins said.
Collins was particularly incensed about the regulations, saying the Government was “destroying the country”.
”It sounds an awful lot like the European Union. Next thing they will be paying farmers not to farm,” Collins said.
"We have to get rid of them, honestly, we have to get rid of this Government, they are destroying this country."
[...]
In a statement released on Wednesday, Bennett and Environment spokesman Scott Simpson were slightly softer on the issue, saying the regulations would be either repealed or reviewed.
“We all want improved fresh water outcomes but we have to back farmers to farm their way to better outcomes as they have been doing. Farmers must see a pathway to improve while being profitable, our rural communities and economic wealth as a country depends on it,” Bennett said.
Environment Minister David Parker said most of the country wanted rivers clean enough to swim in.
“National is trying to appeal to their evaporating base and this will shrink their vote even further,” Parker said.
“The majority of New Zealanders value the environment and want their rivers to be clean enough to swim in. Clean waterways also underpin our economy.”
Agriculture minister Damien O’Connor announced some changes to the rules on Wednesday ahead of their introduction in early September, saying some of the regulations had been unworkable.
“It became apparent that some of the regulations within the Freshwater standards – including ones around winter grazing – need to be adjusted, so we’ve done that,” O’Connor said.
“The regulations on pugging depths around fixed water troughs and gateways weren’t practical so we have made some adjustments to make them more realistic. Discrete areas around fixed water troughs and gateways have now been exempted. We’ve also amended the definition for pugging to provide more clarity.”
Asked about Collins’ comments O’Connor said it was a “stupid statement that flies in the face of what most farmers and most New Zealanders want.”
Green Party co-leader James Shaw said National had partially lost the 2017 election because of their “horrendous record on water.”
“If they want to run on a losing platform again that is up to them,” Shaw said.
Some farmers in Southland have been promising to disobey the rules.
Bennett said there was “basically a revolt going on down there” in the livestream, to which Collins replied “there should be.”
Most rivers in urban and rural areas are polluted, according to a recent report from the Ministry for the Environment.
Urban waterways make up about one per cent of New Zealand’s total river length.
Election 2020: Judith Collins says freshwater regulations will be 'gone by lunchtime' and Government is 'destroying this country'
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... is-country
[...]The Government is in the process of implementing a National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management that aims to improve freshwater quality by controlling certain farm practices and setting higher standards around swimming spots.
The policy has been significantly modified before coming into effect, with a Dissolved Inorganic Nitrogen cap parked and regulations around winter grazing adjusted on Wednesday.
Collins and her agriculture spokesman David Bennett talked extensively about freshwater regulations in a Facebook live on Tuesday evening.
Bennett said that while farmers recognised the need for some sort of freshwater requirements they needed “regional autonomy” not “draconian rules that have been set in Wellington.”
“We're not going to impose regulations from Wellington that are arbitrary and across the board,” Bennett said.
Asked by Collins if “we’ll just scrap them totally” Bennett replied “they are gone by lunchtime.”
Collins then repeated: “Gone by lunchtime.”
"I'm so over people bossing everyone else around, so I think we should just 'boss out' those regulations,” Collins said.
Collins was particularly incensed about the regulations, saying the Government was “destroying the country”.
”It sounds an awful lot like the European Union. Next thing they will be paying farmers not to farm,” Collins said.
"We have to get rid of them, honestly, we have to get rid of this Government, they are destroying this country."
[...]
In a statement released on Wednesday, Bennett and Environment spokesman Scott Simpson were slightly softer on the issue, saying the regulations would be either repealed or reviewed.
“We all want improved fresh water outcomes but we have to back farmers to farm their way to better outcomes as they have been doing. Farmers must see a pathway to improve while being profitable, our rural communities and economic wealth as a country depends on it,” Bennett said.
Environment Minister David Parker said most of the country wanted rivers clean enough to swim in.
“National is trying to appeal to their evaporating base and this will shrink their vote even further,” Parker said.
“The majority of New Zealanders value the environment and want their rivers to be clean enough to swim in. Clean waterways also underpin our economy.”
Agriculture minister Damien O’Connor announced some changes to the rules on Wednesday ahead of their introduction in early September, saying some of the regulations had been unworkable.
“It became apparent that some of the regulations within the Freshwater standards – including ones around winter grazing – need to be adjusted, so we’ve done that,” O’Connor said.
“The regulations on pugging depths around fixed water troughs and gateways weren’t practical so we have made some adjustments to make them more realistic. Discrete areas around fixed water troughs and gateways have now been exempted. We’ve also amended the definition for pugging to provide more clarity.”
Asked about Collins’ comments O’Connor said it was a “stupid statement that flies in the face of what most farmers and most New Zealanders want.”
Green Party co-leader James Shaw said National had partially lost the 2017 election because of their “horrendous record on water.”
“If they want to run on a losing platform again that is up to them,” Shaw said.
Some farmers in Southland have been promising to disobey the rules.
Bennett said there was “basically a revolt going on down there” in the livestream, to which Collins replied “there should be.”
Most rivers in urban and rural areas are polluted, according to a recent report from the Ministry for the Environment.
Urban waterways make up about one per cent of New Zealand’s total river length.
Last edited by usemame on Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6014
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
Seriously mate, it’s half way down the front fucking page.
https://notplanetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29
https://notplanetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29
Come on Judy, you need to do more than trot out the usual tired old exploitive BS disguised as Small Business policy. If a business can't get up and running without exploiting their employees, then it probably is not a good proposition regardless. The 90 day trial is a terrible idea and getting rid of mandatory meal and rest breaks is downright Dickensian.90-day trials would return, but lunchtime gone by lunchtime under National small business policy
However, it's generally not the professionals and monied this affects, but the semi-skilled and unskilled, lower wage workers, so as most National voters don't give a shit for the welfare of people not like them, it won't have an affect on National's base. I certainly hope that is give swing voters a nudge in the opposite direction though.
National really are pissing me off. I'd like them to change their shtick to give me a viable alternative, rather than going for ACT's mini America territory.
Link added: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ess-policy
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6014
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
Jesus Ted! That’s some archaic thinking there from the Nats...
and will go down a treat with a fair slice of the population who really do seem to favour simple, blatant exploitation to further their own interests.
and will go down a treat with a fair slice of the population who really do seem to favour simple, blatant exploitation to further their own interests.
It's the old foot on the throat, keep the bastards down there, rather than allowing them any hope of making it up here, mentality alright.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:46 am Jesus Ted! That’s some archaic thinking there from the Nats...
and will go down a treat with a fair slice of the population who really do seem to favour simple, blatant exploitation to further their own interests.
I also think that sort of thinking is an insult to the morals of many small business owners. Just not enough of them, unfortunately.
Don't think anyone will be heading anywhere for a while, maybe that's what they're banking on
This smiley is rather apt
National, why who else are we discussing
National have obviously been influenced by the most recent polling data which showed small businesses and self-employed as the most disaffected group, despite continued support for the Government generally. Small business works places are some of the most influential in terms of employees feeling directly the impact of policy on their own prospects and security, so National must be hoping that some of these policies resonate beyond the owners only. I’m dubious, people love their smoko and lunch breaks.
Yet beyond the headline leadership figures, the Government’s standing in the small business community has crashed and overall trust in the response has fallen somewhat. The survey showed that trust among business proprietors and the self-employed in the Government has tanked from 71 per cent in mid-July to 49 per cent in late August.
Among business managers and executives, trust has also fallen, but not as markedly: from 73 per cent in mid-July to 67 per cent in late August.
Though not necessarily their job, they will be grateful for the pittance in their hand until it stops on the 89th day.Ata Rangi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:55 am National have obviously been influenced by the most recent polling data which showed small businesses and self-employed as the most disaffected group, despite continued support for the Government generally. Small business works places are some of the most influential in terms of employees feeling directly the impact of policy on their own prospects and security, so National must be hoping that some of these policies resonate beyond the owners only. I’m dubious, people love their smoko and lunch breaks.
Yet beyond the headline leadership figures, the Government’s standing in the small business community has crashed and overall trust in the response has fallen somewhat. The survey showed that trust among business proprietors and the self-employed in the Government has tanked from 71 per cent in mid-July to 49 per cent in late August.
Among business managers and executives, trust has also fallen, but not as markedly: from 73 per cent in mid-July to 67 per cent in late August.
Interesting - sets a precedent for future runners perhaps
A bereaved mother who led her children's escape from an isolation facility in Hamilton to attend their father's tangi has been jailed for 14 days.
The 37-year-old woman and her 18-year-old daughter were both sentenced by Judge Noel Sainsbury in the Auckland District Court on Thursday afternoon.
The pair and two children, aged 17 and 12, fled the Distinction Hotel in Te Rapa on July 24 after flying in from Brisbane.
They had travelled to New Zealand, arriving on July 20, to attend the father's tangi after he suddenly and unexpectedly died.
They were located shortly afterwards and jointly charged with intentionally failing to comply with orders under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020.
The 12-year-old was not charged.
Having pleaded guilty to the charge in July, the mother and her teenage daughter made their respective cases at sentencing on Thursday afternoon.
The court heard the family tried to legally attend the tangi but their compassionate exemption application was declined, as was an alternative arrangement for the father's body to be brought to Hamilton.
"[This woman] couldn't believe the situation wasn't exceptional enough; so that the children could go to their father's funeral. His children were the most important thing to him.
"The defendant's motivation was to give her children closure and in desperation, when it looked like they were running out of time, she made the move to break out," the mother's lawyer Joseph Hamblett told the court.
The police prosecutor said while he sympathised with the woman's situation, denunciation and deterrence of such offence had to be front and centre in isolation escape cases.
Judge Sainsbury said there was an element of selfishness in the woman's offending; saying putting herself before the protection of the community "did not accord with tikanga".
The judge said New Zealand only had to look at Victoria to see the importance of adhering to Covid-19 restrictions, including complying with quarantine periods, in the face of personal hardship.
He accepted grief had likely clouded the woman's judgment and her negative tests given her a false sense of safety at the time.
However, he ended on a sentence of 14 days' imprisonment for the charge; an outcome that provoked shock and emotion from her daughter and other supporters in the public gallery.
One man sitting in the back of the court insisted he could pay a fine, pleading "she's got five kids", before saying "that's shameful" when he left the court.
The woman cried and hugged her daughter and other supporters before being led to the cells where she would be transported to prison.
Acting for the teenager, defence lawyer Michael Talbot said the 18-year-old had followed her mother's lead and had good reason to believe she did not have the novel coronavirus.
"At the time they left Brisbane there was no community transmission of Covid-19 in Brisbane and they had also passed their three-day test at the time they arrived.
"So she had no basis or reason to believe she had Covid-19 and perhaps a basis to believe she did not."
Judge Sainsbury said while this may have been the teenager's belief, it was "mistaken" as there were very good reasons the quarantine period was 14 days. Several people who have gone into managed isolation have returned positive tests at day 12, after returning negative tests at day 3.
However, the judge said the offending was at the lower end of the scale compared to someone who may break out of an isolation facility in an infected state.
The judge accepted the teenager had followed her mother's lead in a state of grief and discharged her without conviction.
"This was also a situation of very realistic grief. Your father had died suddenly and unexpectedly. I accept you had a particularly close relationship with him."
"I consider that the wish to see your father and say goodbye before his burial had an impact on overriding what might have been the sensible decision."
The maximum penalty for failing to comply with orders under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 is six months' imprisonment or a $4000 fine.
- RNZ
I drink and I forget things.
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blackblackblack
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:55 am
I think Ted's question is more relevant than the answer to the question.
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Monkey Magic
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:28 am
How does that sentence compare with the liquor store guy and the countdown selfie merchant? Given the circumstances that they actually had a tangi to get to youd think the others must be longerEnzedder wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:19 pm Interesting - sets a precedent for future runners perhaps
A bereaved mother who led her children's escape from an isolation facility in Hamilton to attend their father's tangi has been jailed for 14 days.
The 37-year-old woman and her 18-year-old daughter were both sentenced by Judge Noel Sainsbury in the Auckland District Court on Thursday afternoon.
The pair and two children, aged 17 and 12, fled the Distinction Hotel in Te Rapa on July 24 after flying in from Brisbane.
They had travelled to New Zealand, arriving on July 20, to attend the father's tangi after he suddenly and unexpectedly died.
They were located shortly afterwards and jointly charged with intentionally failing to comply with orders under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020.
The 12-year-old was not charged.
Having pleaded guilty to the charge in July, the mother and her teenage daughter made their respective cases at sentencing on Thursday afternoon.
The court heard the family tried to legally attend the tangi but their compassionate exemption application was declined, as was an alternative arrangement for the father's body to be brought to Hamilton.
"[This woman] couldn't believe the situation wasn't exceptional enough; so that the children could go to their father's funeral. His children were the most important thing to him.
"The defendant's motivation was to give her children closure and in desperation, when it looked like they were running out of time, she made the move to break out," the mother's lawyer Joseph Hamblett told the court.
The police prosecutor said while he sympathised with the woman's situation, denunciation and deterrence of such offence had to be front and centre in isolation escape cases.
Judge Sainsbury said there was an element of selfishness in the woman's offending; saying putting herself before the protection of the community "did not accord with tikanga".
The judge said New Zealand only had to look at Victoria to see the importance of adhering to Covid-19 restrictions, including complying with quarantine periods, in the face of personal hardship.
He accepted grief had likely clouded the woman's judgment and her negative tests given her a false sense of safety at the time.
However, he ended on a sentence of 14 days' imprisonment for the charge; an outcome that provoked shock and emotion from her daughter and other supporters in the public gallery.
One man sitting in the back of the court insisted he could pay a fine, pleading "she's got five kids", before saying "that's shameful" when he left the court.
The woman cried and hugged her daughter and other supporters before being led to the cells where she would be transported to prison.
Acting for the teenager, defence lawyer Michael Talbot said the 18-year-old had followed her mother's lead and had good reason to believe she did not have the novel coronavirus.
"At the time they left Brisbane there was no community transmission of Covid-19 in Brisbane and they had also passed their three-day test at the time they arrived.
"So she had no basis or reason to believe she had Covid-19 and perhaps a basis to believe she did not."
Judge Sainsbury said while this may have been the teenager's belief, it was "mistaken" as there were very good reasons the quarantine period was 14 days. Several people who have gone into managed isolation have returned positive tests at day 12, after returning negative tests at day 3.
However, the judge said the offending was at the lower end of the scale compared to someone who may break out of an isolation facility in an infected state.
The judge accepted the teenager had followed her mother's lead in a state of grief and discharged her without conviction.
"This was also a situation of very realistic grief. Your father had died suddenly and unexpectedly. I accept you had a particularly close relationship with him."
"I consider that the wish to see your father and say goodbye before his burial had an impact on overriding what might have been the sensible decision."
The maximum penalty for failing to comply with orders under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 is six months' imprisonment or a $4000 fine.
- RNZ
Perhaps that the others returned, if they did - not too sure. The daughters were excused or not charged.Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:39 am How does that sentence compare with the liquor store guy and the countdown selfie merchant? Given the circumstances that they actually had a tangi to get to youd think the others must be longer
She got off lightly imo. The others were lone offenders. This selfish woman induced her young kids to escape with the express intent of them all attending a tangi along with many more people.Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:39 amHow does that sentence compare with the liquor store guy and the countdown selfie merchant? Given the circumstances that they actually had a tangi to get to youd think the others must be longer
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6014
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
You know... it’d be good if Winnie either shut up or fucked off and joined Australian politics at last. He clearly loves them enough.
Last weekend as well. Selfish fools.
So just over 24 hrs till we start spreading coronavirus around the rest of the country, you cannot get a flight out of Auckland to Queenstown, fully booked for a week or so
Am I the only one who thinks that the inevitable is just around the corner and that fairly soon we are going to have Covid clusters popping up all over the country
Am I the only one who thinks that the inevitable is just around the corner and that fairly soon we are going to have Covid clusters popping up all over the country
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6014
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
Yeah, not as many last time, but still. My daughter has a weekend job near Aotea Square and she's less than impressed.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:55 amWhat the hell
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... g-lockdown
Jami-Lee Ross was there and offered this:
Jami-Lee Ross was there and offered this:
I’m not sure which pandemic management of his youth he is thinking of when things were done differently.“These are real New Zealanders that are standing up for our rights, standing up for freedom [and] democracy,” he said.
"This is not the country I grew up in, where [the] military are on checkpoints in and out of Auckland.”
I had a thought, let Auckland go to level 2 but still maintain the travel around the country restrictions, that way the businesses affected by level 3 can get busy again, whilst at the same time not subjecting the rest of the county to the potential of being infected by them, win win
I watched Billy Te Kahika Jr on Newshub Nation this morning. He and Ross are a confederacy of dunces.Jb1981 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:00 am https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... g-lockdown
Jami-Lee Ross was there and offered this:
I’m not sure which pandemic management of his youth he is thinking of when things were done differently.“These are real New Zealanders that are standing up for our rights, standing up for freedom [and] democracy,” he said.
"This is not the country I grew up in, where [the] military are on checkpoints in and out of Auckland.”