UK Home energy prices

[Ovals]

We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

[fishfoodie]

We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

Open fires are a complete disaster; as already said, 80%+ of the energy goes right up the chimney, & because they're so inefficient, they produce more pollution, because they don't consume the fuel, so they generate more particulates. You've almost zero conrol over the combustion process.

If you want to see the difference, get your chimney cleaned, & weight the soot removed; & then put in a proper modern stove, & do the same a year later, & learn how to set a proper fire.

The difference is astonishing.

I'd my chimney cleaned a couple of weeks ago, & burning just decently seasoned hardwood, produced feck all soot,& I wasn't at all surprised, because I knew I needed to re-learn how to set a fire, & what an efficient fire looked like; I'd been subconsciously trained that a smoldering, slow burning fire, was somehow best, when it's actually the worst.

[Ovals]

We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

Open fires are a complete disaster; as already said, 80%+ of the energy goes right up the chimney, & because they're so inefficient, they produce more pollution, because they don't consume the fuel, so they generate more particulates. You've almost zero conrol over the combustion process.

If you want to see the difference, get your chimney cleaned, & weight the soot removed; & then put in a proper modern stove, & do the same a year later, & learn how to set a proper fire.

The difference is astonishing.

I'd my chimney cleaned a couple of weeks ago, & burning just decently seasoned hardwood, produced feck all soot,& I wasn't at all surprised, because I knew I needed to re-learn how to set a fire, & what an efficient fire looked like; I'd been subconsciously trained that a smoldering, slow burning fire, was somehow best, when it's actually the worst.

My son in Law is a registered Chimney Sweep, so we aren't short of expert advice !! Our main probem is that the current opening is too small for stove - so we've got to have the existing fireplace removed - opened up and and all made good with a new Hearth etc.. Never really liked the old Fireplace/surround, so it'll be nice to make it all a bit more modern.

I'm also going to see if we can get Solar Panels installed on our roof. We're South facing so it is good from that aspect, but we have some Dormer windows that limit the available roof space. If we can get 8 panels it'd cost about £5K, and should provide about 55% of our electricty needs. Not brrilliant but will also offset the pollution from our Stove.

[Hal Jordan]

Not locally it won't.

[tabascoboy]

People who recently decided to go for a fixed rate tariff with energy companies may have a "cooling down period" to fall back on to reconsider but otherwise the new energy plan is a mixed blessing

The prime minister did not mention fixed deals in her statement.

Campaigners say the government should tell suppliers to allow people to switch without penalties, but it could end up being something customers have to negotiate. If you fixed within the last 14 days, you can cancel without charge.

[tabascoboy]

Meanwhile for the sake of saving £75m per year in the last 5, they're now looking at spending up to £2 billion to reopen the gas storage they closed down! Great job Centrica...

LONDON, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Centrica's Rough gas storage site off England's east coast has received all the regulatory approvals to start storing gas again, Britain's oil and gas regulator said on Tuesday.

Countries across Europe have been building gas stocks ahead of winter to prepare for disruptions to supply of Russian gas, but Britain has had very little storage capacity since Rough's closure in 2018.

Britain's North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA) said it had granted the required approvals and consents to Centrica Offshore UK Limited for Phase 1 of the Rough gas storage site.

Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.com
Centrica's Chief Executive Chris O'Shea said last month the company was carrying out the necessary engineering work to enable the site to reopen. read more

It would be prepared to invest 2 billion pounds ($2.33 billion) in the project, he said.

The Rough site previously provided about 70% of Britain's gas storage capacity.

Had the site been open last winter, it could have saved households about 100 pounds on their annual energy bills, O'Shea said last month.

[Glaston]

Meanwhile for the sake of saving £75m per year in the last 5, they're now looking at spending up to £2 billion to reopen the gas storage they closed down! Great job Centrica...

LONDON, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Centrica's Rough gas storage site off England's east coast has received all the regulatory approvals to start storing gas again, Britain's oil and gas regulator said on Tuesday.

Countries across Europe have been building gas stocks ahead of winter to prepare for disruptions to supply of Russian gas, but Britain has had very little storage capacity since Rough's closure in 2018.

Britain's North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA) said it had granted the required approvals and consents to Centrica Offshore UK Limited for Phase 1 of the Rough gas storage site.

Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.com
Centrica's Chief Executive Chris O'Shea said last month the company was carrying out the necessary engineering work to enable the site to reopen. read more

It would be prepared to invest 2 billion pounds ($2.33 billion) in the project, he said.

The Rough site previously provided about 70% of Britain's gas storage capacity.

Had the site been open last winter, it could have saved households about 100 pounds on their annual energy bills, O'Shea said last month.

Hindsight is wonderfull

[tabascoboy]

Energy companies don't seem to have got around to revising the variable rate tariffs that were based on OFGEM's energy price cap yet, but this is the information from GOV.UK

If you’re on a standard variable tariff
The average unit price for dual fuel customers paying by direct debit will be limited to 34.0p/kWh for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas, inclusive of VAT, from 1 October.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

Energy suppliers will adjust standard variable tariffs automatically. Customers on standard variable tariffs do not need to take any action to get the benefits of this scheme.

If you’re on a fixed tariff
If you’re on a fixed tariff at a higher rate caused by recent energy price rises, your unit prices will be reduced by 17p/kWh for electricity and 4.2p/kWh for gas.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

Energy suppliers will adjust fixed tariffs automatically. Customers on fixed tariffs do not need to take any action to get the benefits of this scheme.

Standing charges
Average standing charges will remain in line with the levels set by Ofgem for the default tariff cap from 1 October, at 46p per day for electricity and 28p per day for gas, for a typical dual fuel customer paying by direct debit.

[Hal Jordan]

So, under cover of the energy crisis, Rees-Mogg boosts his Somerset Capital investments with a dash for gas and a fracking boondoggle, spitting in the face of climate change and despite the fact it will do absolutely nothing to reduce the cost to the public of energy.

Anyone who wasn't utterly in thrall to fossil fuel donors and up to their necks in their shares would be going full tilt at firstly insulation, secondly energy reduction and finally renewables and storage as the quickest way to stop people needing to use energy in the first place, and the cheapest energy around.

[Glaston]

Meanwhile for the sake of saving £75m per year in the last 5, they're now looking at spending up to £2 billion to reopen the gas storage they closed down! Great job Centrica...

Hindsight is wonderfull

The fossil fuel industry has been hugely volatile for years. Any prick with Internet access knew this.

Gas prices in 2016 were the lowest for 20 odd years thanks to fracking in the USA.

They had been in a solid downward trend since 2008 till 2020. Not much actual volatility.

Any prick with Internet access should look at graphs of actual prices.

[tabascoboy]

Yep, hindsight is always 20/20 but check out the simple short-sightedness from the industry and Government blind faith in the market self-regulating about supply/prices that led to the decision. You'd kind of expect that worst-case scenarios should be considered, but then again I'm a pessimist by nature. After all that's what these people are paid large sums of money for every year:

Inside the ‘crazy’ decisions that left Britain with no gas storage and vulnerable to Putin

Paywalled article so extract here

“Project Discovery” was commissioned by Ofgem’s then-boss Alistair Buchanan to investigate how secure Britain’s gas supplies were. It made for startling reading.

Since the discovery of oil and gas in the North Sea in the 1960s, Britain had become increasingly dependent on the fuels, with most of its heating and a major chunk of electricity running on natural gas.

Yet with reserves getting tapped out and demand soaring, the supplies were no longer enough. In 2004, Britain became a net gas importer, a key shift that started to make officials jittery.

Calls were also growing for investment to overhaul the energy system and cut carbon emissions.

A crunch on gas supplies in 2006 when Rough was damaged by fire, and Russia’s closure of a pipeline to Ukraine in 2009 during a dispute, added to tensions.

Project Discovery warned of “unprecedented challenges, which will grow over the next two decades”, with Britain’s rising dependence on imports flagged as a key risk. More gas storage would potentially be needed by 2015, it said.
...
Being able to buy gas from Europe during a crisis wasn’t guaranteed, it added, as other member states might block exports.
...
On September 4, 2013, three months after his meeting with Stag, Fallon announced there would be no subsidies for gas storage facilities. He said the move would save bill-payers £750m over the next 10 years.

To make its case, the Government drew on analysis by the consultancy Redpoint, which ministers said had concluded that generally the “costs of intervention would far outweigh any benefit to security of supply”.

A partial finding that a new gas storage facility would have been of benefit, was glossed over. Ministers argued it would not be ready “until the 2020s”, when they expected gas supplies to be abundant.

Fallon added the UK’s storage capacity had already grown, and pointed to a further 12 projects in the pipeline. Two of them were Centrica’s proposed gas storage sites in the North Sea and East Yorkshire – Baird and Caythorpe.

Less than 10 days later, Centrica announced it was ditching the projects, blaming the Government’s decision to scrap support. Only one gas storage site now open was built after the announcement, according to Ofgem, Storengy’s Stublach in 2014.

The decision not to invest in storage infuriated heavy industrial gas users. They knew they were first in line for any cutoffs if supplies fell short, with households protected.
...
Decisions made in 2013 set the stage for what was to come. Centrica decided to shut Rough in 2017. The ageing facility was losing hundreds of millions of pounds and needed around £1bn and five years to refurbish. The Government did nothing to dissuade its owners from the closure.

Claire Perry, an energy minister from June 2017, told Labour in a letter that any state support for Rough would have “undermined” investment in other infrastructure such as LNG sites and smaller storage facilities, and risked making the market dependent on government support. Centrica had not asked for government support on upfront costs, she added.

One former senior civil servant says any support for Centrica may have required “strategic change and perhaps an admission that the earlier strategy was flawed”.
...
Sir Ed Davey, energy secretary in 2013 when the government decided not to subsidise gas storage, says Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 should have changed the way Whitehall viewed the debate.

“It was getting clearer and clearer to me that we need to revisit the [storage] issue,” he says.

“It is an insurance policy for security of supplies. I was pretty surprised when the government didn’t work with Centrica.”

Was the decision not to invest in 2013 a mistake?

“When the facts change, I change my opinion, what do you do?”, he says.

“Unfortunately, the facts did change but the government didn’t change its mind. I can’t be responsible for those people. The underlying economics haven’t changed. What’s changed is the geopolitics.”

[Insane_Homer]

[Openside]

We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

We have just ordered one of these in Almond for the Orangery. It was a no brainer when I got a letter from the Gas people saying on current usage my DD should be £982 per month Aga won't be going on this winter!!

[TB63]

Should've gone for the Saltfire Bignut 5 ...

Check out The Tortoise channel on YouTube, reviews many stoves..

[Openside]

Should've gone for the Saltfire Bignut 5 ...

Check out The Tortoise channel on YouTube, reviews many stoves..

TBH I reckon they are much of a muchness besides I liked the colour of the Charnwood

[TB63]

I guessed...

[ia801310]

Central heating went on last week.

[Openside]

I guessed...

Black would have looked too oppressive

[Blackmac]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

[petej]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Strangely high. A colleague (in Hampshire) got quoted 8k for a 3kW panels and 5kW battery. Adding a few extra panels really shouldn't increase the cost by 3k.

[weegie01]

We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

We have a Charnwood Country 8, and a Country 4. The Country range is no longer made as is does not meet modern standards. But we have always been very pleased with the Charnwoods compared to much more expensive stoves we have, especially the Dovre. The 4 always produced a staggering amount of heat, so the Airs 5 should be similar.

I am curious why vball has gone back to coal if he has wood available. We burn logs from own wood which I can churn out pretty efficiently, but only after a decent investment in chainsaws, splitter and other equipment.

[Blackmac]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Strangely high. A colleague (in Hampshire) got quoted 8k for a 3kW panels and 5kW battery. Adding a few extra panels really shouldn't increase the cost by 3k.

Actually £400 cheaper than another quote, and Costco are looking at £12800 for similar.

[C69]

I've just looked at the pricecap and my current tarrif. Jebus my gas is going up by 1/3 .
I reckon my bills are going to be at least £370 pcm. Ouch.

[vball]

I am curious why vball has gone back to coal if he has wood available. We burn logs from own wood which I can churn out pretty efficiently, but only after a decent investment in chainsaws, splitter and other equipment.

Only one reason ....I am a lazy bastard!!

[Glaston]

Just had my Oct price rise notification from Octopus.
Estimated increase is way less than forecast. Approx £130 extra/year


They are actually reducing my DD by £67

I looked into getting solar panels but unless prices rise even further they make no economic sense to me.
They seem to add little extra value if decide to sell within the 10 years or so it takes to pay off the cost.

[Raggs]

Just had my Oct price rise notification from Octopus.
Estimated increase is way less than forecast. Approx £130 extra/year


They are actually reducing my DD by £67

I looked into getting solar panels but unless prices rise even further they make no economic sense to me.
They seem to add little extra value if decide to sell within the 10 years or so it takes to pay off the cost.

If you're with octopus, look into getting a battery. Go onto their tariff with cheap overnight energy, top up at night, and use the battery during the day.

[TB63]

AA or AAA?..

[Hal Jordan]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

[Biffer]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

Yeah, for some reason people are far more analytical in their costing for things like solar panels. But they’ll just go and spunk money at a new car.

[weegie01]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

Yeah, for some reason people are far more analytical in their costing for things like solar panels. But they’ll just go and spunk money at a new car.

Who cares about the gross return? It is the net return taking into account all costs and depreciation that matters.

[Blackmac]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

I mentioned the environmental aspect initially but I just don't feel that justifies the expense at the moment and unless they make it more financially attractive I think the take up will be poor. Interestingly a friend had a similar system installed 6 years ago for less that £6500 so I think there is a fair bit of price gauging going on as well.

[fishfoodie]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

I mentioned the environmental aspect initially but I just don't feel that justifies the expense at the moment and unless they make it more financially attractive I think the take up will be poor. Interestingly a friend had a similar system installed 6 years ago for less that £6500 so I think there is a fair bit of price gauging going on as well.

China was selling PV panels at a loss for years, to just drive all opposition out of the market; it led to unsustainable prices for them, but it cleared the market of almost all competitors.

[weegie01]

I'd forgotten that we are getting a Stovax Riva 40 inset installed in our holiday let today. Not that we were getting it, just that it was today. I'd put up an image, but [image].......[/image] has not worked for any images I have tried today.

So our total woodburner complement is

Main house.
Stovax Riva 66 inset 8kw in the front sitting rooom
Charnwood Country 6 (not 8 as I said in an earlier post) 6kw in the dining room
Dovre Astroline 2CB 8kw in the back sitting room / TV room.

Summer House
Charnwood Country 4, 4kw

Offices
Mendip Woodland Large 7.5kw.

Holiday Let
Stovax Riva 40 4.9kw (replacing a Charnwood Country 4).

We have a lot of wood, and go through quite a few logs, but it means that when the electricity goes, which it does a couple of times even in a normal winter up here, we are warm, can cook on our oil Aga, and have enough power from our wee generator for basic electrics.

I have a meeting with a project manager from the Woodland Trust in a couple of weeks to discuss my tree planting plans. Depending on that, I'll be planting several thousand trees. So even though burning the wood releases a lot of carbon, I'll be more than compensating. I appreciate not many people burning logs are in that position.

[weegie01]

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

The gross return ignores the costs, which is why I said the net is return including costs is what matters.

[petej]

Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

I mentioned the environmental aspect initially but I just don't feel that justifies the expense at the moment and unless they make it more financially attractive I think the take up will be poor. Interestingly a friend had a similar system installed 6 years ago for less that £6500 so I think there is a fair bit of price gauging going on as well.

Definitely some price gouging going on.

VAT has changed it used to be 5% on solar installs now 0%. Demand is clearly outstripping supply.

[Blackmac]

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

The gross return ignores the costs, which is why I said the net is return including costs is what matters.

Very much so. My mate had a system installed about 10 years ago and reckons it pretty much paid for itself within
8 years due to the amazing feed in tariff he is still getting and is guaranteed for 25 years. On a lesser note he has just had his house valued and the surveyor reckoned that systems over 10 years old don't really add anything to the value and are actually considered a bit of a liability.

[Insane_Homer]

[TB63]

[S/Lt_Phillips]

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

The gross return ignores the costs, which is why I said the net is return including costs is what matters.

Very much so. My mate had a system installed about 10 years ago and reckons it pretty much paid for itself within
8 years due to the amazing feed in tariff he is still getting and is guaranteed for 25 years. On a lesser note he has just had his house valued and the surveyor reckoned that systems over 10 years old don't really add anything to the value and are actually considered a bit of a liability.

My experience too. The feed-in tariffs at that time were pretty healthy, and of course there's the additional benefit of not importing as much electricity (slightly more tricky to calculate accurately). I try to only use the dishwasher/washing machine/iron when the sun is shining. I also have a smart switch on the immersion heater to divert all excess generated electricity to use the hot water tank as energy storage, so I've used zero gas for hot water for the last 6 months (apart from cooking).

As for maintenance of the system: none. Replacement: the original inverter died when it was about 7 years old, so I needed to replace that (can't remember the exact cost but it was a few hundred quid).

I might be looking to move in the next few years, so I'm disappointed to hear that people see having a PV system as a bit of a liability. With 10+ years of guaranteed income from FIT and only the occasional replacement of the inverter (literally plug it in, no electrician required), why is that a negative?

[tabascoboy]

Germany nationalises gas giant amid energy crisis

Germany is to nationalise gas giant Uniper in an effort to secure energy supplies amid the war in Ukraine.

The deal will see the German government take on a 98.5% stake in the firm at a cost of €8.5bn (£7.4bn).

Germany is Europe's biggest importer of Russian gas, and has been particularly squeezed as Russia has reduced supplies in recent months.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62980158