Quitting the bottle

Where goats go to escape
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Kiwias
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Ymx wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:45 pm I should add, the app above is good, but if honest I don’t do the meditation parts of it. The American lady on it, her accent is a bit annoying.



I sometimes feel when I read back what I write above about my experiences and lessons I encountered, I can’t but help feel like it comes across in a patronising way. I’m really not meaning it to be, so sorry if it comes over like that.



Because this thread is pinned, sadly I don’t see some of the new entries. However, I only just discovered you can subscribe to a thread.

Click on the spanner/tools item at the top of this thread, and click subscribe. And apparently you get notifications- like when someone quotes your post.

Hopefully it works !
Ymx

I don't think you need to worry too much because that comment applies to all of us on here in differing degrees. We are all describing our experiences and the perspective naturally changes over time. I keep a journal of what I discuss at my group meetings and it is highly instructive to read back over it occasionally to see how I have changed and grown through my sobriety.
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Kiwias
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Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:04 am There’s some really interesting stuff here and two things particularly struck a chord with me - tolerance and escalation.
Reading through and considering this is a rugby bored I have a suspicion this may be related to the company that a lot of us keep.

How much I drink has been on my mind for a while but Saturday night brought it into focus. We had a largeish party where we had a smattering of all our combined friendship groups. Everyone there drinks but it was very much evident that the guys I know through cricket and rugby were drinking at probably double the rate of everyone else. A few of my fiancee’s friends stayed over afterwards and they absolutely could not believe that after the amount I had drunk I was up at 8, cleaning up and with barely any ill effects. I’d have probably considered that a badge of honour at 21, but now it’s a bit of a wake up call.

Again, these people drink, but they don’t ‘drink’. What’s considered normal in men’s sports environments is actually not normal at all. Probably obvious but it never really occurred to me before.

Like a lot of people on here, I’m perfectly capable of not drinking or having a casual drink or two. My challenge is that if there is any potential for escalation I am the first in line and am capable of *really* escalating.
Tolerance comes in at this stage. If bad things happen when I drink too much I’m sure I’d have stopped. I drunk drove once when I was 19 and hand on heart have never done so again. I got beaten up once on a night out and again, it was absolutely not my fault, I was wearing the same shirt as someone who had got too close to a drugged up man’s gf and he decked me from behind.
Broadly, I’ve never had to worry overly about being very drunk because I’m a happy drunk and once I’ve had way too much I go to sleep. So a confrontation with this has never been forced.

Other reasons for looking at this? As alluded to earlier I’m getting married next year and the future Mrs PB deserves better than being married to a heavy drinker. A significant chunk of her family are Glaswegian and probably unsurprisingly there are some absolute horror stories from there with drink. So when I’m waking up on a mate’s sofa Sunday morning as we’ve decided to drink whisky and watch the ‘03 World Cup final/‘05 Ashes back on youtube after the clubhouse has closed, she’s reminded of people picked out of the Clyde, bankruptcies and parallel lives.
I owe it to her to sort this out and am attempting to start now.
My aim is to reset my relationship with drink. I enjoy a pint or a glass of wine but would like a couple to genuinely mean that, with a rare exception. My aim is to not have a drink until I go to Twickenham in the autumn, there’s zero danger of me not drinking there but my hope is that managing other social events and a holiday without alcohol in the mean time will allow me to not give up but be able to genuinely drink in moderation. Maybe, as a few have alluded to on here, that will prove a forlorn hope.
PB

Damned fine post, if I may say so. You have made a very smart decision to review your relationship with alcohol and I wish you luck.

As others have commented, I warn against creating overly-high expectations and goals right from the get-go. Work in small steps, a day at a time, and celebrate the small victories. Your relationship with the future Mrs PB will only improve as a result.

Look forward to seeing you here whenever you want a chat.
Canes4Eva
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almost 5 weeks into being completely alcohol free...was drinking the equivalent of 24-30 standard drinks over a week, split over 4-6 days a week and needing the hit to unwind after work.
Can't say I've noticed any great health benefits but I do have better family time. Can't avoid those demons though, but it does make you think about what triggers the overwhelming need for a drink (not a lot) and what else you can do. Just the start of a journey I hope
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Kiwias
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Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:51 am almost 5 weeks into being completely alcohol free...was drinking the equivalent of 24-30 standard drinks over a week, split over 4-6 days a week and needing the hit to unwind after work.
Can't say I've noticed any great health benefits but I do have better family time. Can't avoid those demons though, but it does make you think about what triggers the overwhelming need for a drink (not a lot) and what else you can do. Just the start of a journey I hope
Good call, mate, and I wonder what triggered you to go alcohol-free. How bad are the demons and what have you put in place to help you resist their siren call?
Canes4Eva
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Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 am
Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:51 am almost 5 weeks into being completely alcohol free...was drinking the equivalent of 24-30 standard drinks over a week, split over 4-6 days a week and needing the hit to unwind after work.
Can't say I've noticed any great health benefits but I do have better family time. Can't avoid those demons though, but it does make you think about what triggers the overwhelming need for a drink (not a lot) and what else you can do. Just the start of a journey I hope
Good call, mate, and I wonder what triggered you to go alcohol-free. How bad are the demons and what have you put in place to help you resist their siren call?
Thanks Kiwias. The main reason is health - being an older parent I want to see my kids grow up and be active/positive in their life. Blood test results were not great - but liver function seemed OK. Also, it was affecting my family life - me being tired grumpy & withdrawn.

Triggers are usually something going pear -shaped at work, I don't handle stress that well & then catastrophise, can't think of anything else, and the negative internal dialogue starts... .and affects my mood at home

I try to exercise or focus on other stuff, playing with kids / gardening/reading a book when I get time to take my mind off things.
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Kiwias
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Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 am
Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:51 am almost 5 weeks into being completely alcohol free...was drinking the equivalent of 24-30 standard drinks over a week, split over 4-6 days a week and needing the hit to unwind after work.
Can't say I've noticed any great health benefits but I do have better family time. Can't avoid those demons though, but it does make you think about what triggers the overwhelming need for a drink (not a lot) and what else you can do. Just the start of a journey I hope
Good call, mate, and I wonder what triggered you to go alcohol-free. How bad are the demons and what have you put in place to help you resist their siren call?
Thanks Kiwias. The main reason is health - being an older parent I want to see my kids grow up and be active/positive in their life. Blood test results were not great - but liver function seemed OK. Also, it was affecting my family life - me being tired grumpy & withdrawn.

Triggers are usually something going pear -shaped at work, I don't handle stress that well & then catastrophise, can't think of anything else, and the negative internal dialogue starts... .and affects my mood at home

I try to exercise or focus on other stuff, playing with kids / gardening/reading a book when I get time to take my mind off things.
You have some very strong positive drivers that will serve you well. I can bet that your wife will be incredibly grateful for your having made this decision, and your kids will too. The health benefits will start to appear, without fear.

Good luck and you are always welcome here for a chat or advice from the decent number of people who have made the same decision and are making their lives much better.
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Ymx
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Kiwias wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:15 am
Ymx wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:45 pm I should add, the app above is good, but if honest I don’t do the meditation parts of it. The American lady on it, her accent is a bit annoying.



I sometimes feel when I read back what I write above about my experiences and lessons I encountered, I can’t but help feel like it comes across in a patronising way. I’m really not meaning it to be, so sorry if it comes over like that.



Because this thread is pinned, sadly I don’t see some of the new entries. However, I only just discovered you can subscribe to a thread.

Click on the spanner/tools item at the top of this thread, and click subscribe. And apparently you get notifications- like when someone quotes your post.

Hopefully it works !
Ymx

I don't think you need to worry too much because that comment applies to all of us on here in differing degrees. We are all describing our experiences and the perspective naturally changes over time. I keep a journal of what I discuss at my group meetings and it is highly instructive to read back over it occasionally to see how I have changed and grown through my sobriety.
Thanks kiwias.

And you’re dead right about how perspective changes.

This thread is a journal for all of us to some extent.
Canes4Eva
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Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:26 am
Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 am

Good call, mate, and I wonder what triggered you to go alcohol-free. How bad are the demons and what have you put in place to help you resist their siren call?
Thanks Kiwias. The main reason is health - being an older parent I want to see my kids grow up and be active/positive in their life. Blood test results were not great - but liver function seemed OK. Also, it was affecting my family life - me being tired grumpy & withdrawn.

Triggers are usually something going pear -shaped at work, I don't handle stress that well & then catastrophise, can't think of anything else, and the negative internal dialogue starts... .and affects my mood at home

I try to exercise or focus on other stuff, playing with kids / gardening/reading a book when I get time to take my mind off things.
You have some very strong positive drivers that will serve you well. I can bet that your wife will be incredibly grateful for your having made this decision, and your kids will too. The health benefits will start to appear, without fear.

Good luck and you are always welcome here for a chat or advice from the decent number of people who have made the same decision and are making their lives much better.
Thanks again Kiwias

My wife is not aware of the extent of my (sly) drinking (she never drinks) but is aware I have stopped and supportive. It can be confronting facing up to my shortcomings rather than drinking them away, while trying to find the right balance between self-acceptance & self-improvement.

Actually in terms of health benefits I have noticed a significant drop in my resting pulse (down about 10 beats/min).
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Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:14 pm
Thanks again Kiwias

My wife is not aware of the extent of my (sly) drinking (she never drinks) but is aware I have stopped and supportive. It can be confronting facing up to my shortcomings rather than drinking them away, while trying to find the right balance between self-acceptance & self-improvement.

Actually in terms of health benefits I have noticed a significant drop in my resting pulse (down about 10 beats/min).
I bet she knows, even if it is not down to the exact amount you are drinking to the last drop. We all think we are being soooooo smart and careful to conceal our drinking but in my own experience and from talking to the families of members of my group, the wives, mothers, sisters knew all along but could not say anything because we would get all defensive. That was definitely true for me.
Monkey Magic
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Hey team just a random Sunday morning mind dump.

3 weeks in, I've had a couple social/work situations since I first posted which were booze focused and usually something I'd be into. One was easy to get through, the other felt pretty uncomfortable but still got through it. That was the feeling, getting through it rather than enjoying being with people, but definitely enjoyed the good nights sleep and hangover free next day.

First ever counseling session under the belt as well. Some logical things pointed out around drinking. It's not necessarily the drinking, but that at the moment that drinking is my only release which is dangerous. So I need a really serious look at how I'm living, find some time to just do something once a week which I enjoy, not just work/home admin/sleep/repeat.

Anyone got any ideas for enjoyable and preferably cheap/free hobbies? I've pretty much stopped playing golf due to money and time, already do some running but that's about it.

At the moment I still know I'm still not close to being able to 'safely' drink and who knows of I will, but I'm ok with that.
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Kiwias
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Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:35 pm Hey team just a random Sunday morning mind dump.

3 weeks in, I've had a couple social/work situations since I first posted which were booze focused and usually something I'd be into. One was easy to get through, the other felt pretty uncomfortable but still got through it. That was the feeling, getting through it rather than enjoying being with people, but definitely enjoyed the good nights sleep and hangover free next day.

First ever counseling session under the belt as well. Some logical things pointed out around drinking. It's not necessarily the drinking, but that at the moment that drinking is my only release which is dangerous. So I need a really serious look at how I'm living, find some time to just do something once a week which I enjoy, not just work/home admin/sleep/repeat.

Anyone got any ideas for enjoyable and preferably cheap/free hobbies? I've pretty much stopped playing golf due to money and time, already do some running but that's about it.

At the moment I still know I'm still not close to being able to 'safely' drink and who knows of I will, but I'm ok with that.
MM

What I found was a huge help was exercise. I always did a bit of jogging to help keep in shape but once I stopped drinking, I continued the daily 20~30min runs but then did a 15km run once a week. I also spent more time in the gym working out
Monkey Magic
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Thanks Kiwias.

Yeah the running I'm kind of doing, gym work I've dropped off as the bank was going through our spending when we did mortgage applications earlier in the year.

Will have to bite the bullet and find a cheap one I'll actually use
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Monkey Magic wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:35 am Thanks Kiwias.

Yeah the running I'm kind of doing, gym work I've dropped off as the bank was going through our spending when we did mortgage applications earlier in the year.

Will have to bite the bullet and find a cheap one I'll actually use
I was lucky in that we have a very well-equipped public gym a five-minute walk away that costs bugger all.
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Ymx
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Monkey Magic wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:35 am Thanks Kiwias.

Yeah the running I'm kind of doing, gym work I've dropped off as the bank was going through our spending when we did mortgage applications earlier in the year.

Will have to bite the bullet and find a cheap one I'll actually use
I just enjoy walking every day, tbh.

And with the spare time in the evenings, forgetting exercise, watching some good old Netflix, prime, rather than just dozing off on the sofa I used to do.

Also, find yourself a stock drink you enjoy. Not water, or anything too sugary. So you can sip (or glug) away at during the evening. I quite like slightly flavoured sparkling water myself. I’d steer away from AF drinks though.
Canes4Eva
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Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:22 pm
Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:14 pm
Thanks again Kiwias

My wife is not aware of the extent of my (sly) drinking (she never drinks) but is aware I have stopped and supportive. It can be confronting facing up to my shortcomings rather than drinking them away, while trying to find the right balance between self-acceptance & self-improvement.

Actually in terms of health benefits I have noticed a significant drop in my resting pulse (down about 10 beats/min).
I bet she knows, even if it is not down to the exact amount you are drinking to the last drop. We all think we are being soooooo smart and careful to conceal our drinking but in my own experience and from talking to the families of members of my group, the wives, mothers, sisters knew all along but could not say anything because we would get all defensive. That was definitely true for me.
Kiwias, you could well be right there in my case as well. Appreciate you sharing the insights and the support. I don't feel the slightest urge to drink at the moment, that can change when the chips are down and I don't have another crutch or coping mechanism. Like others are saying, exercise helps.
Slick
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Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 am
Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:51 am almost 5 weeks into being completely alcohol free...was drinking the equivalent of 24-30 standard drinks over a week, split over 4-6 days a week and needing the hit to unwind after work.
Can't say I've noticed any great health benefits but I do have better family time. Can't avoid those demons though, but it does make you think about what triggers the overwhelming need for a drink (not a lot) and what else you can do. Just the start of a journey I hope
Good call, mate, and I wonder what triggered you to go alcohol-free. How bad are the demons and what have you put in place to help you resist their siren call?
Thanks Kiwias. The main reason is health - being an older parent I want to see my kids grow up and be active/positive in their life. Blood test results were not great - but liver function seemed OK. Also, it was affecting my family life - me being tired grumpy & withdrawn.

Triggers are usually something going pear -shaped at work, I don't handle stress that well & then catastrophise, can't think of anything else, and the negative internal dialogue starts... .and affects my mood at home

I try to exercise or focus on other stuff, playing with kids / gardening/reading a book when I get time to take my mind off things.
Hi C4E, sounds like we are in a similar position. Also an older dad and my main driver is spending more quality time with the kids, and it's working.

The first couple of times I stopped I used the stress/bad day/bad luck reasons for getting back on it but I have to say that this time (11 weeks in) it doesn't really even cross my mind. I've just had my two most stressful days of the year with work, which has ended with being invited out for multiple drinks and it wasn't an option that came into my head to drink.

The health benefits take a few weeks to start feeling properly, and I've been told by a few people that it's about a year before you start skipping through life (or similar)... but I'm doing a lot more exercise, sleeping much better and weight is beginning to come off.

Something I thought I'd share is that I've joined a cold water/wild swimming group in the last few weeks and I've found the benefits from that absolutely incredible. The group was set up as a mens mental health group but there are folk there for all different reasons. There is one main group dip a week - about 50 blokes on a Sunday - and then smaller group ones organised through the week. I'm normally dipping 3/4 times a week and each time the stresses and strains disappear. The relation to this thread is that there are quite a few guys that have gone sober and chatting about it while bobbing about in the water is a great help. Also, when I do have those stressful triggers, I just message the group and there is always someone needing a dip which takes it all away.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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Ymx
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That’s really cool Slick.

I’ve started getting in to cold showers. Wim Hoff stuff, if you’ve heard of the guy.

As someone prone to anxiety, I first tried his breathing/breath holding. It’s brilliant.

It’s basically (lie/sit)
30 deep breaths
Then empty lungs and hold breath for a minute/half
Then take a deep breath in

The feeling is amazing, massive buzz if you do decent deep belly breaths for the 30. The breathe in after breath hold gives a massive buzz. Especially after the 3rd round.

Just find somewhere quiet to sit down or lie down.

Don’t be put off by the way, by the picture of video below. It’s purely animated instructions. And you don’t need to get your hairy chests out

Slick
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I'm just waiting for my wife to finish the Wim Hoff book!

He did a series in the UK with a load of 'slebs which was actually pretty good. Anyway, whatever the book says I'm a convert already, have genuinely found it transformative and almost crave it - I'm in Aberdeen for work and have found a local group to meet with tomorrow morning for a dip. Started off with the cold showers that he suggests and its gone from there.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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Ymx
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Oh brilliant. I might have to do the same and take the next step.

Though the lakes aren’t pleasant in these parts/not cold enough currently.

How did you find the group? Online?

Is this the sort of thing?
https://run-surrey-hills.clubtrac.co.uk ... oject-8081
Canes4Eva
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Slick wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:51 pm
Canes4Eva wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 am

Good call, mate, and I wonder what triggered you to go alcohol-free. How bad are the demons and what have you put in place to help you resist their siren call?
Thanks Kiwias. The main reason is health - being an older parent I want to see my kids grow up and be active/positive in their life. Blood test results were not great - but liver function seemed OK. Also, it was affecting my family life - me being tired grumpy & withdrawn.

Triggers are usually something going pear -shaped at work, I don't handle stress that well & then catastrophise, can't think of anything else, and the negative internal dialogue starts... .and affects my mood at home

I try to exercise or focus on other stuff, playing with kids / gardening/reading a book when I get time to take my mind off things.
Hi C4E, sounds like we are in a similar position. Also an older dad and my main driver is spending more quality time with the kids, and it's working.

The first couple of times I stopped I used the stress/bad day/bad luck reasons for getting back on it but I have to say that this time (11 weeks in) it doesn't really even cross my mind. I've just had my two most stressful days of the year with work, which has ended with being invited out for multiple drinks and it wasn't an option that came into my head to drink.

The health benefits take a few weeks to start feeling properly, and I've been told by a few people that it's about a year before you start skipping through life (or similar)... but I'm doing a lot more exercise, sleeping much better and weight is beginning to come off.

Something I thought I'd share is that I've joined a cold water/wild swimming group in the last few weeks and I've found the benefits from that absolutely incredible. The group was set up as a mens mental health group but there are folk there for all different reasons. There is one main group dip a week - about 50 blokes on a Sunday - and then smaller group ones organised through the week. I'm normally dipping 3/4 times a week and each time the stresses and strains disappear. The relation to this thread is that there are quite a few guys that have gone sober and chatting about it while bobbing about in the water is a great help. Also, when I do have those stressful triggers, I just message the group and there is always someone needing a dip which takes it all away.
Thanks for sharing Slick. Cold water sounds interesting - I might just try that when under the pump.
A year is a long time for health benefits to emerge! But good to have a longer term potential carrot there....
Slick
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Ymx wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:42 pm Oh brilliant. I might have to do the same and take the next step.

Though the lakes aren’t pleasant in these parts/not cold enough currently.

How did you find the group? Online?

Is this the sort of thing?
https://run-surrey-hills.clubtrac.co.uk ... oject-8081
Ours is the Edinburgh Blue Balls. There is a nationwide one called the Bluetits and also a few called Ice Men
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Ymx
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:lol:
Slick
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Ymx wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:30 pm:lol:
Great name isn’t it? You should see the logo and the budgie smugglers!
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Kiwias
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All the comments about deep breathing and the benefits it offers got me thinking that since I started yoga, I find myself far more calm and balanced mentally, My teacher spends a lot of time on our breathing and recommends doing the breathing we start ever session with whenever I feel unsettled and it works.
Slick
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Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 am All the comments about deep breathing and the benefits it offers got me thinking that since I started yoga, I find myself far more calm and balanced mentally, My teacher spends a lot of time on our breathing and recommends doing the breathing we start ever session with whenever I feel unsettled and it works.
How long have you been doing it for? I think i'd find it really beneficial but haven't had the balls to get into it yet - mainly because I am outrageously unsupple
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Kiwias
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Slick wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:32 pm
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 am All the comments about deep breathing and the benefits it offers got me thinking that since I started yoga, I find myself far more calm and balanced mentally, My teacher spends a lot of time on our breathing and recommends doing the breathing we start ever session with whenever I feel unsettled and it works.
How long have you been doing it for? I think i'd find it really beneficial but haven't had the balls to get into it yet - mainly because I am outrageously unsupple
I have been having two sessions a week (one with my wife and one just with the teacher, she comes to our house) for six years now. Suppleness comes through the continued practice. I have improved my flexibility significantly.
Slick
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Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:51 pm
Slick wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:32 pm
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 am All the comments about deep breathing and the benefits it offers got me thinking that since I started yoga, I find myself far more calm and balanced mentally, My teacher spends a lot of time on our breathing and recommends doing the breathing we start ever session with whenever I feel unsettled and it works.
How long have you been doing it for? I think i'd find it really beneficial but haven't had the balls to get into it yet - mainly because I am outrageously unsupple
I have been having two sessions a week (one with my wife and one just with the teacher, she comes to our house) for six years now. Suppleness comes through the continued practice. I have improved my flexibility significantly.
Thanks. Have booked a first session next week.
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Kiwias
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Slick wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:55 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:51 pm
Slick wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:32 pm

How long have you been doing it for? I think i'd find it really beneficial but haven't had the balls to get into it yet - mainly because I am outrageously unsupple
I have been having two sessions a week (one with my wife and one just with the teacher, she comes to our house) for six years now. Suppleness comes through the continued practice. I have improved my flexibility significantly.
Thanks. Have booked a first session next week.
:thumbup:
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Ymx
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A friend of mine, who was equally drinky as me had stopped 3 months ago. He had said to me - that was it, he has completely binned drinking. You already know where this is going ….

His mood improved remarkably. He lost a couple of stone.

Though, more recently, it was a few weeks back his mood had changed back, I noted. Early this week he said he had a glass of white with his wife (in the weekend), and mentioned that he was looking at a 24 hour rule. Would allow himself 24 hours. So span Saturday evening and Sunday lunch. He said he never aimed to give up for good, just a patch for his health.

He ended up drinking every day that week. Familiar heavy day time drinking, with gaviscon close to hand.

My guess is he was secretly drinking some weeks back, but decided he could not conceal it from everyone for any longer, so came out with the above.

Saw him at end of week, and he said he now remembers why he stopped drinking and he intends to quit after the week is out.

I’m afraid I don’t hold much hope. Someone really meaning it does it then and there.

When he next reaches the point where he feels as bad, and stops, I will just be there, and again encourage him to actually see someone this time.
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Kiwias
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Ymx wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:43 am A friend of mine, who was equally drinky as me had stopped 3 months ago. He had said to me - that was it, he has completely binned drinking. You already know where this is going ….

His mood improved remarkably. He lost a couple of stone.

Though, more recently, it was a few weeks back his mood had changed back, I noted. Early this week he said he had a glass of white with his wife (in the weekend), and mentioned that he was looking at a 24 hour rule. Would allow himself 24 hours. So span Saturday evening and Sunday lunch. He said he never aimed to give up for good, just a patch for his health.

He ended up drinking every day that week. Familiar heavy day time drinking, with gaviscon close to hand.

My guess is he was secretly drinking some weeks back, but decided he could not conceal it from everyone for any longer, so came out with the above.

Saw him at end of week, and he said he now remembers why he stopped drinking and he intends to quit after the week is out.

I’m afraid I don’t hold much hope. Someone really meaning it does it then and there.

When he next reaches the point where he feels as bad, and stops, I will just be there, and again encourage him to actually see someone this time.
As a good friend, that is the best thing you can do for him. It must be very frustrating to be unable to do anything further. I wish you luck.
Slick
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Kiwias wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:38 am
Slick wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:55 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:51 pm

I have been having two sessions a week (one with my wife and one just with the teacher, she comes to our house) for six years now. Suppleness comes through the continued practice. I have improved my flexibility significantly.
Thanks. Have booked a first session next week.
:thumbup:
Ouch.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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Kiwias
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Slick wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:37 am
Kiwias wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:38 am
Slick wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:55 am

Thanks. Have booked a first session next week.
:thumbup:
Ouch.
my misguided impression of yoga was that it was a gentle, relaxed series of movements intended to improve flexibility. Only after starting it did I realise that each pose tests your own limits.

Ouch indeed.
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Ymx
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Slick wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:37 am
Kiwias wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:38 am
Slick wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:55 am

Thanks. Have booked a first session next week.
:thumbup:
Ouch.
Speaking of ouch.

This blue balls thing.

How long do you stay in the water for? What kind of temp is it at the moment?

I did a cold shower last night for I’d say around 10 mins.

But as you know, once you hit about 1 or 2 mins, you’ve got it.

I actually couldn’t feel my skin afterwards when drying myself.
Slick
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Ymx wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:07 am
Slick wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:37 am
Kiwias wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:38 am

:thumbup:
Ouch.
Speaking of ouch.

This blue balls thing.

How long do you stay in the water for? What kind of temp is it at the moment?

I did a cold shower last night for I’d say around 10 mins.

But as you know, once you hit about 1 or 2 mins, you’ve got it.

I actually couldn’t feel my skin afterwards when drying myself.
The warmest it gets over the summer where I am (Edinburgh) is about 18/19 C, and would usually stay in for about 20 minutes. It’s dropping quite rapidly at the moment and is about 12/13 for this mornings dip. I haven’t done a winter yet but someone last week was saying the general rule of thumb is 1 minute per degree and it goes down to about 5/6.

10 minutes in a cold shower is quite a long time!
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Ymx
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But with a shower you can only really do one side. It’s not like in the water where you get attacked by the cold from your whole body at once.

I find myself spinning around in the shower trying to get a cold all over sensation.

I’m really keen to try this cold dipping.

I used to do swimming in one of the lakes, but with a wetsuit on. This is a very different proposition
Harveys
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Ymx wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:00 pm Is this what is used in AA? Or is this a very religious edition.


What Are the Principles in the 12 Steps of AA?



Step 1: Honesty

“We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.”

The first step in AA is about admitting your powerlessness, which boils down to a level of honesty that many addicts haven’t reached until now. Many people under the spell of addiction or alcoholism think that “it’s not that bad” or that they can “stop at any time.”

It’s almost counterintuitive: The way to be released from the power addiction has over you is to admit how truly powerless you are. Carrying honestly forward in your sobriety doesn’t focus on being honest to others, but to yourself.



Step 2: Hope

“Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.”

Step 2 is about finding faith in some higher power, and the accompanying principle of hope means that you should never give up that faith, even when you suffer a setback.

This virtue is easy to understand when it comes to practicing it on a daily basis. In recovery, not every moment will be positive, but if you keep that hope and faith alive, you’ll come back out on the other side.



Step 3: Surrender

“Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.”

In Steps 1 and 2, AA instructs members to strip themselves bare of ego and power. Step 3 involves putting yourself at the mercy of this higher power and moving forward for “Him” — or whatever your higher power may be — over the selfishness of addiction.

The way to carry this principle forward is to always remind yourself that you’re at the mercy of a higher power, and you don’t come first.



Step 4: Courage

“Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.”

Step 4, which involves documenting every mistake you’ve ever made, is clearly tied to courage. Some of your past will be painful, and you’ll likely have to face some of your biggest regrets.

Living with courage means that you can start fresh without forgetting your past completely.



Step 5: Integrity

“Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.”

Step 5 is about taking the moral inventory made in step 4 and admitting first to God, next to yourself, and last to another person.

You can practice integrity in your recovery by talking through everything that you feel guilty about and your mistakes. Basically, having integrity is to live honestly.



Step 6: Willingness

“Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.”

In step 6, you have to prepare for your sins to be taken away by admitting to yourself that you’re fully ready to move past them.

Willingness as a virtue means you have to be ready to be absolved so that you can move forward without looking back. You should have willingness in everything you do.



Step 7: Humility

“Humbly ask Him to remove our shortcomings.”

In step 4, you made a catalog of your past, and in step 6, you admitted them and released yourself from the guilt and shame. Step 7 is being willing to be released from your past. In step 8, you ask God, or another higher power, for forgiveness.

Humility is one of the simplest principles to understand because it’s straightforward. When you’re humble, you’re cognizant of the fact that you’re not a major part of the bigger picture. Humility in daily practice means never seeing yourself as more important than you are.



Step 8: Love

“Made a list of all the persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to all of them.”

Love is empathy and compassion, and Step 8 asks you to make a list of everyone you’ve wronged in your journey to where you are now. That’s not all, though. You also have to be willing to make amends, which shows that you truly care for the people on your list.

Practicing your sobriety with the principle of love means that you’re not just existing for yourself but in service to the people you care about.



Step 9: Responsibility

“Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.”

By Step 9, you’ve forgiven yourself for your past. Now you need to make amends to others so that you can start fresh with them as well.

The principle of responsibility is reflected directly in this step, and practicing in life is clear: If you hope to remain close with those around you, you must be honest and open about your mistakes that impacted them.



Step 10: Discipline

“Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.”

Step 10 relates to its own principle very clearly. It’s one thing to take personal inventory and admit our wrongs one time. It takes discipline to continue to do this over an entire lifetime.



Step 11: Awareness

“Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.”

Step 11 is about moving forward without losing track of a higher power. The continued awareness this demands makes it easy to pair the step with its accompanying principle.

Living with awareness means always paying attention to the higher power that guides you.



Step 12: Service

“ Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.”

The final Step of AA is to pay it forward. You’ve worked your way through the entire process of growing and setting yourself up for success in sobriety, and now you have the opportunity to guide less experienced members through their own journey. Living with the principle of service means it’s your responsibility to help others as you were helped when you first started to work the 12 steps.

Yes, while this is not AA literature, its not miles away from it. AA stresses there is no requirement to believe anything to participate and this is true however AA was born out of the Oxford groups which was an evangelical Christian movement and one of Bills closest spiritual advisors was a Jesuit priest. The literature is laced with “God” and “higher power talk”.

An AA group or meeting isn’t some universally consistent thing that’s the same everywhere. One group to another can be extremely different, ranging from secular free thinker’s groups to hard core fundamentalist loon groups with the vast majority being groups of regular people supporting each other to stay sober through love and service to each other with out to much fuss.

If your curious read the big book.
Last edited by Harveys on Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kiwias
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Harveys wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:19 am
Yes, while this is not AA literature, its not miles away from it. AA stresses there is no requirement to believe anything to participate and this is true however AA was born out of the Oxford groups which was an evangelical Christian movement and One of Bills closest spiritual advisors was a Jesuit priest. The literature is laced with “God” and “higher power talk”.

An AA group or meeting isn’t some universally consistent thing that’s the same everywhere. One group to another can be extremely different, ranging from secular free thinker’s groups to hard core fundamentalist loon groups with the vast majority being groups of regular people supporting each other to stay sober through love and service to each other with out to much fuss.

If your curious read the big book.
My home group here is part of an organisation similar to AA but founded on a totally secular basis. That said, I have attended several AA and Al-Anon meetings with my son when visiting NZ and the group I attend is very secular, with almost no mention of "god" at any point in any of the meetings.
Last edited by Kiwias on Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Slick
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Ymx wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:45 am But with a shower you can only really do one side. It’s not like in the water where you get attacked by the cold from your whole body at once.

I find myself spinning around in the shower trying to get a cold all over sensation.

I’m really keen to try this cold dipping.

I used to do swimming in one of the lakes, but with a wetsuit on. This is a very different proposition
As I’ve said, I massively recommend it from a getting off the booze and mental health perspective, plus I’ve lost a fair bit of weight since I’ve started - not sure how directly linked it is.

This morning was chilly with a long walk out and back due to tide, but was in for just under 20 mins and feel great
This was a recent dip:
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Canes4Eva
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I found this article quite inspiring

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/a- ... NFdPzixsgs
Slick
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Canes4Eva wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:33 pm I found this article quite inspiring

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/a- ... NFdPzixsgs
It got there eventually! But yes, loved those last couple of paragraphs.

I thank whoever it was that blocked my transfer to a journalism course at uni all those years ago. I’m pretty sure I’d be dead from alcohol and drugs by now if I had gone into that career
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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