I think the Springbok player depth is at a historical high. Except for the flyhalf position. I would say that Erasmus/Nienaber are probably great man managers but really average coaches. Just like Heyneke Meyer they have squads full of experience and talent. They've under-achieved._Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:30 pmEddie Jones just lost to the Pumas at home in November. The Pumas have had 4 shots at us through 2021 and 2022 ("since the RWC" sounds bigger than it is, the season we're in is the only uninterrupted one since then), how many times did the Pumas beat the Boks over those 4 matches? Wales just got destroyed by the All Blacks at home in November, again what has been our record against the ABs and Wales.FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:15 pm I hope they win, but do you not think that the Boks have underperformed results wise since the RWC? Overall Eddie Jones and even Ian Foster have much better win ratios than Erasmus and Nienaber combined or individually. How else do you judge coaches? Sure Nienaber is bringing in new talent but our game is not evolving at all.
The Boks won the Lions Series in 2021 and this season got beaten in the RC by a single log point. If Eddie Jones' England is going better than the Boks over the last two seasons, then can you point to what they've won, what are their 6N log placings?
I can't help you if you're going on win ratio and ignoring the actual matches and results, who is winning competitions and who isn't. Crazy this conversation is even happening.
Week 3 France vs Springbokke
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FalseBayFC
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The player depth was much greater in the Peter de Villiers and HM period. HM won nothing chief, people kept hammering on about his "win ratio", ignoring he never beat the best teams. The Boks have beaten the ABs more in the last 2 seasons than HM did in 4.FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:51 pm I think the Springbok player depth is at a historical high. Except for the flyhalf position. I would say that Erasmus/Nienaber are probably great man managers but really average coaches. Just like Heyneke Meyer they have squads full of experience and talent. They've under-achieved.
About this squad depth. Unlike during the De Villiers/HM era, it doesn't come from massively successful provincial sides that kept getting to finals, or from a successful/talented Bok team that was there before they were coach. The talented experienced squad, has come from Rassie/Nienaber, which means matches like the second Wales test this year (and your win ratio). This squad isn't something that was given to them.
At Bok level the most important skill is being a man manager, too late to teach players how to throw a ball by then. This is why Peter de Villiers won more than HM, HM's man management of a player like Frans Steyn was shit, he just stopped selecting him, then HM plays a kicking game and HM's selection minus the biggest available boot (Frans Steyn) gets out kicked in a RWC semi against the ABs. If a coach can't manage the players and get the maximum potential out of the most talented players (which is about psychology not instructing them how to throw a ball), then they can't coach at Bok level. They need to know what a talented player is and what they're best position is, then be able to get into that player's head.
If we just take one combination, the back three. The coaches before the Rassie/Nienaber had both coached sides to Super Rugby finals, this is the sort of thing they were selecting for the Boks:
AC:
Skosan/Andries Coetzee/Leyds
HM:
Habana/Kirchner/Bjorn Basson
The only good selection in that little sample is Habana, and he was first selected by Jake White when he was a centre at the Lions and moved to wing by Jake. Players that were available during that time include Pienaar, Le Roux, Frans Steyn, JP. They all didn't always get as much of a look in as other players very few people remember now. Both HM and AC were shithouse Bok coaches and both were our best Super Rugby coaches, they couldn't identify the talent and couldn't manage the players. That is the entire game at Bok level.
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OomStruisbaai
- Posts: 15454
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I struggle to stay awake. 
tl/dr_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:24 pmThe player depth was much greater in the Peter de Villiers and HM period. HM won nothing chief, people kept hammering on about his "win ratio", ignoring he never beat the best teams. The Boks have beaten the ABs more in the last 2 seasons than HM did in 4.FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:51 pm I think the Springbok player depth is at a historical high. Except for the flyhalf position. I would say that Erasmus/Nienaber are probably great man managers but really average coaches. Just like Heyneke Meyer they have squads full of experience and talent. They've under-achieved.
About this squad depth. Unlike during the De Villiers/HM era, it doesn't come from massively successful provincial sides that kept getting to finals, or from a successful/talented Bok team that was there before they were coach. The talented experienced squad, has come from Rassie/Nienaber, which means matches like the second Wales test this year (and your win ratio). This squad isn't something that was given to them.
At Bok level the most important skill is being a man manager, too late to teach players how to throw a ball by then. This is why Peter de Villiers won more than HM, HM's man management of a player like Frans Steyn was shit, he just stopped selecting him, then HM plays a kicking game and HM's selection minus the biggest available boot (Frans Steyn) gets out kicked in a RWC semi against the ABs. If a coach can't manage the players and get the maximum potential out of the most talented players (which is about psychology not instructing them how to throw a ball), then they can't coach at Bok level. They need to know what a talented player is and what they're best position is, then be able to get into that player's head.
If we just take one combination, the back three. The coaches before the Rassie/Nienaber had both coached sides to Super Rugby finals, this is the sort of thing they were selecting for the Boks:
AC:
Skosan/Andries Coetzee/Leyds
HM:
Habana/Kirchner/Bjorn Basson
The only good selection in that little sample is Habana, and he was first selected by Jake White when he was a centre at the Lions and moved to wing by Jake. Players that were available during that time include Pienaar, Le Roux, Frans Steyn, JP. They all didn't always get as much of a look in as other players very few people remember now. Both HM and AC were shithouse Bok coaches and both were our best Super Rugby coaches, they couldn't identify the talent and couldn't manage the players. That is the entire game at Bok level.
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fishfoodie
- Posts: 8223
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 pm
This is the game to turn off the comms, & just listen to the stadium, & Barnes
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sockwithaticket
- Posts: 8664
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am
How does De Allende escape sanction? He also came flying in and made head to head contact.
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TheNatalShark
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:35 pm
Its a good thing about Prime that it is so easy to do this, thanks for the reminder.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:09 pm This is the game to turn off the comms, & just listen to the stadium, & Barnes
Just so much dumb about those phases of play from SA they deserved a card for stupidity. Somewhat fitting.
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boere wors
- Posts: 1450
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:03 am
Agree on the red, but in fairness he was shoved into it
Bollocks deliberate contact utter thug.
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boere wors
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