The Official English Rugby Thread

[sockwithaticket]

So the game is, who from that squad stand a chance of making the World Cup squad proper.

I'd say these lot are certs:
Genge
Dombrandt
Sinckler
Stuart
Lawrence
Smith

These are likely:
Marler
Arundell
Walker
Care
Blamire*
Walker*

*Depends on LCD's availability.

I'd have Mercer over Dombrandt and reckon Theo Dan will get the nod over Jack Walker as third hooker as you say subject tp LCD's fitness.
Evidently Sam Simmonds declined his invitation to join the training group so will definitel;y not be in the final RWC squad

Definitely potential bolters, but I can see Borthwick giving the edge to guys who've already been in the squad given how little time he's had to prep and coach the team.

[JM2K6]

Mercer can also play 7 in a pinch so I think he's got a great shot at making the squad.

[Kawazaki]

So the game is, who from that squad stand a chance of making the World Cup squad proper.

I'd say these lot are certs:
Genge
Dombrandt
Sinckler
Stuart
Lawrence
Smith

These are likely:
Marler
Arundell
Walker
Care
Blamire*
Walker*

*Depends on LCD's availability.

He'll only take 2x flyhalfs and I reckon Smith is the third wheel now.
Dombrandt has just not played well for England. Mercer could nudge him out. Surprised Tom Willis isn't in this prelim squad as well.

Edit: just seen Ewels in there. FFS.

[SaintK]

So the game is, who from that squad stand a chance of making the World Cup squad proper.

I'd say these lot are certs:
Genge
Dombrandt
Sinckler
Stuart
Lawrence
Smith

These are likely:
Marler
Arundell
Walker
Care
Blamire*
Walker*

*Depends on LCD's availability.

He'll only take 2x flyhalfs and I reckon Smith is the third wheel now.
Dombrandt has just not played well for England. Mercer could nudge him out. Surprised Tom Willis isn't in this prelim squad as well.

Edit: just seen Ewels in there. FFS.

Willis has been stood down from the initial training squad as he was still playing for Toulouse last week
Same applies to the England players from the four teams that reached the Prem semi finals

[Happyhooker]

So the game is, who from that squad stand a chance of making the World Cup squad proper.

I'd say these lot are certs:
Genge
Dombrandt
Sinckler
Stuart
Lawrence
Smith

These are likely:
Marler
Arundell
Walker
Care
Blamire*
Walker*

*Depends on LCD's availability.

He'll only take 2x flyhalfs and I reckon Smith is the third wheel now.
Dombrandt has just not played well for England. Mercer could nudge him out. Surprised Tom Willis isn't in this prelim squad as well.

Edit: just seen Ewels in there. FFS.

Didn't he play 3 days ago? (T Willis)

[sockwithaticket]

So the game is, who from that squad stand a chance of making the World Cup squad proper.

I'd say these lot are certs:
Genge
Dombrandt
Sinckler
Stuart
Lawrence
Smith

These are likely:
Marler
Arundell
Walker
Care
Blamire*
Walker*

*Depends on LCD's availability.

He'll only take 2x flyhalfs and I reckon Smith is the third wheel now.
Dombrandt has just not played well for England. Mercer could nudge him out. Surprised Tom Willis isn't in this prelim squad as well.

Edit: just seen Ewels in there. FFS.

Final squads are 33 for this tournament. I predict that for a lot of teams that'll mean taking a 3rd fly half and 3 of each prop rather than trying to coast with one who can play both sides (sort of, but not reall, because these days most props don't get significant game time at both loose and tighthead).

T. Willis played for Bordeaux on Saturday, so if Prem semi-finalists are currently stood down, it makes sense that he would be too. Hopefully he comes in later as Dombrandt hasn't been convincing. I just have a feeling he's still going to the big show.

[JM2K6]

Dombrandt's had a couple of good games, a couple of mixed ones, a poor one, and a bunch of cameos. Not really unexpected for a guy who's making his way in international rugby but he was also forcing it too much and that kept happening for a few matches on his return from England. Just needs to chill a bit rather than trying to take every pass at the hardest possible point (and put some more bite into his tackling).

Mercer's French exploits were superb and I'm sure he'll do a great job if selected.

No-one else really put their hands up this season and with a diminished Simmonds turning it down there's a chance they'll both go, with J Willis, Curry, Ludlum all considered decent 8s in a pinch.

With the paucity of tighthead options I was surprised that Collier wasn't picked up but I guess old man Cole is a cert under Borthwick. Hopefully Ewels is out on his arse as soon as the top 4 squads return. You'll probably see both Chessum and Martin before Ewels get in. Where did we end up with Ribbans? He was dropped in the 6N wasn't he?

[Hal Jordan]

I suspect if Launchbury wasn't injured he'd be in there.

[Raggs]

Dombrandt's had a couple of good games, a couple of mixed ones, a poor one, and a bunch of cameos. Not really unexpected for a guy who's making his way in international rugby but he was also forcing it too much and that kept happening for a few matches on his return from England. Just needs to chill a bit rather than trying to take every pass at the hardest possible point (and put some more bite into his tackling).

Mercer's French exploits were superb and I'm sure he'll do a great job if selected.

No-one else really put their hands up this season and with a diminished Simmonds turning it down there's a chance they'll both go, with J Willis, Curry, Ludlum all considered decent 8s in a pinch.

With the paucity of tighthead options I was surprised that Collier wasn't picked up but I guess old man Cole is a cert under Borthwick. Hopefully Ewels is out on his arse as soon as the top 4 squads return. You'll probably see both Chessum and Martin before Ewels get in. Where did we end up with Ribbans? He was dropped in the 6N wasn't he?

Tom Willis has been beating more defenders per 80 minutes that Mercer. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the squad, especially now with the Sarries link.

[JM2K6]

Dombrandt's had a couple of good games, a couple of mixed ones, a poor one, and a bunch of cameos. Not really unexpected for a guy who's making his way in international rugby but he was also forcing it too much and that kept happening for a few matches on his return from England. Just needs to chill a bit rather than trying to take every pass at the hardest possible point (and put some more bite into his tackling).

Mercer's French exploits were superb and I'm sure he'll do a great job if selected.

No-one else really put their hands up this season and with a diminished Simmonds turning it down there's a chance they'll both go, with J Willis, Curry, Ludlum all considered decent 8s in a pinch.

With the paucity of tighthead options I was surprised that Collier wasn't picked up but I guess old man Cole is a cert under Borthwick. Hopefully Ewels is out on his arse as soon as the top 4 squads return. You'll probably see both Chessum and Martin before Ewels get in. Where did we end up with Ribbans? He was dropped in the 6N wasn't he?

Tom Willis has been beating more defenders per 80 minutes that Mercer. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the squad, especially now with the Sarries link.

Yup, he's an excellent player - Mercer has the advantage of being around the England squad before and starring in the glamour competition, but Willis is an absolute tank. I think it's probably a punt too far for this world cup, but he'll be in the argument after that.

[Kawazaki]

How many of these England players can you name?

[Tichtheid]

I got five forwards and two backs. I also got two of the subs, but mistook the guy second from our right, back row, it's not Mike Teague

[duke]

How many of these England players can you name?

Got the lot bar 2 subs on the right hand side, now trying to work out what game it was

[Kawazaki]

I can get most of them but recognise some faces but I can't remember the name.

Starting FR: Pierce/Brain/Chilcott
SR: Dooley/Bainbridge
BR: ? Recognise his face?/Winterbottom/Richards
HB: ?Youngs?/Andrew
Centres: ? No idea?/Clough
Wings: Harrison/Underwood
FB: ?O'Neil?

Subs (L to R): Hill/Barnes/??/??/??/Rendall

[duke]

I can get most of them but recognise some faces but I can't remember the name.

Starting FR: Pierce/Brain/Chilcott
SR: Dooley/Bainbridge
BR: ? Recognise his face?/Winterbottom/Richards
HB: ?Youngs?/Andrew
Centres: ? No idea?/Clough
Wings: Harrison/Underwood
FB: ?O'Neil?

Subs (L to R): Hill/Barnes/??/??/??/Rendall

Colclough with Dooley in the 2nd row, Gary Rees in the back row, Nigel Melville as scrum half and captain, Kevin Simms in the centre, Huw Davies at fullback. The sub next to Hill and Barnes is John Palmer. Still can't get the other 2 subs. One might be Steve Mills (Glos hooker)

[Tichtheid]

Richard Hill, Stuart Barnes, John Palmer, Peter Cook, Andy Simpson and Paul Rendal

I got Barnes and Rendall, couldn't for the life of me remember Hill's name but I recognised him.

[Kawazaki]

After a bit of detective work, I can reveal that the England team photo was taken on 1st March 1986 in a 5Ns match at Twickenham against Ireland;

http://en.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/match/21837.html

England

15 FB
Huw Davies
14 W
Mike Harrison
13 C
Kevin Simms
12 C
Fran Clough
11 W
Rory Underwood
10 FH
Rob Andrew
9 SH
Nigel Melville (c)
1 P
Gareth Chilcott
2 H
Steve Brain
3 P
Gary Pearce
4 L
Wade Dooley
5 L
Maurice Colclough
6 F
Peter Winterbottom
7 F
Gary Rees
8 N8
Dean Richards
Replacements
16 C
John Palmer
18
Stuart Barnes
19
Richard Hill
20
Paul Rendall
21
Andy Simpson
22
Peter Cook

Ireland Team
15 FB
Hugo MacNeill
14 W
Trevor Ringland
13 C
Brendan Mullin
12 C
Michael Kiernan
11 W
Keith Crossan
10 FH
Ralph Keyes
9 SH
Michael Bradley
1 P
Paul Kennedy
2 H
Ciaran Fitzgerald (c)
3 P
Des Fitzgerald
4 L
Brian McCall
5 L
Donal Lenihan
6 F
Robert Morrow
7 F
Nigel Carr
8 N8
Brian Spillane
Replacements
16
JJ McCoy
17
Harry Harbison
18
Willie Anderson
19
Rab Brady
20
Tony Ward
21
Philip Rainey

[sockwithaticket]

With all the discourse around London Irish and the RFU I caught a couple of mentions about the RFU's losses this season and next. Maybe we covered it a month and a half a go in the thread and I missed it, but the following is new to me after some googling:

The Rugby Paper can reveal exclusively that the report, compiled by RFU chief financial officer, Sue Day, has forecast a massive loss of over £40m in the 2023-24 financial year. It also currently predicts a loss of almost £7m for 2022-23, although it will probably be in excess of £10m because the RFU will have to pay around £5m to the Compass Group for its 45 per cent corporate hospitality shareholding at Twickenham.

Day had flagged in the last RFU two annual reports in 2021 and 2022 that the RFU faces difficult financial challenges.

These have increased following a Sweeney-led negotiation with CVC. Although this netted the RFU a £90.8m one-off payment in 2021 from the private equity company in return for 14.3 per cent of its Six Nations commercial revenue annually, the RFU is now feeling the monetary squeeze of that deal.

More in the link

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/dom ... bombshell/

What the fuck are the blazers actually good for?

[Paddington Bear]

Have to respect CVC, easiest millions they ever made was waving a cheque and some powerpoint slides and some blokes in suits who think they’re corporate big wigs

[Niegs]

The extra million or so to the women's team was found down the back of the sofa during spring cleaning, though, so all good there.

[Kawazaki]

Have to respect CVC, easiest millions they ever made was waving a cheque and some powerpoint slides and some blokes in suits who think they’re corporate big wigs

I suspect Bill Sweeney is praying that the Saudi Arabian PIF fund takes an interest in rugby to sportswash next and offers to buy the RFU.

[Kawazaki]

https://archive.ph/4apYJ

Dallaglio

[fishfoodie]

https://archive.ph/4apYJ

Dallaglio

Sportsman
Coke
Hookers
Unpaid Tax

HOUSE !!

[Margin__Walker]

Saints are first out of the blocks on the LI players, signing Munga, Haffar and Pearson. The latter will get the headlines, but Haffar is one I'd watch out for. Only 21, but was keeping guys like Goodrick-Clark and Gigena out of the match day 23 in the second half of the season. Freakishly athletic for a prop and hasn't been embarrassed at set piece so far.

[Oxbow]

Fantastic signing (plus two possible very good ones), but I genuinely wish they all still had the chance to turn out for the Exiles.

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, it'll be really odd seeing them all scattered to the wind. Hopefully as many as possible get gigs somewhere, although there will no doubt be a few squad and academy guys for which this spells the end for them in pro rugby.

Clutching at straws, but you'll probably end up with higher quality squads with 13 going into 10. Also less need for a reliance on journeyman imports.

[Tichtheid]

'scuse the Scottish slant on this, do you think Ben White will pick up a gig somewhere?

I fear for Kyle Rowe, he was more than worth his place on the Scotland tour last summer but he hasn't played since due to injury

[Margin__Walker]

'scuse the Scottish slant on this, do you think Ben White will pick up a gig somewhere?

I fear for Kyle Rowe, he was more than worth his place on the Scotland tour last summer but he hasn't played since due to injury

No need to excuse any slant.

White definitely will. Assume the SRU would want to bring him North and have heard things to that effect. We'll see though. A big part of his reasoning to move down to LI in the first place was to live with his partner (Jodie Burrage) who's a tennis pro based in London. Think he'd probably take a contract at Sarries or Quins if one were available. That's a long shot though so expect he'll end up in Scotland.

Rowe really needs someone to take a chance on him. He's got such an good upside and the injury and LI's collapse has been really badly timed for him. He's definitely fit again as he was involved in training (and an unpublised friendly against Leinster A) before the season end and have seen him taking part in the off-season camp being run at Hazelwood for a bunch of the guys last week.

[Tichtheid]

'scuse the Scottish slant on this, do you think Ben White will pick up a gig somewhere?

I fear for Kyle Rowe, he was more than worth his place on the Scotland tour last summer but he hasn't played since due to injury

No need to excuse any slant.

White definitely will. Assume the SRU would want to bring him North and have heard things to that effect. We'll see though. A big part of his reasoning to move down to LI in the first place was to live with his partner (Jodie Burrage) who's a tennis pro based in London. Think he'd probably take a contract at Sarries or Quins if one were available. That's a long shot though so expect he'll end up in Scotland.

Rowe really needs someone to take a chance on him. He's got such an good upside and the injury and LI's collapse has been really badly timed for him. He's definitely fit again as he was involved in training (and an unpublised friendly against Leinster A) before the season end and have seen him taking part in the off-season camp being run at Hazelwood for a bunch of the guys last week.

On White, I'd love to see him come to Edinburgh where he'd walk into the starting scrum half jersey, but we've just signed Scott Steele from 'Quins, plus we took on Duhan on a big wedge - the upshot of which is that we've had to let some academy guys and a couple of first team squad players go. There's also the issue of where Rory Sutherland plays next year, he went to Ulster for the remainder of the season after Wuss went for a Burton.
The ripples from the premiership are being felt further than just the premiership.

I agree on Rowe, I hope he gets a contract somewhere, I don't think we could take him back at Edinburgh, Glasgow could be an option though

edit, sorry I skim read your post and missed the bit about Jodie Burrage, I actually read an article the other day where White said that because she is on the tour she is very often away from home

[Kawazaki]

Saints are first out of the blocks on the LI players, signing Munga, Haffar and Pearson. The latter will get the headlines, but Haffar is one I'd watch out for. Only 21, but was keeping guys like Goodrick-Clark and Gigena out of the match day 23 in the second half of the season. Freakishly athletic for a prop and hasn't been embarrassed at set piece so far.

Who was the Saints player who was leaving to join London Irish? He must be a tad pissed off.

Also, expect Quins fans to accuse Northampton of cheating.

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, the market's definitely contracting and you're going to be seeing players that would previously have easily picked up contracts struggling. Imagine there's far fewer slots available now in prem squads for Scottish players.

[Margin__Walker]

Saints are first out of the blocks on the LI players, signing Munga, Haffar and Pearson. The latter will get the headlines, but Haffar is one I'd watch out for. Only 21, but was keeping guys like Goodrick-Clark and Gigena out of the match day 23 in the second half of the season. Freakishly athletic for a prop and hasn't been embarrassed at set piece so far.

Who was the Saints player who was leaving to join London Irish? He must be a tad pissed off.

Also, expect Quins fans to accuse Northampton of cheating.

Tom Collins. Exceptionally bad timing.

[Oxbow]

Saints are first out of the blocks on the LI players, signing Munga, Haffar and Pearson. The latter will get the headlines, but Haffar is one I'd watch out for. Only 21, but was keeping guys like Goodrick-Clark and Gigena out of the match day 23 in the second half of the season. Freakishly athletic for a prop and hasn't been embarrassed at set piece so far.

Who was the Saints player who was leaving to join London Irish? He must be a tad pissed off.

Also, expect Quins fans to accuse Northampton of cheating.

Tom Collins. Word is he might end up at Bedford and still have a connection to Saints.

[Kawazaki]

Saints are first out of the blocks on the LI players, signing Munga, Haffar and Pearson. The latter will get the headlines, but Haffar is one I'd watch out for. Only 21, but was keeping guys like Goodrick-Clark and Gigena out of the match day 23 in the second half of the season. Freakishly athletic for a prop and hasn't been embarrassed at set piece so far.

Who was the Saints player who was leaving to join London Irish? He must be a tad pissed off.

Also, expect Quins fans to accuse Northampton of cheating.

Tom Collins. Exceptionally bad timing.

Good player as well. Is he getting on a bit now?

[Margin__Walker]

Just about to turn 29. Still decent, but it's a buyer's market. Hopefully he gets picked up

[Oxbow]

Still looks as quick as he always has, a very good club player. I'm quietly hoping that Saints take him back, was sad to see him leave in the first place.

[Margin__Walker]

French press reporting Arundell to Racing as a done deal.

Will be interesting to see what they exemption situation (if any) is for next season

[sockwithaticket]

Saints are first out of the blocks on the LI players, signing Munga, Haffar and Pearson. The latter will get the headlines, but Haffar is one I'd watch out for. Only 21, but was keeping guys like Goodrick-Clark and Gigena out of the match day 23 in the second half of the season. Freakishly athletic for a prop and hasn't been embarrassed at set piece so far.

Who was the Saints player who was leaving to join London Irish? He must be a tad pissed off.

Also, expect Quins fans to accuse Northampton of cheating.

Tom Collins. Word is he might end up at Bedford and still have a connection to Saints.

A real shame for him because he's, frankly, much better than Championship level. Unfortunately, wing is a position that's never short of a few quick young fellas who can be picked up for relatively little money and the saving offsets whatever on field benefits you might get from a more experienced winger most of the time.

[sockwithaticket]

French press reporting Arundell to Racing as a done deal.

Will be interesting to see what they exemption situation (if any) is for next season

Wasps and Worcester players got the rest of 22/23 as an exemption, presume Irish players would get the same for 23/24.

[Margin__Walker]

French press reporting Arundell to Racing as a done deal.

Will be interesting to see what they exemption situation (if any) is for next season

Wasps and Worcester players got the rest of 22/23 as an exemption, presume Irish players would get the same for 23/24.

You'd presume, but the RFU have been silent so far.

Could take the view that it was different as the season had started already and LI players in England contention have more to time to arrange premiership deals (despite a still challenging market where offers will be supressed in value as a result of clubs being close to the cap)

But, yeah. More likely than not he gets dispensation for a year.